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So, I need somewhere to vent because this has been bothering me for quite some time. It's going to be a lot of background information, so if you don't feel like wasting 10 minutes of your life you might not want to read it.
The year is 2006...
Early august. Me and datoby (currently qpad.datoby or NaW-datoby) are playing PGTour, while we're at it, we for some reason decide that a race to A- would be a nice thing to do. I accept datobys challenge, because it's fun to play towards something, and it's motivating, plus it means i'll have someone to go "/F M OMG I CANT BELIVE I LOST THAT!" to.
We play intensively the coming weeks, and after 2-3 weeks we're both at B+, and no winner is secured as of yet. I plow my way up to B+ 8890 points or something like that (A- is 9000 points). But just a few mintutes after I hit 8890 points, datoby grabs 9000 points and ends the race.
So what has this got to do with anything?
During the PGTour era, I had no troubles what so ever to hit B/B+. It was at B/B+ the struggle began, and I always reached that level with a fairly decent record (like 65% - 70% win). My top score ever on PGTour was actually the 8890 B+ score, and I had about 66% win percentage at that time.
In september 2006, PGT crashed, my old clan puLs disbanded, and I found a new home which was MgZ). I did fairly good at the tryouts, and I was looking forward to representing one of the oldest and greatest clans outside korea. I came into MgZ) cocky as hell, I was no longer a "nobody". I thought rather highly of my self and I was expecting to beat some of my team mates or at least play 50/50 against them in practice games. Boy was I wrong.
I lost 9/10 games that I played vs MgZ) members, and I got frustrated, because there were no place to practice except on europe (hence of the pgt crash) and I kept getting owned.
But I kept on playing MgZ members, and kept on losing for 2-3 months. I was prepared to get kicked out any day, as I couldn't contribute anything to the clan.
I was not kicked out though, I earned a lot of friends in MgZ, and I had great relations with both of the leaders, so I stayed.
ICCup emerges...
As ICCup came and offered the scene a ladder to play again, I was thrilled, this was exactly what I needed. I had played among MgZ) members for 5-6 months or so, and wanted to see how much I had improved. So I started playing iccup, thinking how I'd plow through the ranks and gain A- pretty fast. Wrong, again.
The first season of ICCup was horrible, I struggled at C+/B- for the entire season, ending up with a mere 51.1% win percentage and on something like 6220 points. When the season ended, I was left confused. How is it that I struggled the entire season on C+/B- when I was B+ easily in the pgt days? Meanwhile, I was still getting beat up like hell whenever I played a friend in MgZ).
The second season went better, but I hit the wall at B like I used to in the good ol PGT days. I got myself up to B+, but fell hard down to B, and ICCup crashed somewhere at that point. And they decided that they'd launch a new season after they fixed whatever made the site crash.
Present...
This season I started off plowing my way to B- easily, and then realized there was no one to play in "A-B" early season. So I started a new account, and got that one up to B- aswell. I slowly but surely climbed up to B and managed to hold on to that rank. But then I hit the wall again. I've basically been stuck at B-/B for 1.5 month? Pending back and forth..
So to sum it up:
PGTour high: B+ (nearly 2 years ago)
ICCup high: B+ (present)
Now what's been bothering me is how I'm stuck at the same rank as I managed to obtain two years ago. How 5-6 months of games vs some of the better players outside korea resulted in nothing, and how I as of today can't make it past B+ even though its gone nearly two years.
Whats even worse is, players that were nobodies, players I easily beat before, are some of the top foreigners today. I keep beating players, only to meet them again 3-4 months later, lose to them, and realize that they've become so much better.
One perfect example is the swedish national-B team. I was invited to play for them nearly 3 years ago. During those 3 years i've seen people join the B-squad, play there, and advance to the A-squad while I remain.
Now I keep asking myself, what am I doing wrong, why am I not improving. Because at this point, I really have no idea why.
/end of rant.
 
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that's rough. only advice i can think to give is possibly changing your style around a bit, and maybe reviewing your reps with your mgz) friends? i think you've said before that your're primarily a macro player, maybe it's your strategy/timing that's the problem?
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Interesting read. As a side, I remember playing you (I think it was you) to tryout for iR (I think that was the clan.) I didn't win, but it was a pretty good game on LT. They let me join the team. That would have been in 2005, I guess - around the end of my BW days.
Understandable why you are frustrated. I guess the thing is to consider why you are playing. What do you expect to get out of it?
If you are really doing the best you can, practicing a lot and vs good players (sounds like this is all true) then it comes down to whether you can be satisfied with the pure experience of playing the game, or if it is essential to advance. Maybe there really are limits to how good any particular person can become, and maybe you've hit yours. (I kind of doubt it, but perhaps it is true!)
I don't know.... there are lots of wonderful things outside of BW to get into! I'm glad I quit!
Good luck either way.
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If you think about it, higher level players (even non-pros/Koreans) are constantly getting better with the changing strategies of the pro gamers themselves. You've gotten better, but you've gotten better only as much as everyone else at your rank, if that makes sense. At least that's how I see it - the B+ in a Ladder today is worth more than a B+ in that ladder 5 years ago, or 4 or 3 or 2 or even 1 year ago. Don't be so down on yourself [:
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Fanatacist is probably right. Definitely something to keep in mind.
