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On September 08 2008 14:28 pokeyAA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 13:34 eshlow wrote:On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail.
Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle. Well, apparently most people didn't get the memo that saying something negative ("you're going to hell if you don't believe in Jesus") is generally not a good way to proselytize... In fact, I don't recall any proselytization in the NT where Jesus said anything remotely similar; the majority if not all the time he treated people with kindness & respect or healed them and then invited them to come follow him.. I think the point is the person saying you're going to hell is not doing it out of spite/anger, but rather out of love. Kinda like a parent telling his kids you're going to get cavities if you dont brush your teeth. Its more of a "I care about you so I'm warning you, even if you don't really want to hear it" sort of thing.
Yeah but i think it's not the right aproach, i mean they can't turn into christianity only by fear.
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Why would you want to be with someone who had different beliefs as yourself anyways? I mean.. There would be like no unity between you. It'd just be awkward. It would have happened sooner or later anyways.
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Just make her so wet in her panties that she leaves religion for you.
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On September 08 2008 14:19 NeverTheEndlessWiz wrote:
What you said is true but I think you do not have to worry or get pissed off. In fact I believe you can rejoice since you now free to find someone who upholds the same values as you. Everyone has different personal values (even among Christians!). Relationship thrive on agreement. The higher the level of agreement, the more important and stronger the relationship. To Christians, the marriage relationship is 2nd most important other than God, so I am not surprise your friend's mother reacted that way.
Being a Christian is the basic prerequisite when it comes to choosing a potential spouse. It has never been a trend. Generally this advice is a classic safeguard for younger maturing Christians looking for deeper relationships beyond friendship. Naturally your friend's mother wants to be defensive, so stay cool even if she said all that. Besides, you are more likely to impress her by staying cool than to be angry. But it is not the means to the end. Christian or non-Christian, ultimately the couple must work on agreeing major life values with each other. There are situations when 'that irreconcilable difference' was resolved, but the chances are pretty remote as far as I know.
Of coz, its also not about atheists being less superior than Christians. I have known people who are non-Christians and they uphold their own values just as highly as mine. I respect them as people and a couple of them are even my friends. I am a very close long time friend to a girl who is a atheist and we uphold each other with genuine respect. Despite of differences, both of us know exactly the type of partner we want. She currently has a boyfriend and I have my targets (she's not in my list). We even help each other (LOL)
Great post man.
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On September 08 2008 14:28 pokeyAA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 13:34 eshlow wrote:On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail.
Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle. Well, apparently most people didn't get the memo that saying something negative ("you're going to hell if you don't believe in Jesus") is generally not a good way to proselytize... In fact, I don't recall any proselytization in the NT where Jesus said anything remotely similar; the majority if not all the time he treated people with kindness & respect or healed them and then invited them to come follow him.. I think the point is the person saying you're going to hell is not doing it out of spite/anger, but rather out of love. Kinda like a parent telling his kids you're going to get cavities if you dont brush your teeth. Its more of a "I care about you so I'm warning you, even if you don't really want to hear it" sort of thing.
Hahaha...let's be honest. How many of those people who preach fire and brimstone are actually saying it out of true love? I grew up in church (and am a Christian) but I have to say, I always thought it was bullshit when people said that. It is extremely rare (and I have never seen it) to see someone actually tell someone that they are going to hell out of love. Most of the time it's just a foolish attempt at convincing another person to believe what you believe.
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If you need to believe in God to make up for your insecurities as a human being, then by all means...
And yes, I'm going to Hell. Can somebody point me in the right direction please? I think it's down (?).
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On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:39 Folca wrote:On September 08 2008 12:38 Kennigit wrote:On September 08 2008 12:34 Folca wrote:
Christians are almost always very misleaded, such as
"Is it right for a lot of Christians to tell people who are non-believers that they're going to hell in attempts to convert them... when Jesus says love your neighbor as yourself?"
