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On December 23 2008 16:59 zobz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2008 16:46 Hyperbola wrote:On December 23 2008 14:57 nimysa wrote:
I have been thinking for a while lately and society in general has always aggravated me and my thoughts. First of all, why is it that people perceive well-being to be a zero-sum game? I find good and intelligent people being indoctrinated by a third-world barbaric outlook of life concerning two absolutes; winners and losers, a truly black and white world where the process of our world is influenced upon the operations of people existing within these two paradigms.
It seems my friends, that people are unwilling to question authority. From everything from journals to scientific publications, people are always interested in the social implication of things. This is where this zero-sum game mentality comes into play. I never understood people sometimes, I always thought that life was so much more complex then people gaining something; where at the same time, it is this complexity that influences such gains. Yet of all the miraculous things that happens, the majority of people still view this world as black and white. Is it unwillingness to question and change societal definitions? I have asked many people and some of them do believe there is more to life, but then at the same, they're quickly influenced by people, return back to this darwinistic philosophy and show how superficial they really are.
I ask you, do you believe in a zero-sum game of life?
Do you think that life is too complex to be a zero-sum game and we should adhere and attempt to understand the gears behind it?
What are you're thoughts behind this?
If you do believe in a black and white world of winners and losers, why do you do so?
Has pursuing life with such ideals given any success or guaranteed success to any of you or anyone you know?
Do you believe that, this is something inherent in society?
Another interesting thing I noticed about people and society is that when someone has something and another someone doesn't have something, and the person without the something complains about it, the person with the something is right. If something was wrong about the special thing that the person had and the process by which it was acquired, then the wrongness of "said" object is discarded by the masses because of the fact that a person has acquired it. Very paradoxical and interesting human behavior. That's how we are. Evolution does not "choose", it is. Asking "why" something happens to be like asking: why is there any matter in the universe in the first place? There just is. You could say that about any 'why' question if you believe in determinism, which many people do. But that would make for dry answers to alot of interesting questions. Also, if you believe in free will, we have the power to change the course of things and answering these why questions instead of taking everything for granted can help us to do that.
Free will is a funny concept. Of course people can make all kinds of decisions but what is considered their decision is really a combination of factors which influence a person to act in a certain way. Now 99% of the decisions made by a person in their everyday life is done purely through emotion. Emotional responses are pre-programmed through genetics and social programming. The other 1% of decisions are logical and yet influenced by emotions as well. "Logic" is gained through observations of countless things throughout a person's life and witnessing reactions and outcomes and it also is heavily influenced by instinct. Whatever decision is made is the result of a certain combination of recorded instances combined with emotional responses and instinct. Alright, enough intellectual blabber.
As for the OP, thinking too much about these things is really depressing. Although I do not think ignorance is a good thing, living your life without really trying to justify or over think everything is a much happier life style.
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On December 23 2008 17:31 Hyperbola wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2008 16:59 zobz wrote:On December 23 2008 16:46 Hyperbola wrote:On December 23 2008 14:57 nimysa wrote:
I have been thinking for a while lately and society in general has always aggravated me and my thoughts. First of all, why is it that people perceive well-being to be a zero-sum game? I find good and intelligent people being indoctrinated by a third-world barbaric outlook of life concerning two absolutes; winners and losers, a truly black and white world where the process of our world is influenced upon the operations of people existing within these two paradigms.
It seems my friends, that people are unwilling to question authority. From everything from journals to scientific publications, people are always interested in the social implication of things. This is where this zero-sum game mentality comes into play. I never understood people sometimes, I always thought that life was so much more complex then people gaining something; where at the same time, it is this complexity that influences such gains. Yet of all the miraculous things that happens, the majority of people still view this world as black and white. Is it unwillingness to question and change societal definitions? I have asked many people and some of them do believe there is more to life, but then at the same, they're quickly influenced by people, return back to this darwinistic philosophy and show how superficial they really are.
I ask you, do you believe in a zero-sum game of life?
