• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 18:01
CET 00:01
KST 08:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview
Tourneys
2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle What happened to TvZ on Retro? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2039 users

Need WC3 crash cours

Blogs > asel
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1601 Posts
March 17 2008 14:12 GMT
#1
Hi, im going to a lan in two days and with the ambition to place first in a wc3 tourney(need a razor diamondback). I know nearly all players and when i played them on fun lans iIsaw that my mechanics, micro and macro were as good or better then theirs (thx 2 bw <3) and I only lost due to the fact that I have no idea how to play the different matchups (unit counters, what combinations), so i mostly played FE and powered hard.
So im asking you for help, yes you - i don't trust wc3 forums and teamliquid is just the best source for everything.
Everything.


My race is Terran Human and i would be glad if anyone could tell me the standard buils in all matchups and how to encounter stuff, im also watching replays and im gonna play about 50 games for train :D I know the very basics, like Archmage as first hero and stuff, but i just dont know any strat except this mass tower camping and tanks against ud which is pretty funny, but i would love to know an other strat, since this is quite predictable.

Yes most of us are noobs ^^
Im gonna make updates how i do in the tourney if anyone is interested :D

*****
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
Doctorasul
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Romania1145 Posts
March 17 2008 14:17 GMT
#2
Practice BW all day and it'll be a flawless victory, guaranteed. We all know being average at BW makes you pro at War3 since it's sooo much worse and we are sooo much better.
"I believe in Spinoza's god who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a god who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings." - Albert Einstein
Avius
Profile Joined October 2007
Iraq1796 Posts
March 17 2008 14:23 GMT
#3
how can i meet up with you, i can help
aka. Samael
Orlandu
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
China2450 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-17 14:35:43
March 17 2008 14:34 GMT
#4
Actually applying what you know from Brood War will make you much worse, believe me. You might think that you're better because you've played Brood War. That your micro, macro, and strategical decisions are far superior. But if you thought that it would only be because you're too arrogant to realize how little you actually understand about the game.

Trust me on this, I and most people I know who have had BW experience were the same way. You can't approach the two games in a similar way and expect to beat anyone above a complete nub level. You might actually have better macro, and in all honesty you should. But macro especially isn't the same in War3 as it is in BW, thus making it actually harmful to play it in the same way.

Your first mistake is assuming that you've only lost due to not knowing the matchup or the correct strategies. That's more than likely not the case, because that actually doesn't matter very much in War3 at a lower level. You also seem to have made the mistake of "powering hard", which considering you're a BW player, probably means that you did something that you really shouldn't have. Keep an eye on your supply in respect to upkeep limits, timing the breaking point is pretty important.


As far as strategy and build order goes, just watch replays for that, it's the quickest and easiest way. But pay special attention to creeping patterns and the timing at which the players do particular things, those are two really important factors that will set you apart and help you win far more than superior macro or strategical decisions will. Keep your heroes alive and make sure they level - if you aren't fighting, and you aren't healing, make sure you're creeping.
We cant give up just because things arent the way we want them to be.
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1601 Posts
March 17 2008 14:34 GMT
#5
ill play today @ 21 C.E.T or sth on europe with the nick ash.WC3TerraN
tomorrow ill paly the whole day - same nick ofc
to simulate LAN environment ill play drunk.
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1601 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-17 14:44:05
March 17 2008 14:40 GMT
#6
Well Orlandu, I actually thought they would all beat me quite hard since they played wc3 for years - and i watched just watched some streams from time to time, but i was actually able to beat most of them 50% of the time.
I think one of my advantages is that i play quite micro orientated in sc, so i can keep up with their micro, but for example i didnt even notice that this supply limits are anyhow important :X
thx for your advice im watching some ToD replays right now, any other Human players that you could recommend?


sorry for doublepost
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
Orlandu
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
China2450 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-17 14:53:12
March 17 2008 14:52 GMT
#7
Yeah if your micro is actually better than theirs, then that's going to help you a lot. It's pretty important in battles.

