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Although there is no real APM License to play any race, it feels like I'm not a "mature" zerg player if my APM is not over 200. I know that APM doesn't determine much but it is an issue with myself, letting myself know how much I've improved over these past months.
Well basically, after I quit playing Protoss (my 1st race), my APM was around 120~130. I kept playing little by little, and improved to 140 around. And from this point, no matter what I did, my APM would not go up. And there was a thread in TL.net about some guy who kept practicing verse computers with the sole intention of raising APM and he said that it actually paid off. Well I did the same thing, I saved the replays as "APM1" "APM2" and measured it afterwards.
From then on, my APM shot up to 180~190. And after having a lan game with my roommate, I realized that it consistently goes up to a bit over 200 today. VAPM 200+ I believe.
I know that this kind of blog sounds like bragging but I feel like my past games of starcraft kind of paid off and I am feeling sadly, but surely proud of myself. To think, a pro gamer with my APM as a zerg can own leagues (cough savior)
Its not a big deal but I just had to get my rant out of the system. Thanks for listening
 
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APM does mean something =p. It controls your ability to do certain strategies and play certain races to their full effectiveness. You can't play terran effectively if you have 80 APM. You have to control your army, macro, scan around, irradiate, stim, siege, all of which won't fit in 80 APM at a certain point.
Anyways, glad to hear that that method worked for someone. How I got faster was to just "think" about going faster for awhile in games (doing nothing different, just doing it faster). This gradually helped me move faster.
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On September 04 2008 14:36 Tropics wrote:
apm is meaningless
Yes your not a real zerg player unless you are over 200 in competetive games. Period.
Not up for debate ..... PERIOD.
Now play terran for 1 week and learn how to use your mouse along with your keyboard and you'll be that much closer to a more important accomplishment..... A Good Player!
(edit: I think I did get the wrong person. SORRY TROPICS!)
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United States1654 Posts
Savior averaged about 250 APM I think, so you still have a bit more to go. 
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As (I want to give credit to intothewow, but I'm not entirely certain that this credit is going to the right person) IntotheWow said, APM high isn't necessarily indicative of skill.
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my apm is arround 160 and in every single game im like:
"omg! i cant do everything i wanna do! faster faster faster! oh noes! ill lose that shit! fuck!!!!"
result: bad larva use, bad defense and offense, bad multiple defense, bad micro and macro, a lot of idle units... one more game lost.
so apm is meaningful, at least for me
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On September 04 2008 14:44 thunk wrote:
As (I want to give credit to intothewow, but I'm not entirely certain that this credit is going to the right person) IntotheWow said, APM high isn't necessarily indicative of skill.
Yes, we all know.
However, while high APM doesn't require a good player, a good player requires high APM. Februarys is simply fulfilling the high APM part first. 
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i can play sk terran with 90 apm ez
and zerg typically requires lower apm than terran
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 Huzzah!
What was your apm before you switched? Like when you still played protoss?
I'm a toss player and my apm floats around 170-220. When I offrace my apm is still like 150. I feel like a lot of the same general techniques stay. Keeping worker production, keeping track of an army, macroing, etc. It seems like most of the skills carry over, with the main lacking point being game sense and build orders.
That thread about having over 300 apm in the vs computer games and staying below 300 mins helped me a lot too ^.^ I was struggling at about 130-140 apm before I did that excersize and got my apm past the barrier and up to about 170, at which point it seems to slowly rise nowadays.
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When I used to play Protoss, it was like 110 around. But then again, I didn't know how to use hotkeys during that time and instead heavily relied on F2, F3, F4 keys.
I think what really made my APM go up is that I just kept remembering to not stay idle and not watch the action (the micro'ing and fighting) and instead keep up the production
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On September 04 2008 14:36 Tropics wrote:
apm is meaningless
tell that to Jaedong moootheerrfuckkkkerr!!
