• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:34
CEST 15:34
KST 22:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver4[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon98Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?179Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week #92
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice
Brood War
General
Syncronization issues and can't find games ASL22 General Discussion Why Protoss Struggles on ASL (Ft. Shuttle, Tulbo) Remastered crash fix suggestions BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group D [ASL22] Ro16 Group C KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Post Your Watch! Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6476 users

Need WC3 crash cours

Blogs > asel
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1605 Posts
March 17 2008 14:12 GMT
#1
Hi, im going to a lan in two days and with the ambition to place first in a wc3 tourney(need a razor diamondback). I know nearly all players and when i played them on fun lans iIsaw that my mechanics, micro and macro were as good or better then theirs (thx 2 bw <3) and I only lost due to the fact that I have no idea how to play the different matchups (unit counters, what combinations), so i mostly played FE and powered hard.
So im asking you for help, yes you - i don't trust wc3 forums and teamliquid is just the best source for everything.
Everything.


My race is Terran Human and i would be glad if anyone could tell me the standard buils in all matchups and how to encounter stuff, im also watching replays and im gonna play about 50 games for train :D I know the very basics, like Archmage as first hero and stuff, but i just dont know any strat except this mass tower camping and tanks against ud which is pretty funny, but i would love to know an other strat, since this is quite predictable.

Yes most of us are noobs ^^
Im gonna make updates how i do in the tourney if anyone is interested :D

*****
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
Doctorasul
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Romania1145 Posts
March 17 2008 14:17 GMT
#2
Practice BW all day and it'll be a flawless victory, guaranteed. We all know being average at BW makes you pro at War3 since it's sooo much worse and we are sooo much better.
"I believe in Spinoza's god who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a god who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings." - Albert Einstein
Avius
Profile Joined October 2007
Iraq1796 Posts
March 17 2008 14:23 GMT
#3
how can i meet up with you, i can help
aka. Samael
Orlandu
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
China2450 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-17 14:35:43
March 17 2008 14:34 GMT
#4
Actually applying what you know from Brood War will make you much worse, believe me. You might think that you're better because you've played Brood War. That your micro, macro, and strategical decisions are far superior. But if you thought that it would only be because you're too arrogant to realize how little you actually understand about the game.

Trust me on this, I and most people I know who have had BW experience were the same way. You can't approach the two games in a similar way and expect to beat anyone above a complete nub level. You might actually have better macro, and in all honesty you should. But macro especially isn't the same in War3 as it is in BW, thus making it actually harmful to play it in the same way.

Your first mistake is assuming that you've only lost due to not knowing the matchup or the correct strategies. That's more than likely not the case, because that actually doesn't matter very much in War3 at a lower level. You also seem to have made the mistake of "powering hard", which considering you're a BW player, probably means that you did something that you really shouldn't have. Keep an eye on your supply in respect to upkeep limits, timing the breaking point is pretty important.


As far as strategy and build order goes, just watch replays for that, it's the quickest and easiest way. But pay special attention to creeping patterns and the timing at which the players do particular things, those are two really important factors that will set you apart and help you win far more than superior macro or strategical decisions will. Keep your heroes alive and make sure they level - if you aren't fighting, and you aren't healing, make sure you're creeping.
We cant give up just because things arent the way we want them to be.
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1605 Posts
March 17 2008 14:34 GMT
#5
ill play today @ 21 C.E.T or sth on europe with the nick ash.WC3TerraN
tomorrow ill paly the whole day - same nick ofc
to simulate LAN environment ill play drunk.
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1605 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-17 14:44:05
March 17 2008 14:40 GMT
#6
Well Orlandu, I actually thought they would all beat me quite hard since they played wc3 for years - and i watched just watched some streams from time to time, but i was actually able to beat most of them 50% of the time.
I think one of my advantages is that i play quite micro orientated in sc, so i can keep up with their micro, but for example i didnt even notice that this supply limits are anyhow important :X
thx for your advice im watching some ToD replays right now, any other Human players that you could recommend?


sorry for doublepost
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
Orlandu
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
China2450 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-17 14:53:12
March 17 2008 14:52 GMT
#7
Yeah if your micro is actually better than theirs, then that's going to help you a lot. It's pretty important in battles.