Do you think that life is too complex to be a zero-sum game and we should adhere and attempt to understand the gears behind it?
What are you're thoughts behind this?
If you do believe in a black and white world of winners and losers, why do you do so?
Has pursuing life with such ideals given any success or guaranteed success to any of you or anyone you know?
Do you believe that, this is something inherent in society?
Another interesting thing I noticed about people and society is that when someone has something and another someone doesn't have something, and the person without the something complains about it, the person with the something is right. If something was wrong about the special thing that the person had and the process by which it was acquired, then the wrongness of "said" object is discarded by the masses because of the fact that a person has acquired it. Very paradoxical and interesting human behavior. That's how we are. Evolution does not "choose", it is. Asking "why" something happens to be like asking: why is there any matter in the universe in the first place? There just is. You could say that about any 'why' question if you believe in determinism, which many people do. But that would make for dry answers to alot of interesting questions. Also, if you believe in free will, we have the power to change the course of things and answering these why questions instead of taking everything for granted can help us to do that. Free will is a funny concept. Of course people can make all kinds of decisions but what is considered their decision is really a combination of factors which influence a person to act in a certain way. Now 99% of the decisions made by a person in their everyday life is done purely through emotion. Emotional responses are pre-programmed through genetics and social programming. The other 1% of decisions are logical and yet influenced by emotions as well. "Logic" is gained through observations of countless things throughout a person's life and witnessing reactions and outcomes and it also is heavily influenced by instinct. Whatever decision is made is the result of a certain combination of recorded instances combined with emotional responses and instinct. Alright, enough intellectual blabber. As for the OP, thinking too much about these things is really depressing. Although I do not think ignorance is a good thing, living your life without really trying to justify or over think everything is a much happier life style.
well one of my most depressing experiences was when a read book titled "Human Games" or something. It was written by a psychologist and it described real life 2 person situations and he wrote what the usual outcomes were, what could alter the outcomes, which person plays what role in that specific game... it was very scary, after reading that I was thinking about people as machines for a while.
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No, I don't believe in a zero-sum game of life. This is because I don't see the world in black and white: everything is a mix of grey. There is no right, there is no wrong, there are only values that people accept to be true and believe even though no one can truly say they are more good or more bad than the other.
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Hell Fuckin Yea!!!.....I liked the short read..
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On December 23 2008 17:31 Hyperbola wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2008 16:59 zobz wrote:On December 23 2008 16:46 Hyperbola wrote:On December 23 2008 14:57 nimysa wrote:
I have been thinking for a while lately and society in general has always aggravated me and my thoughts. First of all, why is it that people perceive well-being to be a zero-sum game? I find good and intelligent people being indoctrinated by a third-world barbaric outlook of life concerning two absolutes; winners and losers, a truly black and white world where the process of our world is influenced upon the operations of people existing within these two paradigms.
It seems my friends, that people are unwilling to question authority. From everything from journals to scientific publications, people are always interested in the social implication of things. This is where this zero-sum game mentality comes into play. I never understood people sometimes, I always thought that life was so much more complex then people gaining something; where at the same time, it is this complexity that influences such gains. Yet of all the miraculous things that happens, the majority of people still view this world as black and white. Is it unwillingness to question and change societal definitions? I have asked many people and some of them do believe there is more to life, but then at the same, they're quickly influenced by people, return back to this darwinistic philosophy and show how superficial they really are.
I ask you, do you believe in a zero-sum game of life?
Do you think that life is too complex to be a zero-sum game and we should adhere and attempt to understand the gears behind it?
What are you're thoughts behind this?
If you do believe in a black and white world of winners and losers, why do you do so?
Has pursuing life with such ideals given any success or guaranteed success to any of you or anyone you know?
Do you believe that, this is something inherent in society?
