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Vector Marketing: Scam? - Page 3

Blogs > Fontong
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Fontong
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States6454 Posts
May 30 2009 20:52 GMT
#41
Ok so if she is already going to be busy during the summer with schoolwork, and in addition to that does not have a car then she should definitely not take this job right?
[SECRET FONT] "Dragoon bunker"
mikeymoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada7170 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-30 23:22:41
May 30 2009 23:01 GMT
#42
On May 31 2009 05:52 Fontong wrote:
Ok so if she is already going to be busy during the summer with schoolwork, and in addition to that does not have a car then she should definitely not take this job right?

I've heard miracle stories where people pull this off, but they're rare and usually they come from rich families (which implies connections to people who will actually just plop down a grand on knives without much convincing).
You can treat it as a hobby, but definitely not a stable source of income. Lacking transport makes things pretty difficult unless you're really good at getting referrals to specific neighbourhoods. And that requires a specific skill set that she most like doesn't have (although she can learn).
What's her motivation for getting a job? The Vector training is unpaid and takes a really long time, and is probably something she won't want to deal with.
So although I'm a huge advocate of taking the job, it's not in her best interests, just from the people I met that were trying to do the same thing last year. None of them had what I would consider "success".
You can do what the guy mentioned before me, and call up a bunch of relatives/friends and schedule fake interviews, but they definitely call and spot check when you come in with 0% closing ratios over like 20 people. Things like that don't happen, ever. They also ask things like "what colour knives did you like best" or "are you currently employed", just to make sure that you did a proper presentation for people that at least had a chance of making a purchase.

tl;dr? The answer is a fairly resounding "no". I just wanted to clear up a lot of confusion regarding the job for the doubters.

EDIT: To be clear, 95% of the job applicants end up exactly as people in this thread end up. It's just when someone tells me that it can't possibly work or w/e that I start to get annoyed, since it worked for me. I don't want to come off as overzealous, but I feel like the company did a lot for me, and I want to get the word out that it can work.
o_x | Ow. | 1003 ESPORTS dollars | If you have any questions about bans please PM Kennigit
Kurosaki
Profile Joined August 2008
United States158 Posts
May 31 2009 00:30 GMT
#43
For some reason, this reminds me of some scenes from Napoleon Dynamite.

EDIT: To be clear, 95% of the job applicants end up exactly as people in this thread end up. It's just when someone tells me that it can't possibly work or w/e that I start to get annoyed, since it worked for me. I don't want to come off as overzealous, but I feel like the company did a lot for me, and I want to get the word out that it can work.

gah I sound totally overzealous but man so much misinformation in this thread.

You and hath have very similar views.

Also, most people would say the chances of it working out isn't high rather than dismissing it as an outright rip off.
Hath
Profile Joined January 2009
United States6 Posts
May 31 2009 02:39 GMT
#44
Okay so just to clarify. I did not sign up just to counter this thread. (Ironically I signed up months and months ago after months of lurking when I saw someone bad mouthing Supreme commander. I play supreme commander competitively so I care about that.)

I follow pro starcraft and watch all of the events MSL, OSL, GOM, and some of the foreign tourneys. I don't play starcraft much but I enjoy watching it. I don't usually feel like I have much to contribute to most starcraft discussions because I don't play it competitively.

I also did vector and I did okay. I said that I did it for about a year. It was a very positive experience that I enjoyed and learned a lot from. That being said I realize its not for everyone. You need to have discipline and some balls to have actually work for your work. It does have a high turnover. I think from my training class only 3 still did it 6 months later.

Realistically, Vector is an awesome opportunity for those that want to take it. If you put in the effort they will reward you very well. Its not a scam but it is an unusual job. I recommend giving it a try if you have another stable job and some free time.
The Will to Power
itzme_petey
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States1400 Posts
May 31 2009 02:53 GMT
#45
Essentially the company wants you to sell to your natural market. Natural market, being friends and family, leverage your relationship to force them to buy from you. The good salesmen can move beyond the natural market and sell to aquantiances. Companies that employ multi-level marketing or similar programs only want to take a new applicant's natural market and then leave them to burn. There is minimal training given to the employee (or employee pays for training/certification) to reduce costs. Other companies that follow this structure are life insurance companies as well as "financial services" companies that sell insurance products.

