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I just went 0-10 on iCCup today so now I am D-
I've been told that if I execute a build order correctly at this level that I should have no problem staying at D/D+. I guess that is not the case or my macro and mechanics are just horrible.
I've been focusing on PvP and I expand but then I usually get contained or stormed to death. I've been going 1 gate to reavers and I expand after I get a reaver but it seems like my opponent always has more goons then me or better goon positioning. I defend from the first attack but then I just get run over. Someone knowledgeable should go write in Liquipedia about positioning.
Anyways I hope you enjoyed my useless rambling.
Edit: Here are some replays for the people who requested them.
This two here are of standard play:
http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=14618 http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=14615
This is one were I got contained pretty effectively. I might steal this and see if it works.
http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=14614
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PvP is too much about adaptation and scouting/timing feel for a complete, precise BO to work blindly everytime
At least that's my impression, I'm Terran and I don't really play PvP
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anyway blame it on how imba the ranks are this early in the season(:
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On June 13 2009 10:06 minus_human wrote: anyway blame it on how imba the ranks are this early in the season(:
lol if I only I could but its been about two week nows
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My last 10 matches or so have been against C- to B- (previous seasons/asking in game), at the D level.
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Clearly Protoss is imba ~_~
Change your build orders up, experiment different shit. Having good mid game macro after a 1 gate reaver expo is pretty difficult imo. Gotta know when to add more and more gates while macroing goons and teching to speedlegs and templar. If you do it out of whack/other guy does it better than you then you're behind. If you wait for reaver to expo when you don't need to (say destination) then your FE build can get expoed on faster and you still fall behind. In short, many things could be going wrong / maybe you just not good with that particular flow. Try doing dt > storm expo and see how your macro feels with that kind of opener.
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United States24354 Posts
One important thing I learned about pvp is that you never decide for sure what your expo timing will be ahead of time. You have to do it based on what you are seeing from your opponent. There are probably exceptions, but that was a rule I used.
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Don't worry, we all have shitty days.
Just stop thinking about it and play the next day :D
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Can you post some replays? Maybe someone from here can give you exact tips and whatnot. My own advice to you in PvP it's pretty much all up to your scouting. You don't want to expo first usually just because if they can time it right, you're going to get run over by units. Unless you got an advantage early on in the game (like you took out 2 of his Goons while you lost none yourself) then I would say you can expand first.
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"I've been told that if I execute a build order correctly at this level that I should have no problem staying at D/D+."
People who say that are either arrogant or don't play much ICCUP. D level is swarming with 200-400 APM players and some posters have perhaps forgotten how many skills you need to practice to improve so trivialize it.
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United States11637 Posts
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On June 13 2009 10:32 ix wrote: "I've been told that if I execute a build order correctly at this level that I should have no problem staying at D/D+."
People who say that are either arrogant or don't play much ICCUP. D level is swarming with 200-400 APM players and some posters have perhaps forgotten how many skills you need to practice to improve so trivialize it.
Lol 200-400 is a little bit of an exaggeration (especially the 400 part, unless they are really bad and just holding down 11111111111111111111 while doing nothing else, in which case they look like 50 apm players) but ya that execute a build order shit is pretty incorrect. If they mean execute a winning build order based off of the scouting and adapting you've done throughout the game then sure, but thats ageneral rule for all levels.
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Stop thinking too much, only concentrate on making lots of (basic) units. Now, attack and pay attention to your micro. Oh shiT! don't forget to keep making those units...
Watch the replays of your losses. With time and experience, you'll learn how and when to get "all the other things" (like obs/cannons to prevent dts, expansions, upgrades etc)
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Dude I just lost on a US west obs game to an awful player, shit happens. Either put it behind you or learn from it!
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PvP is really hard if your mechanics are poor.... you basically need to macro and micro as well as your opponent if you want to have a chance, unless you go for cheesy play.
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maybe you should try standard build orders? -_-
(hint: 1gate reavers is not the way to go)
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I added replays for the people who wanted them. They are in the first post.
