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On March 11 2009 11:45 omninmo wrote: koreans have kimchi (nutritious and cheap) americans have mcdonalds (no nutrional value, cheap).
its funny because americans are just as much slaves to propaganda as they say "pitiful" Nkoreans and Chinese are. american public relations and advertising is the mesmerizing magic that goads you into spending your debt on garbage. professional sports is the new religion that numbs the masses before sleep. "politics" is the marginalizing cleave that keeps everyone simultaneously powerless and diluted to the fact that "their vote counts". and we "pity" poor north korea and their Stalinist regime. americans think they are "free" because they have money to buy whatever they want... that is slavery. i live in "REd China" there are no guns, no drugs. there is no crime. there is no "free press"... that means there is no fearTV. what is the western press? it is "propaganda" and ideology-feeding vomit. in beijing girls hold hands when talking around together. families dont have hummers but they have love. parks are full of elderly people do synchronized taiji and exercising. "oppressed" children go to school 6 days a week and wear uniforms. they dont play 10 hours of video games a day but go to chess and Go practice and learn more in middle school than I did with my "liberal and free" american public education. There are "propaganda" posters like "a prosperous community starts with you" . I havent seen a gun in 5 years. when i visited america last xmas i was nervous the whole time amid obese grazing cows and cops with guns.
I would systematically refute every "point" you tried to make, but you're just going to go on believe what you've been conditioned to believe. I honestly didn't realize there was so much propaganda in China until I read your post.
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All cultures are conditioned by the propaganda that is spewed by their own government.
This goes for both the Americans and the Chinese.
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On March 11 2009 11:45 omninmo wrote: a lot about beijing
What the hell does China have to do with this? You are the only person here talking about China. If you want to argue against the propaganda in North Korea, I suggest actually talking about North Korea.
That being said, the ideas that having money to buy what we [Americans] want is slavery, (Seems like the opposite.) that everyone is both powerless and thinks they are not, (The 2000 presidential election was decided by some 300 votes.) and that western free press is ideology-feeding vomit, (What the hell do you call government controlled press?) are very interesting and, IMO, require significant elaboration.
Also, way to try to sneak in some low blows by combining our supposed hypnotism by advertising with our willingness to go into debt by saying we spend debt, but... you can't spend debt! That doesn't make any fucking sense! The obese cow thing at least wasn't logically flawed, but very uncreative and a little redundant; additionally, if being around fat people makes you nervous, you really do need to escape whatever propaganda has ruined your brain and spend more time at chess practice or whatever. I know some really good fat players.
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On March 11 2009 11:45 omninmo wrote: koreans have kimchi (nutritious and cheap) americans have mcdonalds (no nutrional value, cheap).
its funny because americans are just as much slaves to propaganda as they say "pitiful" Nkoreans and Chinese are. american public relations and advertising is the mesmerizing magic that goads you into spending your debt on garbage. professional sports is the new religion that numbs the masses before sleep. "politics" is the marginalizing cleave that keeps everyone simultaneously powerless and diluted to the fact that "their vote counts". and we "pity" poor north korea and their Stalinist regime. americans think they are "free" because they have money to buy whatever they want... that is slavery. i live in "REd China" there are no guns, no drugs. there is no crime. there is no "free press"... that means there is no fearTV. what is the western press? it is "propaganda" and ideology-feeding vomit. in beijing girls hold hands when talking around together. families dont have hummers but they have love. parks are full of elderly people do synchronized taiji and exercising. "oppressed" children go to school 6 days a week and wear uniforms. they dont play 10 hours of video games a day but go to chess and Go practice and learn more in middle school than I did with my "liberal and free" american public education. There are "propaganda" posters like "a prosperous community starts with you" . I havent seen a gun in 5 years. when i visited america last xmas i was nervous the whole time amid obese grazing cows and cops with guns.
