• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 23:14
CET 05:14
KST 13:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win1BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced14[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Information Request Regarding Chinese Ladder SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest RSL Revival: Season 3 Tenacious Turtle Tussle [Alpha Pro Series] Nice vs Cure
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
Which season is the best in ASL? [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh's Valkyrie Copium BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? The Perfect Game
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Big Programming Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Esports Earnings: Bigger Pri…
TrAiDoS
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1383 users

Blood Bath Oasis

Blogs > flag
Post a Reply
flag
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States228 Posts
May 03 2008 20:22 GMT
#1
[image loading]

<download latest version of the map (1.0)>
<download obs>

The primary purpose of this map is to balance all of the starting positions, while keeping the same game play of the original blood bath. Spor's map is good, but since it keeps the same basic shape as the original it is impossible to balance some things like how easy it so to protect far 3 minerals and how tanks can cover the entire adjacent bridge in some spots but not all.

The secondary goal of the map is to attempt to fix some racial balance issues. This is difficult because the map is so non standard and we haven't seen hundreds of games between pros on it, thus we don't really know how to best exploit every advantage and which race has an overall advantage (this is precisely why I like bb since we have to figure it out ourselves). In general I feel it is fairly safe to say T>Z, P>T (early game), T>P (later game if terran's economy is equal). ZvP seems to be the closest and I personally think P has a slight advantage. I will not go too far out of my way to fix balance, that would conflict with the first goal, instead I will try to choose features that already exist in some start locations and put them in all positions if they help balance.

Here is mineral/gas timing test if interested: + Show Spoiler +

12 workers on minerals for 10 minutes with trigger to stop precisely.

minerals protoss terran zerg
top left 6912 6944 6896
top right 7024 6880 6896
bottom right 7024 6896* 6840
bottom left 6976 6904 6824
* 6816 when tried with comsat in place

3 workers on gas for 10 mins
gas protoss terran zerg
top left 2768 2880 2880
top right 2736** 2768*** 2768
bottom right 2768* 2768* 2688*
bottom left 2768 2784 2784
*with 2x3 building under geyser (always do this, same as original bb)
**with a comsat center in place mining was much worse, 2480, use 4 scv if you have comsat
***with pylon built where indicated by 2x2 box (worse without)

For the curious optimal mining (30+scvs) is 11496 minerals in that time and 3072 gas. Thus none of the positions are optimal at mining gas with 3, but with proper building placement they are all very close to each other. Except if you are terran in top right and have a comsat station which is about 250 gas worse in 10 minutes. However if you are really serious about gas you should have 4 on gas, which chances are, you would want to do regardless of position if gas is that important to you.


Feature list / differences from original blood bath, by version added:

1.0
-Closer, balanced and symmetrical mineral/gas placement (it was especially bad for terran in bottom left)
-Gas is equally harassable in all positions (it was protected in bottom left before)
-Tanks can now range about half of adjacent bridges from protected area, original had some bridges susceptible to complete cover and others none
-Workers can now see minerals across each gap (useful for drilling)
-All 4 positions have minerals near the bridge (useful for zerg getting mins+choke control)
-All 4 positions have an equally wide secondary choke point (similar to the original's top right spot)
......Useful for terran and zerg who often cannot get main choke control
......There is a doodad here which only zerglings can squeeze between (not marine/zealot)
......Can be extended further with spawning pool or supply depot
-Room behind all starting locations minerals
-Center is now in the exact center (original had it down and to the right slightly)
-Place for overlords to hide from marines (the big tar pits, although not that good of a spot, it's better than nothing). I tried to make it so they couldn't be hit from marines in the 4 holes near center, but it just required too much other game changing changes.
-Attempted balance of sunken range on bridge (original had it so some areas could not break a zealot contain with sunkens but others could). It is not totally balanced still though, creep just doesn't like to go near cliffs, it should be slightly better than original bb, but not perfect.
-All positions wallable with 2 depots and a barracks, indicators to make it clear how (marines all pop in safe zone too)

UMS features
These are some simple features which should be in ALL maps. Note the non observer map still has these, just without the 4 extra observer slots.

