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I saw a shield battery let one dragoon hold off like 20 marines once
haha, he's talking about the Tempest vs. LighT game. Intense game.
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I do know Starcraft. Do I play often? No. Thanks to Nick "Tasteless" Plot", I know everything there is to know about Starcraft. He just exlains everything in a very cool fashion.
no offense Tasteless, but LOL
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On April 14 2009 13:26 paper wrote:
o shi-
ghosts > muta?!?!?
Ya man, you could lockdown them
or nuke them
also you can cloak and hide from them
Edit: tbh though their quality level of posting on that forum is pretty impressive, despite the fact that most of them know nothing about the game.
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i feel stupider reading that stuff. but that's what you get when you have super amateurs who dont really know sc try to talk about it like they do
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Building Scout "Victory Fleets" was a common occurence back in early Broodwar, but when Missile Turrets got a cost decrease and people began to realize just how middling the Scout was for cost, it stopped being used. While excellent as a harasser and one of the best air-to-air fighters in Starcraft (You will find nothing better for busting Carriers/Battlecruisers, save for Wraiths, who Scouts will consistently out-gun). Smart players use them to cruise about and Scout for outlying enemy positions, striking enemy aircraft formations, and strafing unprotected ground units. The fact that the Wraith is one of the beefiest low-tier aircraft in the game goes a long way.
Scouts are for scouting.
Several issues with the above. Ghosts are formidable (and are easily a major advantage Terrans have), but they deal only middling damage and there's ways around them even on air-dominated maps.
Holy shit. TvZ revolution!
Okay seriously... Ghosts are the fucking best unit in the game. They beat EVERYTHING. Why don't we see them more. :\
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I don't know if I can handle any more innovation arguments from the Relic fanbase so I'm afraid of going to this link
After Reading: Was expecting a blind blizzard hate thread, wasn't so bad 
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On April 14 2009 13:31 LeperKahn wrote:Show nested quote +Building Scout "Victory Fleets" was a common occurence back in early Broodwar, but when Missile Turrets got a cost decrease and people began to realize just how middling the Scout was for cost, it stopped being used. While excellent as a harasser and one of the best air-to-air fighters in Starcraft (You will find nothing better for busting Carriers/Battlecruisers, save for Wraiths, who Scouts will consistently out-gun). Smart players use them to cruise about and Scout for outlying enemy positions, striking enemy aircraft formations, and strafing unprotected ground units. The fact that the Wraith is one of the beefiest low-tier aircraft in the game goes a long way. Scouts are for scouting.
Scouts are for HUMILIATION!
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People seem to hate us... 
and Starcraft...
and everything related to it...
...at least the game is fun 
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Naw. The posts aren't that hateful... We're just misunderstood. ;p
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Reading this hurt my brain.
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lawl... I love when complete utter noobs try to theorycraft, it's hilarious.
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On April 14 2009 13:28 Realpenguin wrote:Show nested quote +I do know Starcraft. Do I play often? No. Thanks to Nick "Tasteless" Plot", I know everything there is to know about Starcraft. He just exlains everything in a very cool fashion. no offense Tasteless, but LOL
What's funny is that tasteless himself wouldn't say he knows everything about sc, let alone some dude who watched a few vods with tasteless commentating.
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51373 Posts
On April 14 2009 13:50 Alphonsse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2009 13:28 Realpenguin wrote:I do know Starcraft. Do I play often? No. Thanks to Nick "Tasteless" Plot", I know everything there is to know about Starcraft. He just exlains everything in a very cool fashion. no offense Tasteless, but LOL What's funny is that tasteless himself wouldn't say he knows everything about sc, let alone some dude who watched a few vods with tasteless commentating.
might as well say that every korean who has watched a game of starcraft knows everything about the game as well
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On April 14 2009 13:29 29 fps wrote:
i feel stupider reading that stuff. but that's what you get when you have super amateurs who dont really know sc try to talk about it like they do
OMG Their grammar must have gotten to you as well!!!!!
Quickly, go iCCup for 6 hours straight to put yourself back on track!
