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I have always wondered whether or not it would be possible to play ZvT like contemporary ZvP. By that I mean the following:
First, you do a hydra speed/range build off 3 hatch and pump hydras (and try to hide tech). Maybe add evos for early ups. Then, after 18 hydra or so, stop hydra and go lair/make lings. When Terran sees you have hydra they will try to go contain your base because they assume you are going lurkers, or because they assume that mnm > hydra. A good flank by 18 or so hydras will rape the shit out of a small to mid size mnm group. Simply wait for them to come get you, then flank.
Now that terran sees your getting mass hydra, his natural inclination is to two fact push. What he doesn't know is that you are swapping to muta harass at this point. He may assume the spire is just for scourge or something, but in reality it is delayed mutalisk harass. The switch to two fact combined with the loss of the mnm squad, as well as the weird timing, will at the very least cause some damage and force terran to wait in his base until he has a large enough mnm group, further delaying his push. During this time, hopefully Z has been expanding (as he should have a lot of minerals) to the point where either he can swap to guardian+hydra or ultras or defiler/lurker or w/e.
Just random thoughts wondering if this could work.
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From personal experiences:
early evos + quick hydraspeed than range could work... could... but not against everything. With a good timing it could crush the 14 CC, owns the fast dropship builds. And you have to have really good hydramicro. I've been testing a bit hydras against bio lately, with hydra-lurker followup. One thing why it aint working is that d/c- Terrans allin really often, meaning a lot of mnm out of one base , or even sg stupid like pushing out with only marines + a lot of scvs to throw your timing off...
If you go hydras you really have to abuse your mobility, flank, retreat, backstab, and dont forget to go hydra-lurk followup, drops recommended
edit: dont try it where the natural is hard to attack
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I'm thinking SK terran. Hydras have been inpopular in ZvT for good reason. Hydras vs MnM is so weak I don't know where to begin.
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On April 03 2009 23:40 KaasZerg wrote:
I'm thinking SK terran. Hydras have been inpopular in ZvT for good reason. Hydras vs MnM is so weak I don't know where to begin.
Hydras are actually very strong vs. mnm in two instances:
a) when the marine count is 12 or less
b) when the hydra count is 40 or more
obviously the hydras have to be positioned semi-well.
a large amount of hydras will rape a large amount of marines very easily. See July vs. Goodfriend.
As for SK Terran, plague + hydras is deadly.
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Questions:
- How can you flank a terran that is containing you?
- How can you do any damage against a terran with irradiate? All he has to do is push your base and you will die.
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On April 03 2009 23:59 Zoler wrote:
Questions:
- How can you flank a terran that is containing you?
- How can you do any damage against a terran with irradiate? All he has to do is push your base and you will die.
If you let terran contain you the game is pretty much already over anyways. That applies regardless of strategy. What I would usually do is get a group or two of hydras and just run about the map. If I see a terran push coming, then I flank with those hydras as well as the hydra-ling that I am spamming in my base.
However, like I said, you abuse the mobility of the hydras to flank with more ease. If the mnm try to run away they will be cut down, unlike with lurkers and lings. Thus, flanks would be far more damaging.
How would you do any damage with any other build against a terran with irradiate? If anything, I'd rather he irradiate a 75/25 hydra than a 200/200 ultra or a 50/150 defiler.
How does any of this have anything to do with my thoughts anyways, they apply to all zerg builds, regardless of whether or not they involve hydras, or in my case a hydra--> muta switch.
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This seems to make sense, but the build is probably rather weak to a terran who doesn't go pure HARDCORE SK and gets two facts for tanks. (and obviously is weak against mech)
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Just the thing is, Hydras cost a ton in comparsion to mnm, mnm get healed, and mnm have a far greater DPS in addition to better mobility. Pure hydras are quite useless against mnm in decent numbers. Of course you'll be able to destroy his army if it is like half the size of yours, but that goes for just about every unit in the game. You seriously need some Lurkers to accompany your Hydras or they will be utterly useless. When they get tanks your mass hydra will totally melt. 9 mutas(that you don't have the resources for) won't do shit against like 40 mnm and will just die.
Hydras vs mnm are only adviced as a part of the hydralurk combo as a counter against SK Terran. But in that case as well, the hydras are mostly for shielding for lurkers and killing the vessels, although they can deal quite a bit of damage to retreating mnm.
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On April 04 2009 01:12 Shikyo wrote:
Just the thing is, Hydras cost a ton in comparsion to mnm, mnm get healed, and mnm have a far greater DPS in addition to better mobility. Pure hydras are quite useless against mnm in decent numbers. Of course you'll be able to destroy his army if it is like half the size of yours, but that goes for just about every unit in the game. You seriously need some Lurkers to accompany your Hydras or they will be utterly useless. When they get tanks your mass hydra will totally melt. 9 mutas(that you don't have the resources for) won't do shit against like 40 mnm and will just die.
Hydras vs mnm are only adviced as a part of the hydralurk combo as a counter against SK Terran. But in that case as well, the hydras are mostly for shielding for lurkers and killing the vessels, although they can deal quite a bit of damage to retreating mnm.
You rarely (if ever) want to engage the Terran ball heads up as zerg, regardless of army choice. The purpose of the hydra is to be mobile.
The mentality is,
Mass tank counters hydra
mass marine counters muta
With your first hydra flank (because they anticipate lurkers) their mnm count will be failrly low. Becuase they see hydra, they'll add another fac and as a result have lower marine count. Then you can take advantage of the low count through muta harass, forcing terran to turtle in his base. In the menatime you should pwoer expand and by the time terran can finally push you'll have enough shit to overwhelm him.
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I remember a replay of yellow vs some terran on the map guillotine, where yellow only go mass hydra/ling and wins.
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EPT
