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It's not an outright scam; it's just completely ridiculous and shady.
Don't do this. No one is going to buy knives from a door to door salesman...no one would buy ANYTHING from a door to door salesman nowadays.
You can make money off of this just like you can hypothetically make money off of a pyramid scheme. That's why companies like these aren't shut down immediately. At first glance, they're not outright ripoffs or perhaps even unethical. Once you take a closer look, though, you'll find that the principle behind what they're doing is veeeery suspect.
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I would call this a legal scam. Only a few will come out with a good profit but most will only get little or be losing money. As mentioned before, it depends on a person's motivation, personally, and luck.
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The webcomic Krakow had a pretty funny Scalar Marketing arc. If Vector is anything like what Krakow insinuated, I'd stay far away.
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I just interviewed with them last tuesday and got offered a position. I checked into it and asked all around about vector. I called them up yesterday and refused their offer.
It's not a "scam," per say, but just a big pyramid scheme. The knives aren't worth anything close to what people are selling them for, which is why you can get up to 30% as commission. Some people really do make the big bucks, and it is a "legitimately" run business. There are numerous complaints about the company and their ethics all over the US.
The reason they market to college students, specifically ones that have never had a job before, is because they don't have the red flags go off that people experienced with working do. The initial $145 is a deposit, though--you can get your money back if you choose not to keep the knives and you didn't resell them.
Basically, if you're a good salesmen you WILL make money in this job. Its morally dubious and all-over kinda seedy, though.
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ps fontong you live in the STL area? If you do then I interviewed with your gf if she came in on tuesday.
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LOL! This is such a pyramid scam like Usana. What is funny is that a guy was passing out papers of this on my high school graduation. I remember receiving my diploma and walking to the football bleachers to see my family and friends and some jackass in a gray collar shirt came out of no where and gave me an envelope and said "this will be a great summer and college job for you!".
I opened the envelope about a week later and I thought this would be a great job because of the whole "$15 an hour" in bold print. I researched on the net until I saw all the negative things about it. I even remembered about a year ago when I was looking for a job, my brother told me to stay away from Vector because they sell knives and I'm better off working at places like Wal-Mart.
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Thanks for the input everyone. Sounds like I should advise her not to do it.
On May 30 2009 17:14 KurtistheTurtle wrote: ps fontong you live in the STL area? If you do then I interviewed with your gf if she came in on tuesday. No, I'm in San Diego.
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The potential for profit is there. But Cutco's advertising is extremely misleading and ambiguous. Since it's an independent contract, Cutco is not obligated to pay you the minimum wage. How much you make depends on your performance. For every individual who makes a good chunk of money, there are ten others who barely break even after calculating transportation costs.
I don't recommend Vector Marketing for anyone. The only people who will succeed are aggressive hustlers and if you're one of those, there are other jobs that are more profitable and suitable for you.
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Woa I got to put a stop to all this bullshit people are saying. You people don't now anything. Vector is an amazing company. I worked with them on and off for over a year. I eventually sold over $8,000 in personal sales largely to people I didn't know.
This is and isn't a tough job. First, off it isn't door to door. You call people and ask if they're interested in doing an appointment. Secondly, you don't just call random people you call the friends of people you last did the demo for. Thirdly, those people recommended their friends and often call them just to ask permission if it is okay if you call. Word of mouth is the best form of advertising. People listen to their friends advise. You don't have to be pushy at all.
Now the thing is that this job requires discipline, and the willingness to generate your own business. I was a pretty shy computer nerd and by the time I finished I could sell your mom knives at about a 66% success rate. The hardest part is getting over your nerves and calling people and asking. That's it.
As for doing the demonstrations those are fun. You go over take out your kit and go over the knife details and start cutting up vegetables. Mom's love this stuff. Its soo easy to sell.
Now as for the quality of knives. They certainly do cost more than their materials if you hand made one but all of the knives of similar quality you can buy in stores are still more expensive. They're made from high carbon stainless steel. 440A is the type of steel if you want to know.