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United States1654 Posts
You know, ghosts really do rape mutalisk. If you ever play a muta micro map with ghosts on it, your mutas just melt. But they're way too expensive and suck against everything else to be useful in a normal TvZ I guess.
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On April 14 2009 14:15 Sigrun wrote:You know, ghosts really do rape mutalisk. If you ever play a muta micro map with ghosts on it, your mutas just melt. But they're way too expensive and suck against everything else to be useful in a normal TvZ I guess.
Plus it's not very common for Zergs to go mass mutalisk late game by the time you have ghosts anyway =/
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lol @ the guy citing tasteless... must be protoss user imo
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All i can say is that my head hurts from facepalming so much while i read that.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On April 14 2009 14:15 Sigrun wrote:You know, ghosts really do rape mutalisk. If you ever play a muta micro map with ghosts on it, your mutas just melt. But they're way too expensive and suck against everything else to be useful in a normal TvZ I guess.
I never knew that. But by the time you have ghost, one irradiate is gonna own those mutalisk anyways.
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It seems like they basically just took the counters and strategies from the playing guide you get with the Battlechest and posted them online.
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Only people who feel threatened by something feel the need to express themselves in physical form to make sure they can convince themselves that what they have is better.
By better, I mean they were able to pick up DoW2 faster and compete and not so much in SC:BW.
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They use the word "poopie" a lot, any reason for this?
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On April 14 2009 14:44 Avidkeystamper wrote:
They use the word "poopie" a lot, any reason for this?
saying "shit" sends you to hell obv...
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"Queens are used, but they're a tech-heavy support unit and they fly, which has reduced the desire for them. Their main advantage is ensare, but Broodling kills high-profile units that the Zerg have trouble with, like Ultralisks, Siege Tanks, and Archons. They are also useful for harassment. Unfortunately, Broodlings cost a lot and take a poopieton of power to use, which is the main problem with them. Parasite is incredibly useful but extremely exploitable; a smart player who notices a unit of his is parasited can set things up so that you see only what he wants you to, while Terran players can cure it entirely. The big reason players use Queens is Ensnare, which is a cheap cloak counter. In general, the Queens are too expensive and tech-heavy to make heavy use of; many players would usually simply overwhelm foes."
I gigglesnorted =)
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On April 14 2009 14:49 Motiva wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2009 14:44 Avidkeystamper wrote:
They use the word "poopie" a lot, any reason for this? saying "shit" sends you to hell obv...
Possibly a filter that changes shit to poopie? I used to post on a forum that changed fuck to fudge and damn to spoon.
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yer it filters shit to poopie and fucking to fruiting or something :/
Yeah that read was a bit of a waste of time. Some of it was amusing but most of it has been quoted here :3
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On April 14 2009 14:56 404.Delirium wrote:
"Queens are used, but they're a tech-heavy support unit and they fly, which has reduced the desire for them. Their main advantage is ensare, but Broodling kills high-profile units that the Zerg have trouble with, like Ultralisks, Siege Tanks, and Archons. They are also useful for harassment. Unfortunately, Broodlings cost a lot and take a poopieton of power to use, which is the main problem with them. Parasite is incredibly useful but extremely exploitable; a smart player who notices a unit of his is parasited can set things up so that you see only what he wants you to, while Terran players can cure it entirely. The big reason players use Queens is Ensnare, which is a cheap cloak counter. In general, the Queens are too expensive and tech-heavy to make heavy use of; many players would usually simply overwhelm foes."
I gigglesnorted =)
broodlings dont work vs archons.
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i find The DoW community to be very funny. although the game bored the crap outta me
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who really cares what some 15 year old nerdgins with an anime avatars think?
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These guys aren't too bad at all, they're just clueless.
I mean, the OPs point that some units being useless in most situations is a pretty valid one. Take ZvZ for instance. Almost ALL the units in the zerg arsenal become useless in this matchup. You pretty much have no alternative than to go zerglings and then mutas, and is that really what we want in a game?
It's just that whenever they try to support their claims they reveil how little they actually know about the game. Clearly the only form of Starcraft many of these people have experienced is FMP FFAs, where mutas are not exactly your biggest worry.
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1 game out of how many zvz's that have been played?