If you have the talent to be a salesmen, then go for it. However, I can tell you that 99% of the population do not have the talent. Therefore, once a salesman's natural market has been sucked dry, the company will hang the employee to dry. The next steps for the sales person is to recruit other sales people that still have their natural market.

These kinds of jobs are last resort and should not be considered by anyone in college or have a real internship. Even a job at Best Buy will improve sales skills 100x than something like this. Your girlfriend should not waste her time during the summer if she has other things that need to be done.
"Last night, I played a game.. as I recall it was a strategy game.. Peeked around and what did I see, a girl playing starcraft better than me.. and I jizzed in my pants.."
MamiyaOtaru
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1687 Posts
May 31 2009 02:57 GMT
#46
On May 30 2009 19:35 Hath wrote:
Woa I got to put a stop to all this bullshit people are saying. You people don't now anything. Vector is an amazing company. I worked with them on and off for over a year. I eventually sold over $8,000 in personal sales largely to people I didn't know.
...
hurf blurf

So what you;re saying is that you've been marketing knives like a mad crazy zombie? <- (classic shill post)
Hath
Profile Joined January 2009
United States6 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-31 05:32:21
May 31 2009 05:29 GMT
#47
I WAS showing knives. I work at a research institute now but it was an important job to me.

It pisses me off, basically if you walked into a room and found a bunch of people talking shit about starcraft which mostly wasn't true and hadn't ever actually played the game then you might try to straighten their shit out.

On May 31 2009 11:53 itzme_petey wrote:
Natural market, being friends and family, leverage your relationship to force them to buy from you.
The good salesmen can move beyond the natural market and sell to aquantiances.

Companies that employ multi-level marketing or similar programs only want to take a new applicant's natural market and then leave them to burn. There is minimal training given to the employee (or employee pays for training/certification) to reduce costs.

If you have the talent to be a salesmen, then go for it. However, I can tell you that 99% of the population do not have the talent. Therefore, once a salesman's natural market has been sucked dry, the company will hang the employee to dry.

These kinds of jobs are last resort and should not be considered by anyone in college or have a real internship. Even a job at Best Buy will improve sales skills 100x than something like this..

A lot of people do stop at their natural market. Being a good salesman for cutco only requires reading a script. That's about all I had to do. It really isn't that hard not too much talent required.

Minimal training? You get extensive training with vector. 3 days, then additional advanced training meetings, regular weekly meetings, quarterly divisional meetings, etc. They do everything they can to help you do well, its in their interest. As for the natural market its really not that hard to get past. You just need to work a little on your people skills. I mentioned that I was a shy computer nerd already. It helped me get past that a bit. Outgoing people have an even easier time.

You really think working at best buy improves sales skills? lol. I doubt that. People come to you to buy stuff they want. I went to people and had them buy stuff they didn't know they wanted.

Really I think the majority of people who fail at vector are scrubs. They didn't put the effort in and complain, not realizing it was their fault they failed.

I'm a little aggravated but most people at vector are really positive and cool people.
The Will to Power
Mickey
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United States2606 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-31 06:06:51
May 31 2009 05:58 GMT
#48
On May 31 2009 01:37 Mickey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2009 19:35 Hath wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Woa I got to put a stop to all this bullshit people are saying. You people don't now anything. Vector is an amazing company. I worked with them on and off for over a year. I eventually sold over $8,000 in personal sales largely to people I didn't know.

This is and isn't a tough job. First, off it isn't door to door. You call people and ask if they're interested in doing an appointment. Secondly, you don't just call random people you call the friends of people you last did the demo for. Thirdly, those people recommended their friends and often call them just to ask permission if it is okay if you call. Word of mouth is the best form of advertising. People listen to their friends advise. You don't have to be pushy at all.

