• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:43
CEST 21:43
KST 04:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists10[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers9Maestros of the Game 2 announced32026 GSL Tour plans announced8Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail0MaNa leaves Team Liquid19
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
Data needed BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion ASL21 General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro16 Group A [ASL21] Ro24 Group F
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
McBoner: A hockey love story 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Reappraising The Situation T…
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2692 users

[Math Puzzle] Day3

Blogs > evanthebouncy!
Post a Reply
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 01:33:09
April 29 2009 01:21 GMT
#1
So now it's day 3!

Solution to previous day's puzzle was done by Highways. GJ!
+ Show Spoiler [solution] +

Burn 1 rope on both end, burn 1 rope on one end.
In 30 minutes, the first rope will burn out. At that precise point, burn the other end of the second rope. Second rope will then take 15 more minutes to burn out, adding up to 45.
Key Intuition: If burn both side of the rope, it'll take 1/2 the time to burn entire rope.


Today's Question:
You have a circular-ish racing track such that, when viewed from above, it is a circle, but if you view it from other angles, you realize that it has at different parts of the track different heights.
[image loading]

For instance, the racing track might look like this curve, with arbitrary heights at different points, but when viewed from above, it is a circle.

Your Job:
Prove that there exists 1 pair of points on this track that are opposite from each other when viewed above, that has exactly the same heights.
[image loading]


Extra Info:
As usual, put all answers in spoilers, and the first to answer correctly gets honorary mention in the next blog.
Clarifications will be added as needed, as some of the assumptions might not be familiar.

Again, gl hf!

Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
April 29 2009 01:38 GMT
#2
You mean at least one, right?
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24768 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 01:42:17
April 29 2009 01:42 GMT
#3
Clarification: do you mean, prove that there is at least one pair?

+ Show Spoiler +
Is this an application of the intermediate value theorum?


edit: rofl woops you got it first dromar
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Abydos1
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States832 Posts
April 29 2009 01:43 GMT
#4
+ Show Spoiler +
If the circle is completely flat its trivial; with the random heights it has to go both up and down over the entire circumference, if we look from the perspective of an observer travelling around the track always looking at the point opposite him say that it starts lower than him, he must eventually go down to that height and the track must come up to meet his height and since it is a continuous track there must therefore be a point where they cross.


I'm having trouble coming up with the right words to explain but I think that gets the point across.
"...perhaps the greatest joy possible in Starcraft, being accused of being a maphacker" - Day[9]
Hamster1800
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States175 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 01:44:25
April 29 2009 01:43 GMT
#5
+ Show Spoiler +
If you define the function f(x) (where x is a point on the circle) to be the height at x, then let g(x) = f(x) - f(-x), you can see that g(x) = -g(-x) and it is continuous, so g has to be 0 at some point (by the intermediate value theorem). This can be generalized to a sphere mapping onto two dimensions (for example the temperature and pressure at a point of the earth) and is a well known result in algebraic topology.
D is for Diamond, E is for Everything Else
JeeJee
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Canada5652 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 03:12:22
April 29 2009 02:54 GMT
#6
aha
finally a puzzle i haven't seen before on the net
anyway, here's my solution
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


red dot is the proof.

actually this is just like that monk problem with the mountain 9am and 12noon going up and down stuff. so i suppose i have seen this before.
put the sol'n back in drawing form i guess if some haven't seen the monk riddle
let A start in green and B start in blue. those 2 paths are arbitrary paths they follow around half of the circle, always remaining opposite. as the red dot shows at some point the paths are same height.

dammit evan give me puzzles i haven't seen before !

(\o/)  If you want it, you find a way. Otherwise you find excuses. No exceptions.
 /_\   aka Shinbi (requesting a name change since 27/05/09 ☺)
igotmyown
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4291 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 03:14:43
April 29 2009 03:12 GMT
#7
+ Show Spoiler +

Let h(t)=the height of the circle at angle t (pick an arbitary point as 0). h(t) is continuous. i(t)=h(t+pi) is continuous. j(t)=i(t)-h(t) is continous. j(t)=j(t+2*pi). There exists t1, t2 in [0,2*pi) such that j(t1)>=0 and j(t2)<=0. Therefore there exists t3 in [t1,t2] or [t2,t1] such that j(t3)=0.


