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On November 04 2008 09:53 Tensai176 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2008 09:45 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
You dream come true Insane Lane! He's actually trying to be like Hemingway! Not really trying to become him, I respect him as an author cause hes a pimp and i generally enjoy his works. It'd be nice to be as good as him, but writing, to me, is just still a hobby XD.
Also i think we'd all prefer if you kept your brains inside your head. They're much more useful there.
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If you respect Hemingway, Insane Lane has a shrine to the guy. You don't even understand.
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I really like the mood you've struck with this piece...I don't know whether this was conscious but the sparse dialogue and simple description give off a vibe of a desolate wintry scene...which is a really pleasing effect 
I'm not going to nitpick but in general you don't drop enough hints as to what exactly is going on...from the two voices you use I kind of got a feeling one was an ambiguous presence, which attests to your solid imagining of the characters...but I was totally lost as to the two silhouettes x_X It'll be hard but if you can pull off letting the reader know these two by subtle hints I will be very impressed xP
overall pleasing to read, short and sweet. :D
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On November 04 2008 09:55 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
If you respect Hemingway, Insane Lane has a shrine to the guy. You don't even understand.
It actually looks more like an altar.
And yeah at first I thought there was a girl with him, then I thought a ghost like Hamlet or Nova or something.
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Alliteration is beautiful. Read Edgar A. Poe's short stories. Filled with it.
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I disliked the excessive adverbs (e.g., slowly, quietly, gently), but nevertheless enjoyed the piece overall.
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i really hate when people tell me this (because, when they do, they're always wrong! >_<), but i think that you used some words you didn't mean to - or maybe you could have used different words to better communicate your intended thoughts. for example, i know you want to describe the surroundings as "sleepy" or something, but "dozing concrete?" really?
also, just my opinion, but the first block of dialogue is kind of annoying
i'm not criticizing the use of dialogue, but it reminds me of this:
Appearing quite listless, the boy approached.
"sup"
"hey"
"so what'd you do yesterday"
"nothing much, you?"
"eh, just chilled"
"cool"
"yeah"
"well ..."
and maybe vary up the sentence structure in the paragraph that starts with "the boy tilted his head ..." it doesn't really seem to flow as much as the rest of the piece
i don't know ... i absolutely hate getting this kind of criticism because it's mostly so subjective. whatever.
i really like the tone, though
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Writing a story this short is difficult. You've got to accomplish a lot in a short span of time.
Writing about loss is also hard. You do a good job with misdirection when you use it:
The sun was still asleep and the snow continued to pile up on the dozing concrete.
You don't mention the other girl and the boy here, but we know you're talking about it -- you're creating a mood based on the speaker's perspective. This misdirection is effective. When you write these moments, you're essentially saying, "Boy Has Experienced Loss" without actually saying it. This is a good thing.
I would suggest that you cannot write about loss. You can write about a person who has lost in a specific situation, but you can't write about loss. There's nothing wrong with having a plot that is simply: boy stands in snow thinking about a girl with another boy, boy gets on bus, the end, but there must be a sort of movement. I'm not saying a major plot event, just a movement.
For example, take a look at the Hemingway (since he was mentioned in this thread) story Hills Like White Elephants. There's not "action," it's just a man and woman having drinks at a bar, but there is a movement based on the dialogue.
Another good story that doesn't have a major plot change but which does have really amazing movement is the Donald Bartholome story "The School." Check that out.
Edit: Just to clarify: You can write about a boy boarding a bus who has lost (which is what this story is about at the moment). Writing a story about a boy who has lost is sad, but not heartbreaking, which we always attempt when we write.
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On November 04 2008 10:05 jellyfish wrote:
I'm not going to nitpick but in general you don't drop enough hints as to what exactly is going on...from the two voices you use I kind of got a feeling one was an ambiguous presence, which attests to your solid imagining of the characters...but I was totally lost as to the two silhouettes x_X It'll be hard but if you can pull off letting the reader know these two by subtle hints I will be very impressed xP
overall pleasing to read, short and sweet. :D
Nitpicking is what i wanted from the thread though, and yeah I know, before I handed it in for marks I let my brother, my cousin, my two friends read it and i told them to tell me what it was about. I got, two friends talking to eachother, a boy talking to his psychiatrist about running away from home, a boy talking about the divorce of his mother and father. Yeah, i guess i kinda wanted it in a way that can be interpreted in many ways, but you're definitely right, I didn't give enough. Strangely though, my teacher (he's amazing though) got it right away and gave me an 89+ (he likes the subtle, don't tell me anything, kinda thing.)
i really hate when people tell me this (because, when they do, they're always wrong! >_<, but i think that you used some words you didn't mean to - or maybe you could have used different words to better communicate your intended thoughts. for example, i know you want to describe the surroundings as "sleepy" or something, but "dozing concrete?" really?
also, just my opinion, but the first block of dialogue is kind of annoying
i'm not criticizing the use of dialogue, but it reminds me of this:
Appearing quite listless, the boy approached.
"sup"
"hey"
"so what'd you do yesterday"
"nothing much, you?"
"eh, just chilled"
"cool"
"yeah"
"well ..."
and maybe vary up the sentence structure in the paragraph that starts with "the boy tilted his head ..." it doesn't really seem to flow as much as the rest of the piece
You're right its mostly subjective since a writer's work, in the end, is up to the reader but almost all of the stuff I do agree with. The first sentences don't really drag you in, its a bit boring/casual talking. I didn't really know how to keep that tone, and still make it so engaging, but I needed to keep the tone above all else. I think I can do better now though, picking the right words with different combination is tricky though. Thanks for the critisms though.