Another interesting thing I noticed about people and society is that when someone has something and another someone doesn't have something, and the person without the something complains about it, the person with the something is right. If something was wrong about the special thing that the person had and the process by which it was acquired, then the wrongness of "said" object is discarded by the masses because of the fact that a person has acquired it. Very paradoxical and interesting human behavior. That's how we are. Evolution does not "choose", it is. Asking "why" something happens to be like asking: why is there any matter in the universe in the first place? There just is. You could say that about any 'why' question if you believe in determinism, which many people do. But that would make for dry answers to alot of interesting questions. Also, if you believe in free will, we have the power to change the course of things and answering these why questions instead of taking everything for granted can help us to do that. Free will is a funny concept. Of course people can make all kinds of decisions but what is considered their decision is really a combination of factors which influence a person to act in a certain way. Now 99% of the decisions made by a person in their everyday life is done purely through emotion. Emotional responses are pre-programmed through genetics and social programming. The other 1% of decisions are logical and yet influenced by emotions as well. "Logic" is gained through observations of countless things throughout a person's life and witnessing reactions and outcomes and it also is heavily influenced by instinct. Whatever decision is made is the result of a certain combination of recorded instances combined with emotional responses and instinct. Alright, enough intellectual blabber. As for the OP, thinking too much about these things is really depressing. Although I do not think ignorance is a good thing, living your life without really trying to justify or over think everything is a much happier life style.
Most of your decisions in day to day life come because of cultural discourses over emotion, these are hedgmonic decisions (something so natural it goes unquestioned by use - hedgmony). If almost all your decisions were emotional ones then you wouldn't have any sort of logic or stability and you would look feel like a crazy person. Logic comes from your understanding a given situation and useing your intellect to determine the "best" outcome or process and it doesn't have to fall in line with your instinct. Society does not have the power to pre-program your emotional responses it just defines the rules of discourse (societal norms that construct the rules of talking about a subject/topic by saying what can and cannot be said, always changing) that you live within. You're still free. The rule of law is always forcibly coersed on citizens but laws are always broken so clearly they don't always mean that much.
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On December 23 2008 14:57 nimysa wrote:
Another interesting thing I noticed about people and society is that when someone has something and another someone doesn't have something, and the person without the something complains about it, the person with the something is right. If something was wrong about the special thing that the person had and the process by which it was acquired, then the wrongness of "said" object is discarded by the masses because of the fact that a person has acquired it. Very paradoxical and interesting human behavior.
Can you give us an example of what you're talking about here?
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life's not fair, so it's not a zero-sum game.
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On December 24 2008 01:08 vhallee wrote:
life's not fair, so it's not a zero-sum game.
what ~~
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On December 24 2008 00:34 WebOfMaya wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2008 14:57 nimysa wrote:
Another interesting thing I noticed about people and society is that when someone has something and another someone doesn't have something, and the person without the something complains about it, the person with the something is right. If something was wrong about the special thing that the person had and the process by which it was acquired, then the wrongness of "said" object is discarded by the masses because of the fact that a person has acquired it. Very paradoxical and interesting human behavior. Can you give us an example of what you're talking about here?
When a society has something that benefits them, even if there is something wrong with it, people will still have that something regardless of its wrongness.
In other words, people don't exactly know whats good for them.
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On December 24 2008 07:22 nimysa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2008 00:34 WebOfMaya wrote:On December 23 2008 14:57 nimysa wrote:
Another interesting thing I noticed about people and society is that when someone has something and another someone doesn't have something, and the person without the something complains about it, the person with the something is right. If something was wrong about the special thing that the person had and the process by which it was acquired, then the wrongness of "said" object is discarded by the masses because of the fact that a person has acquired it. Very paradoxical and interesting human behavior. Can you give us an example of what you're talking about here? When a society has something that benefits them, even if there is something wroon ng with it, people will still have that something. In other words, people don't exactly know whats good for them.
How are those two related?
People don't know what is good for them, that is obvious, but what do it have to do with people having something that is not perfect? Do you mean that it is better to have nothing at all than something imperfect?