Christians dont quite understand to have a gentle saying, instead of an almost "hypocrite" sort of talking -.-
:edit: does that make any sense? Keep your generalized bullshit comments to yourself I'll take that as a yes Lol. How do you not see what you originally said as a blatant generalization, something with no merit whatsoever? "Christians don't quite understand--" epic fail. Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail. Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle. As for the OP, It's sad but it's true, and actually quite legitimate. A lot of people don't want to date people who aren't of the same faith. It's not that odd or wrong in anyway. It's personal preference. Like not dating a smoker. Would you date a muslim? Maybe. Maybe not. I know that as an American there are a lot of skewed vision of Islam floating around, so you might be reserved there. A lot of Americans wouldn't.. how's that very different? (Not a drastic generalization because of the qualifier.) Some people can't get past certain beliefs, and some people feel more comfortable with people of the same belief. When you're choosing to commit yourself to someone, it's good to assure yourself a deep connection, a deeper connection than you can find somewhere else. The fact that you don't share the faith means that you are missing out on a very powerful connection. That's not my way of saying you're wrong for not being Christian. Faith, being the most powerful force in the world, has so much power within it, that when you share it with someone, nomatter what the faith is, it's incredibly powerful. It allows you two to connect on a spiritual level aswell. Anyway, that's my opinion. It happens, and it sorta sucks for you... but it's not wrong.
In your humble opinion. Never state anything as arrogant or naive as that as fact.
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On September 08 2008 16:25 Romance_us wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:On September 08 2008 12:39 Folca wrote:On September 08 2008 12:38 Kennigit wrote:On September 08 2008 12:34 Folca wrote:
Christians are almost always very misleaded, such as
"Is it right for a lot of Christians to tell people who are non-believers that they're going to hell in attempts to convert them... when Jesus says love your neighbor as yourself?"
Christians dont quite understand to have a gentle saying, instead of an almost "hypocrite" sort of talking -.-
:edit: does that make any sense? Keep your generalized bullshit comments to yourself I'll take that as a yes Lol. How do you not see what you originally said as a blatant generalization, something with no merit whatsoever? "Christians don't quite understand--" epic fail. Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail. Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle. As for the OP, It's sad but it's true, and actually quite legitimate. A lot of people don't want to date people who aren't of the same faith. It's not that odd or wrong in anyway. It's personal preference. Like not dating a smoker. Would you date a muslim? Maybe. Maybe not. I know that as an American there are a lot of skewed vision of Islam floating around, so you might be reserved there. A lot of Americans wouldn't.. how's that very different? (Not a drastic generalization because of the qualifier.) Some people can't get past certain beliefs, and some people feel more comfortable with people of the same belief. When you're choosing to commit yourself to someone, it's good to assure yourself a deep connection, a deeper connection than you can find somewhere else. The fact that you don't share the faith means that you are missing out on a very powerful connection. That's not my way of saying you're wrong for not being Christian. Faith, being the most powerful force in the world, has so much power within it, that when you share it with someone, nomatter what the faith is, it's incredibly powerful. It allows you two to connect on a spiritual level aswell. Anyway, that's my opinion. It happens, and it sorta sucks for you... but it's not wrong. In your humble opinion. Never state anything as arrogant or naive as that as fact.
He said it was is opinion.....did he forget the word "humble"?
lol
+ Show Spoiler +On September 08 2008 12:38 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:34 Folca wrote:
Christians are almost always very misleaded, such as
"Is it right for a lot of Christians to tell people who are non-believers that they're going to hell in attempts to convert them... when Jesus says love your neighbor as yourself?"
Christians dont quite understand to have a gentle saying, instead of an almost "hypocrite" sort of talking -.-
:edit: does that make any sense? Keep your generalized bullshit comments to yourself On September 08 2008 12:39 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:12 Mindcrime wrote:On September 08 2008 12:10 Mastermind wrote:On September 08 2008 12:06 Track wrote:
More and more I find there is a trend developing among Christian girls.
I was "talking" seriously with a girl for a long time, a devout Christian. We dated all year, and up into August. Our differing faiths(I'm an agnostic/atheist) were never a point of contention. However, her mother just shared with me that "until [we] share a faith in Jesus Christ there will never be anything substantial as a relationship."
Woow. That pisses me off. Why is it that since I don't believe in the same deity as these women I'm suddenly inferior? Nor is this the first time I've experienced such bigotry! It's happened on at least three different separate occasions. What the hell? implicit in most religious teachings is the belief that the follows are some how better than the non followers. If by "most", you mean Christianity and Islam, then yes. Christianity, Islam and Judaism...its because they all follow the teachings of abraham. essentially they are all the same with a few tweaks. don't quite know what to say here..