On June 13 2009 10:54 Piste wrote: maybe you should try standard build orders? -_-
(hint: 1gate reavers is not the way to go)
If you are going to say something like this expand on it, dont say I've been doing everything wrong and not tell me why.
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16927 Posts
If you're trying to play straight up PvP, you'll want some sort of 2 gate goon build into reavers for your expansion.
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My advice to you is to CHEESE! Cheese your way thru the D- rank and possibly D and while your doing that just learn other strats/bos (practice with your friend, melee) and once your secured safe D rank start experimenting with those strats you've learned while you were cheesing
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You just need to identify your problems and adjust.
You say that you go 1 Gate Robo into Reavers and expand, and then say that sometimes when you lose, it's just cause he has more Goons than you do. So what should you do to fix that? Well, in this case you should adjust your build order. Try going 2 Gate Robo rather than 1 Gate, and see how your Goon count matches up against your opponents this way.
This is one of the many ways to improve in Starcraft; identifying the flaws of your gameplay and coming up with solutions.
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On June 13 2009 11:05 IceCube wrote: My advice to you is to CHEESE! Cheese your way thru the D- rank and possibly D and while your doing that just learn other strats/bos (practice with your friend, melee) and once your secured safe D rank start experimenting with those strats you've learned while you were cheesing
Cheese is fail...so many D-/D/D+ players cheese it's just ridiculous.. go like 2 gate opener into reavers
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I cant watch the replays right now but try focusing on a more solid build... dont incorporate reavers into your build until you're solid with macro/micro.
Just my suggestion.
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Miniroman: no exaggeration at all if the Koreans come online when you play.
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im not a C, but i think you are being swarmed because the lack of gateways I agree with Empyrean
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On June 13 2009 11:20 HuskyTheHusky wrote: I cant watch the replays right now but try focusing on a more solid build... dont incorporate reavers into your build until you're solid with macro/micro.
Just my suggestion.
Yeah, basically what I said too. Keep it really basic and just focus on getting many units out and keep pumping probes/army constantly, not forgeting pylons etc. You may think you're ok with it, but if you focus on just that, you'll be surprised it's not as easy as it sounds.
Slowly add more variance to your play. D- means you have to get those very basic things down first, then start worrying about everything else. Learn to micro your army first, then worry about shuttles and reavers.
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On June 13 2009 11:05 IceCube wrote: My advice to you is to CHEESE! Cheese your way thru the D- rank and possibly D and while your doing that just learn other strats/bos (practice with your friend, melee) and once your secured safe D rank start experimenting with those strats you've learned while you were cheesing
Or you could /clearstats YES to get back 1000(D).
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On June 13 2009 11:40 nbtnbt5 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2009 11:05 IceCube wrote: My advice to you is to CHEESE! Cheese your way thru the D- rank and possibly D and while your doing that just learn other strats/bos (practice with your friend, melee) and once your secured safe D rank start experimenting with those strats you've learned while you were cheesing Or you could /clearstats YES to get back 1000(D). Clearing stats to gain points... That's something I can safely say I've never experienced. I've heard horror stories from the "Ladder D-" channel on iccup too. I've tried to go there even when your D ranked it doesn't allow you...
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I tend to think that being aggressive and not caring too much about builds will get you at least to D+, if you can move your wrists with any decent speed/accuracy. Try reducing your mouse sensitivity - then you can get more accurate movements in.
Remember, micro isn't in spamming, micro is in positioning - which means accuracy first, speed and everything else - 2nd.
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Loosing on iCCup sucks, losing on B.Net REALLY fucking sucks.
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a good sexy build order i like doing is 3 gate robo. its macro heavy for the goons, u get an expo a whole minute earlier than the 4 gate variation, u can spot incoming reavers, and u'll be prepared for a dt rush (unless they cheesed but u'll determine that with scouting). all in all, its a pretty nice BO. here's the link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=88846
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Well the good news is you can probably start dominating people at the D- rank to get back up to D. I agree with what other people say about PvP, at the D level you really should just go 2 Gate goon and then into a higher tech.
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I win 15 straight then lose 15 straight. So weird.