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On September 04 2008 14:42 AttackZerg wrote:Yes your not a real zerg player unless you are over 200 in competetive games. Period. Not up for debate ..... PERIOD.
what about mondragon? T_T Or Testie?
oh real means Progamer?
yes u wont be a Progamer with less then 200 apm. Hell u wont be a progamer with more then 200 either.
wait are u retarded then? O.o
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in the 1,000 + replays of mondragon i have, he's got an average apm of 210, and these are quite old too 
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On September 04 2008 15:19 KrAzYfoOL wrote:in the 1,000 + replays of mondragon i have, he's got an average apm of 210, and these are quite old too
what's your point? you wanna dig deeper trying to find good zergs with actual apm lower then 200? and if Mondragon had 180-190 in some important games wouldn't that make u wrong anyways?
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A little bit off topic, but its almost necessary to be able to go to 200-250 apm TvZ, atleast late game, averaging out at about 180 or so, just macroing and moving your army will get you there easy, and add dropship + irradiate and stim, you'll be peaking at 300 in no time. This will help you get faster, and you can switch back to zerg with your new found speed and rape :D.
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On September 04 2008 15:29 rottedchode wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2008 15:19 KrAzYfoOL wrote:in the 1,000 + replays of mondragon i have, he's got an average apm of 210, and these are quite old too what's your point? you wanna dig deeper trying to find good zergs with actual apm lower then 200? and if Mondragon had 180-190 in some important games wouldn't that make u wrong anyways?
what if he had 180-190 apm in important games that would disprove him averaging 210apm in a thousand games?
god you are fucking STUPID
download his TSL replay pack, open bwchart, click the players tab, and see for yourself you clueless motherfucker.
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On September 04 2008 16:31 KrAzYfoOL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2008 15:29 rottedchode wrote:On September 04 2008 15:19 KrAzYfoOL wrote:in the 1,000 + replays of mondragon i have, he's got an average apm of 210, and these are quite old too what's your point? you wanna dig deeper trying to find good zergs with actual apm lower then 200? and if Mondragon had 180-190 in some important games wouldn't that make u wrong anyways? what if he had 180-190 apm in important games that would disprove him averaging 210apm in a thousand games? god you are fucking STUPID download his TSL replay pack, open bwchart, click the players tab, and see for yourself you clueless motherfucker.
rawr
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people with low apm say that apm is meaningless. --sour grapes--
low apm people always think high apm = useless apm. wrong =(
Obviously if you have 100apm and can do everything that is required of you then wow good for you... but can you? Are you using up all your money? training all the units you need, upgrading all you need, positioning your army where they need to be, expanding, harassing etc.
When you have a low apm there is just THAT much you can do. That's it, that's your limit. Anything more that comes along that needs you will go past undone.
If you have low apm and think you're doing just fine, then play better people.
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high useful apm is good
high wasteful apm < low useful apm or about the same
i think it's measured by your Eapm with chaos? when the apm is all Eapm then it's 100% useful
So for example, 200 apm however with perfect 200 eapm would easily beat , or have an easier time beating, a 300 apm with only 150 eapm
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@op whats your iccup level?
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On September 04 2008 14:42 AttackZerg wrote:So are you and your constant apm related posts.
wat
you got the wrong guy
My point was that from the sounds of the OP all that mattered was that little number next to his APM live or whatever, which isn't true. It really sounded as if he was just spamming to hit his quota, and by that, it's completely meaningless. Your effective apm is so much more important and let's say for example you were D with 200 apm, you could keep that 200 apm and still hit C or B without it changing, your eAPM would skyrocket.
don't spam, let your apm come to you naturally. There's no point playing at an uncomfortable rate.
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I can tell you that 150 useful APM is *nowhere* near enough after 12-15 minutes into the game, after the game has developed into a typical macro game. You NEED 200+ if you want to become really good. The more the better - you'll have faster reaction times and can simply do more things at once. Players saying that APM is meaningless either don't play at the very high levels or they're somehow stuck in like 2004 or so when Fisheye owned everyone with 150 APM.
