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Hello Tl, writing is one of my hobbies. I enjoy it a lot and helps me cope with stress/depression many times. I'm not going to pretend that I'm good, though I think I can say that I'm not completely hopeless but who knows.
I wrote this short story (only a page long) for my gr.12 Writer's craft class which was a year ago and I decided to post it seeking comments/criticism's/compliments. Reason is, because i love writing so much, I'm actually writing a fiction book that I'm going to self-publish (because I'm not good enough to get it published) and distribute to friends since they have generally liked my pieces.
Also if you'd like, post some of your own pieces to receive the same kind of responses that hopefully I'm looking for. This piece is pretty emo though, since it was a time where the girl I liked had a boyfriend, my group of friends were fighting etc. Its also very subtle, its inspired by Ernest Hemmingway's "Hills like White Elephants."
I'm hoping Tl's talented writers can help me, and if I can prove skillful enough contribute in making articles (I am planning on making a starcraft article soon.)
Silhouettes
The snow gently fell on the sleeping streets and sidewalks as the morning buses quietly glided along the deserted roads. The dimmed lampposts revealed a silhouette of a boy, waiting for the bus on a cold Monday morning.
“You’re thinking about it, even now.” The frosty air clung to the boy’s ears.
“I know” He replied.
“I thought you gave up”
“I did…”
“Then?”
“It’s just hard to forget. I see them everywhere”
“See what?”
“The silhouettes… Two of them”
“Those two?”
“Yeah, those two.”
The boy tilted his head and watched his breath rise. The stars were gone and there was no moon. He watched his breath disappear as the cold snow gently collected on his face. He closed his eyes, watching again the silhouettes in his mind.
“So mysterious, and yet so familiar, those two…”
“We worked on this”
“And when I think about it, maybe if things happened differently... maybe in the future”
“Think of what you’re wishing for.”
The boy shook his head and sighed. The sun was still asleep and the snow continued to pile up on the dozing concrete. From the distance, against the falling snow and bitter darkness, a pale glow was visible to the boy’s eyes. They were lights, slowly getting brighter. His eyes strained at the lights and the coming bus,
“It looks like a train…”
“It is a train, it can take you anywhere.”
“I don’t believe you…”
“The transfer can take you anywhere.”
“I don’t believe you…”
The bus gently landed beside the stop. He paused for a second before he stepped alone into the vehicle. He took his transfer and quietly sat down on a single seat at the back.
“You okay now?”
“Yeah… Sorry”
The boy held the transfer tightly in his hand and glanced at the numbers.
“11.” Looking at the gentle dance of the snowflakes as they fell and the now fading darkness, the boy smiled and the silhouettes, for at least a moment, disappeared.
+ Show Spoiler + I know its hard to get but the guy is talking to himself and the silhouettes are the girl he likes with another guy.
 
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join nanowrimo if you like to write.. im above 2k atm lol.
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Holy Christ, 50,000 is beastly though... Okay I will try thanks!
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"The snow gently fell on the sleeping streets and sidewalks..."
Always make attempts at avoiding alliteration.
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United States17042 Posts
On November 04 2008 07:26 LightRailCoyote wrote:
"The snow gently fell on the sleeping streets and sidewalks..."
Always make attempts at avoiding alliteration.
Unless it's an effect that you're aiming for.
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On November 04 2008 07:27 waterGHOSTCLAWdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2008 07:26 LightRailCoyote wrote:
"The snow gently fell on the sleeping streets and sidewalks..."
Always make attempts at avoiding alliteration. Unless it's an effect that you're aiming for.
In prose, 99 percent of the time it just sounds bad. In poetry, it can be applied, but i don't think there are many ways it can be used well in prose. I'd be glad to hear one though.
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On November 04 2008 07:26 LightRailCoyote wrote:
"The snow gently fell on the sleeping streets and sidewalks..."
Always make attempts at avoiding alliteration.
Okay, thanks, this is the stuff I need haha, and no it wasn't intended
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United States17042 Posts
On November 04 2008 07:46 LightRailCoyote wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2008 07:27 waterGHOSTCLAWdragon wrote:On November 04 2008 07:26 LightRailCoyote wrote:
"The snow gently fell on the sleeping streets and sidewalks..."
Always make attempts at avoiding alliteration. Unless it's an effect that you're aiming for. In prose, 99 percent of the time it just sounds bad. In poetry, it can be applied, but i don't think there are many ways it can be used well in prose. I'd be glad to hear one though.