As for Humans, other than ToD Sky is your best bet. Those two, Infi, and TH000 are the better Humans out there. ToD and Sky are really the ones who define Human though, but be warned that there's usually a lot of towers involved with Human.

For Human your hero combination is gonna stay pretty static, for the most part you'll always want the AM first. The second hero you have a bit of choice with. MK is always a solid pick, Naga can be pretty useful, Panda is good in some situations, and BeastMaster is pretty good against Orc.

Also as I'm sure you've already figured out, Humans almost always fast creep with their militia. You don't always have to fast expand (though it's really good on some maps), but fast creeping with militia is almost always the best opening. It's just so fast and you can take down stronger creeps much sooner.

If you haven't figured it out already, Lost Temple is by far the best Human map. Terenas Stand and Echo Isles are also great for Human. Stay away from maps like Gnoll Wood and Twisted Meadows for the most part.
We cant give up just because things arent the way we want them to be.
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1605 Posts
March 17 2008 15:15 GMT
#8
So what maps would you advise me to fast expo most of the time, which not
Against what do you build the Panda and why is the beastmaster good against orc? Sorry for asking so stupid, but i just couldnt figure which tavern heros are viable.
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
Aesop
Profile Joined October 2007
Hungary11305 Posts
March 17 2008 15:34 GMT
#9
1. Fast Expo is usually good on: Lost Temple (duh), Echo Isles
Less recommended on: Twisted Meadows, Terenas Stand, Secret Valley
Near impossible: Turtle Rock

If you want to FE also depends on the matchup, the opponent's hero choice and the map positions. The further away, the better! There are scenarios where staying tier 1 for an extended period of time puts you far behind and therefore allows your opponent to capitalize on it, for example against Undead where you might need HEAVY towers to deal with his fast Destroyers.

2. Panda vs. Beastmaster is a tricky issue. Generally it was accepted that Beastmaster is good vs Orc for two reasons: a) He uses summons and Orc is generally late with dispel / has costly dispel, so mass summons were viable against Orc for quite some time. b) The Beastmaster adds additional HP and Firepower right from when you buy him and early tier 2 is a period where you want to exploit your advantage from your casters as much as possible. If you add a Panda, you will spend some time levelling him up and equipping him, thus resulting in a slower push.

As Orc has tended to rely more and more on Spiritwalkers, Beastmaster has become a less popular choice. Therefore going with the old-fashioned Mountain King is feasible again.

You might quite often want to add a Panda when playing other humans. The Panda can force him essentially to stay mostly on Spellbreakers, giving you the chance to counter those with Knights.

Never get Panda against Undead. Against a Human, UD's staple units are Destroyers and sadly those are immune against Magic.

3. Sometimes when pushing a Nightelf, a Naga can be a wise choice. Mountainking will get burned by the DH, summon heroes are too weak to dryad dispel.


If you find this helpful, feel free to ask more.
ModeratorNon veritas sed auctoritas facit legem. | Liquipedia: Don't ask me, I'm retired.
JudgeMathis
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Cuba1286 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-17 15:56:23
March 17 2008 15:56 GMT
#10
Right when you get your AM + 2 footies. You should be able to fast creep with 4-5 militans on a push.

I think the build order is something like Altar - Barracks - Farm - Lumber Mill - Farm. Once you got at least like 1 foot or 2 foots.
Benching 225 is light weight. Soy Cubano y Boricua!
Luddite
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2315 Posts
March 17 2008 17:21 GMT
#11
Since your micro is good but you don't know strats, why don't you just pick one strategy that will allow you to abuse your micro and not worry to much about strategic choices? I'd suggest just going for hardcore archmage harrassment with water elementals/footmen rush every time.
Can't believe I'm still here playing this same game
Aesop
Profile Joined October 2007
Hungary11305 Posts
March 17 2008 17:32 GMT
#12
If your micro is godly and you want a safe strat, go for mass rifle / caster. You dance your rifles and just push the hell out of them. Also makes the games end rather fast. Complement these units with MK / Naga.
ModeratorNon veritas sed auctoritas facit legem. | Liquipedia: Don't ask me, I'm retired.
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1605 Posts
March 17 2008 17:51 GMT
#13
On March 18 2008 02:32 Aesop wrote:
If your micro is godly and you want a safe strat, go for mass rifle / caster. You dance your rifles and just push the hell out of them. Also makes the games end rather fast. Complement these units with MK / Naga.

isn't this easily countered by aoe spells?
Thx for all the help, plz more
I ll ask questions later, im first going to play a bit and try to use the bo's i saw from the th000/sky/ToD reps i dl'ed
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
teamsolid
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada3668 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-17 18:36:46
March 17 2008 18:21 GMT
#14
On March 17 2008 23:40 asel wrote:
Well Orlandu, I actually thought they would all beat me quite hard since they played wc3 for years - and i watched just watched some streams from time to time, but i was actually able to beat most of them 50% of the time.