Now the thing is that this job requires discipline, and the willingness to generate your own business. I was a pretty shy computer nerd and by the time I finished I could sell your mom knives at about a 66% success rate. The hardest part is getting over your nerves and calling people and asking. That's it.

As for doing the demonstrations those are fun. You go over take out your kit and go over the knife details and start cutting up vegetables. Mom's love this stuff. Its soo easy to sell.

Now as for the quality of knives. They certainly do cost more than their materials if you hand made one but all of the knives of similar quality you can buy in stores are still more expensive. They're made from high carbon stainless steel. 440A is the type of steel if you want to know.

The one of the most important features for cutco isn't the knives themselves but the warranty. They call it the forever guarantee. Basically, whenever your knives need sharpening or break you can send them back to the factory and get it sharpened or replaced for free. You pay for shipping one way. They'll even replace something for half price if you break something through misuse/abuse ( though you don't have to mention how it broke if you don't want to)

Yeah so the pay is kind of rough at the beginning but when I finished I made 25% commission and when I sold consistently that was pretty good. It gets better too if you sell more. Its based on career sales so it doesn't go down every month to some base rate like some other direct sales companies I've heard about.

Anyway, the key to this job is a little bit of self discipline and the ability to talk to other people. Its really not too tough. The $9 an hour job I've got right now makes me want to try vector again. $13-16 dollars an appointment doesn't really matter much since your commission usually is way bigger btw.

Oh yeah for those that sell well you often get offered assistant manager positions and eventually they will even sponsor you to open up your own office in other towns. This company kicks ass but you've got to be self starter basically. I quit because of other positions I got offered in my future field of work (which sadly ended recently)

Edit: Wow I just took a look at that spamlaws link. Its so biased. You don't have to buy your basic kit. You have to put down a deposit, a check which they will hold, and if you want to you can buy it. You can get it back if you bring the kit back to the office. There are additional kits with specialty knives which you can buy.


gah I sound totally overzealous but man so much misinformation in this thread.

LOL. So one positive experience completely negates dozens of negative experiences people have had with the company?

You actually sound like one of the guys who was trying to convince me to do this.

Valid point, but as people have clearly explained it wasn't WORTH going into. Also, a lot of people explained they had family members get into the job, and realize it was a sham.

As far as the two guys defending this company like it's their baby's mother. All I have to say is that I'm glad that you guys succeeded in your so called "job".

However, a Pyramid scheme needs your so called "success stories" in order to pitch their product to begin with. A pyramid scheme with 100% fail ratio won't last long, and certainly won't last nearly as long with 80% success ratio. How can you guys honestly try to convince people this isn't a sham when one of you guys clearly stated that 95% of people who go through this futile act won't make a decent amount of money to counter their hard work and time put into it.

Also, calling people who didn't didn't succeed at Vector "scrubs" doesn't really do anything for your argument. So basically your calling most people scrubs? I'm sorry, we don't all have the traits of great salesmanship like you do man. Stop pitching this like your life depends on it.

PS: How can you compare people bad mouthing Vector to Starcraft?,lol. SC has popular praise and a cult fan base.

edit: referring to mikeymoo and hath
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
May 31 2009 07:09 GMT
#49
This is retard tell her to quit here job asap there are much better jobs availible. I went to their recruitment session once it is completely phony. They MAKE YOU BUY THEIR KNIFE so right away they scam away your money and you're pressured to sell it.
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Hath
Profile Joined January 2009
United States6 Posts
May 31 2009 09:33 GMT
#50
omfg *facepalm*

Its not a scam and it isn't a pyramid scheme. Cutco are the brand of knives they sell. They have been around since the 1950s and have over 14 million customers annually (so cutco is actually more popular than starcraft if you want to look at it that way hence my comparison). They're one of the top selling brands of cutlery. As has been addressed at least once you do NOT need to buy the knives to work for vector. You can borrow them so you can do demonstrations with them. People like to test things out before they them. You aren't pressured into sell anything since you don't have to take the job and you don't have to pressure anyone to buy it. The product is good and people like it.