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Northern Ireland22207 Posts
They obviously been reading the starcraft compendium too much
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i forgot, three was a korean game on RoV, where T massed ghosts....
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"Such as using Dropships vs zerg. only saw it one time. it was great by the way. droped M&M in base killed key buildings game over. Close game great watch. That is why I stopped watching them"
lol
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On April 14 2009 14:56 404.Delirium wrote:
"Queens are used, but they're a tech-heavy support unit and they fly, which has reduced the desire for them. Their main advantage is ensare, but Broodling kills high-profile units that the Zerg have trouble with, like Ultralisks, Siege Tanks, and Archons. They are also useful for harassment. Unfortunately, Broodlings cost a lot and take a poopieton of power to use, which is the main problem with them. Parasite is incredibly useful but extremely exploitable; a smart player who notices a unit of his is parasited can set things up so that you see only what he wants you to, while Terran players can cure it entirely. The big reason players use Queens is Ensnare, which is a cheap cloak counter. In general, the Queens are too expensive and tech-heavy to make heavy use of; many players would usually simply overwhelm foes."
I gigglesnorted =)
Seriously. What in this post is wrong?
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Broodlings don't do jack to Chons.
Ensare is the shit. I wish zergies would use it more =[
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On April 14 2009 21:45 YPang wrote:
i forgot, three was a korean game on RoV, where T massed ghosts....
Which one was that? I wanna see.
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Well yeah it's funny when noobs talk about a game like that and it's clear that they have no idea how one has to play or how most players play, but opinions like these can also (indirectly) reveal issues that might be easily overlooked by veteran players, and especially fanatics.
For example you see that "interesting", micro-intensive units like ghosts or queens are often mentioned when noobs talk because they think they rock or should be used a lot.
Thus, the veteran player will just laugh at the noobs who don't know how the game MUST be played or how most players do in fact play the game, and he's right in that regard.
However, the real problem is that the units or abilities the noobs are talking about were actually designed in the hope of being useful (otherwise they wouldn't be in the game...), and the noobs do pretty much know what they can theoretically be used for.
They just don't know that when playing the game on a decent level, you simply can't use some units or abilities at all because they're either too hard to use, not worth the cost, or bad for other reasons, but these reasons are all kind of interconnected... for example the best Zerg in the world who plays like 10+ hours a day, Jaedong, once said in an interview that queen usage (in ZvT) is very hard. So basically you have this monster of a player admitting that he can't use one unit type at all (in most games). Which means this unit type effectively doesn't exist for all other players in the world, because if it's too hard for him, then it's impossible for all others.
And so, in effect, it's not worth buying queens, so you could say "the unit is too weak for its resource cost", but you could just as well say "the game is too fast for humans to handle queens properly *in addition* to all the other elementary stuff" or more simply "queens aren't balanced well" -- so I wouldn't see anything wrong when mentioning these balance issues within the game. These balance issues do not have an effect on the game when humans play, but it's clear that the game isn't perfectly balanced, otherwise there wouldn't be such a thing like *completely* unimportant units.
One could of course make similar cases with ghost and lockdown etc... which is mostly used for fun e.g. when Boxer is playing to make a show, but the current best Terrans never use them, and we all know why. Except maybe when they already have a ridiculously large advantage and they can afford spending resources for "fun" units.
So as a result, one can call SC balanced, but only for the small subset of the game which is actually used (can be used) in practice.
The rest can't be used, and can thus be called "imba" (i.e. that it's not worth at all to bother using it), and that's actually a shame.
That said, there also was a lot of utter bullshit in that thread.
But the particular case above shows that the different angle from which noobs look at the game can sometimes reveal underlying general problems which real players ignore.
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On April 14 2009 14:56 404.Delirium wrote:
"Queens are used, but they're a tech-heavy support unit and they fly, which has reduced the desire for them. Their main advantage is ensare, but Broodling kills high-profile units that the Zerg have trouble with, like Ultralisks, Siege Tanks, and Archons. They are also useful for harassment. Unfortunately, Broodlings cost a lot and take a poopieton of power to use, which is the main problem with them. Parasite is incredibly useful but extremely exploitable; a smart player who notices a unit of his is parasited can set things up so that you see only what he wants you to, while Terran players can cure it entirely. The big reason players use Queens is Ensnare, which is a cheap cloak counter. In general, the Queens are too expensive and tech-heavy to make heavy use of; many players would usually simply overwhelm foes."
