• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:02
CET 04:02
KST 12:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.173Evil Geniuses - shutting down19ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League91
StarCraft 2
General
Evil Geniuses - shutting down Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17 REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
2026 KungFu Cup Announcement RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Do we even care about balance? Starcraft player cRuZa Passed away. SCHNAIL now supports Remastered BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4 [BSL23] RO24 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Chess Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9693 users

[Math Puzzle] Day3

Blogs > evanthebouncy!
Post a Reply
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12816 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 01:33:09
April 29 2009 01:21 GMT
#1
So now it's day 3!

Solution to previous day's puzzle was done by Highways. GJ!
+ Show Spoiler [solution] +

Burn 1 rope on both end, burn 1 rope on one end.
In 30 minutes, the first rope will burn out. At that precise point, burn the other end of the second rope. Second rope will then take 15 more minutes to burn out, adding up to 45.
Key Intuition: If burn both side of the rope, it'll take 1/2 the time to burn entire rope.


Today's Question:
You have a circular-ish racing track such that, when viewed from above, it is a circle, but if you view it from other angles, you realize that it has at different parts of the track different heights.
[image loading]

For instance, the racing track might look like this curve, with arbitrary heights at different points, but when viewed from above, it is a circle.

Your Job:
Prove that there exists 1 pair of points on this track that are opposite from each other when viewed above, that has exactly the same heights.
[image loading]


Extra Info:
As usual, put all answers in spoilers, and the first to answer correctly gets honorary mention in the next blog.
Clarifications will be added as needed, as some of the assumptions might not be familiar.

Again, gl hf!

Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
April 29 2009 01:38 GMT
#2
You mean at least one, right?
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24805 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 01:42:17
April 29 2009 01:42 GMT
#3
Clarification: do you mean, prove that there is at least one pair?

+ Show Spoiler +
Is this an application of the intermediate value theorum?


edit: rofl woops you got it first dromar
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Abydos1
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States832 Posts
April 29 2009 01:43 GMT
#4
+ Show Spoiler +
If the circle is completely flat its trivial; with the random heights it has to go both up and down over the entire circumference, if we look from the perspective of an observer travelling around the track always looking at the point opposite him say that it starts lower than him, he must eventually go down to that height and the track must come up to meet his height and since it is a continuous track there must therefore be a point where they cross.


I'm having trouble coming up with the right words to explain but I think that gets the point across.
"...perhaps the greatest joy possible in Starcraft, being accused of being a maphacker" - Day[9]
Hamster1800
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States175 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 01:44:25
April 29 2009 01:43 GMT
#5
+ Show Spoiler +
If you define the function f(x) (where x is a point on the circle) to be the height at x, then let g(x) = f(x) - f(-x), you can see that g(x) = -g(-x) and it is continuous, so g has to be 0 at some point (by the intermediate value theorem). This can be generalized to a sphere mapping onto two dimensions (for example the temperature and pressure at a point of the earth) and is a well known result in algebraic topology.
D is for Diamond, E is for Everything Else
JeeJee
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Canada5652 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 03:12:22
April 29 2009 02:54 GMT
#6
aha
finally a puzzle i haven't seen before on the net
anyway, here's my solution
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


red dot is the proof.

actually this is just like that monk problem with the mountain 9am and 12noon going up and down stuff. so i suppose i have seen this before.
put the sol'n back in drawing form i guess if some haven't seen the monk riddle
let A start in green and B start in blue. those 2 paths are arbitrary paths they follow around half of the circle, always remaining opposite. as the red dot shows at some point the paths are same height.

dammit evan give me puzzles i haven't seen before !

(\o/)  If you want it, you find a way. Otherwise you find excuses. No exceptions.
 /_\   aka Shinbi (requesting a name change since 27/05/09 ☺)
igotmyown
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4291 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 03:14:43
April 29 2009 03:12 GMT
#7
+ Show Spoiler +

Let h(t)=the height of the circle at angle t (pick an arbitary point as 0). h(t) is continuous. i(t)=h(t+pi) is continuous. j(t)=i(t)-h(t) is continous. j(t)=j(t+2*pi). There exists t1, t2 in [0,2*pi) such that j(t1)>=0 and j(t2)<=0. Therefore there exists t3 in [t1,t2] or [t2,t1] such that j(t3)=0.