The author already responded to you (he likes your criticism xD).
I think that you're right, and it's not really used in modern prose. However, it is used in poetry (as you stated), as well as older English (I believe there are alliterations used in every line in beowulf).
I also would say that if it's a key line/word/saying in a fictional story, as well as a cliche, then it's okay for it to be alliterative (Do or Die, Now or Never, etc.).
I sort of put the above cases into my response ("Unless it's an effect that you're aiming for"). If it's not, and you do it on accident...well, you should be proofreading xD.
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On November 04 2008 07:46 LightRailCoyote wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2008 07:27 waterGHOSTCLAWdragon wrote:On November 04 2008 07:26 LightRailCoyote wrote:
"The snow gently fell on the sleeping streets and sidewalks..."
Always make attempts at avoiding alliteration. Unless it's an effect that you're aiming for. In prose, 99 percent of the time it just sounds bad. In poetry, it can be applied, but i don't think there are many ways it can be used well in prose. I'd be glad to hear one though.
Bad advice from a bad author 
+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 04 2008 07:56 waterGHOSTCLAWdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2008 07:46 LightRailCoyote wrote:On November 04 2008 07:27 waterGHOSTCLAWdragon wrote:On November 04 2008 07:26 LightRailCoyote wrote:
"The snow gently fell on the sleeping streets and sidewalks..."
Always make attempts at avoiding alliteration. Unless it's an effect that you're aiming for. In prose, 99 percent of the time it just sounds bad. In poetry, it can be applied, but i don't think there are many ways it can be used well in prose. I'd be glad to hear one though. The author already responded to you (he likes your criticism xD). I think that you're right, and it's not really used in modern prose. However, it is used in poetry (as you stated), as well as older English (I believe there are alliterations used in every line in beowulf). I also would say that if it's a key line/word/saying in a fictional story, as well as a cliche, then it's okay for it to be alliterative (Do or Die, Now or Never, etc.). I sort of put the above cases into my response ("Unless it's an effect that you're aiming for"). If it's not, and you do it on accident...well, you should be proofreading xD.
1) I hate cliche.
2) Thanks for bringing my attention to the beowulf thing, I'll check that out.
3) to Psychotemplar: explain how my advice is bad?
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Those who can, do; Those who can't, teach. English teachers and people like yourselves follow arbitrary rules, and scoff when works disobey them. The audiences any author is trying to please reads what they like to read, and doesn't care for these elitist fool's rules.
The golden rule in writing is to change what you don't like, and keep what you like. If something doesn't sound good, change it, regardless of whether it obeys the rules or not. If you like something, keep it, regardless of what the rules say.
I once had someone tell me that my poetry was good to read, but that because I didn't have perfect syllable counts, it wasn't good overall. I knew this was stupid advice at the time, but I got obsessive over syllable counts for awhile anyway. Then I realised things don't always flow right when I obey such a strict and foolish rule, so I proved it stupid.
Authors who follow the rules are generally boring, pitiful, and never read for pleasure. Authors who write what they've deemed themselves good on their own, end up being praised by all but the jealous fools who can't accept that their mastery of the English language, being greater than theirs, allowed them to transcend the guidelines they learned in school.
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Ba chomp.
Ba chomp.
Ba chewy chomp chomp.
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On November 04 2008 09:29 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
Those who can, do; Those who can't, teach. English teachers and people like yourselves follow arbitrary rules, and scoff when works disobey them. The audiences any author is trying to please reads what they like to read, and doesn't care for these elitist fool's rules.
The golden rule in writing is to change what you don't like, and keep what you like. If something doesn't sound good, change it, regardless of whether it obeys the rules or not. If you like something, keep it, regardless of what the rules say.
I once had someone tell me that my poetry was good to read, but that because I didn't have perfect syllable counts, it wasn't good overall. I knew this was stupid advice at the time, but I got obsessive over syllable counts for awhile anyway. Then I realised things don't always flow right when I obey such a strict and foolish rule, so I proved it stupid.
Authors who follow the rules are generally boring, pitiful, and never read for pleasure. Authors who write what they've deemed themselves good on their own, end up being praised by all but the jealous fools who can't accept that their mastery of the English language, being greater than theirs, allowed them to transcend the guidelines they learned in school.
Alliteration in prose, in my opinion, interrupts flow and sounds like it was forced into the writing. I read it. I didn't like it.
The person who told you about syllable count is an idiot, it's true. But just because that one instance proved you right doesn't mean you get to shit on my opinion here.