Also life can't as a fact be a zero sum game or life could not have sprouted up from almost nothing :p
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On December 23 2008 18:01 freelander wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2008 17:31 Hyperbola wrote:On December 23 2008 16:59 zobz wrote:On December 23 2008 16:46 Hyperbola wrote:On December 23 2008 14:57 nimysa wrote:
I have been thinking for a while lately and society in general has always aggravated me and my thoughts. First of all, why is it that people perceive well-being to be a zero-sum game? I find good and intelligent people being indoctrinated by a third-world barbaric outlook of life concerning two absolutes; winners and losers, a truly black and white world where the process of our world is influenced upon the operations of people existing within these two paradigms.
It seems my friends, that people are unwilling to question authority. From everything from journals to scientific publications, people are always interested in the social implication of things. This is where this zero-sum game mentality comes into play. I never understood people sometimes, I always thought that life was so much more complex then people gaining something; where at the same time, it is this complexity that influences such gains. Yet of all the miraculous things that happens, the majority of people still view this world as black and white. Is it unwillingness to question and change societal definitions? I have asked many people and some of them do believe there is more to life, but then at the same, they're quickly influenced by people, return back to this darwinistic philosophy and show how superficial they really are.
I ask you, do you believe in a zero-sum game of life?
Do you think that life is too complex to be a zero-sum game and we should adhere and attempt to understand the gears behind it?
What are you're thoughts behind this?
If you do believe in a black and white world of winners and losers, why do you do so?
Has pursuing life with such ideals given any success or guaranteed success to any of you or anyone you know?
Do you believe that, this is something inherent in society?
Another interesting thing I noticed about people and society is that when someone has something and another someone doesn't have something, and the person without the something complains about it, the person with the something is right. If something was wrong about the special thing that the person had and the process by which it was acquired, then the wrongness of "said" object is discarded by the masses because of the fact that a person has acquired it. Very paradoxical and interesting human behavior. That's how we are. Evolution does not "choose", it is. Asking "why" something happens to be like asking: why is there any matter in the universe in the first place? There just is. You could say that about any 'why' question if you believe in determinism, which many people do. But that would make for dry answers to alot of interesting questions. Also, if you believe in free will, we have the power to change the course of things and answering these why questions instead of taking everything for granted can help us to do that. Free will is a funny concept. Of course people can make all kinds of decisions but what is considered their decision is really a combination of factors which influence a person to act in a certain way. Now 99% of the decisions made by a person in their everyday life is done purely through emotion. Emotional responses are pre-programmed through genetics and social programming. The other 1% of decisions are logical and yet influenced by emotions as well. "Logic" is gained through observations of countless things throughout a person's life and witnessing reactions and outcomes and it also is heavily influenced by instinct. Whatever decision is made is the result of a certain combination of recorded instances combined with emotional responses and instinct. Alright, enough intellectual blabber. As for the OP, thinking too much about these things is really depressing. Although I do not think ignorance is a good thing, living your life without really trying to justify or over think everything is a much happier life style. well one of my most depressing experiences was when a read book titled "Human Games" or something. It was written by a psychologist and it described real life 2 person situations and he wrote what the usual outcomes were, what could alter the outcomes, which person plays what role in that specific game... it was very scary, after reading that I was thinking about people as machines for a while.
If you start to analyse yourself and your thinking/behaviour patterns you realize that this is true though. Humans are really marvellous, the bulk is built up from a large set of stable processes which are needed to keep us alive and then a few sets of chaotic processes which allows us to think in wrong ways.
Being able to think "wrong" is the most important step towards creativity and in the end the ideas goes the way of Darwin where the most successful ones survive while we kill off the rest. Electronic components are too perfect to allow them to do such things which is why the Turing problem holds, the machines are fail safe.
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It is a zero-sum game. I win, you lose, everyone is unhappy. Always.
That's life.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
gg is death and as far as I know no one I've met or known personally has passed that level, so unless ur jesus, life is not a zero-sum game, cause its gg for everyone sooner or later..
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EPT