I like hamsters, along with any answer that references algebraic topology.
ninjafetus
Profile Joined December 2008
United States231 Posts
April 29 2009 03:31 GMT
#8
+ Show Spoiler +
Hamster1800 has the solution. For a number of the others, even if you show that the same height is reached at some point, you still haven't shown that your pair of points is at opposite ends of the projected circle.
Everywhere
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States97 Posts
April 29 2009 03:32 GMT
#9
On April 29 2009 11:54 JeeJee wrote:
aha
finally a puzzle i haven't seen before on the net
anyway, here's my solution
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


red dot is the proof.

actually this is just like that monk problem with the mountain 9am and 12noon going up and down stuff. so i suppose i have seen this before.
put the sol'n back in drawing form i guess if some haven't seen the monk riddle
let A start in green and B start in blue. those 2 paths are arbitrary paths they follow around half of the circle, always remaining opposite. as the red dot shows at some point the paths are same height.

dammit evan give me puzzles i haven't seen before !



this. the monk problem also came to my mind as soon as i read this lol
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 05:57:00
April 29 2009 05:54 GMT
#10
+ Show Spoiler +

Since "viewed from above it's a circle", can define a function t:[0, 2pi] -> R which represents the height of the track at each angle, which should be a continuous function. t(0) = t(2pi)

Define f:[0, pi] -> R by f(x) = t(pi + x) - t(x), which is a continuous function as well. Notice f(0) = -f(pi)
if f(0) = 0, done, otherwise can apply intermediate value theorem which says there is a y in (0, pi) such that f(y) = 0.
At this angle and the point opposite of it on the circle, the heights will be the same, since t(pi + y) - t(y) = 0
thus t(pi + y) = t(y).
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States556 Posts
April 29 2009 10:09 GMT
#11
Bursak-Ulam much?
starleague.mit.edu
BottleAbuser
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)1888 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 12:33:05
April 29 2009 12:32 GMT
#12
Shit me. I misunderstood the question.
Compilers are like boyfriends, you miss a period and they go crazy on you.
edahl
Profile Joined February 2008
Norway483 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 13:14:04
April 29 2009 13:07 GMT
#13
+ Show Spoiler +
uhm, if s=cos(s8pi)/cos(8pi), then t=(cos(s8pi)/cos(8pi) should be the same height. Then, it would be opposite of t=s+pi, though I might just be way off. Already had a math exam today, so I don't expect to be right *phuuw*


EDIT: BTW, I liked the "pure math" nature of the puzzle. Ants and strings are confusing :-P
Klockan3
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Sweden2866 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 13:59:36
April 29 2009 13:53 GMT
#14
You guys are all wrong!


+ Show Spoiler +

It nowhere says that the race track must be continuous, I construct my race track as
f(µ)=µ
0=<µ<2pi
The jump makes it a lot more interesting.


Chromyne
Profile Joined January 2008
Canada561 Posts
April 29 2009 16:07 GMT
#15
On April 29 2009 22:53 Klockan3 wrote:
You guys are all wrong!


+ Show Spoiler +

It nowhere says that the race track must be continuous, I construct my race track as
f(µ)=µ
0=<µ<2pi
The jump makes it a lot more interesting.




I was going to disagree with you, but
+ Show Spoiler +
I believe a track by definition doesn't need to complete a circuit. However, if this is true, then the problem is unsolvable because you can just make a helix type track. Therefore, I believe it is to be assumed that the track forms a compelte circuit, and the solution is just using IVT.
Soli Deo gloria.
Klockan3
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Sweden2866 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 16:34:36
April 29 2009 16:33 GMT
#16
On April 30 2009 01:07 Chromyne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2009 22:53 Klockan3 wrote:
You guys are all wrong!


+ Show Spoiler +

It nowhere says that the race track must be continuous, I construct my race track as
f(µ)=µ
0=<µ<2pi
The jump makes it a lot more interesting.




I was going to disagree with you, but
+ Show Spoiler +
I believe a track by definition doesn't need to complete a circuit. However, if this is true, then the problem is unsolvable because you can just make a helix type track. Therefore, I believe it is to be assumed that the track forms a compelte circuit, and the solution is just using IVT.

+ Show Spoiler +
No, all that is required to just have it be a defined function on the interval µ=[0,2pi), if you just employ the restriction that it needs to be continious you can still get into the problem where it have multiple values at the same angle.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 17m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 579
OGKoka 179
BRAT_OK 71
DenverSC2 56
MindelVK 24
EmSc Tv 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 22136
Soma 326
Rush 169
firebathero 160
Soulkey 140
ggaemo 72
Hyun 33
Free 27
Backho 21
Dota 2
LuMiX0
League of Legends
goblin59
Counter-Strike
fl0m7932
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu326
Other Games
summit1g4834
Grubby3325
FrodaN820
Beastyqt664
B2W.Neo365
Mlord331
KnowMe185
C9.Mang0124
ArmadaUGS104
QueenE52
Trikslyr50
ZombieGrub45
Mew2King28
KawaiiRice1
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL76
StarCraft 2
angryscii 33
EmSc Tv 23
EmSc2Tv 23
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 23 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 73
• Shameless 26
• Adnapsc2 14
• davetesta11
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 29
• blackmanpl 27
• 80smullet 21
• FirePhoenix9
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Noizen34
League of Legends
• TFBlade1292
Other Games
• imaqtpie914
• Scarra388
• Shiphtur80
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 17m
The PondCast
14h 17m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
15h 17m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 4h
Escore
1d 14h
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 15h
OSC
1d 19h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
2 days
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
BSL
3 days
IPSL
3 days
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Bisu vs Ample
Jaedong vs Flash
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Barracks vs Leta
Royal vs Light
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-14
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.