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Wtf is reification?

Blogs > Hippopotamus
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Hippopotamus
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
1914 Posts
December 08 2008 05:55 GMT
#1
Seriously, I ran into it the other day and it still makes no sense to me. I read the wiki write up AND all the links it referenced. It makes some sense, but I don't understand it at all. I'll give an example context:

+ Show Spoiler +
As the reactionary scientists failed to establish valid biophysical explanations for social inequality by measuring skulls both on the outside (using calipers and rulers) and the inside (using mustard seed and lead shot), they moved into the realm of measuring “the content of brains by intelligence testing” (23, revised edition). It is here that the error that perhaps receives the bulk of Gould’s attention is to be found: reification—the process of treating as a real entity something that is in fact an abstract concept. Cyril Burt and current advocates of the notion that intelligence is literally a one-dimensional feature of the brain that is measurable by psychometric tests are guilty of reifying their own constructions. Those guilty of reifying IQ argue that there is a general underlying intellectual ability in each of us, g, that is measured reasonably well by IQ tests, in spite of the evidence suggesting that g is a product of the tests themselves, a statistical creation, not a genuine mental attribute.

In an unflinchingly rational manner, Gould devastates this “IQ as indicator of general intelligence” interpretation by showing it to be a creation of the statistical procedures used and the a priori convictions of the researchers. The general intelligence factor emerges from factor analysis of a variety of mental tests. Factor analysis is a statistical procedure that attempts to explain the covariance among variables (various mental tests in this case) by extracting one or a few factors that can account for the observed inter-correlations (individuals’ scores on different tests tend to be positively correlated with one another—i.e., people who do well on one type of test tend to do well on other types). IQ proponents have long argued that only one factor is necessary to explain observed correlations among a variety of mental tests, which they take to indicate the existence of a general intelligence that is an actual characteristic of the brain. However, as Gould explains, factor analysis does not work magic; it is entirely based on the observed correlations among tests. The belief that a factor extracted via factor analysis is a real entity is based on the heroic assumption that the variables under analysis (performance on various mental tests in this case) are connected by an underlying causal regime (stemming from a feature of the brain). This assumption is not and cannot be established by statistical methods alone and is only valid to the extent that correlation is indicative of causation. Although determining correlation is necessary for establishing a causal relationship among variables, it is not sufficient. Factor analysis alone simply cannot adjudicate the matter of causality, nor establish whether a factor corresponds with a real entity.


I think...he makes a distinction between real and what I take as 'un-real'. So the problem is we say the 'un-real' concept is a real thing... so in bigger words:

Those guilty of reifying IQ argue that there is a general underlying intellectual ability in each of us, g, that is measured reasonably well by IQ tests, in spite of the evidence suggesting that g is a product of the tests themselves, a statistical creation, not a genuine mental attribute.


But I don't get it... what's the significance of this fallacy? How could it be any other way?

***
Descent
Profile Joined January 2008
1244 Posts
December 08 2008 06:02 GMT
#2
I think it's just conceptualizing abstract ideas in a way that makes it easier for humans to understand. I think the theme from that excerpt about IQ is that IQ is a standard used to measure and quantify the abstract quantity of any given person's intelligence. The notion of IQ is used despite the fact that it may or may not be an accurate representation and/or measure of intelligence.
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Spenguin
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Australia3316 Posts
December 08 2008 06:05 GMT
#3
God?
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SonuvBob
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Aiur21549 Posts
December 08 2008 06:10 GMT
#4
It's saying IQ is just an abstraction of intelligence, so it's a fallacy to use IQ to try to prove something about actual intelligence.
Administrator
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
December 08 2008 06:11 GMT
#5
just as confusing as that one quote from that savior interview :/
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fight_or_flight
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States3988 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-08 06:16:41
December 08 2008 06:15 GMT
#6
Seems to me like it happens in physics all the time. For example, one physicist finds that an equation fits perfectly to some data he has measured. Then what eventually happens is that other physicists treat the equation, the mathematical model, as if it was the phenomena itself, forgetting the fact that it is not real, it is just a model, and if someone can prove the original experiment to be flawed in some way, then their house of cards crashes down.

However, when they ignore the newfound insights into the original experiment (showing it is wrong), and continue to use the equation, then they fall victim to this fallacy.
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tec27
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States3701 Posts
December 08 2008 06:23 GMT
#7
On December 08 2008 15:15 fight_or_flight wrote:
Seems to me like it happens in physics all the time. For example, one physicist finds that an equation fits perfectly to some data he has measured. Then what eventually happens is that other physicists treat the equation, the mathematical model, as if it was the phenomena itself, forgetting the fact that it is not real, it is just a model, and if someone can prove the original experiment to be flawed in some way, then their house of cards crashes down.

However, when they ignore the newfound insights into the original experiment (showing it is wrong), and continue to use the equation, then they fall victim to this fallacy.

Fairly good example of it, I think. Happens even more in economics though
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Descent
Profile Joined January 2008
1244 Posts
December 08 2008 06:25 GMT
#8
On December 08 2008 15:15 fight_or_flight wrote:
Seems to me like it happens in physics all the time. For example, one physicist finds that an equation fits perfectly to some data he has measured. Then what eventually happens is that other physicists treat the equation, the mathematical model, as if it was the phenomena itself, forgetting the fact that it is not real, it is just a model, and if someone can prove the original experiment to be flawed in some way, then their house of cards crashes down.

However, when they ignore the newfound insights into the original experiment (showing it is wrong), and continue to use the equation, then they fall victim to this fallacy.

Well put~ I think using the equation as something more than a model is the fallacy though, i.e. from the very beginning. A fallacy shouldn't rely on whether or not it's been proven to be false, as temporally, if something's a falsehood yet hasn't been uncovered to be a falsehood at a given time doesn't change the fact that it was false from the start.
「 Dream & Future 」 ※ 「 STX SouL 」
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
December 08 2008 07:18 GMT
#9
Another example that perhaps may or may not precisely fit the model but is an example is the strength of any Starcraft army. Strength correlates with size, unit type and unit strength, but if we turned those into an aggregate number (akin to Statisticians taking test scores and turning them into IQ percentiles) an army of strength score of 180 would not always be better than a army with a strength score of 179. We tried to make something a real entity (army strength, measured by army strength score) which is, in fact, an abstract concept (army strength is a pretty abstract concept).
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
fight_or_flight
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States3988 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-08 08:21:44
December 08 2008 08:21 GMT
#10
On December 08 2008 15:25 Descent wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2008 15:15 fight_or_flight wrote:
Seems to me like it happens in physics all the time. For example, one physicist finds that an equation fits perfectly to some data he has measured. Then what eventually happens is that other physicists treat the equation, the mathematical model, as if it was the phenomena itself, forgetting the fact that it is not real, it is just a model, and if someone can prove the original experiment to be flawed in some way, then their house of cards crashes down.

However, when they ignore the newfound insights into the original experiment (showing it is wrong), and continue to use the equation, then they fall victim to this fallacy.

Well put~ I think using the equation as something more than a model is the fallacy though, i.e. from the very beginning. A fallacy shouldn't rely on whether or not it's been proven to be false, as temporally, if something's a falsehood yet hasn't been uncovered to be a falsehood at a given time doesn't change the fact that it was false from the start.

That's not the way it works though...

[image loading]


(ie the equations are infallible)
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