Also, this may seem niggling, but I've read for pleasure all my life. So sheathe your literary penis before you slap yourself. It's not becoming.
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I'll becoming on you if you don't get out of my way, peasant.
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Nice piece! I like it and can totally see the relation to "Hills like White Elephants" lol
But, to me, the imagery was kind of unclear and confusing. I understand that you might be trying to convey the transition between darkness and light (if you are and I am not just spouting bs), but I dunno. Saying it's the morning and then describing it as if it were night is mindboggling for a second without stating further context (it's the early morning, or he is one among the first to wake up in this city, etc.)
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You dream come true Insane Lane! He's actually trying to be like Hemingway!
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On November 04 2008 09:42 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
I'll becoming on you if you don't get out of my way, peasant.
Hah, that was actually kind of clever.
I agree w/ you that rules can be broken when one sees fit, but in this case it'd have been better to scrap the alliteration.
In fact, usually alliteration just sounds forced in prose.
Also, "Peasant"? That's one of the more pretentious insults that's been hurled at me in recent memory.
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On November 04 2008 09:43 Insane Lane wrote:
Nice piece! I like it and can totally see the relation to "Hills like White Elephants" lol
But, to me, the imagery was kind of unclear and confusing. I understand that you might be trying to convey the transition between darkness and light (if you are and I am not just spouting bs), but I dunno. Saying it's the morning and then describing it as if it were night is mindboggling for a second without stating further context (it's the early morning, or he is one among the first to wake up in this city, etc.)
Lol, yeah I was contrasting the early morning as a sort of his realization that he must move on kind of thing. He's still stuck in 'darkness' let's presume, and that with time he should get over it, represented by the rising sun etc. Yeah the transition might've been crap, and it happened too fast but yeah, it was a year ago and i'd like to think my writing's got a bit better before then.
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On November 04 2008 09:45 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
You dream come true Insane Lane! He's actually trying to be like Hemingway!
Not really trying to become him, I respect him as an author cause hes a pimp and i generally enjoy his works. It'd be nice to be as good as him, but writing, to me, is just still a hobby XD.
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On November 04 2008 09:53 Tensai176 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2008 09:45 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
You dream come true Insane Lane! He's actually trying to be like Hemingway! Not really trying to become him, I respect him as an author cause hes a pimp and i generally enjoy his works. It'd be nice to be as good as him, but writing, to me, is just still a hobby XD.
Also i think we'd all prefer if you kept your brains inside your head. They're much more useful there.
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If you respect Hemingway, Insane Lane has a shrine to the guy. You don't even understand.
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I really like the mood you've struck with this piece...I don't know whether this was conscious but the sparse dialogue and simple description give off a vibe of a desolate wintry scene...which is a really pleasing effect
I'm not going to nitpick but in general you don't drop enough hints as to what exactly is going on...from the two voices you use I kind of got a feeling one was an ambiguous presence, which attests to your solid imagining of the characters...but I was totally lost as to the two silhouettes x_X It'll be hard but if you can pull off letting the reader know these two by subtle hints I will be very impressed xP
overall pleasing to read, short and sweet. :D
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On November 04 2008 09:55 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
If you respect Hemingway, Insane Lane has a shrine to the guy. You don't even understand.
It actually looks more like an altar.
And yeah at first I thought there was a girl with him, then I thought a ghost like Hamlet or Nova or something.
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Alliteration is beautiful. Read Edgar A. Poe's short stories. Filled with it.
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I disliked the excessive adverbs (e.g., slowly, quietly, gently), but nevertheless enjoyed the piece overall.
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i really hate when people tell me this (because, when they do, they're always wrong! >_<), but i think that you used some words you didn't mean to - or maybe you could have used different words to better communicate your intended thoughts. for example, i know you want to describe the surroundings as "sleepy" or something, but "dozing concrete?" really?
also, just my opinion, but the first block of dialogue is kind of annoying
i'm not criticizing the use of dialogue, but it reminds me of this:
Appearing quite listless, the boy approached.
"sup"
"hey"
"so what'd you do yesterday"
"nothing much, you?"
"eh, just chilled"
"cool"
"yeah"
"well ..."
and maybe vary up the sentence structure in the paragraph that starts with "the boy tilted his head ..." it doesn't really seem to flow as much as the rest of the piece
i don't know ... i absolutely hate getting this kind of criticism because it's mostly so subjective. whatever.
i really like the tone, though
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Writing a story this short is difficult. You've got to accomplish a lot in a short span of time.