Um, whats your point? You just acknowledged that secluded innocent Communist people full of love are a lot more vulnerable to reality when it hits. If you were scared shitless by merely seeing a gun, then I'd hate to imagine what would happen when China sends its Red Armies to invade. Sure Americans may be exposed to liberalism and the excesses that go with it, but that is why we are constantly putting out the newest technologies and the most creative ways to implement them. Playing Go 10 hours a day will develop a fine logical mind, but playing video games 10 hours a day exposes you to people not in the Go club. It will create opportunities for you to learn a lot of things outside of a Go board. You only have yourself to blame for the failure of your "liberal and free" american public education. By definition, liberalism means you had the choice and the opportunity to do something with it, but you didn't. You failed.
Edit: Oh, and your point about propaganda. You bring up a lot of legitimate points about the propaganda nature of advertisement, democracy and limited press, but this ain't the 1950s, son. If you ever talk to major media company heads or publishing company heads, they will all tell you that the days of oligopolistic media control is coming to an end. The internet has brought widespread access to knowledge which is very rapidly breaking down the control the traditional media companies have. Ironically enough, your beloved China is lagging behind in this respect by banning a lot of information coming into the country.
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On March 11 2009 12:52 sMi.SyMPhOnY wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2009 11:45 omninmo wrote: koreans have kimchi (nutritious and cheap) americans have mcdonalds (no nutrional value, cheap).
its funny because americans are just as much slaves to propaganda as they say "pitiful" Nkoreans and Chinese are. american public relations and advertising is the mesmerizing magic that goads you into spending your debt on garbage. professional sports is the new religion that numbs the masses before sleep. "politics" is the marginalizing cleave that keeps everyone simultaneously powerless and diluted to the fact that "their vote counts". and we "pity" poor north korea and their Stalinist regime. americans think they are "free" because they have money to buy whatever they want... that is slavery. i live in "REd China" there are no guns, no drugs. there is no crime. there is no "free press"... that means there is no fearTV. what is the western press? it is "propaganda" and ideology-feeding vomit. in beijing girls hold hands when talking around together. families dont have hummers but they have love. parks are full of elderly people do synchronized taiji and exercising. "oppressed" children go to school 6 days a week and wear uniforms. they dont play 10 hours of video games a day but go to chess and Go practice and learn more in middle school than I did with my "liberal and free" american public education. There are "propaganda" posters like "a prosperous community starts with you" . I havent seen a gun in 5 years. when i visited america last xmas i was nervous the whole time amid obese grazing cows and cops with guns. you're a faggot shut the fuck up Wow, have fun in disneyland. The guy makes a few perfectly valid points and that's the best you can do? Between the two of you it's pretty clear who needs to shut up.
On March 11 2009 13:07 LonelyMargarita wrote: I would systematically refute every "point" you tried to make, but you're just going to go on believe what you've been conditioned to believe. I honestly didn't realize there was so much propaganda in China until I read your post. No please, I would love to hear it. What exactly makes him brainwashed and you free, self-aware and intelligent?
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This threads due for a good China-ing right about... Mao.
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On March 11 2009 12:52 sMi.SyMPhOnY wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2009 11:45 omninmo wrote: koreans have kimchi (nutritious and cheap) americans have mcdonalds (no nutrional value, cheap).
its funny because americans are just as much slaves to propaganda as they say "pitiful" Nkoreans and Chinese are. american public relations and advertising is the mesmerizing magic that goads you into spending your debt on garbage. professional sports is the new religion that numbs the masses before sleep. "politics" is the marginalizing cleave that keeps everyone simultaneously powerless and diluted to the fact that "their vote counts". and we "pity" poor north korea and their Stalinist regime. americans think they are "free" because they have money to buy whatever they want... that is slavery. i live in "REd China" there are no guns, no drugs. there is no crime. there is no "free press"... that means there is no fearTV. what is the western press? it is "propaganda" and ideology-feeding vomit. in beijing girls hold hands when talking around together. families dont have hummers but they have love. parks are full of elderly people do synchronized taiji and exercising. "oppressed" children go to school 6 days a week and wear uniforms. they dont play 10 hours of video games a day but go to chess and Go practice and learn more in middle school than I did with my "liberal and free" american public education. There are "propaganda" posters like "a prosperous community starts with you" . I havent seen a gun in 5 years. when i visited america last xmas i was nervous the whole time amid obese grazing cows and cops with guns. you're a faggot shut the fuck up
This is not an acceptable response, regardless whether you agree with his points or not.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2009 11:45 omninmo wrote: koreans have kimchi (nutritious and cheap) americans have mcdonalds (no nutrional value, cheap).