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Apm alone means nothing.
You must take quality into account and it's mostly from precision and ability to focus.
If you lack those you may end up with over 50% trash actions which is worthless.
The formula would be : APM * Quality
Which is not good eigher if you have too low APM nor too low Quality
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On September 04 2008 15:16 rottedchode wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2008 14:42 AttackZerg wrote:On September 04 2008 14:36 Tropics wrote:
apm is meaningless Yes your not a real zerg player unless you are over 200 in competetive games. Period. Not up for debate ..... PERIOD. what about mondragon? T_T Or Testie? oh real means Progamer? yes u wont be a Progamer with less then 200 apm. Hell u wont be a progamer with more then 200 either. wait are u retarded then? O.o
Ok you have 16 posts and judging from this one, you are pretty fucking stupid, but I'll be kind and respond.
Mondragon has been over 200 apm for years. Testie is not a zerg user, but he can play a wicked ZvP. Testies Apm in tournament games with zerg is between 180-200 from what I remember vs foru at wcg.
Show some respect faggot. You've been here how many days and are calling somebody retarded with your korean wanna-be incoherant fragmented post. And nobody was talking about being a pro gamer.
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APM is only indicative of anything if it is on the very low or very high end.
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I believe every non-korean to get a win off a pro in spirit was over 300 apm.....
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On September 04 2008 17:21 HeavOnEarth wrote:
high useful apm is good
high wasteful apm < low useful apm or about the same
i think it's measured by your Eapm with chaos? when the apm is all Eapm then it's 100% useful
So for example, 200 apm however with perfect 200 eapm would easily beat , or have an easier time beating, a 300 apm with only 150 eapm
You can measure eapm with chaos? Didn't know that. How?
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On September 04 2008 16:31 KrAzYfoOL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2008 15:29 rottedchode wrote:On September 04 2008 15:19 KrAzYfoOL wrote:in the 1,000 + replays of mondragon i have, he's got an average apm of 210, and these are quite old too what's your point? you wanna dig deeper trying to find good zergs with actual apm lower then 200? and if Mondragon had 180-190 in some important games wouldn't that make u wrong anyways? what if he had 180-190 apm in important games that would disprove him averaging 210apm in a thousand games? god you are fucking STUPID download his TSL replay pack, open bwchart, click the players tab, and see for yourself you clueless motherfucker.
watch your language garbage. You're the dumb one since not breaking 200 in important game still doesnt make him a bad player in that game( read post of Attackzerg) And he had MANY of those. So your battle cry went for nothing, pretty pitiful.
On September 04 2008 18:44 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2008 15:16 rottedchode wrote:On September 04 2008 14:42 AttackZerg wrote:On September 04 2008 14:36 Tropics wrote:
apm is meaningless Yes your not a real zerg player unless you are over 200 in competetive games. Period. Not up for debate ..... PERIOD. what about mondragon? T_T Or Testie? oh real means Progamer? yes u wont be a Progamer with less then 200 apm. Hell u wont be a progamer with more then 200 either. wait are u retarded then? O.o Ok you have 16 posts and judging from this one, you are pretty fucking stupid, but I'll be kind and respond. Mondragon has been over 200 apm for years. Testie is not a zerg user, but he can play a wicked ZvP. Testies Apm in tournament games with zerg is between 180-200 from what I remember vs foru at wcg. Show some respect faggot. You've been here how many days and are calling somebody retarded with your korean wanna-be incoherant fragmented post. And nobody was talking about being a pro gamer.
I don't care for you to respond, you can keep it to yourself and wipe the drool off your chin. Testie had apm much lower then this. Everyone knows that, funny that u make shit up to prove some nonexistent point. And Mondragon had shitloads of games below 200, read above. Like i said, i am truly careless about some garbage washed up C+ end of season zerg user whos twisting the facts only to get off in a dumb argument. And why u bring up my post count, thats the last resort of a helpless faggot.
