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Blood Bath Oasis

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Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States228 Posts
May 03 2008 20:22 GMT
#1
[image loading]

<download latest version of the map (1.0)>
<download obs>

The primary purpose of this map is to balance all of the starting positions, while keeping the same game play of the original blood bath. Spor's map is good, but since it keeps the same basic shape as the original it is impossible to balance some things like how easy it so to protect far 3 minerals and how tanks can cover the entire adjacent bridge in some spots but not all.

The secondary goal of the map is to attempt to fix some racial balance issues. This is difficult because the map is so non standard and we haven't seen hundreds of games between pros on it, thus we don't really know how to best exploit every advantage and which race has an overall advantage (this is precisely why I like bb since we have to figure it out ourselves). In general I feel it is fairly safe to say T>Z, P>T (early game), T>P (later game if terran's economy is equal). ZvP seems to be the closest and I personally think P has a slight advantage. I will not go too far out of my way to fix balance, that would conflict with the first goal, instead I will try to choose features that already exist in some start locations and put them in all positions if they help balance.

Here is mineral/gas timing test if interested: + Show Spoiler +

12 workers on minerals for 10 minutes with trigger to stop precisely.

minerals protoss terran zerg
top left 6912 6944 6896
top right 7024 6880 6896
bottom right 7024 6896* 6840
bottom left 6976 6904 6824
* 6816 when tried with comsat in place

3 workers on gas for 10 mins
gas protoss terran zerg
top left 2768 2880 2880
top right 2736** 2768*** 2768
bottom right 2768* 2768* 2688*
bottom left 2768 2784 2784
*with 2x3 building under geyser (always do this, same as original bb)
**with a comsat center in place mining was much worse, 2480, use 4 scv if you have comsat
***with pylon built where indicated by 2x2 box (worse without)

For the curious optimal mining (30+scvs) is 11496 minerals in that time and 3072 gas. Thus none of the positions are optimal at mining gas with 3, but with proper building placement they are all very close to each other. Except if you are terran in top right and have a comsat station which is about 250 gas worse in 10 minutes. However if you are really serious about gas you should have 4 on gas, which chances are, you would want to do regardless of position if gas is that important to you.


Feature list / differences from original blood bath, by version added:

1.0
-Closer, balanced and symmetrical mineral/gas placement (it was especially bad for terran in bottom left)
-Gas is equally harassable in all positions (it was protected in bottom left before)
-Tanks can now range about half of adjacent bridges from protected area, original had some bridges susceptible to complete cover and others none
-Workers can now see minerals across each gap (useful for drilling)
-All 4 positions have minerals near the bridge (useful for zerg getting mins+choke control)
-All 4 positions have an equally wide secondary choke point (similar to the original's top right spot)
......Useful for terran and zerg who often cannot get main choke control
......There is a doodad here which only zerglings can squeeze between (not marine/zealot)
......Can be extended further with spawning pool or supply depot
-Room behind all starting locations minerals
-Center is now in the exact center (original had it down and to the right slightly)
-Place for overlords to hide from marines (the big tar pits, although not that good of a spot, it's better than nothing). I tried to make it so they couldn't be hit from marines in the 4 holes near center, but it just required too much other game changing changes.
-Attempted balance of sunken range on bridge (original had it so some areas could not break a zealot contain with sunkens but others could). It is not totally balanced still though, creep just doesn't like to go near cliffs, it should be slightly better than original bb, but not perfect.
-All positions wallable with 2 depots and a barracks, indicators to make it clear how (marines all pop in safe zone too)

UMS features
These are some simple features which should be in ALL maps. Note the non observer map still has these, just without the 4 extra observer slots.

-Player not forced to leave after elimination (their units all given to p12 like normal still)
-Message when player eliminated
-Convert player into observer mode if they lift cc before doing anything else

##########################################
I would like to make this map as good as it can be while keeping it true to blood bath. Please post any suggestions or problems with the latest version.

*****
8882
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
2718 Posts
May 03 2008 20:41 GMT
#2
I will definitely give it a try, as I mostly play the pink blood bath, which has some mineral mining issues.
Did you remove 1 mineral formation? Because often PvZs end up with 1base protoss with clear main vs 1 base zerg (at least for me) and that 1 mineral formation is necessary.

I think there is too much space between the bases. I mean I think the siege tanks seem to be able to get great range due to the extended terrain (cant they just shoot nearly through the whole ramp, if they just stay on that spot between east-west? There are no such things when the opponents play north-south positions.

What exactly is the 2nd choke thing? The crashed vultures? Because at top right I often make a sort of a wall, of 2 barracks, which seems to be ruined by that.
I have returned
flag
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States228 Posts
May 03 2008 22:45 GMT
#3
I have not heard of pink blood bath before. I don't know what you mean by that 1 mineral formation, but after you use up your 8x1500 near main, there are still the outer 2x3x3000 minerals for mining (same as orig).

I agree that PvT on cross position is alot different than adjacent, but there is simply no way to change it so that their tanks can hit the opposite ramp. It is pretty close to the original bb in respect to center size too.

The second choke isn't really much of a choke point, but still very useful for zerg getting a protected hatch near minerals, or terran holding off zealots with a farther back wall. Yes. it is where the crashed vulture doodad is. This should only help with walling as it seals against zealots when combined with depot, but in original I don't think you could seal it very easily. I guess old method of walling might not be compatible with it, but I think you can figure out new ways of doing it, let me know if there are any troubles. I think this is an important change for the map, because orig bb only had good second choke in upper right but now all spots do.
8882
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
2718 Posts
May 03 2008 23:01 GMT
#4
You can find the pink (twilight) blood bath here.
http://www.mediafire.com/?unsnmj0w1ze

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


I got used to playing on it a lot, as it addresses some of the things you have fixed - upgraded mining (still bad, but much better) and fixed chokes.

After playing a game on your map (vs the computer T_T). I found that I cant get used to the fact that the minerals are not near the edge of the screen. This gives terran a huge advantage vs zerg and zergs have much easier life vs protoss (easier harrass). ZvT becomes a bit easier too, I got used to some smart building placement, that would stop cold nearly any harass.

I havent tested if a tank put at that "extension", at bottom could not hit the enemy wall for example.

But walling? On BB? IMBA :D It should not work!
I have returned
Krohm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Canada1857 Posts
May 04 2008 01:45 GMT
#5
Hmm very nice work actually, I'll start using this. Maybe it'll get circulated. I can't stand blizzards version of BB...
Not bad for a cat toy.
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