its funny because americans are just as much slaves to propaganda as they say "pitiful" Nkoreans and Chinese are. american public relations and advertising is the mesmerizing magic that goads you into spending your debt on garbage. professional sports is the new religion that numbs the masses before sleep. "politics" is the marginalizing cleave that keeps everyone simultaneously powerless and diluted to the fact that "their vote counts". and we "pity" poor north korea and their Stalinist regime. americans think they are "free" because they have money to buy whatever they want... that is slavery. i live in "REd China" there are no guns, no drugs. there is no crime. there is no "free press"... that means there is no fearTV. what is the western press? it is "propaganda" and ideology-feeding vomit. in beijing girls hold hands when talking around together. families dont have hummers but they have love. parks are full of elderly people do synchronized taiji and exercising. "oppressed" children go to school 6 days a week and wear uniforms. they dont play 10 hours of video games a day but go to chess and Go practice and learn more in middle school than I did with my "liberal and free" american public education. There are "propaganda" posters like "a prosperous community starts with you" . I havent seen a gun in 5 years. when i visited america last xmas i was nervous the whole time amid obese grazing cows and cops with guns.
You are missing the one key difference. though americans are conditioned to be a part of the ignorant, money loving, and morally corrupt masses, they have the choice not to succumb, unlike N.Koreans. I can, in the USA, openly say "fuck the president he sucks nuts, and i hope he burns in hell" without heavy consequences and by heavy i mean legal action against me.
also kimchi, may be nutritional, and mcdonalds not, but i have the choice to expand my palette and experience the various flavors of so many other cultures, all a short drive away.
of course a lot of americans cannot name a country that starts with U, and i completely agree that it is a disgrace upon humanity, but they are not all like that, and they have the choice not to be, who am I to tell anyone what they should or should not know, be and eat.
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Kind of hoping this thread gets locked before a shit storm turns into a shit hurricane.
I'm all for intellectual debates, but this is just asking for trouble.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
nice find, and u did catch my interesting, heading to the link to read thanks! 5/5
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On March 11 2009 11:45 omninmo wrote: i live in "REd China" there are no guns, no drugs. there is no crime. there is no "free press"... that means there is no fearTV. what is the western press? it is "propaganda" and ideology-feeding vomit.
lololol + Show Spoiler + HDI: China: 0.762 USA: 0.950 I think i take " the ideology vomit" anyday :p
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TL is not suitable for a debate about Communist propaganda. You have some smart posters, and then you have the 14 year old dipshits like Symphony who come in and ruin everything with their "AMERICA, FUCK YEAH" attitude.
That said, the select quotes in the OP and some of the posts on the first page are quite interesting, I'll definitely read this later when I have the time.
FREEDOM IS THE ONLY WAY, YEAH
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On March 11 2009 12:52 sMi.SyMPhOnY wrote: you're a faggot shut the fuck up my point is displayed by this typical angry youth 's sentiment. you see. the world is doomed because simpletons do not have the mental framework to understand their predicament. you tell them that their boat is full of holes and they just ask for more buckets.
thanks for the positive reinforcement and illustration.
@gchan you can spend debt. you can and you do. + Show Spoiler +Stamped in small font but unmistakable plain English is a caveat that upon contemplation of seems to be implying that our dollar bills, our system of money, currency at that, $1s, $5s, $10s, $20s, $50s, and $100s, all of them alike, represent debt. Compare this to a previous era when the statement engraved on our currency stated that the bearer of said note could exchange the note for equivalent value in gold or silver, on demand. In the current era, the clue is that these bills are designed to point out that they are to be accepted for all debts public and private. This still does not explain how or why debt collectors generally seem to be okay with accepting bills for payments of bills. I'm not making this up. Look it up! I'm just thinking otu loud, trying to make some sense out of all of this currency system. These dollar bills are also referred to as notes. Many years ago, if I showed up late for school or left early, teachers might get upset unless I handed them a note from somebody else, after which the teachers were then seemingly okay with this. The power of notes, eh?
