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I took Micronesia's advice and practiced another build, but on the same tech branch, instead of one from the other tech branches. 3 Gate Goon to expo is exactly the same build as the goon reaver build I detailed in a previous blog entry, up to the point where your Robo finishes:
8 - Pylon
10 - Gate
11 - Assim
13 - Zealot
15 - Pylon
17 - Core
18 - Zealot
22 - Pylon
23 - Goon
26 - Range
27 - Goon
30 - Robo
31 - Gateway and cut probe production
31 - Goon
33 - Pylon
34 - Goon
36 - Goon
It's interesting to note that I can write that beginning out from memory now. At this point, your robo is finishing, and rather than build a shuttle, you immediately build an observatory and another gateway:
38 - Observatory
38 - Gateway
40 - Pylon
Now it's just a matter of pumping goons, expanding at the right time and defending against any harassment. Since this build is similar to the other one I spent so much time memorizing, it only took me about two games to memorize it exactly, and then I started playing some games with it on ICCup. I went 2-2 so far with this build. I beat a D+ player with it, which I would not have done a couple weeks ago, and I lost another one because I allowed his reaver to kill almost all my probes.
I'm going to try different timings to expand. I'll start by playing several games where I expand at a specific supply, and then adjust. I also need to work on defending harass. I think the easiest way to avoid drops will be to see them coming, so I'll also work on some way to know when that drop is on the way, via well placed buildings, or several obs, or something.
 
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United States24753 Posts
I should stop advising you; you can probably hold your own in pvp now XD
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Good luck, keep trying!
Take it step by step then expand to different strats, different MUs, then learn to adapt and you will be at least C by then.
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with all the new threads about getting past a certain rank etc, really makes me want to play on iccup again.
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has anyone make breaking A yet? I would like to start one
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I find your opening BO a bit wierd. I mean, I have never seen anyone build assim and then a pylon imediately. Most build their pylon on 16 after getting 11-12 gas :S. Am I missing something incredibly obvious here?
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Pylon was supposed to be at 15, not 12, my bad.
KnickKnack, why are you so astounded? I was supposed to use your guide or else you're upset?  I saw your post. I think Assim on 16 is too late. I didn't have enough gas when I did that.
8pylon, 10gate, 12pylon, 13zealot, 16assim, 17core, 18zealot, 22pylon, 23goon, 26range, 27goon, 30pylon, 31gate, 32goon, 35robo, 36two goons, 40pylon, 41gateway, 42observetory & pylon, two goons, then units/pylons as fits. Expo ~7:00.
I don't like your robo at 35. I do it earlier to be a little more safe.
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United States24753 Posts
This reminds me...
Is 8 pylon 10 gate 12 gas actually outdated on more standard maps like python, or is that pylon before assim build just a preference?
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i usually make pylon after assim and make a lot as soon as i can just to be on the safe side.
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Yes, it is pretty astounding if you read my guide that you would still make this post the way you did. But it just shows you don't have much understanding. Oh well, that happens sometimes.
You know what you could have done though? Rather than saying 'i dont like this' you could have asked someone that is clearly more experienced their reasons for doing certain things. Oh well.
12assim is not at all outdated. There are advantages and disadvantages to everything.
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Another big part of defending harass is to quickly move probes away. Popular methods include hotkeying all of them to something you don't use (7/8/9/0 depending on your setup) and F2-F3 to move all of your probes away.
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KnickKnack, if you weren't dropping into the thread and immediately posting "ZOMG ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS I ALREADY TOLD YOU HOW TO PLAY PVP" then maybe I would have asked you for advice. I have no idea how much experience you have, you never mentioned any.
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On April 01 2009 06:54 Knickknack wrote:
Yes, it is pretty astounding if you read my guide that you would still make this post the way you did. But it just shows you don't have much understanding. Oh well, that happens sometimes.
You know what you could have done though? Rather than saying 'i dont like this' you could have asked someone that is clearly more experienced their reasons for doing certain things. Oh well.
12assim is not at all outdated. There are advantages and disadvantages to everything.
w t f, are you being serious? do you know loophole on some intimate level and this is just sarcasm/joke? I hope so. If not, get a clue please.
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Sigh...I don't really care to respond, but I don't want to just let that hang.
First, clearly you are overreacting. But sure, I agree that my first post can be seen as slightly hostile, but mostly in the sense that it states your lack of understanding of what I wrote. Should I have handed that with more care? Maybe, but that is all I wanted to post until you responded. You 'saw' my guide, but now I doubt that you even read it or thought it over. Overall it is clear who is more hostile here.
