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I always loved terran because of 2 major reasons
1st. Not many people play it, so when one's good it really shines out.
2nd. TvZ's bionic mnm control/SKTerran is fucken art to perform and watch.......
However recently im getting really dissapointed because every TvZ i see or almost every TvZ from the pro scenes, all the players go mech. Its getting annoying to see them take that gas at 12 psi. I know SC is constantly evolving but however this is one area i hope that it doesn't develop any further.......
TvZ with bionic= Art form
TvZ with mech= another match up.
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i agree, this mech stuff is getting stale really quick
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United States11390 Posts
Mech has defiled the most beautiful matchup in the game. :<
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i mean the first few games i was like "Sweet TvZ innovation, mech going into style" now everyone is doing it SO much... its not good anymore.
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I agree that TvZ MnM can be incredibly intense, entertaining, while being very effective. MnM with multiple dropship play can really fuck up Zerg expos, 6~7 marines from 1 dropship can take out a hatchery very fast.
Its cost efficient but the only major downside is that bionic units require too much babysitting, you need to constantly stim and spread them and avoid lurker spines
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I completely disagree, the reason why sc exists til this day is because of inventive strategies and styles always coming up and making it more fun to watch and to see how the races in each match up have to transition to a different style to counter the newer build orders, that being said not EVERY tvz in the proscene is mech, you probably haven't watched alot if you think every single game uses mech play.
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starcraft hasn't evolved much but the maps have.
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Wait till new map pool I think.
Mech works so good on Destination because of the choke points where you can just cut off entry by siege and hold the ground to stop any advancement of opponent armies. Haven't seen it used real effectively on any other map though.
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On May 19 2009 13:10 lokiM wrote:
I completely disagree, the reason why sc exists til this day is because of inventive strategies and styles always coming up and making it more fun to watch and to see how the races in each match up have to transition to a different style to counter the newer build orders, that being said not EVERY tvz in the proscene is mech, you probably haven't watched alot if you think every single game uses mech play.
I've watched just about every TvZ in the past year and only in the recent map pool has mech been THAT big of a deal.
It's not innovation (Fantasy build isn't really mech...) it's just the map.
Mech TvZ sucks, boring to watch and makes me cringe when I see it.
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The low point of mech probably was Ruby vs Hoejja.
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On May 19 2009 13:13 SCC-Faust wrote:
Wait till new map pool I think.
Mech works so good on Destination because of the choke points where you can just cut off entry by siege and hold the ground to stop any advancement of opponent armies. Haven't seen it used real effectively on any other map though.
yeah i think it usually depends on the map, i love watching tvz w/out the mech but its still interesting either way
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medusa seems like a perfect map for bionic, cuz of the giant middle that you can't build on, yet most still go mech...
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On May 19 2009 13:22 YPang wrote:
medusa seems like a perfect map for bionic, cuz of the giant middle that you can't build on, yet most still go mech...
Neo Medusa
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go.go said in his interview about his OSL group that mech is safer on the new maps. Wait until next season.
I agree, though...except I thought you were supposed to get gas at 10 or 11 depending on your depot timing?
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meh, bionic is so much more fun than mech. I don't like using golis and tanks simply because of their shitty pathing.
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I actually like both playing and watching mech not gonna lie, I also enjoy playing and watching bio however
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On May 19 2009 13:19 Avidkeystamper wrote:
The low point of mech probably was Ruby vs Hoejja.
I cringe thinking about that game.
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The solution is to go watch Leta's TvZ
not that I'm biased or anything
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On May 19 2009 13:22 YPang wrote:
medusa seems like a perfect map for bionic, cuz of the giant middle that you can't build on, yet most still go mech...
pretty much what i said, you've been living under a rock. Neo Medusa you can build in center
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yeah i hate mech. I think mnm just LOOKS awesome, also gameplay wise i think mnm is more viable unless you're on a terribly imbalanced map anyway (colloseum tvz, destination tvz, etc)
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On May 19 2009 14:24 lokiM wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 13:22 YPang wrote:
medusa seems like a perfect map for bionic, cuz of the giant middle that you can't build on, yet most still go mech... pretty much what i said, you've been living under a rock. Neo Medusa you can build in center
his arguement still holds true for the original medusa....