I like hamsters, along with any answer that references algebraic topology.
ninjafetus
Profile Joined December 2008
United States231 Posts
April 29 2009 03:31 GMT
#8
+ Show Spoiler +
Hamster1800 has the solution. For a number of the others, even if you show that the same height is reached at some point, you still haven't shown that your pair of points is at opposite ends of the projected circle.
Everywhere
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States97 Posts
April 29 2009 03:32 GMT
#9
On April 29 2009 11:54 JeeJee wrote:
aha
finally a puzzle i haven't seen before on the net
anyway, here's my solution
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


red dot is the proof.

actually this is just like that monk problem with the mountain 9am and 12noon going up and down stuff. so i suppose i have seen this before.
put the sol'n back in drawing form i guess if some haven't seen the monk riddle
let A start in green and B start in blue. those 2 paths are arbitrary paths they follow around half of the circle, always remaining opposite. as the red dot shows at some point the paths are same height.

dammit evan give me puzzles i haven't seen before !



this. the monk problem also came to my mind as soon as i read this lol
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 05:57:00
April 29 2009 05:54 GMT
#10
+ Show Spoiler +

Since "viewed from above it's a circle", can define a function t:[0, 2pi] -> R which represents the height of the track at each angle, which should be a continuous function. t(0) = t(2pi)

Define f:[0, pi] -> R by f(x) = t(pi + x) - t(x), which is a continuous function as well. Notice f(0) = -f(pi)
if f(0) = 0, done, otherwise can apply intermediate value theorem which says there is a y in (0, pi) such that f(y) = 0.
At this angle and the point opposite of it on the circle, the heights will be the same, since t(pi + y) - t(y) = 0
thus t(pi + y) = t(y).
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States557 Posts
April 29 2009 10:09 GMT
#11
Bursak-Ulam much?
starleague.mit.edu
BottleAbuser
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)1888 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 12:33:05
April 29 2009 12:32 GMT
#12
Shit me. I misunderstood the question.
Compilers are like boyfriends, you miss a period and they go crazy on you.
edahl
Profile Joined February 2008
Norway483 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 13:14:04
April 29 2009 13:07 GMT
#13
+ Show Spoiler +
uhm, if s=cos(s8pi)/cos(8pi), then t=(cos(s8pi)/cos(8pi) should be the same height. Then, it would be opposite of t=s+pi, though I might just be way off. Already had a math exam today, so I don't expect to be right *phuuw*


EDIT: BTW, I liked the "pure math" nature of the puzzle. Ants and strings are confusing :-P
Klockan3
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Sweden2866 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 13:59:36
April 29 2009 13:53 GMT
#14
You guys are all wrong!


+ Show Spoiler +

It nowhere says that the race track must be continuous, I construct my race track as
f(µ)=µ
0=<µ<2pi
The jump makes it a lot more interesting.


Chromyne
Profile Joined January 2008
Canada561 Posts
April 29 2009 16:07 GMT
#15
On April 29 2009 22:53 Klockan3 wrote:
You guys are all wrong!


+ Show Spoiler +

It nowhere says that the race track must be continuous, I construct my race track as
f(µ)=µ
0=<µ<2pi
The jump makes it a lot more interesting.




I was going to disagree with you, but
+ Show Spoiler +
I believe a track by definition doesn't need to complete a circuit. However, if this is true, then the problem is unsolvable because you can just make a helix type track. Therefore, I believe it is to be assumed that the track forms a compelte circuit, and the solution is just using IVT.
Soli Deo gloria.
Klockan3
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Sweden2866 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-29 16:34:36
April 29 2009 16:33 GMT
#16
On April 30 2009 01:07 Chromyne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2009 22:53 Klockan3 wrote:
You guys are all wrong!


+ Show Spoiler +

It nowhere says that the race track must be continuous, I construct my race track as
f(µ)=µ
0=<µ<2pi
The jump makes it a lot more interesting.




I was going to disagree with you, but
+ Show Spoiler +
I believe a track by definition doesn't need to complete a circuit. However, if this is true, then the problem is unsolvable because you can just make a helix type track. Therefore, I believe it is to be assumed that the track forms a compelte circuit, and the solution is just using IVT.

+ Show Spoiler +
No, all that is required to just have it be a defined function on the interval µ=[0,2pi), if you just employ the restriction that it needs to be continious you can still get into the problem where it have multiple values at the same angle.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
08:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #21
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 215
ViBE145
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2725
GuemChi 1308
Artosis 653
ProTech162
Aegong 42
Force[name] 4
Dota 2
monkeys_forever479
NeuroSwarm194
LuMiX0
League of Legends
Doublelift4799
JimRising 643
Counter-Strike
summit1g9748
taco 519
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1085
Other Games
PiGStarcraft288
C9.Mang0251
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick974
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 100
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 10
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo541
Other Games
• Shiphtur47
Upcoming Events
KCM Race Survival
6h 59m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
7h 59m
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
OSC
18h 59m
WardiTV Invitational
1d 8h
GSL
1d 8h
Epic.LAN
1d 9h
Replay Cast
1d 19h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Epic.LAN
2 days
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
[ Show More ]
Yamato Cup
3 days
Map Test Tournament
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.