Writing about loss is also hard. You do a good job with misdirection when you use it:
The sun was still asleep and the snow continued to pile up on the dozing concrete.
You don't mention the other girl and the boy here, but we know you're talking about it -- you're creating a mood based on the speaker's perspective. This misdirection is effective. When you write these moments, you're essentially saying, "Boy Has Experienced Loss" without actually saying it. This is a good thing.
I would suggest that you cannot write about loss. You can write about a person who has lost in a specific situation, but you can't write about loss. There's nothing wrong with having a plot that is simply: boy stands in snow thinking about a girl with another boy, boy gets on bus, the end, but there must be a sort of movement. I'm not saying a major plot event, just a movement.
For example, take a look at the Hemingway (since he was mentioned in this thread) story Hills Like White Elephants. There's not "action," it's just a man and woman having drinks at a bar, but there is a movement based on the dialogue.
Another good story that doesn't have a major plot change but which does have really amazing movement is the Donald Bartholome story "The School." Check that out.
Edit: Just to clarify: You can write about a boy boarding a bus who has lost (which is what this story is about at the moment). Writing a story about a boy who has lost is sad, but not heartbreaking, which we always attempt when we write.
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On November 04 2008 10:05 jellyfish wrote:
I'm not going to nitpick but in general you don't drop enough hints as to what exactly is going on...from the two voices you use I kind of got a feeling one was an ambiguous presence, which attests to your solid imagining of the characters...but I was totally lost as to the two silhouettes x_X It'll be hard but if you can pull off letting the reader know these two by subtle hints I will be very impressed xP
overall pleasing to read, short and sweet. :D
Nitpicking is what i wanted from the thread though, and yeah I know, before I handed it in for marks I let my brother, my cousin, my two friends read it and i told them to tell me what it was about. I got, two friends talking to eachother, a boy talking to his psychiatrist about running away from home, a boy talking about the divorce of his mother and father. Yeah, i guess i kinda wanted it in a way that can be interpreted in many ways, but you're definitely right, I didn't give enough. Strangely though, my teacher (he's amazing though) got it right away and gave me an 89+ (he likes the subtle, don't tell me anything, kinda thing.)
i really hate when people tell me this (because, when they do, they're always wrong! >_<, but i think that you used some words you didn't mean to - or maybe you could have used different words to better communicate your intended thoughts. for example, i know you want to describe the surroundings as "sleepy" or something, but "dozing concrete?" really?
also, just my opinion, but the first block of dialogue is kind of annoying
i'm not criticizing the use of dialogue, but it reminds me of this:
Appearing quite listless, the boy approached.
"sup"
"hey"
"so what'd you do yesterday"
"nothing much, you?"
"eh, just chilled"
"cool"
"yeah"
"well ..."
and maybe vary up the sentence structure in the paragraph that starts with "the boy tilted his head ..." it doesn't really seem to flow as much as the rest of the piece
You're right its mostly subjective since a writer's work, in the end, is up to the reader but almost all of the stuff I do agree with. The first sentences don't really drag you in, its a bit boring/casual talking. I didn't really know how to keep that tone, and still make it so engaging, but I needed to keep the tone above all else. I think I can do better now though, picking the right words with different combination is tricky though. Thanks for the critisms though.
I would suggest that you cannot write about loss. You can write about a person who has lost in a specific situation, but you can't write about loss. There's nothing wrong with having a plot that is simply: boy stands in snow thinking about a girl with another boy, boy gets on bus, the end, but there must be a sort of movement. I'm not saying a major plot event, just a movement.
I'm not quite sure what you meant about the other parts about loss/lost (I have an idea) but the quote above i do know where you are coming from. It does kinda seem sort've static in the idea with the dialogue and if i could re-submit with an edit I definitely would with some engagement and movement.
Hmmm, but i'm not sure where i wanted to drive the theme with this, since in the end he doesn't really solve the problem but i guess its kind of getting better.
I disliked the excessive adverbs (e.g., slowly, quietly, gently), but nevertheless enjoyed the piece overall.
lol that's actually sort've a problem I've had and everytime i proofread i would have sooo many of those. Trust me, if this story wasn't editted it would have triple amounts T_T. But i guess i will cut back a bit more, thank you.
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On November 04 2008 13:07 Tensai176 wrote:
I'm not quite sure what you meant about the other parts about loss/lost (I have an idea) but the quote above i do know where you are coming from. It does kinda seem sort've static in the idea with the dialogue and if i could re-submit with an edit I definitely would with some engagement and movement.