As for Humans, other than ToD Sky is your best bet. Those two, Infi, and TH000 are the better Humans out there. ToD and Sky are really the ones who define Human though, but be warned that there's usually a lot of towers involved with Human.

For Human your hero combination is gonna stay pretty static, for the most part you'll always want the AM first. The second hero you have a bit of choice with. MK is always a solid pick, Naga can be pretty useful, Panda is good in some situations, and BeastMaster is pretty good against Orc.

Also as I'm sure you've already figured out, Humans almost always fast creep with their militia. You don't always have to fast expand (though it's really good on some maps), but fast creeping with militia is almost always the best opening. It's just so fast and you can take down stronger creeps much sooner.

If you haven't figured it out already, Lost Temple is by far the best Human map. Terenas Stand and Echo Isles are also great for Human. Stay away from maps like Gnoll Wood and Twisted Meadows for the most part.
We cant give up just because things arent the way we want them to be.
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1601 Posts
March 17 2008 15:15 GMT
#8
So what maps would you advise me to fast expo most of the time, which not
Against what do you build the Panda and why is the beastmaster good against orc? Sorry for asking so stupid, but i just couldnt figure which tavern heros are viable.
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
Aesop
Profile Joined October 2007
Hungary11305 Posts
March 17 2008 15:34 GMT
#9
1. Fast Expo is usually good on: Lost Temple (duh), Echo Isles
Less recommended on: Twisted Meadows, Terenas Stand, Secret Valley
Near impossible: Turtle Rock

If you want to FE also depends on the matchup, the opponent's hero choice and the map positions. The further away, the better! There are scenarios where staying tier 1 for an extended period of time puts you far behind and therefore allows your opponent to capitalize on it, for example against Undead where you might need HEAVY towers to deal with his fast Destroyers.

2. Panda vs. Beastmaster is a tricky issue. Generally it was accepted that Beastmaster is good vs Orc for two reasons: a) He uses summons and Orc is generally late with dispel / has costly dispel, so mass summons were viable against Orc for quite some time. b) The Beastmaster adds additional HP and Firepower right from when you buy him and early tier 2 is a period where you want to exploit your advantage from your casters as much as possible. If you add a Panda, you will spend some time levelling him up and equipping him, thus resulting in a slower push.

As Orc has tended to rely more and more on Spiritwalkers, Beastmaster has become a less popular choice. Therefore going with the old-fashioned Mountain King is feasible again.

You might quite often want to add a Panda when playing other humans. The Panda can force him essentially to stay mostly on Spellbreakers, giving you the chance to counter those with Knights.

Never get Panda against Undead. Against a Human, UD's staple units are Destroyers and sadly those are immune against Magic.

3. Sometimes when pushing a Nightelf, a Naga can be a wise choice. Mountainking will get burned by the DH, summon heroes are too weak to dryad dispel.


If you find this helpful, feel free to ask more.
ModeratorNon veritas sed auctoritas facit legem. | Liquipedia: Don't ask me, I'm retired.
JudgeMathis
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Cuba1286 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-17 15:56:23
March 17 2008 15:56 GMT
#10
Right when you get your AM + 2 footies. You should be able to fast creep with 4-5 militans on a push.

I think the build order is something like Altar - Barracks - Farm - Lumber Mill - Farm. Once you got at least like 1 foot or 2 foots.
Benching 225 is light weight. Soy Cubano y Boricua!
Luddite
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2315 Posts
March 17 2008 17:21 GMT
#11
Since your micro is good but you don't know strats, why don't you just pick one strategy that will allow you to abuse your micro and not worry to much about strategic choices? I'd suggest just going for hardcore archmage harrassment with water elementals/footmen rush every time.
Can't believe I'm still here playing this same game
Aesop
Profile Joined October 2007
Hungary11305 Posts
March 17 2008 17:32 GMT
#12
If your micro is godly and you want a safe strat, go for mass rifle / caster. You dance your rifles and just push the hell out of them. Also makes the games end rather fast. Complement these units with MK / Naga.
ModeratorNon veritas sed auctoritas facit legem. | Liquipedia: Don't ask me, I'm retired.
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1601 Posts
March 17 2008 17:51 GMT
#13
On March 18 2008 02:32 Aesop wrote:
If your micro is godly and you want a safe strat, go for mass rifle / caster. You dance your rifles and just push the hell out of them. Also makes the games end rather fast. Complement these units with MK / Naga.

