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North Korean propaganda translator - Page 4

Blogs > CDRdude
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SerpentFlame
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
415 Posts
March 13 2009 03:07 GMT
#61
On March 13 2009 03:14 MoltkeWarding wrote:
Spain's case is more complicated.It's not true that Spain fell into the Fascist orbit, or even that Franco was a fascist. The Falangist movement was essentially conservative and reactionary. Fascism and National Socialism were essentially not. The political association of Franco with Hitler and Mussolini during the Spanish civil war has no ethical implication beyond what is pushed by leftist smear propaganda. (Hitler would later on more than one occasion remark in private that he regretted not aiding the reds.)

Fascism as in a government in which glory is given to the state, enterprises fall under major government regulation (though they would promote such large corporations), militarism is promoted, and political suppression and etc is rampant. Falangism preserves for the large part many of these ideologies, whether or not Franco had anything beyond a short military alliances with the Nazis or Fascists.
I Wannabe[WHITE], the very BeSt[HyO], like Yo Hwan EVER Oz.......
MoltkeWarding
Profile Joined November 2003
5195 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-13 07:09:32
March 13 2009 06:54 GMT
#62
Fascism as in a government in which glory is given to the state, enterprises fall under major government regulation (though they would promote such large corporations), militarism is promoted, and political suppression and etc is rampant.


Unfortunately the 1930s was a more politically dynamic time than today, and political activism of that time occupied a broader spectrum of ideas than what your summary reduces them to.

This summary can describe any modern bureaucracy, including certain examples of social democracy, or people's democracies. The Spanish Civil War was not fought over civil liberties. Franco's Spain was agrarian, clerical, and defended certain feudal social relationships. Mussolini's Fascists took a modern attitude toward social relations and technology, and were anti-monarchist and anti-clerical. During the 1920's Mussolini's Italy was the most modern state in Europe. (Consider the espousal of neo-classical symbolism and autostada in his Italy)This cannot be mentioned of Franco's Spain.

In this, Franco's Falange is more comparable to the nationalist conservatives of the Third Republic, the anti-Dreyfusards, and the Action Francaise.
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-13 13:26:49
March 13 2009 13:21 GMT
#63
Moltke made a really good and valid point. There were a lot of differences between facists, and the more "traditional" conservatism in Spain and France.
However i would like to say ( because Moltke talked about the Action Française and Mussolini's anti-clerical opinions ) that many in the Action Française were quite anti-clerical. The pope actually condamned the organization and its members ( interdiction of sacraments ) because they considered the religion as a tool for nationalism. Some of the books of Maurras ( one of its most influential member ) were at the Index.
So there were many subtilities and "courants" even among those organisations.

Also there were connections between the Action Française, la Cagoule ( an ultra-right terrorist group ) and Italian facist foreigners ( German were considered to be the bad guys even among ultra-right so no love for them lol ).
Some of the Cagoule's members killed Mussolini political opponents, on his orders ( for example Nello Rosselli ).
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
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