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As long as your APM is > 110 it doesn't really matter. If it's < 110 then just go play protoss :D
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To a certain degree, APM are important, but as soon as you pass the 150 APM barrier, it's not as important anymore. Also, APM do not necessarily reflect a player's skill. For example, I average at 300 APM/160 EAPM in all match-ups, which would lead you to think that I would be around C somewhere, but in fact, I struggle to reach D+..
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On September 04 2008 23:36 d1v wrote:
To a certain degree, APM are important, but as soon as you pass the 150 APM barrier, it's not as important anymore. Also, APM do not necessarily reflect a player's skill. For example, I average at 300 APM/160 EAPM in all match-ups, which would lead you to think that I would be around C somewhere, but in fact, I struggle to reach D+..
I don't understand players who have so much APM and are D+. What the hell are you doing?
I run 150 on average and I'm a decent C rank, C+ high.
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rottedchode please download last years wcg germany replay pack, this years wcg germany replay pack and last years international wcg replay pack, you'll come to the realization that in important events mondragon's apm is higher.
i HONESTLY do not know where you're getting the idea that his apm drops during important games (this is implying that he'd be putting the effort to raise his apm in friendly games and not in important games, which is just plain stupid.)
my only conclusion is that your facts are lagging behind by 4-5years.
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so much hate in this thread, I'm not trying to brag or say APM is that special;; I just wanted to write a blog about this
On September 04 2008 17:37 jimminy_kriket wrote:
@op whats your iccup level?
I don't play on iccup because
1. I'm intimidated by the skills of players there
2. I hate bnet latency, especially since I'm a zerg player
3. I have easy access to lan games with my roommates and friends in real life
But my training partner buddy is C on iccup, or so I heard
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dude if you hate bnet latency you must play iccup. the latency change is everything you need as a zerg, specialy for muta harassment.
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On September 04 2008 23:57 Straylight wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2008 23:36 d1v wrote:
To a certain degree, APM are important, but as soon as you pass the 150 APM barrier, it's not as important anymore. Also, APM do not necessarily reflect a player's skill. For example, I average at 300 APM/160 EAPM in all match-ups, which would lead you to think that I would be around C somewhere, but in fact, I struggle to reach D+.. I don't understand players who have so much APM and are D+. What the hell are you doing? I run 150 on average and I'm a decent C rank, C+ high.
Well, I get cheesed a lot and I often overestimate my opponents strength, which allows them to come back. My total of played ICCUP games is probably lower than 200, so I'm not such an experienced player, but my mechanics are ok.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
My apm is sub 200 and I spam like a mother fucker. I have beaten a laundry list of top pros. Do I think I am anywhere near them in terms of skill? Absolutely not. The point I am trying to make is that as a zerg player you can be dangerous and win big games, even series with relatively unstellar apm. People need to get off that glorification. Apm is obviously crucial if you want to go pro but for us casual/foreign competetive gamers it isn't the end all.
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On September 05 2008 04:24 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
My apm is sub 200 and I spam like a mother fucker. I have beaten a laundry list of top pros. Do I think I am anywhere near them in terms of skill? Absolutely not. The point I am trying to make is that as a zerg player you can be dangerous and win big games, even series with relatively unstellar apm. People need to get off that glorification. Apm is obviously crucial if you want to go pro but for us casual/foreign competetive gamers it isn't the end all.
I pretty much agree with your post. If you're below 200 APM however, you have to use your APM for the really important things.
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your ability to play determines your apm..
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if you have lower than 200 apm then please go hide in a hole.
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APM = bottleneck. Nothing more, nothing less.
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On September 04 2008 23:57 Straylight wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2008 23:36 d1v wrote:
To a certain degree, APM are important, but as soon as you pass the 150 APM barrier, it's not as important anymore. Also, APM do not necessarily reflect a player's skill. For example, I average at 300 APM/160 EAPM in all match-ups, which would lead you to think that I would be around C somewhere, but in fact, I struggle to reach D+.. I don't understand players who have so much APM and are D+. What the hell are you doing? I run 150 on average and I'm a decent C rank, C+ high.
i played a 7-7 korean with like 270..