isn't this easily countered by aoe spells?
Thx for all the help, plz more
I ll ask questions later, im first going to play a bit and try to use the bo's i saw from the th000/sky/ToD reps i dl'ed
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
teamsolid
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada3668 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-17 18:36:46
March 17 2008 18:21 GMT
#14
On March 17 2008 23:40 asel wrote:
Well Orlandu, I actually thought they would all beat me quite hard since they played wc3 for years - and i watched just watched some streams from time to time, but i was actually able to beat most of them 50% of the time.

Lol, they must suck really hard. I remember playing some guy who was pro at SC (WCG Canada rep) and was getting into War3 at the time. It took him at least a few months of training before he could beat me in WC3, and I was only an above average player at the time (nowhere near pro).
teamsolid
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada3668 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-17 18:34:39
March 17 2008 18:25 GMT
#15
On March 18 2008 02:51 asel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2008 02:32 Aesop wrote:
If your micro is godly and you want a safe strat, go for mass rifle / caster. You dance your rifles and just push the hell out of them. Also makes the games end rather fast. Complement these units with MK / Naga.

isn't this easily countered by aoe spells?
Thx for all the help, plz more
I ll ask questions later, im first going to play a bit and try to use the bo's i saw from the th000/sky/ToD reps i dl'ed

If the other guy's going lots of AOE, just mix in spell breakers and buy as many healing scrolls at the shop as you can afford (especially when you're near upkeep limit). You'll be loaded anyways if you FE'd.
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
March 17 2008 18:45 GMT
#16
www.wcreplays.com

enjoy. =D
Spaceball
Profile Joined November 2007
United States213 Posts
March 17 2008 19:17 GMT
#17
On March 18 2008 03:45 Raithed wrote:
www.wcreplays.com

enjoy. =D


Seriously, the audios here are very helpful for anyone getting into WC3. I would listen to at least a couple of them on each matchup, it will give you a good understanding of what to do.
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1601 Posts
March 17 2008 19:39 GMT
#18
What caster would you recommend?
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
March 17 2008 20:00 GMT
#19
On March 18 2008 04:39 asel wrote:
What caster would you recommend?


Klazart.
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
St3MoR
Profile Joined November 2002
Spain3256 Posts
March 17 2008 20:10 GMT
#20
gryphon (d.hawk) + tank powered by masstowered massexpos will beat the shit out of most of your friendly UD noobs

t2 am+bm push will beat the crap out of your nooby ORCs

play oldstyle tower rush against NE, t1 or t2 what suits best each game

against HU, just beat them with the same units they use, u play bw right?

p.s: playing drunk = +100 points
Prophet in TL of the Makoto0124 ways
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: GosuLeague
21:00
RO16 SWISS - Day 1
ZZZero.O137
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ForJumy 41
PiGStarcraft6
ROOTCatZ 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 19784
Rain 2467
Calm 1930
Shuttle 374
ZZZero.O 137
UpATreeSC 125
Leta 102
NaDa 10
Counter-Strike
allub323
Super Smash Bros
Liquid`Ken21
Other Games
Grubby5842
FrodaN2062
shahzam526
fl0m488
Liquid`Hasu222
C9.Mang0125
Maynarde81
Chillindude43
Trikslyr35
fpsfer 1
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 42
• davetesta33
• Dystopia_ 5
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix14
• Azhi_Dahaki10
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV650
League of Legends
• Doublelift2056
• TFBlade1051
Other Games
• imaqtpie1194
• Scarra757
• Shiphtur222
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
1h 59m
The PondCast
10h 59m
Replay Cast
23h 59m
RSL Revival
1d 8h
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Reynor
Maru vs SHIN
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
BSL: GosuLeague
1d 21h
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
IPSL
4 days
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
Replay Cast
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-16
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.