The one of the most important features for cutco isn't the knives themselves but the warranty. They call it the forever guarantee. Basically, whenever your knives need sharpening or break you can send them back to the factory and get it sharpened or replaced for free. You pay for shipping one way. They'll even replace something for half price if you break something through misuse/abuse ( though you don't have to mention how it broke if you don't want to)
Yeah so the pay is kind of rough at the beginning but when I finished I made 25% commission and when I sold consistently that was pretty good. It gets better too if you sell more. Its based on career sales so it doesn't go down every month to some base rate like some other direct sales companies I've heard about.
Anyway, the key to this job is a little bit of self discipline and the ability to talk to other people. Its really not too tough. The $9 an hour job I've got right now makes me want to try vector again. $13-16 dollars an appointment doesn't really matter much since your commission usually is way bigger btw.
Oh yeah for those that sell well you often get offered assistant manager positions and eventually they will even sponsor you to open up your own office in other towns. This company kicks ass but you've got to be self starter basically. I quit because of other positions I got offered in my future field of work (which sadly ended recently)
Edit: Wow I just took a look at that spamlaws link. Its so biased. You don't have to buy your basic kit. You have to put down a deposit, a check which they will hold, and if you want to you can buy it. You can get it back if you bring the kit back to the office. There are additional kits with specialty knives which you can buy.
gah I sound totally overzealous but man so much misinformation in this thread.
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I get their stupid letter every year. I throw it away every year.
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I saw the knives myself and the ones I saw are very good o_O One could make a mark on a peach without using any force, and i've seen their scissors cut through pennies.
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I applied for Vector marketing two weeks ago when looking for work on job posting sites. I thought the name "vector marketing" sounded stupid and it seemed really suspicious how they didn't say what kind of work it was. If you google "vector marketing scam" you'll find plenty of pages. Even if some are inaccurate, the sheer number of them is enough to turn anyone away.
After I decided, "fuck it, I'm not gonna bother with this". They kept sending me emails (at least 3) notifying me about an interview (real workplaces just send you one if they're still hiring). They called me twice and when I asked what they did, I only got a vague answer along the lines of selling stuff to customers.
On May 30 2009 19:35 Hath wrote: blah blah blah vector is great blah blah
I might just be a bit skeptical, but I think it's possible vector has people googling "vector marketing scam" and basically spreading BS about how it isn't a scam. Don't insult people's intelligence by trying to convince them you made $8000 selling knives.
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On May 30 2009 19:35 Hath wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Woa I got to put a stop to all this bullshit people are saying. You people don't now anything. Vector is an amazing company. I worked with them on and off for over a year. I eventually sold over $8,000 in personal sales largely to people I didn't know.
This is and isn't a tough job. First, off it isn't door to door. You call people and ask if they're interested in doing an appointment. Secondly, you don't just call random people you call the friends of people you last did the demo for. Thirdly, those people recommended their friends and often call them just to ask permission if it is okay if you call. Word of mouth is the best form of advertising. People listen to their friends advise. You don't have to be pushy at all.
Now the thing is that this job requires discipline, and the willingness to generate your own business. I was a pretty shy computer nerd and by the time I finished I could sell your mom knives at about a 66% success rate. The hardest part is getting over your nerves and calling people and asking. That's it.
As for doing the demonstrations those are fun. You go over take out your kit and go over the knife details and start cutting up vegetables. Mom's love this stuff. Its soo easy to sell.
Now as for the quality of knives. They certainly do cost more than their materials if you hand made one but all of the knives of similar quality you can buy in stores are still more expensive. They're made from high carbon stainless steel. 440A is the type of steel if you want to know.
The one of the most important features for cutco isn't the knives themselves but the warranty. They call it the forever guarantee. Basically, whenever your knives need sharpening or break you can send them back to the factory and get it sharpened or replaced for free. You pay for shipping one way. They'll even replace something for half price if you break something through misuse/abuse ( though you don't have to mention how it broke if you don't want to)
Yeah so the pay is kind of rough at the beginning but when I finished I made 25% commission and when I sold consistently that was pretty good. It gets better too if you sell more. Its based on career sales so it doesn't go down every month to some base rate like some other direct sales companies I've heard about.
Anyway, the key to this job is a little bit of self discipline and the ability to talk to other people. Its really not too tough. The $9 an hour job I've got right now makes me want to try vector again. $13-16 dollars an appointment doesn't really matter much since your commission usually is way bigger btw.