+ Show Spoiler +
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On September 04 2008 22:19 TheNikeYork wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2008 17:21 HeavOnEarth wrote:
high useful apm is good
high wasteful apm < low useful apm or about the same
i think it's measured by your Eapm with chaos? when the apm is all Eapm then it's 100% useful
So for example, 200 apm however with perfect 200 eapm would easily beat , or have an easier time beating, a 300 apm with only 150 eapm
You can measure eapm with chaos? Didn't know that. How?
oh you type /last right after a game that uses chaos or you can look at the stats on bwchart ~
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On September 04 2008 23:19 Kletus wrote:
As long as your APM is > 110 it doesn't really matter. If it's < 110 then just go play protoss :D
Yeah, and if you can't win any of your games, bitch about how your opponents play a noob race. :D
It certianly matters what sort of apm you're CAPABLE of effectively using, but average apm is a really shitty indicator of skill. I've seen B level players with 130 apm. I've seen D- players with 200 apm. My apm has gone down over the last few months, but I've gotten better. I focus on more efficient and precise actions.
On September 05 2008 04:24 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
My apm is sub 200 and I spam like a mother fucker. I have beaten a laundry list of top pros. Do I think I am anywhere near them in terms of skill? Absolutely not. The point I am trying to make is that as a zerg player you can be dangerous and win big games, even series with relatively unstellar apm. People need to get off that glorification. Apm is obviously crucial if you want to go pro but for us casual/foreign competetive gamers it isn't the end all.
And he should know because he's more accomplished than most of you will ever be, thread over.
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On September 04 2008 14:57 Caller wrote:
i can play sk terran with 90 apm ez
and zerg typically requires lower apm than terran
I don't want to be polemic but I have 2 replays of Nazgul winning Boxer in a BO5 (that he finally lost) with 115-120 apm. It was a long time ago, but it still means it's still possible to play cery well with a low apm.
I would say that for a terran player, 160 without spam is a minimum.
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ummmm....Biff The Understudy starcraft has completely changed since nazgul's era, no longer can you win with pure strategy or micro alone like back in those times, have you like ever watched a recent pro league match?
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On September 05 2008 23:30 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2008 14:57 Caller wrote:
i can play sk terran with 90 apm ez
and zerg typically requires lower apm than terran I don't want to be polemic but I have 2 replays of Nazgul winning Boxer in a BO5 (that he finally lost) with 115-120 apm. It was a long time ago, but it still means it's still possible to play cery well with a low apm. I would say that for a terran player, 160 without spam is a minimum.
I can do SK well with 170~ fairly easy(This strategy is usually where my apm is the highest ~_~..)
And back then itwas micro now its a mix of micro/macro(mostly macro)
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On September 04 2008 17:15 pyrogenetix wrote:
people with low apm say that apm is meaningless. --sour grapes--
low apm people always think high apm = useless apm. wrong =(
Obviously if you have 100apm and can do everything that is required of you then wow good for you... but can you? Are you using up all your money? training all the units you need, upgrading all you need, positioning your army where they need to be, expanding, harassing etc.
When you have a low apm there is just THAT much you can do. That's it, that's your limit. Anything more that comes along that needs you will go past undone.
If you have low apm and think you're doing just fine, then play better people.
win.
I have like 180 on average but I still think I got a lot more to do, I think to have your micro/macro/timing spot on you need at least 230 APM.
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On September 04 2008 14:57 Caller wrote:
i can play sk terran with 90 apm ez
and zerg typically requires lower apm than terran
To what rank?
I'm sorry, but if you make it past D with 90 apm Terran, you're one of the few that can. (Or should)
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the 1st thing i ask anybody b4 i say hi is "whats ur apm?"
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EPT