I gigglesnorted =)
Am I the only person who noticed this? POOPIETON?! SERIOUSLY??? Fuck that's the funniest word ever.
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On April 15 2009 04:46 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2009 14:56 404.Delirium wrote:
"Queens are used, but they're a tech-heavy support unit and they fly, which has reduced the desire for them. Their main advantage is ensare, but Broodling kills high-profile units that the Zerg have trouble with, like Ultralisks, Siege Tanks, and Archons. They are also useful for harassment. Unfortunately, Broodlings cost a lot and take a poopieton of power to use, which is the main problem with them. Parasite is incredibly useful but extremely exploitable; a smart player who notices a unit of his is parasited can set things up so that you see only what he wants you to, while Terran players can cure it entirely. The big reason players use Queens is Ensnare, which is a cheap cloak counter. In general, the Queens are too expensive and tech-heavy to make heavy use of; many players would usually simply overwhelm foes."
I gigglesnorted =) Am I the only person who noticed this? POOPIETON?! SERIOUSLY??? Fuck that's the funniest word ever.
They have a word filter in place.
Shit = Poopie
Fuck = Fruit
Relic = Reric (no idea why on this one)
Bitch = Great Dog (I think)
There are probably more, but those are the ones that come to mind first.
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On April 14 2009 14:15 Sigrun wrote:You know, ghosts really do rape mutalisk. If you ever play a muta micro map with ghosts on it, your mutas just melt. But they're way too expensive and suck against everything else to be useful in a normal TvZ I guess.
Yea, this is correct. the quote though is off, should be that ghosts do 'concussive' damage and mutas have 'small' unit size. Also, ghosts in bunkers have range of guardians. GG Mutas!
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ahhh...i'm from the Sanc, quite a few of us browse here
Hell, the Sanc got so fed up with DoW2 that they actually made a forum to host a SC tourny. A lot of the more smarter players don't play any more so they don't visit the site, which has led to an influx of bored and stupid posts :[
it's a great site though, all since DoW it's housed the best players with the best of everything, but as each expansion was released, more and more failure arrived and DoW2 just completely dashed all hope for a good DoW game :[
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"Starcraft = luck bullpoopie these days but it is balanced same as poker is.
Also koreans kinda sux cause this game requires no skill anymore its just mashing buttons @ 400 apm and do the same poopie over and over again but better.
Game was 1000x better in the old days than its now imo."
This guy starts of with an interesting comment comparing sc to poker, but then made me sigh so hard. But kinda made it up, because old day, low-apm sc had its charm.
They know more about sc then we know about dow2
EDIT: There should be a filter on tl.net also, bullpoopie/poopieton, cmon, thats gold.
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On April 22 2009 06:50 Gnojfatelob wrote:
"Starcraft = luck bullpoopie these days but it is balanced same as poker is.
Also koreans kinda sux cause this game requires no skill anymore its just mashing buttons @ 400 apm and do the same poopie over and over again but better.
Game was 1000x better in the old days than its now imo."
I cried when read that[on the DoW forums]. " No skill any more, just mashing buttons @ 400 APM " ...
Retards. lol
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i don't get that luck argument, how many random factors are there in a normal starcraft match anyways? hit/miss when shooting up a ramp?
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United States47024 Posts
On April 14 2009 16:25 prOxi.Beater wrote:
I mean, the OPs point that some units being useless in most situations is a pretty valid one. Take ZvZ for instance. Almost ALL the units in the zerg arsenal become useless in this matchup. You pretty much have no alternative than to go zerglings and then mutas, and is that really what we want in a game?
Its variation. It would be bad if every matchup only used a tiny subset of the units, but it would be equally bad if every matchup required every unit. The different unit requirements of each matchup feed into the variety and what makes the game interesting.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 15 2009 02:01 0xDEADBEEF wrote:
So as a result, one can call SC balanced, but only for the small subset of the game which is actually used (can be used) in practice.