Oh yeah for those that sell well you often get offered assistant manager positions and eventually they will even sponsor you to open up your own office in other towns. This company kicks ass but you've got to be self starter basically. I quit because of other positions I got offered in my future field of work (which sadly ended recently)
Edit: Wow I just took a look at that spamlaws link. Its so biased. You don't have to buy your basic kit. You have to put down a deposit, a check which they will hold, and if you want to you can buy it. You can get it back if you bring the kit back to the office. There are additional kits with specialty knives which you can buy. gah I sound totally overzealous but man so much misinformation in this thread. LOL. So one positive experience completely negates dozens of negative experiences people have had with the company?
You actually sound like one of the guys who was trying to convince me to do this.
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On May 31 2009 01:37 Mickey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 19:35 Hath wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Woa I got to put a stop to all this bullshit people are saying. You people don't now anything. Vector is an amazing company. I worked with them on and off for over a year. I eventually sold over $8,000 in personal sales largely to people I didn't know.
This is and isn't a tough job. First, off it isn't door to door. You call people and ask if they're interested in doing an appointment. Secondly, you don't just call random people you call the friends of people you last did the demo for. Thirdly, those people recommended their friends and often call them just to ask permission if it is okay if you call. Word of mouth is the best form of advertising. People listen to their friends advise. You don't have to be pushy at all.
Now the thing is that this job requires discipline, and the willingness to generate your own business. I was a pretty shy computer nerd and by the time I finished I could sell your mom knives at about a 66% success rate. The hardest part is getting over your nerves and calling people and asking. That's it.
As for doing the demonstrations those are fun. You go over take out your kit and go over the knife details and start cutting up vegetables. Mom's love this stuff. Its soo easy to sell.
Now as for the quality of knives. They certainly do cost more than their materials if you hand made one but all of the knives of similar quality you can buy in stores are still more expensive. They're made from high carbon stainless steel. 440A is the type of steel if you want to know.
The one of the most important features for cutco isn't the knives themselves but the warranty. They call it the forever guarantee. Basically, whenever your knives need sharpening or break you can send them back to the factory and get it sharpened or replaced for free. You pay for shipping one way. They'll even replace something for half price if you break something through misuse/abuse ( though you don't have to mention how it broke if you don't want to)
Yeah so the pay is kind of rough at the beginning but when I finished I made 25% commission and when I sold consistently that was pretty good. It gets better too if you sell more. Its based on career sales so it doesn't go down every month to some base rate like some other direct sales companies I've heard about.
Anyway, the key to this job is a little bit of self discipline and the ability to talk to other people. Its really not too tough. The $9 an hour job I've got right now makes me want to try vector again. $13-16 dollars an appointment doesn't really matter much since your commission usually is way bigger btw.
Oh yeah for those that sell well you often get offered assistant manager positions and eventually they will even sponsor you to open up your own office in other towns. This company kicks ass but you've got to be self starter basically. I quit because of other positions I got offered in my future field of work (which sadly ended recently)
Edit: Wow I just took a look at that spamlaws link. Its so biased. You don't have to buy your basic kit. You have to put down a deposit, a check which they will hold, and if you want to you can buy it. You can get it back if you bring the kit back to the office. There are additional kits with specialty knives which you can buy. gah I sound totally overzealous but man so much misinformation in this thread. LOL. So one positive experience completely negates dozens of negative experiences people have had with the company? You actually sound like one of the guys who was trying to convince me to do this. But all the people with negative experiences didn't work for the company apparently, while the two people who actually did work for it were the ones posting positive experiences.
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I'm not too fond of this company but one of my good friends is really in to it and makes around 1000 dollars in commission per week
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On May 30 2009 15:16 mikeymoo wrote: I did this last summer. The pay is fine, and I still use the product now lol (best fucking knives ever). The managers can be pushy, but it's okay. Sounds very scammy/pyramid scheme like/false, but I'll assure you that it's legitimate. However, be forewarned that the pay isn't as consistent as they like to convince you it is. Also, if you're Asian, GOOD LUCK because it's way too difficult to sell to bother. Everyone who speaks basic English and applies gets the job. In the end, don't take any shit from anyone, and you'll be fine. Tell your girlfriend to continue searching for a job, but hey, I met people my age at divisional meetings that did fairly well selling it, it's just a matter of who you know initially to get your feet wet. PM me if you want to know anything else, because I have a lot to say on the matter, having worked for Vector for around 3 months over last summer. EDIT: lol shit I'm going to get flamed so hard for this. Bracing myself. You could have made so much more money if you'd just done it yourself though o.o
When I say scam, I mean they're not being fair. I don't mean they're exactly tricking you. They say what they're going to do, and they focus on people who don't realise it's a bad deal (young teens).