And to the OP. I would probably suggest that you do not date anymore christian women. In a way, her mother is right. You and the girl may get along pretty well, but in general its pretty difficult to have a close relationship (without friction) with someone with fundamentally different beliefs. You don't even have to be a christian to understand how that is possible.
However, to say nothing "substantial" is possible is very flawed. Poor choice of words.
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On September 08 2008 16:04 Centric wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 14:28 pokeyAA wrote:On September 08 2008 13:34 eshlow wrote:On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail.
Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle. Well, apparently most people didn't get the memo that saying something negative ("you're going to hell if you don't believe in Jesus") is generally not a good way to proselytize... In fact, I don't recall any proselytization in the NT where Jesus said anything remotely similar; the majority if not all the time he treated people with kindness & respect or healed them and then invited them to come follow him.. I think the point is the person saying you're going to hell is not doing it out of spite/anger, but rather out of love. Kinda like a parent telling his kids you're going to get cavities if you dont brush your teeth. Its more of a "I care about you so I'm warning you, even if you don't really want to hear it" sort of thing. Hahaha...let's be honest. How many of those people who preach fire and brimstone are actually saying it out of true love? I grew up in church (and am a Christian) but I have to say, I always thought it was bullshit when people said that. It is extremely rare (and I have never seen it) to see someone actually tell someone that they are going to hell out of love. Most of the time it's just a foolish attempt at convincing another person to believe what you believe.
Maybe not out of love, maybe straightfoward honesty? I have seen a lot of people ask christians So you think i'll go to hell if I dont believe in Jesus?!!! and get all indignant if the christian says yes in a straightfoward manner. Thats just what Christians believe, there's no avoiding the subject. Thats what I think happens more than some random guy out on the streets preaching fire and brimstone.
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CA10829 Posts
On September 08 2008 13:34 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail.
Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle. Well, apparently most people didn't get the memo that saying something negative ("you're going to hell if you don't believe in Jesus") is generally not a good way to proselytize... In fact, I don't recall any proselytization in the NT where Jesus said anything remotely similar; the majority if not all the time he treated people with kindness & respect or healed them and then invited them to come follow him..
my father is a pastor. growing up, i've met many many different pastors. none of them approve of the 'fire and brimstone' approach. in fact, my previous pastor here at college (he left to go back to school and get his phd) actually argued with a guy who was doing that at a college campus in front of hundreds of students.
i'm not quite sure why people get the idea of evangelism as this type of ministry. it's really in the very small minority, but i guess it's the only type that gets media coverage...
so basically i don't really get your comment of "most people didn't get the memo".
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Ive had my fair share of religious intolerance. As you may know, Mexico is a country which was raised by religion and as such the vast majority of the people here are pretty.. religious.
When I was in primary, in my 2nd year I had this teacher that made us pray at the beginning of each class, of course Ive been a complete skeptic for most of my life so I didnt pray and it wasnt long before the teacher started calling me names and suggested for me to be expelled (it wasnt a catholic school or anything by the way).
My mothers side of the family is deeply catholic, specially my uncle's family, they would never let my cousins anywhere near me just because im not baptized.
In highschool, it was just awesome how each year they gave us a counselor and whenever the religion question came up, and then most would be catholics, 10 or so would be cristians, 5 would be of whatever other religion, and that was fine and awesome and interesting to know about other people beliefs and the diversity in school and whatever other bullshit. But then the lone atheist said what he was and that was followed by this awkward silence and some even dared to ask "but why?".
Theres this evangelical church next to me, on tuesdays and thursdays you can hear their woes all night from the whole block, theyre sometimes worse than college kids, anyway, they have this piano so I asked the owner if I could play it, immediately he asked if I shared their beliefs, and when I said no, well it turns out that the piano was sacred, and I was just not worthy of playing it, wtf?.
And its just everywhere, I went to a hindi restaurant in usa, where they wouldnt let islamic people inside when they call themselves tolerant and respectful.