Just to clarify when you "sell knives" to people all you do is make an order. Unlike other direct sales companies and real pyramid schemes you do not buy the knives for the customer (like avon, nuskin, amway/quixnet). You don't try to enlist the customer to sell more knives to other people. You get paid commission for what you sell to customers that's it. The only way you could actually lose money doing cutco is if your transportation costs are crazy high and you didn't sell enough to make it worth it. You don't have to spend your money on anything else to sell cutco.

I acknowledge that many people don't succeed at vector but I think its for the same reason people never succeed at climbing a ranked ladder. Then people blame the game or in this case the company for not succeeding. Its not a fair assessment.

I'm defending it because it was an awesome experience for me and I don't think people should miss out on it just because some douche who hasn't even done it convince them not to because he has a false impression of what its like. Would you tell people to avoid starcraft because most people don't get beyond D rank? Wouldn't you agree that even though you might never be A rank that it is still a worthwhile experience?


The Will to Power
FieryBalrog
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States1381 Posts
June 01 2009 02:59 GMT
#51
It only works for people with a specific mindset and drive. Most people don't have that and are extremely uncomfortable selling stuff (you have to be pushy and almost, rude... I worked in telemarketing and hated it).

I had a friend who succeeded at it, she made a lot of money doing it in the summer (including selling a ridiculously expensive pair of scissors to my parents- like $65 or so- but they are damn good scissors).

Thats the only reason I went in. Like everyone else, the first thing that struck me as totally bullshit was that basically everyone who came to the "group session" to be interviewed was offered a position, maybe like 1 person didn't make it.

I couldn't even make it through training though. As soon as they wanted the deposit for the knives I told them I'd have trouble getting the money then I didn't come back for the 3rd day of training. Especially since I would feel horrible pushing my family and my mom and dad's friends to buy my stuff out of pity.
I will eat you alive
29 fps
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States5724 Posts
June 01 2009 03:58 GMT
#52
On May 31 2009 18:33 Hath wrote:
omfg *facepalm*

Its not a scam and it isn't a pyramid scheme. Cutco are the brand of knives they sell. They have been around since the 1950s and have over 14 million customers annually (so cutco is actually more popular than starcraft if you want to look at it that way hence my comparison). They're one of the top selling brands of cutlery. As has been addressed at least once you do NOT need to buy the knives to work for vector. You can borrow them so you can do demonstrations with them. People like to test things out before they them. You aren't pressured into sell anything since you don't have to take the job and you don't have to pressure anyone to buy it. The product is good and people like it.

Just to clarify when you "sell knives" to people all you do is make an order. Unlike other direct sales companies and real pyramid schemes you do not buy the knives for the customer (like avon, nuskin, amway/quixnet). You don't try to enlist the customer to sell more knives to other people. You get paid commission for what you sell to customers that's it. The only way you could actually lose money doing cutco is if your transportation costs are crazy high and you didn't sell enough to make it worth it. You don't have to spend your money on anything else to sell cutco.

I acknowledge that many people don't succeed at vector but I think its for the same reason people never succeed at climbing a ranked ladder. Then people blame the game or in this case the company for not succeeding. Its not a fair assessment.

I'm defending it because it was an awesome experience for me and I don't think people should miss out on it just because some douche who hasn't even done it convince them not to because he has a false impression of what its like. Would you tell people to avoid starcraft because most people don't get beyond D rank? Wouldn't you agree that even though you might never be A rank that it is still a worthwhile experience?




sc is different because even if you dont get beyond D rank, at least you're not wasting a lot of money. plus, it could be enjoyable to just play, even if it is "wasting time".

for this vector thing, you have to not only waste lots of time, but also money if you dont succeed.

and you'll also be feeling pretty shitty that you fell for a scam.