I mean... It's like Poetry.com. Technically, they do make a book and sell it. But it's not exactly quality or being sold in bookstores other than their own online thing.
It's just like... You could do so much better without this company. If you can sell crap people don't need, that's great. You're just wasting your talent with Vector.
On May 31 2009 01:48 Fontong wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2009 01:37 Mickey wrote:On May 30 2009 19:35 Hath wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Woa I got to put a stop to all this bullshit people are saying. You people don't now anything. Vector is an amazing company. I worked with them on and off for over a year. I eventually sold over $8,000 in personal sales largely to people I didn't know.
This is and isn't a tough job. First, off it isn't door to door. You call people and ask if they're interested in doing an appointment. Secondly, you don't just call random people you call the friends of people you last did the demo for. Thirdly, those people recommended their friends and often call them just to ask permission if it is okay if you call. Word of mouth is the best form of advertising. People listen to their friends advise. You don't have to be pushy at all.
Now the thing is that this job requires discipline, and the willingness to generate your own business. I was a pretty shy computer nerd and by the time I finished I could sell your mom knives at about a 66% success rate. The hardest part is getting over your nerves and calling people and asking. That's it.
As for doing the demonstrations those are fun. You go over take out your kit and go over the knife details and start cutting up vegetables. Mom's love this stuff. Its soo easy to sell.
Now as for the quality of knives. They certainly do cost more than their materials if you hand made one but all of the knives of similar quality you can buy in stores are still more expensive. They're made from high carbon stainless steel. 440A is the type of steel if you want to know.
The one of the most important features for cutco isn't the knives themselves but the warranty. They call it the forever guarantee. Basically, whenever your knives need sharpening or break you can send them back to the factory and get it sharpened or replaced for free. You pay for shipping one way. They'll even replace something for half price if you break something through misuse/abuse ( though you don't have to mention how it broke if you don't want to)
Yeah so the pay is kind of rough at the beginning but when I finished I made 25% commission and when I sold consistently that was pretty good. It gets better too if you sell more. Its based on career sales so it doesn't go down every month to some base rate like some other direct sales companies I've heard about.
Anyway, the key to this job is a little bit of self discipline and the ability to talk to other people. Its really not too tough. The $9 an hour job I've got right now makes me want to try vector again. $13-16 dollars an appointment doesn't really matter much since your commission usually is way bigger btw.
Oh yeah for those that sell well you often get offered assistant manager positions and eventually they will even sponsor you to open up your own office in other towns. This company kicks ass but you've got to be self starter basically. I quit because of other positions I got offered in my future field of work (which sadly ended recently)
Edit: Wow I just took a look at that spamlaws link. Its so biased. You don't have to buy your basic kit. You have to put down a deposit, a check which they will hold, and if you want to you can buy it. You can get it back if you bring the kit back to the office. There are additional kits with specialty knives which you can buy. gah I sound totally overzealous but man so much misinformation in this thread. LOL. So one positive experience completely negates dozens of negative experiences people have had with the company? You actually sound like one of the guys who was trying to convince me to do this. But all the people with negative experiences didn't work for the company apparently, while the two people who actually did work for it were the ones posting positive experiences. I didn't, but my brother did and it's exactly as we're all saying. Typically people end up just selling to their friends and family and then give up because it's not really a good wage for the amount of work and pay. I also have experience with the knives because my brother sold them to my mum too (HOW PRODUCTIVE!) and I hate using them whenever I'm there.
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On May 30 2009 19:35 Hath wrote: Words words words words. I'm glad you signed up to a StarCraft forum just to tell us this.
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Saying 'I sold $8000 of knives' =/= making $8000 selling knives.
Vector isn't really an outright scam so much as its just very difficult to succeed in selling their products. They assume you make ~$300 worth of sales per successful sale and sell to 6/10 customers you meet, which i think is ridiculous. And that you get approx. 20+ new customers every week. By this model you would indeed make a bunch of money, but what will happen to 95% of people is that after selling to close family and friends (all above 25, btw) they run out of customers and quit.