-Player not forced to leave after elimination (their units all given to p12 like normal still)
-Message when player eliminated
-Convert player into observer mode if they lift cc before doing anything else

##########################################
I would like to make this map as good as it can be while keeping it true to blood bath. Please post any suggestions or problems with the latest version.

*****
8882
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
2718 Posts
May 03 2008 20:41 GMT
#2
I will definitely give it a try, as I mostly play the pink blood bath, which has some mineral mining issues.
Did you remove 1 mineral formation? Because often PvZs end up with 1base protoss with clear main vs 1 base zerg (at least for me) and that 1 mineral formation is necessary.

I think there is too much space between the bases. I mean I think the siege tanks seem to be able to get great range due to the extended terrain (cant they just shoot nearly through the whole ramp, if they just stay on that spot between east-west? There are no such things when the opponents play north-south positions.

What exactly is the 2nd choke thing? The crashed vultures? Because at top right I often make a sort of a wall, of 2 barracks, which seems to be ruined by that.
I have returned
flag
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States228 Posts
May 03 2008 22:45 GMT
#3
I have not heard of pink blood bath before. I don't know what you mean by that 1 mineral formation, but after you use up your 8x1500 near main, there are still the outer 2x3x3000 minerals for mining (same as orig).

I agree that PvT on cross position is alot different than adjacent, but there is simply no way to change it so that their tanks can hit the opposite ramp. It is pretty close to the original bb in respect to center size too.

The second choke isn't really much of a choke point, but still very useful for zerg getting a protected hatch near minerals, or terran holding off zealots with a farther back wall. Yes. it is where the crashed vulture doodad is. This should only help with walling as it seals against zealots when combined with depot, but in original I don't think you could seal it very easily. I guess old method of walling might not be compatible with it, but I think you can figure out new ways of doing it, let me know if there are any troubles. I think this is an important change for the map, because orig bb only had good second choke in upper right but now all spots do.
8882
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
2718 Posts
May 03 2008 23:01 GMT
#4
You can find the pink (twilight) blood bath here.
http://www.mediafire.com/?unsnmj0w1ze

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


I got used to playing on it a lot, as it addresses some of the things you have fixed - upgraded mining (still bad, but much better) and fixed chokes.

After playing a game on your map (vs the computer T_T). I found that I cant get used to the fact that the minerals are not near the edge of the screen. This gives terran a huge advantage vs zerg and zergs have much easier life vs protoss (easier harrass). ZvT becomes a bit easier too, I got used to some smart building placement, that would stop cold nearly any harass.

I havent tested if a tank put at that "extension", at bottom could not hit the enemy wall for example.

But walling? On BB? IMBA :D It should not work!
I have returned
Krohm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Canada1857 Posts
May 04 2008 01:45 GMT
#5
Hmm very nice work actually, I'll start using this. Maybe it'll get circulated. I can't stand blizzards version of BB...
Not bad for a cat toy.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2025 KFC Monthly #3 - Day 5
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nathanias 101
StarCraft: Brood War
Snow 114
ZergMaN 38
Noble 27
Icarus 10
Bale 3
Dota 2
monkeys_forever1886
NeuroSwarm113
XaKoH 0
League of Legends
JimRising 737
Counter-Strike
minikerr29
Other Games
summit1g11740
WinterStarcraft578
C9.Mang0386
Maynarde128
Mew2King95
CosmosSc2 8
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1448
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 118
• Light_VIP 53
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki28
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22377
League of Legends
• Scarra1763
• Rush928
• Stunt454
• Lourlo258
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
7h 46m
StarCraft2.fi
12h 46m
PiGosaur Monday
20h 46m
Wardi Open
1d 7h
StarCraft2.fi
1d 12h
Replay Cast
1d 19h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
[ Show More ]
SC Evo League
4 days
BSL 21
4 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
BSL 21
5 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-28
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.