they're not the same.
4v4 is a battle of who has the better computer.
teh leet newb
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States1999 Posts
June 17 2009 03:09 GMT
#53
Okay so I just went into my Vector interview today and got a position, bla bla bla. I knew everything beforehand and how they're allegedly a "scam" or whatever. But what I really want to know is: do they actually refund the $144 deposit? I don't care about the shitty treatment and difficulty in making appointments; I can deal with it. As long as I can make some money, I'll be pretty content. I have a shitload of spare time right now even with a part-time job at CVS (they don't give me enough hours), and I'm really broke so I just need 2nd job. I actually think the idea of going into random acquaintances' homes and trying to communicate with them is kind of interesting, as it'll probably help me with communication and persuasion skills. Think it's still worth it for me?
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
June 17 2009 04:01 GMT
#54
On May 31 2009 14:29 Hath wrote:

You really think working at best buy improves sales skills? lol. I doubt that. People come to you to buy stuff they want. I went to people and had them buy stuff they didn't know they wanted.

This is actually an interesting point. I haven't done Vector and I would imagine it sucks if you don't have a car, but there are a lot of seemingly crappy jobs that improve your character by forcing you to be more engaging, even if the pay isn't great.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
intruding
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
157 Posts
June 17 2009 04:14 GMT
#55
--- Nuked ---
c0stc0dud1
Profile Joined January 2008
United States144 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-17 06:16:04
June 17 2009 06:13 GMT
#56
On June 01 2009 12:58 29 fps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2009 18:33 Hath wrote:
omfg *facepalm*

Its not a scam and it isn't a pyramid scheme. Cutco are the brand of knives they sell. They have been around since the 1950s and have over 14 million customers annually (so cutco is actually more popular than starcraft if you want to look at it that way hence my comparison). They're one of the top selling brands of cutlery. As has been addressed at least once you do NOT need to buy the knives to work for vector. You can borrow them so you can do demonstrations with them. People like to test things out before they them. You aren't pressured into sell anything since you don't have to take the job and you don't have to pressure anyone to buy it. The product is good and people like it.

Just to clarify when you "sell knives" to people all you do is make an order. Unlike other direct sales companies and real pyramid schemes you do not buy the knives for the customer (like avon, nuskin, amway/quixnet). You don't try to enlist the customer to sell more knives to other people. You get paid commission for what you sell to customers that's it. The only way you could actually lose money doing cutco is if your transportation costs are crazy high and you didn't sell enough to make it worth it. You don't have to spend your money on anything else to sell cutco.

I acknowledge that many people don't succeed at vector but I think its for the same reason people never succeed at climbing a ranked ladder. Then people blame the game or in this case the company for not succeeding. Its not a fair assessment.

I'm defending it because it was an awesome experience for me and I don't think people should miss out on it just because some douche who hasn't even done it convince them not to because he has a false impression of what its like. Would you tell people to avoid starcraft because most people don't get beyond D rank? Wouldn't you agree that even though you might never be A rank that it is still a worthwhile experience?




sc is different because even if you dont get beyond D rank, at least you're not wasting a lot of money. plus, it could be enjoyable to just play, even if it is "wasting time".

for this vector thing, you have to not only waste lots of time, but also money if you dont succeed.

and you'll also be feeling pretty shitty that you fell for a scam.

they're not the same.


In a lot of situations, time is money. I'm not here to bash, but especially if you're in education and not doing well as a result of playing sc excessively, you're wasting money (if you are not earning any profits from competitive sc that is). plus, hath's experience has sounded quite enjoyable as well.



HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-17 21:05:10
June 17 2009 13:55 GMT
#57
is this a scam?
http://www.prosperingfromhome.com/
sent a message of interest and got this
+ Show Spoiler +

Hello Nam

I just received your request for information from our Prospering From Home website.

Thank you for your interest! I am excited to set a time to meet with you. I will be contacting you in the next 24 to 48 hours to gain a better understanding of what it may mean to you to work from home.

There is no time better than the present to start a home-based business. Did you know that a new home-based business opens up every three seconds here in the United States? Why not you? You could be earning income from home with our proven turn-key automated system.