As for the 'clearly' in the more experienced part could make an inference based on obvious things like post count, but more to the point is being able to understand the actual content of what I have written on the topic, and stuff i have written before. But, the problem is these things do not seem clear to you. Not surprising now though. Like I said, oh well. I am making money teaching people to play, but I would have been willing to help you a bit for nothing.
Lumberjack...I don't understand what you are going on about.
Yaqoob i dont disagree with what you typed regarding me, thats not the point.
Last post here.
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I prefer to go 10 gate 11 pylon 13 zeal 16 assim 18 core 19 zeal
I go 12 assim if I scout them first or I know there going to core first or something or its a bad map for 2 gate.
@ Knicknack
Are you saying because you have more posts @ TL that you are more experienced? That is one of the dumbest things I've heard. I could understand it (maybe...) if you had like 3000+ posts but you barely have 1000. That is the saddest argument ever.
Hey, I have xxxx number of posts and my post count > yours so therefore me > you in understanding of SC.
Also, I've watched lots of PvP's from progamers and sometimes they'll cut probes at different times or get a robo at different times or make a zeal here and there. Its not like their is one perfect build or only one way to do 3 gate goon /w robo into expo.
Its not like your guides are 100% correct and the only way to do certain builds.
Loophole, just experiment and do what you like and feel comfortable with. Just find a replay of a player you like be it Bisu/Stork/Jangbi/Draco/JF/Nony and just copy that build and adjust when needed.
Good Luck @ getting C and above 
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United States43528 Posts
The assim first is standard on most maps these days (although most maps don't favour 2 gate at all) because the extra gas allows for immediate range and fast robo, even if 2 gate gooning.
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30 robo is way too early imo. That's only necessary if you have no idea what the guy is making because you couldn't scout.
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lol @ pvp at the D ranks
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I don't think 3 gate goon is that effective because most protoss's go for reavers(maybe?) and Reavers will more then even out the disadvantage of lack of third gateway. I like 4 gate all-ins better Especially when you know your opponent isn't going for a dt rush
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D rank PvP is where it's at!
@Knickknack I'm not really feeling up for an argument about who's more hostile. Thanks for all your help, really. You've been a wonderful mentor and role model.
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It really doesn't matter to me either way, but I'd advise that you listen to KnickKnack or at least hear out what he has to say, he is most likely going to give you better PvP advice than anyone else you could be listening to now; especially if it's Micronesia! Yuck!
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United States24753 Posts
On April 02 2009 00:48 Salv wrote:
It really doesn't matter to me either way, but I'd advise that you listen to KnickKnack or at least hear out what he has to say, he is most likely going to give you better PvP advice than anyone else you could be listening to now; especially if it's Micronesia! Yuck!
Salv can you refresh my memory on what our pvp record is, career?
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On April 02 2009 00:48 Salv wrote:
It really doesn't matter to me either way, but I'd advise that you listen to KnickKnack or at least hear out what he has to say, he is most likely going to give you better PvP advice than anyone else you could be listening to now; especially if it's Micronesia! Yuck!
Knickknack hasn't offered any advice, other than a link to a post he made, which I had already read. His contribution to this thread was to display his displeasure at how dumb I am for not being an expert PvP player after I read his post.
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On April 02 2009 01:32 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2009 00:48 Salv wrote:
It really doesn't matter to me either way, but I'd advise that you listen to KnickKnack or at least hear out what he has to say, he is most likely going to give you better PvP advice than anyone else you could be listening to now; especially if it's Micronesia! Yuck! Salv can you refresh my memory on what our pvp record is, career?
I haven't kept track, but if you want we can showmatch?
Didn't KnickKnack say that had you asked him about certain things in his guide, or why his guide says to do one thing and not another [referencing to 12pylon, 16assim over 12assim, 16pylon], I think he would have further explained. I think KnickKnack made his post like that because you read what he wrote [his guide] and then just brushed it off without even asking for further elaboration.
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Micronesia is amazing at PvP 
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Salv Vs Micro, BO50 now!!
I understand what you're saying Salv, but I basically brushed him off because I don't respond well to the additude in his first post. I'm human after all, not a SC and programming robot like you all suspected.
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United States24753 Posts
On April 02 2009 05:52 Loophole wrote:
Salv Vs Micro, BO50 now!!
My record vs Salv in pvp is like 3-1... I think that's sufficient.
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It's more like 10-0 Salv
Bo50!
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EPT