Hmmm, but i'm not sure where i wanted to drive the theme with this, since in the end he doesn't really solve the problem but i guess its kind of getting better.
Here's an analogy.
We begin with a man who's lost his daughter. This is sad but it's not heartbreaking, so we set it up more specifically: the daughter is 6, the man teaches kindergarten. It's take your daughter to work day and there are no daughters in the classroom.
Okay, we've got something here, but it's still not a story. You tell a story because there's a shift in mood or conclusion or event.
I agree with you -- the main character in your story does HINT at things getting better. But we barely know the girl, we don't really know what's at stake for him. He has a conversation with himself in which we infer that things might improve. That said, I don't think you should try to SOLVE anything in this story.
Let me ask this:
Why is it important that you tell this story at this specific time? What about getting on a bus (in this context) illuminates the loss your speaker is going through?
Or, more generally, what sorts of things does your speaker's loss affect? Can you put this (slightly) unstable character in an unstable situation and see what happens to him?
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On November 04 2008 13:38 DeepGreen wrote:
Why is it important that you tell this story at this specific time? What about getting on a bus (in this context) illuminates the loss your speaker is going through?
Or, more generally, what sorts of things does your speaker's loss affect? Can you put this (slightly) unstable character in an unstable situation and see what happens to him?
Yeah, now I definitely see where you're coming from but there wasn't that much of a special meaning towards the time and the bus. It was something on the lines of his feelings are kind of dormant, doesn't really know what to do, he's essentially "Frozen in time" and that's represented by the morning and him being alone and such.
The bus signifies more like time, and its the key to essentially "moving on" and when he steps on it time moves forward, the darkness starts to fade away and the like.Thats why the voice that's more like his rationalization is convincing him that the bus can take him anywhere (moving on, finding another love) and that the transfer is more of an add-on to that.It shows the speaker trying to make attempts at coming into terms with the ordeal.
Yeah, I think I would revise the beginning bit, put more 3D elements, and answer some ambiguous but necessary questions to keep the reader guessing more, and more involved with the speaker. Show them whats at stake, and why hes doing what hes doing kinda thing? That's where i see it.
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On November 04 2008 13:54 Tensai176 wrote:
Yeah, now I definitely see where you're coming from but there wasn't that much of a special meaning towards the time and the bus. It was something on the lines of his feelings are kind of dormant, doesn't really know what to do, he's essentially "Frozen in time" and that's represented by the morning and him being alone and such.
Yeah, but you picked the image of a bus picking him up. You're the bird, not the ornithologist. Don't worry about themes and symbolism and shit -- that's for the critics. Just write the story.
The bus signifies more like time, and its the key to essentially "moving on" and when he steps on it time moves forward, the darkness starts to fade away and the like.Thats why the voice that's more like his rationalization is convincing him that the bus can take him anywhere (moving on, finding another love) and that the transfer is more of an add-on to that (beyond what he thinks he can do).It shows what the speaker is trying to make attempts at coming into terms with the ordeal.
Are you telling as opposed to showing here? Sounds like you've thought about symbolism and metaphor but you haven't given a lot of thought to your character here. Again, you're writing about how human beings experiences loss, but you're neglecting to write about how a specific human being experiences loss. If this is entirely autobiographical, keep in mind that readers do not know you without you giving us something concrete.
Yeah, I think I would revise the beginning bit, put more 3D elements, and answer some ambiguous but necessary questions to keep the reader guessing more, and more involved with the speaker. Show them whats at stake, and why hes doing what hes doing kinda thing? That's where i see it.
I know what you mean, but I'd suggest not thinking about the reader. Again, just tell the story: if it's compelling (if we understand what's at stake), we'll keep reading.
By putting in more 3D elements, do you mean developing the setting? I think that's an excellent choice. Why is this kid here, why is he thinking about the girl now, where's he going? You're about to put him on a bus, he probably has a destination, which is an opportunity. He's also going to be surrounded by people, because he's on a bus, which is another opportunity. Or it's an empty bus, which is an opportunity.
I guess what I'm saying is, let's get out of his head and see how he engages with the world around him in light of what he's going through.
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I agree with a lot of what DeepGreen is saying here. I would also posit that it is better to show the reader how the main character experiences - and handles - loss rather than tell the reader about these things.
I understand the minimalist style of this piece - much like Hemmingway's piece - but as DeepGreen already pointed out, more effective dialogue is necessary to make this kind of piece successful with so few "3D elements."
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EPT