In the old Christmas movie there is the famous line "every time a bell rings, an angel gets it's wings". There is another line that says that every time a dollar bill is exchanged for all debts private or public, the Federal Reserve earns a royalty. Since they own the patent to federal reserve notes, they exact a usage fee each and every time one of their dollar bills is officially recorded as having been exchanged for all debts private and public. It eventually becomes more clear that these notes have since there inception been intended to manifest as debt. The system that puts these notes into circulation requires that the production of these notes incur a debt, in the form of interest, for services rendered, you see? This guarantees that the amount of debt attached to the notes will always be more than the face value of the total notes in circulation; debt. There is a related mystery; the notion of a nation so saddled with debt from the long term habitual use of exchanging patented money notes that it can spend it's way out of debt and back into prosperity by way of circulating more and more of these notes which of course necessitates more and more debt being generated in order to manufacture more and more of these notes for circulation. From where or how, theoretically, comes the money to pay the interest on these loans, I may never know, but this kind of interest is interesting to me. It is even more interesting that I may never know how or where the additional money is to come from to pay for the additional royalties racked up each and every time a FRN is officially registered as having been used "spent" for all debts public and private. While the people at large can no longer exhange these notes for silver or gold on demand, the Federal reserve bank requires that the interest paid to it for having produced these notes must be paid in gold. So, on the one hand, dollar bills are seemingly okay to be exchanged for paying certain kinds of debts, light bills... "lite bills", if you will, just not okay for paying the kind of heavy bills racked up through the many years of having created the dollar bills themselves. Isn't that something? The producers, the very copyright patent owners of these dollar bills allow these bills to be exchanged with pretty much the entire spectrum of debt collectors .... EXCEPT themselves. By implication this seems to be the FRB's way of saying that it does not have much faith in it's own dollar bill product. -oh407
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But you're failing to realize that your own boat is full of holes as well.
Both of you are just pointing out the flaws in the other's ship when both of you are failing to mend your own leaks.
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Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
FYI I will be keeping an eye on this thread. I think there is some potential for this topic, but some of you, on both sides, need to get your heads out of your asses. Keep it objective folks.
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On March 11 2009 14:41 koreasilver wrote: But you're failing to realize that your own boat is full of holes as well.
Both of you are just pointing out the flaws in the other's ship when both of you are failing to mend your own leaks. yes this was my point. the difference is i see the holes in my ship and symPHONY is just full of negative energy for reasons unknowable to him.
i didnt mean to posit China's or Korea's current status as objectively "better" than any other nation's. for this confusion i must apologize. I am a Caucasian citizen of the united states with ancestry from sweden and italy. i am not a chinese nationalist or communist sympathizer. I am merely pointing out my experiences living in what is called capital of the "free world" (US) and capital of the "central planning" (PRC). I very much appreciate all the opportunities afforded me while growing up in the US and do not mean to slander said nation. that being said, america's double edged sword, which is at once a blessing and a curse, is her free-loving heterogeneous lack of historical sense. asian nations are just the opposite, i.e. homogeneous and full of historical sense. neither position is "better". but different perspective lead to different ways of interpreting sense experience.