The rest can't be used, and can thus be called "imba" (i.e. that it's not worth at all to bother using it), and that's actually a shame.
How many units/abilities really fit into that category though? Off the top of my head, the units and abilities that aren't used commonly are:
Ghosts/Nukes
Battlecruisers
Restoration/Optic Flare Abilities (Medic)
Queens
Devourers
Hallucination Ability (High Templar)
Scouts
Dark Archons
IMO queens are a pretty small exception where the unit isn't underpowered, but just too hard to use. Scouts, Devourers, and Battlecruisers, for example, aren't underused because they're hard to use, but simply because other units can fill the same role at a much lower cost. While Queens are fast, fragile, and have hard-to-manage abilities, the same can't be said of, say, the Scout, which is slow, has lots of HP, and no abilities. It's just not cost-effective, there's no other way of saying it. The same arguably holds true of almost every unit on this list except for Queens and Dark Archons.
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man, i used to see bc's in tvt so regularly :[ i miss them.
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On April 14 2009 14:15 Sigrun wrote:You know, ghosts really do rape mutalisk. If you ever play a muta micro map with ghosts on it, your mutas just melt. But they're way too expensive and suck against everything else to be useful in a normal TvZ I guess.
I was just going to say that =P its very true
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On April 14 2009 13:21 Phyre wrote:
the DoW equivalent of TL
This place basically houses the best players of almost all non-blizzard RTS's:
http://www.gamereplays.org/portals.php
Not that it have anything to do with the topic, just wanted to point it out, and even though the relic boards keeps a lower standard than the site overall I would be surprised if any relic site is actually more hardcore.
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On April 22 2009 06:50 Gnojfatelob wrote:
There should be a filter on tl.net also, bullpoopie/poopieton, cmon, thats gold.
Hm, it would make a good April Fools joke on here. That's for sure!
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On April 14 2009 14:05 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2009 13:50 Alphonsse wrote:On April 14 2009 13:28 Realpenguin wrote:I do know Starcraft. Do I play often? No. Thanks to Nick "Tasteless" Plot", I know everything there is to know about Starcraft. He just exlains everything in a very cool fashion. no offense Tasteless, but LOL What's funny is that tasteless himself wouldn't say he knows everything about sc, let alone some dude who watched a few vods with tasteless commentating. might as well say that every korean who has watched a game of starcraft knows everything about the game as well
maybe it wasn't meant to be taken completely literally?
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On April 23 2009 06:31 Klockan3 wrote:This place basically houses the best players of almost all non-blizzard RTS's: http://www.gamereplays.org/portals.phpNot that it have anything to do with the topic, just wanted to point it out, and even though the relic boards keeps a lower standard than the site overall I would be surprised if any relic site is actually more hardcore.
My understanding is that Agesanctuary and Dowsanctuary are respectively the 'TL's' of their communities. I'm pretty sure Gamereplays was still Cncreplays when DoW was first released. While I'm prepared to grant EA RTS's to gamereplays, I'm not so sure about CoH, SupCom etc. I'm pretty certain the TW series has it's own community too.
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On April 22 2009 03:45 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2009 14:15 Sigrun wrote:You know, ghosts really do rape mutalisk. If you ever play a muta micro map with ghosts on it, your mutas just melt. But they're way too expensive and suck against everything else to be useful in a normal TvZ I guess. Yea, this is correct. the quote though is off, should be that ghosts do 'concussive' damage and mutas have 'small' unit size. Also, ghosts in bunkers have range of guardians. GG Mutas!
Oh sh.t isn't that worth mentionning once again ? I mean sometimes i see some z that goes guardians... Could be really usefull to put bunk and ghost in in every base. Sure it cost more than a wraith but by the time the Z have guards the T usually have a lot of rax and can scout the greater spire and react accordingly right ? It could be a good surprise for the Z and he will probably goes "hack hack hack wtf ?" :D
The only con i could see though is ghosts takes time to get out of the rax...
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SC has become too difficult for it to require skill.
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EPT