I think the reason mech was popular on medusa was because of the free 3rd min-only and rather short distances between the bases. Also drop-play is very good on it because of the large surface area of the main bases (aka fantasy build).
But yeah, watching mech TvZ is the most boring MU in the game to watch :\, not to mention playing vs it. Every time I play a terran on ICCUP who goes mech I get so fucking pissed.
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Agreed that Mech TvZ is more boring. Watching Fantasy play is a treat though imo
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For quite a while I was getting awesome freewins on destination cause every terran was trying to copy fantasy. It was always some kind of variations of vultures into vulture drop into mech or two port wraiths. An early hydra den with one sunk dealt with it mostly. Mutas transition dealt with the wraiths and stopped terran from grabbing the nat for free. I know most zergs tend to avoid mutas against two port wraith, but at C- level the terrans really don't have the control to be of any harm with their wraiths. They're like D zergs using mutas :-D. I do think that the mech era has brought new playstyles into the matchup that I hope will die out soon. I think once destination's out of map pool, we'll see the light at the end of the tunnel.
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i think mech can be fun if used well but most of the time terrans just hold cliffs/bridges and turtle from start to finish which i hate. I like upmagic and fantasy's way of playing mech. Their whole foundation to mech is vult harass.
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Yeah I agree. I feel like ZvT has turned into PvZ. As a zerg I feel like I have to constantly scout and read what terran is doing, just like in PvZ. Plus muta micro and lurker spines and swarm and all that shit is so much more exciting than muta/hydra/ling -.-
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On May 19 2009 13:22 YPang wrote:
medusa seems like a perfect map for bionic, cuz of the giant middle that you can't build on, yet most still go mech...
Nah the biggest reason why people went mech on maps like destination, colo 2 and medusa was because of 2 hatch muta. Mutas are so hard to play against on these maps. Medusa the cliff on top of the main is rediculous on top of that theres a cliff next to the nat too. Mutas can also go behind the main too. But lately terrans are doing this 1 barrack double wall in, fast +1 weap bio on medusa which helps vs muta seen ret use it a lot in his stream games and idra used it too in a rep i saw.
Destination's nat is so frustrating. I can make 5 turrets and they all die to mutas while zerg doesnt even lose a single muta. The bridges also make it abit hard to get out if they have lurks and zerg can pick off so much units with mutas when you go through the bridges. Mutas can also go behind your nat into your main.
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United States11390 Posts
On May 19 2009 15:15 Ilikestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 13:22 YPang wrote:
medusa seems like a perfect map for bionic, cuz of the giant middle that you can't build on, yet most still go mech... Nah the biggest reason why people went mech on maps like destination, colo 2 and medusa was because of 2 hatch muta. Mutas are so hard to play against on these maps. Medusa the cliff on top of the main is rediculous on top of that theres a cliff next to the nat too. Mutas can also go behind the main too. But lately terrans are doing this 1 barrack double wall in, fast +1 weap bio on medusa which helps vs muta seen ret use it a lot in his stream games and idra used it too in a rep i saw.
You also have to be protecting the temples from lurkers. ~_~
btw 14cc into mech is the gayest build ever on medusa :<
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TvZ Bio is beautiful to watch when played well
It feels great if you are playing it well also
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Well i think that the game is just evolving and sooner or l8er it will all change again. Who knows.
The reason why pros uses mech i think now days is coz with mech u can focus less on your micro and more on your macro and therefore you have less chanse of screwing up the whole thing with small things like missing a supply depot and such. This i meens that you are at an avrage level and more consistant where as bio is more powerfull i think in many ways but if u screw up you are probably going to lose and i guess pros just think it is better to play safe than to gamble on your own skills.
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I enjoy playing and watching mech more than bio. imo it is a more tactical style of play. Also, I think that you're exaggerating its popularity. There aren't a whole lot of games with all-out mech. You see a lot more fast tech builds, like the fake mech into bio with valk support, or 2 port wraith, which Leta has been using practically every game. But the only person I see using all-out mech consistently is UpMagic, who amazes me every time I see him play against zerg. I honestly wish mech was used more often.
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EPT