I look forward to connecting with you soon and to helping you succeed from home! Thank you again for your interest.

Sincerely,

Barbara Vroman PHR
517-227-0369
bavro@aol.com
http://www.ProsperingFromHome.net/bavro


This email was sent to you on 2009-6-9 as a permission-based subscriber of: Response Magic, 10 Washburn Drive, Kitchener, Ontario, Canada, N2R 1S2

To be removed from this list, please click here or copy and paste the following link into your browser:
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got an email for a free training presentation, so i figure why not?
+ Show Spoiler +

Hello Nam,

It was a pleasure speaking with you! Below you will find the instructions to join us for our scheduled Business Overview at:

Wednesday, June 17th, 2009
3:00 pm - Central Standard (CST)

I will be contacting you after the Business Presentation to answer any questions you might have. Please reply to this e-mail to verify that you have received the log-in instructions. If you are unable to attend this appointment, please contact me so we may release your reserved spot and reschedule @ 517-227-0369. The webcast will last approximately 45 minutes.

We request that you arrive 10-15 minutes early to the webcast, to ensure that you have no difficulties logging in. Prior to our appointment, please feel free to go to the office entry page and test your computer to see if you can access our office without any technical difficulties.

It is a good idea to clean your cookies and temporary internet files in first. (Instructions BELOW) Also you must enter into the site through Internet Explorer. You may have to disable your pop up blocker.

To join the Business Webcast, click link below:
www.TeamsUnlimited.com/webcast.htm

1. Click on Enter Room #2
2. Enter your name as G - Nam Tran - TX;(G = Guest)
3. Type the Password: welcomehome, and press login.
4. It will download a Java player automatically
5. You will be launched into the office site within seconds.
6. Watch for the Active X download (tan line across top of screen) if you're not running the current version.

You will see a Text Chat Area and a screen to view the visual webcast. You can communicate privately with me by pulling my name down from the dropdown box in the Text Chat Area, next to the smiley face. If you experience difficulty hearing the webcast, please let me know immediately and we will come up with Plan "B" to make sure you can both hear and see.

If you experience any technical difficulty, you can contact me or refer to the link below for some easy tech solutions to successfully launch you into online web conference room. http://thedreamteamonline.com/ivocalize/ivocal.htm

Cleaning Cookies

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"A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step"

***************Lao Tzu***************
Barbara Vroman PHR
bavro@aol.com
517-227-0369
http://www.prosperingfromhone.net/bavro


she also called my house phone o_oll

and of course google
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&q=prospering from home scam&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&fp=RSigrpzoeQc

-shrug-
thoughts?

Actually, the presentation is going right now.

Company is called... Revenue Sharing at Melaleuca?

Ah, there it is.
15 dollar payment to start.

And, some kind of 200$ dollar thing to start a business?

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=Melaleuca scam&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&fp=RSigrpzoeQc

that turns up a lot more results O_O
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-17 21:08:44
June 17 2009 20:43 GMT
#58
bump.
Ehm, ^above post, unless someone else confirms that this is NOT a scam- I'm not pursuing this further.

Good waste of an hour on that presentation though.
Oh well. guess I'll just man up and take that job at the construction site.
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36374 Posts
June 17 2009 20:56 GMT
#59
There's different levels of scam. It's not a scam in the technical sense because its not like they force you to pay and then deceive you about what you're getting. It's a "scam" in the sense that this is not a long term job for 99% of the people that enter it, because they are basically using you to sell knives to your friends and family. Don't get me wrong, they are good knives, but unless you are one of the very few with legit sales talent (you could probably make more somewhere else if you are this good anyway) then you will just burn out after a short period and not make very much at all.

Just look at the guy who said it was good for him, he's the very minority of opinions, and he's not even with the company anymore after only one year. That should really tell you something about how good it is.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32051 Posts
June 17 2009 21:38 GMT
#60
It's a bullshit job. Legitimate jobs don't make you pay for the goods. Fuck that.
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
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