The OP about "poor stalinist korea" which was written in a fashionably sarcastic tone by an expatriot seemed to imply that american culture, with its ostensible "freedoms" is absent of oppressive fascism. my point is just what you said. america is just as rotten and in a state of decadence as another other nation which trades debt for services and which relies on interest as a monetary policy. "freedom to choose" between two of the same thing is not freedom. freedom to choose between mcdonalds and burger king (now available on every corner in beijing, along with subway, pizza hut...) or between foxnews or cnn or between donkey president or elephant president is specious and a false sense of liberty. it is a sort of freedom that is shrouded in oppression since in the end you are still eating fast food, still subscribing to advertisers' brainwashing and still participating in charade elections of "presidents" who are but PR reps for multinational conglomerates seeking maintainence of the status quo class divisions. if i force you to play starcraft but allow you to choose your race. you are free in one sense but overall what are you? + Show Spoiler +my starcraft-playing-monkey, shackled in broodwar bondage.
better tone it down just got a warning bot message + Show Spoiler +Please tone down the nationalistic, self-righteous bulltshit. It's borderline troll material.
If you have a point to make, feel free to make an objective, factual post. Not the garbage you've been spewing so far.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation, EvilTeletubby
i dont expect anyone who has lived their entire life amongst one culture to be able to process any of the above. in this world there are no individuals. consciousness is collective. humanity is a substrate from which personalities grow. ideology is brain fire-wall.
EDIT: i look at the exchange we have had here and it is all quite ridiculous. including what i have written. to judge others in relation to ourselves without proper understanding of either is disingenuous. sorry. lets just play SC and wait for the bombs. glhf.
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You know, omninmo, I'll admit I'm surprised that you gave such a cordial response. I'm not sure what the debt post was in response to, but as for your second post, I do agree with you in that the American system is a double edged sword. People can flourish like nowhere else in the world, but that comes at the consequence of people do fall through the cracks. It is the nature of the capitalist system and it is the nature of liberalism. Both of these Western ideas give the opportunity for individuals to choose what they want to do and historicaly (arguably), this has resulted in a Western dominated society. Heterogeneity gives rise to diversity which in turn gives rise to adaptability. This, IMO, has been the defining trait of Western civilization which has allowed it to become dominant.
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On March 11 2009 15:58 gchan wrote:You know, omninmo, I'll admit I'm surprised that you gave such a cordial response. + Show Spoiler +I'm not sure what the debt post was in response to, but as for your second post, I do agree with you in that the American system is a double edged sword. People can flourish like nowhere else in the world, but that comes at the consequence of people do fall through the cracks. It is the nature of the capitalist system and it is the nature of liberalism. Both of these Western ideas give the opportunity for individuals to choose what they want to do and historicaly (arguably), this has resulted in a Western dominated society. Heterogeneity gives rise to diversity which in turn gives rise to adaptability. This, IMO, has been the defining trait of Western civilization which has allowed it to become dominant. yea bro, thats cuz i dont have an agenda and im not scared of being shown to be in error like PHONY. i love being proved wrong cuz then im not wrong anymore. the american system is admittedly modeled after Rome's which is the same as Great Britain when it was... Imperialism has the aggressor's advantage. Homogeneity does not breed innovation but it does allow for peace. As history illustrates, peace and capitalism are mutually exclusive since war and much arbitrage are too profitable. there is a third path which accepts this contradiction but history has no examples of such a society. + Show Spoiler + Has there ever been an invasion exercised on a foreign country by Communists?
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On March 11 2009 15:03 omninmo wrote: The OP about "poor stalinist korea" which was written in a fashionably sarcastic tone by an expatriot seemed to imply that american culture... Just want to point out that I tried to pick out some of the more controversial posts, mostly because I thought it would interest more people. When you point it out like that, I realize that I misrepresented the overall tone of the work, which is rarely that sarcastic. Also, the guy who wrote it is a Brit.
edit:
On March 11 2009 16:13 omninmo wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Has there ever been an invasion exercised on a foreign country by Communists? Afghanistan, invaded by the soviets?
On March 11 2009 14:49 EvilTeletubby wrote: FYI I will be keeping an eye on this thread. I think there is some potential for this topic, but some of you, on both sides, need to get your heads out of your asses. Keep it objective folks. Sorry, I didn't see this coming. I thought people would mostly be interested in actually reading an account of living in North Korea, rather than arguing about stuff. Apparently I forgot that this is the internet.
That said, this should make for an interesting discussion, provided all parties behave themselves.
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Zurich15324 Posts
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