Lol, they must suck really hard. I remember playing some guy who was pro at SC (WCG Canada rep) and was getting into War3 at the time. It took him at least a few months of training before he could beat me in WC3, and I was only an above average player at the time (nowhere near pro).
teamsolid
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada3668 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-17 18:34:39
March 17 2008 18:25 GMT
#15
On March 18 2008 02:51 asel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2008 02:32 Aesop wrote:
If your micro is godly and you want a safe strat, go for mass rifle / caster. You dance your rifles and just push the hell out of them. Also makes the games end rather fast. Complement these units with MK / Naga.

isn't this easily countered by aoe spells?
Thx for all the help, plz more
I ll ask questions later, im first going to play a bit and try to use the bo's i saw from the th000/sky/ToD reps i dl'ed

If the other guy's going lots of AOE, just mix in spell breakers and buy as many healing scrolls at the shop as you can afford (especially when you're near upkeep limit). You'll be loaded anyways if you FE'd.
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
March 17 2008 18:45 GMT
#16
www.wcreplays.com

enjoy. =D
Spaceball
Profile Joined November 2007
United States213 Posts
March 17 2008 19:17 GMT
#17
On March 18 2008 03:45 Raithed wrote:
www.wcreplays.com

enjoy. =D


Seriously, the audios here are very helpful for anyone getting into WC3. I would listen to at least a couple of them on each matchup, it will give you a good understanding of what to do.
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1605 Posts
March 17 2008 19:39 GMT
#18
What caster would you recommend?
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
March 17 2008 20:00 GMT
#19
On March 18 2008 04:39 asel wrote:
What caster would you recommend?


Klazart.
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
St3MoR
Profile Joined November 2002
Spain3256 Posts
March 17 2008 20:10 GMT
#20
gryphon (d.hawk) + tank powered by masstowered massexpos will beat the shit out of most of your friendly UD noobs

t2 am+bm push will beat the crap out of your nooby ORCs

play oldstyle tower rush against NE, t1 or t2 what suits best each game

against HU, just beat them with the same units they use, u play bw right?

p.s: playing drunk = +100 points
Prophet in TL of the Makoto0124 ways
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
11:00
2026 Week 23
IntoTheiNu 1072
WardiTV644
RotterdaM342
Rex139
TKL 130
SteadfastSC89
CosmosSc2 34
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 342
Rex 139
ProTech137
TKL 130
SteadfastSC 89
CosmosSc2 34
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 2079
Shuttle 1038
Horang2 1006
Soulkey 691
EffOrt 472
actioN 435
Soma 363
Snow 250
Light 235
Stork 195
[ Show more ]
Last 179
Rush 129
Larva 117
Pusan 98
Zeus 93
ZerO 89
910 69
hero 61
Sea.KH 54
Sexy 39
Trap 35
Barracks 33
ToSsGirL 32
Hm[arnc] 28
soO 23
Terrorterran 21
Sharp 17
Shine 14
sorry 12
HiyA 10
scan(afreeca) 7
Noble 6
Icarus 5
Britney 0
Dota 2
qojqva1367
Dendi1029
Counter-Strike
byalli2567
markeloff243
edward82
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King41
Other Games
singsing2287
olofmeister1248
B2W.Neo863
hiko631
Lowko389
DeMusliM169
Liquid`VortiX130
ArmadaUGS46
ZerO(Twitch)14
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick763
BasetradeTV45
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2455
• TFBlade982
Other Games
• WagamamaTV293
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
10h 26m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
21h 26m
Cure vs SHIN
herO vs Solar
Percival vs Classic
ByuN vs Rogue
OSC
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 10h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
GSL
3 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
4 days
Spirit vs Mixu
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Shine vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Light vs EffOrt
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Calamity Invitational
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.