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2gate goon into reavers then expo is the way to go.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
A pvp problem I had was not getting upgrades. Trust me, that 1+ attack will help so much its unbelievable.
Edit :
On June 13 2009 13:10 da_head wrote:a good sexy build order i like doing is 3 gate robo. its macro heavy for the goons, u get an expo a whole minute earlier than the 4 gate variation, u can spot incoming reavers, and u'll be prepared for a dt rush (unless they cheesed but u'll determine that with scouting). all in all, its a pretty nice BO. here's the link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=88846
this. Ive done this so much I swear to god I can get to probably C just doing this every single pvp.
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On June 13 2009 10:03 Flow.of.soul wrote:
I've been focusing on PvP and I expand but then I usually get contained or stormed to death. I've been going 1 gate to reavers and I expand after I get a reaver but it seems like my opponent always has more goons then me or better goon positioning. I defend from the first attack but then I just get run over. Someone knowledgeable should go write in Liquipedia about positioning.
lol wtf don't go 1 gate reaver AND THEN EXPAND seriously of course they have more goons than you. try playing safer with 2 gate reaver builds and if you expand be very careful about it. I personally play pvp hardly expanding at all. I just power units off 1 base and wait for them to expand well of course unless im almost mined out or something. deception is awesome in pvp, try to keep your ramped walled with 1 probe+1 zealot, 100% they will go quick obs which will buy you time to get your expo or reavers going.
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This is how i play PvP ... After first pylon i scout and see if the opponent is going 2gate or 1gate+gas, if he is going 2 gates i go too, if not i just continue climbing my tech tree and thats usually: gate gas cyber gate robo observer reaver and the push and while pushing i also expand
you just need to practice ... when i was D- (im D now ) the best suggestion i got was that to just copy what my opponent is doing, that helped me a great deal ... hf
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Hold your head up high. I'm huge respect for people who lose a lot and still continue to play. I'm C- now 50-56 playing only koreans and I'm in fucking rage-_-;
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I feel ya, i'm 1-4 today, feels awful
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lol and it appears you were playing on the non-korean hours too o.o
just keep at it!
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It ok dude, relax, and have fun, and I feel yah..
I lost to a D- zerg today, despite being C- last season ~_~
We all have shitty days. but you know what "practice makes perfect"
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PvP is very micro-dependent...little clutch goon cyclings can really tip the game.
Just work on solidifying your macro, but micro is still very important.
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I only watched one of you replays (the one against Carlitoz), in this game you went 1 gate Robo and your opponent went 2 gate. Your first mistake was your scout which you sent out a little to late and didn't keep alive for as long as he did which gave him a slight advantage. For the next 5-7.5 mins you played okay. The only problem was that when you one a battle decisively you just stayed in your base instead of applying pressure. Also you did no harassment with your early reavers nor did you use them in the first few battles. Another mistake that i noticed is he had 7 gates and you had 5 gates and you both had 3 bases. Obviously this allowed him to get more units than you had in the end. Also he had high templar and you did not. In my opinion high templar are th best unit in PvP because you can use them for both storming probes and storming in battle then morphing to archon. A good storm can kill/heavily damage 2-5 units and then the archon can kill another 1 or 2 after that.
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Shouldn't rely on BO wins. That's like asking to win in like the first 3 moves in chess. You have to be able to play the extended game.
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Some of you man find this story entertaining but it does not warrant its own thread so I'm posting it here.
I just completely threw away a game by accident because I thought I moved my army to my opponents base but really i moved it back to my base. I had taken out his proxy gateways and all i had to do was 1a2a3a and I would have won but then I got DT droped. I microed to the best of my ability with whatever I had because I knew my opponents base was toast and his DT drop was his useless attempt at a win. I am about to kill the DTs and I glance at the mini map and see that my dragoons are gone so i thought i died to some DT and goon combo. I gg and exit the game since he took out way too many of my probes. I watch the replay and see that I had about 10 dragoons that I could have easy used to kill the DTs but I thought they were buildings on the mini map. Man did that suck but I then played a game where I starved out a player that was D+ last season so that mad up for it :D
Replay: http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=14680
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