I would suggest that you cannot write about loss. You can write about a person who has lost in a specific situation, but you can't write about loss. There's nothing wrong with having a plot that is simply: boy stands in snow thinking about a girl with another boy, boy gets on bus, the end, but there must be a sort of movement. I'm not saying a major plot event, just a movement.
I'm not quite sure what you meant about the other parts about loss/lost (I have an idea) but the quote above i do know where you are coming from. It does kinda seem sort've static in the idea with the dialogue and if i could re-submit with an edit I definitely would with some engagement and movement.
Hmmm, but i'm not sure where i wanted to drive the theme with this, since in the end he doesn't really solve the problem but i guess its kind of getting better.
I disliked the excessive adverbs (e.g., slowly, quietly, gently), but nevertheless enjoyed the piece overall.
lol that's actually sort've a problem I've had and everytime i proofread i would have sooo many of those. Trust me, if this story wasn't editted it would have triple amounts T_T. But i guess i will cut back a bit more, thank you.
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On November 04 2008 13:07 Tensai176 wrote:
I'm not quite sure what you meant about the other parts about loss/lost (I have an idea) but the quote above i do know where you are coming from. It does kinda seem sort've static in the idea with the dialogue and if i could re-submit with an edit I definitely would with some engagement and movement.
Hmmm, but i'm not sure where i wanted to drive the theme with this, since in the end he doesn't really solve the problem but i guess its kind of getting better.
Here's an analogy.
We begin with a man who's lost his daughter. This is sad but it's not heartbreaking, so we set it up more specifically: the daughter is 6, the man teaches kindergarten. It's take your daughter to work day and there are no daughters in the classroom.
Okay, we've got something here, but it's still not a story. You tell a story because there's a shift in mood or conclusion or event.
I agree with you -- the main character in your story does HINT at things getting better. But we barely know the girl, we don't really know what's at stake for him. He has a conversation with himself in which we infer that things might improve. That said, I don't think you should try to SOLVE anything in this story.
Let me ask this:
Why is it important that you tell this story at this specific time? What about getting on a bus (in this context) illuminates the loss your speaker is going through?
Or, more generally, what sorts of things does your speaker's loss affect? Can you put this (slightly) unstable character in an unstable situation and see what happens to him?
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On November 04 2008 13:38 DeepGreen wrote:
Why is it important that you tell this story at this specific time? What about getting on a bus (in this context) illuminates the loss your speaker is going through?
Or, more generally, what sorts of things does your speaker's loss affect? Can you put this (slightly) unstable character in an unstable situation and see what happens to him?
Yeah, now I definitely see where you're coming from but there wasn't that much of a special meaning towards the time and the bus. It was something on the lines of his feelings are kind of dormant, doesn't really know what to do, he's essentially "Frozen in time" and that's represented by the morning and him being alone and such.
The bus signifies more like time, and its the key to essentially "moving on" and when he steps on it time moves forward, the darkness starts to fade away and the like.Thats why the voice that's more like his rationalization is convincing him that the bus can take him anywhere (moving on, finding another love) and that the transfer is more of an add-on to that.It shows the speaker trying to make attempts at coming into terms with the ordeal.
Yeah, I think I would revise the beginning bit, put more 3D elements, and answer some ambiguous but necessary questions to keep the reader guessing more, and more involved with the speaker. Show them whats at stake, and why hes doing what hes doing kinda thing? That's where i see it.
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On November 04 2008 13:54 Tensai176 wrote:
Yeah, now I definitely see where you're coming from but there wasn't that much of a special meaning towards the time and the bus. It was something on the lines of his feelings are kind of dormant, doesn't really know what to do, he's essentially "Frozen in time" and that's represented by the morning and him being alone and such.
Yeah, but you picked the image of a bus picking him up. You're the bird, not the ornithologist. Don't worry about themes and symbolism and shit -- that's for the critics. Just write the story.
The bus signifies more like time, and its the key to essentially "moving on" and when he steps on it time moves forward, the darkness starts to fade away and the like.Thats why the voice that's more like his rationalization is convincing him that the bus can take him anywhere (moving on, finding another love) and that the transfer is more of an add-on to that (beyond what he thinks he can do).It shows what the speaker is trying to make attempts at coming into terms with the ordeal.
Are you telling as opposed to showing here? Sounds like you've thought about symbolism and metaphor but you haven't given a lot of thought to your character here. Again, you're writing about how human beings experiences loss, but you're neglecting to write about how a specific human being experiences loss. If this is entirely autobiographical, keep in mind that readers do not know you without you giving us something concrete.
Yeah, I think I would revise the beginning bit, put more 3D elements, and answer some ambiguous but necessary questions to keep the reader guessing more, and more involved with the speaker. Show them whats at stake, and why hes doing what hes doing kinda thing? That's where i see it.
I know what you mean, but I'd suggest not thinking about the reader. Again, just tell the story: if it's compelling (if we understand what's at stake), we'll keep reading.
By putting in more 3D elements, do you mean developing the setting? I think that's an excellent choice. Why is this kid here, why is he thinking about the girl now, where's he going? You're about to put him on a bus, he probably has a destination, which is an opportunity. He's also going to be surrounded by people, because he's on a bus, which is another opportunity. Or it's an empty bus, which is an opportunity.
I guess what I'm saying is, let's get out of his head and see how he engages with the world around him in light of what he's going through.
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I agree with a lot of what DeepGreen is saying here. I would also posit that it is better to show the reader how the main character experiences - and handles - loss rather than tell the reader about these things.
I understand the minimalist style of this piece - much like Hemmingway's piece - but as DeepGreen already pointed out, more effective dialogue is necessary to make this kind of piece successful with so few "3D elements."
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EPT