Anyway, the kind of religious person ive found the most tolerant and the easiest to argue with are the kind that dont really give a shit, they dont go to church on sundays nor they refuse to eat pork or whatever on certain days, the kind of people that just invoke their god when something goes wrong or goes really good, fakers that still feel attached in some weird way to their sorrounding's religion.
Yes Im generalizing and Im saying religion sucks balls and Im basing my opinion on a bunch of examples Ive had in my life, yes Ive met a bunch of deeply religious people that are perfectly fine with others beliefs, that even believe in parasites and germs, but I have not met a single one that can take an argument against his/her religion in a good way.
/rant
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If you have to, you could also fake it. There are quite a few hypocritical people, i.e. those who don't give a shit about religion all year long, but then go to church on christmas because "that's what one has to do".
The Christian religion is still strongly integrated in society, especially in like funerals, marriages, and some holidays. It's impossible to live your life without taking part in any of this, so you might as well just say "yeah I believe in god but I'm not going to church because that's stupid, and Catholicism is bad anyway (which is true :p)" or w/e but in reality you just don't give a shit about it.
Ok, after you already said you're an UNBELIEVER - BURRRNNNN!!! it's of course harder to do so, but anyway. It's something you maybe should have done from the start.
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On September 08 2008 16:55 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 13:34 eshlow wrote:On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail.
Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle. Well, apparently most people didn't get the memo that saying something negative ("you're going to hell if you don't believe in Jesus") is generally not a good way to proselytize... In fact, I don't recall any proselytization in the NT where Jesus said anything remotely similar; the majority if not all the time he treated people with kindness & respect or healed them and then invited them to come follow him.. my father is a pastor. growing up, i've met many many different pastors. none of them approve of the 'fire and brimstone' approach. in fact, my previous pastor here at college (he left to go back to school and get his phd) actually argued with a guy who was doing that at a college campus in front of hundreds of students. i'm not quite sure why people get the idea of evangelism as this type of ministry. it's really in the very small minority, but i guess it's the only type that gets media coverage... so basically i don't really get your comment of "most people didn't get the memo".
I don't know if you're been to the US before or anything, but a lot of the denominations here take the fire and brimstone approach of evangelism (at least it seems that way from most of the people I've talked to).
Well, that and it always seems that the F&B approach is the one that's always on television if you flip to those channels like you said. The media likes to make people seem controversial or look bad.
Plus, that's generally the first thing that's brought up when discussing the topic with someone.. as 'kinda' noted in this thread. The general idea of F&B or of Christians believing they're "better" than everyone else; the underlying concept is very similar. 
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On September 08 2008 12:18 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:13 Meta wrote:
They don't want their daughter dating a hell-bound heathen, can you really blame them? Strongly disagree. If her parents really think that then they're retarded.
They're Christians...
Edit:And just to clarify exactly what I mean by that, they are retarded and that is what they believe -_-
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My advice: don't go out with a christian.
By the way, I agree with her: I don't have anything to do with someone who believes in Christian values, and therefore, I wouldn't go into a deep relationship with her.
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On September 08 2008 12:34 Folca wrote:
Christians are almost always very misleaded, such as
"Is it right for a lot of Christians to tell people who are non-believers that they're going to hell in attempts to convert them... when Jesus says love your neighbor as yourself?"
Christians dont quite understand to have a gentle saying, instead of an almost "hypocrite" sort of talking -.-
:edit: does that make any sense?
no, it doesn't.
Jesus says to "love your neighbor as yourself", and if your neighbor is an unbeliever and is going to hell, then wouldn't you want him to not go to hell? So, according to Christianity, you have to convert him.
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Don't get involved with christians and never fall in love with a christian girl. They are the most pityful, close minded people you could find on this world. Remember, no one is as racist as christian believers.
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On September 08 2008 20:56 iG.ClouD wrote:
Don't get involved with christians and never fall in love with a christian girl. They are the most pityful, close minded people you could find on this world. Remember, no one is as racist as christian believers.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On September 08 2008 20:56 iG.ClouD wrote:
Don't get involved with christians and never fall in love with a christian girl. They are the most pityful, close minded people you could find on this world. Remember, no one is as racist as christian believers.
I hate italians.
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Just make her so wet in her panties that she leaves religion for you.
QFT
True love conquers all <3 Even ridiculous religions.
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EPT