My opinion: take job, rent knives, call in a bunch of your family friends to testify to fake appointments and make 1 weeks worth of money. Then leave.
PS: I went to their interview a few days ago out of curiosity - then left
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Canada7170 Posts
On May 31 2009 01:59 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 15:16 mikeymoo wrote: I did this last summer. The pay is fine, and I still use the product now lol (best fucking knives ever). The managers can be pushy, but it's okay. Sounds very scammy/pyramid scheme like/false, but I'll assure you that it's legitimate. However, be forewarned that the pay isn't as consistent as they like to convince you it is. Also, if you're Asian, GOOD LUCK because it's way too difficult to sell to bother. Everyone who speaks basic English and applies gets the job. In the end, don't take any shit from anyone, and you'll be fine. Tell your girlfriend to continue searching for a job, but hey, I met people my age at divisional meetings that did fairly well selling it, it's just a matter of who you know initially to get your feet wet. PM me if you want to know anything else, because I have a lot to say on the matter, having worked for Vector for around 3 months over last summer. EDIT: lol shit I'm going to get flamed so hard for this. Bracing myself. You could have made so much more money if you'd just done it yourself though o.o When I say scam, I mean they're not being fair. I don't mean they're exactly tricking you. They say what they're going to do, and they focus on people who don't realise it's a bad deal (young teens). Well there's no other outlet that makes it this easy to sell any sort of product, not specifically door to door (you deal with internal contacts, and the whole thing is pretty smooth, really. You don't go door to door and ask "hey want to buy some knives"). It really is a trick, everything said from the managers or whatever beats around the bush so fast it will make your head spin.
Yes, most of their income comes from people to join, sell to their parents, and quit. It's part of their marketing scheme, but the people that do well are the ones that keep at it, because it's seriously very hard work. So if your girlfriend, Fontong, is looking for an easy job that pays 16-19/appt. without much work, tell her to look elsewhere. If she's up for a challenge, she should try her hand at it- it really changes your character and is an overall positive experience, no matter what the result is (if you quit, it just means you have a lower tolerance of bullshit). Again, just don't take shit from your managers and don't be afraid to talk back, because a lot of them aren't very qualified. If you have moral problem with asking certain questions to your clients, then don't follow their script, simple as that. Sales is always a difficult area to work in.
So by Chef's definition of scam, yes it is. But if you can rise above that and realize it's a bad deal for most people, and also understand that you want to have what it takes to succeed in this job, then you will do well.
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Canada7170 Posts
On May 31 2009 03:57 Equaoh wrote:Saying 'I sold $8000 of knives' =/= making $8000 selling knives. Vector isn't really an outright scam so much as its just very difficult to succeed in selling their products. They assume you make ~$300 worth of sales per successful sale and sell to 6/10 customers you meet, which i think is ridiculous. And that you get approx. 20+ new customers every week. By this model you would indeed make a bunch of money, but what will happen to 95% of people is that after selling to close family and friends (all above 25, btw) they run out of customers and quit. My opinion: take job, rent knives, call in a bunch of your family friends to testify to fake appointments and make 1 weeks worth of money. Then leave. PS: I went to their interview a few days ago out of curiosity - then left 
A lot of their stats come from an average of a minority of people who do very well, and a majority of people like you. I had an 80% closing ratio, with $350 average per sale. You get WAY more than 20 customers a week if you keep it up. Concerning the rental kit, I'd keep the knives after you quit, they give you a ridiculous discount and you'll eventually want a good set of knives lol. My opinion: I have no problem with taking the job, lying, and eventually quitting. You need to make the judgment call very early as to whether you have the motivation to do well or not. Otherwise, you will fester in the office making calls (which you don't get paid for), getting 5 appointments a week, not making any sales, and hating your 'job'.
PS: I made around the same as a stable cashier/retail job in the same amount of time. I'm not trying to advocate that you'll be making shittons of money from this job. It's just different. The commission scale is based on career sales. If I go back this summer, I will make the same commission as I did last year. But the experience was far better than anything I would have gotten at the local store, and I'm happy with that. I have some leftover propaganda that explains the managerial system that they gave me last year, if anyone is interested lol
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