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WHAT? B+ IN...STARCRAFT?
UN-AS-EP-TABLE!
I completely agree with fantacist
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I agree with fantacist. As you struggle to keep getting better, so does every other B+ level player. I assume if they are B+ level, then they are practicing often, and because of that it seems that you are not improving. However, every player is naturally just improving along side you.
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ha tell me about it. i cant get higher than B- but at least i know why: i have 110 APM. Trust me its much more frustrating when u know that ur motorical capabilities are the reason you cant be much of a better player. Id rather be one of the 200 apm + but average to weak game sense / strategy players...
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Despite how much I enjoy SC, I really suck (PGT C- was personal best). However, as the sc-ing population in Korea is very large, I very frequently meet players I can just toy around with. This makes me feel powerful and important.
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Aw I thought i was gonna be the first to say it, but same as everyone else here.
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u reached ur limits, some players will never be top-notch due to different reasons (game understanding, micro, macro, etc). they do mass gaming, reach higher ranks with mass gaming (and 50/50 stats) but eventually dont improve at all. i guess this happens to you. face it, u will never be a very good player then.
just play for fun, u wont improve.
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HiTexas, you are an evil bastard. That's the kind of shit you don't actually say, even if you know it to be true. I will cry now.
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No worries, meRz. Iccup 1st season was a lot more packed than the PGT days, although my reasons for not climbing up high with decent records is that I stopped playing BW for almost 2 years in early 2005 
But what you say I always wonder about too - I used to beat some top europeans in BoX's back in the end of 2004 and a bit in 2005, 'til I played (and some very good koreans too, POS practice partners, some that even got very close to pro license - thanks to roMAD for pointing those out for me, cheers mate if you remember!), then now I see them as the cream of the crop. It's kinda a weird feeling.
For example, I was never really better than Strelok or White-Ra, but we've been in the same clans for a period of time ( 88) and (TE), namely), and while White-Ra beat me in like 80% of our insider games, I did fairly well against Strelok - and now you look at him, he's a famous machine, and I'm noone.
The game has evolved too much for me to overcome. I always used to rely on a few solid, sometimes bit weird opening builds (for example my fav 4 DT drop vs T, it could work against any opener of that time with solid micro), "okay" early-game micro, and - for that time's standards - superior macro to the european scene. Nowadays, everyone can macro like that, and most can micro better. I fell behind. I also missed this magic-box thingie entirely, and it seems my old habits don't let other features be used in my games, so I can't improve. That's life
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People agree with me. I feel accepted and cool.
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The game has become a lot more refined in the past 3 years I feel, both inside and outside of Korea. Thats one reason why you seem to be doing no better than you did 2 years ago even though you played so much.
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Netherlands4520 Posts
BW can be so frustating. Just keep trying and you will eventually improve, play better players all the time and try getting perfect at certain strategies. KEep fighting :D
I'm getting quite annoyed myself, I'm finding it so hard to be as good as I used to be, either everyone is a lot better or I just suck ass!
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I think maybe you should change your style abit. Don't take this too seriously but from the reps and FPVods I've seen from you, you play very textbook mostly.
Perhaps try some new strats and weird shit to mix it up? Every gosu player has an arsenal of those
I think the problem with only playing like the same 3 maps all over which happens alot on ladders is that people tend to do the same thing every game and their perspective narrows down alot, something which I've noticed about myself when you go 10 games in a row on Python.
My new fav map is Zodiac though.
I'm also struggling to be better, I'm C highest Terran now but I know I can push into B, I have the speed (250-300 apm) and multitasking and just need to actually play better, scout more etc.
Also yeah...like Ret says, BW can be so frustrating. When you win a couple games in a row against decent players you feel really confident but when you loose 3 games against those same players you feel like a fucking newbie.
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Fuck you all. It depresses me that everyone here's probably better than me, and is still talking about how they suck.
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also, i dunno if it's been mentioned before but maybe taking a few days to a week off would be a good idea - you might come back refreshed.
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On February 04 2008 21:10 JensOfSweden wrote:
I think maybe you should change your style abit. Don't take this too seriously but from the reps and FPVods I've seen from you, you play very textbook mostly.
Perhaps try some new strats and weird shit to mix it up? Every gosu player has an arsenal of those
I think the problem with only playing like the same 3 maps all over which happens alot on ladders is that people tend to do the same thing every game and their perspective narrows down alot, something which I've noticed about myself when you go 10 games in a row on Python.
My new fav map is Zodiac though.
I'm also struggling to be better, I'm C highest Terran now but I know I can push into B, I have the speed (250-300 apm) and multitasking and just need to actually play better, scout more etc.
Also yeah...like Ret says, BW can be so frustrating. When you win a couple games in a row against decent players you feel really confident but when you loose 3 games against those same players you feel like a fucking newbie.
You're a macro machine, you just need better sense I think ;D
Not my place to say really xD What are we, 6-0? That's why I'm D+.
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On February 04 2008 21:46 BottleAbuser wrote:
Fuck you all. It depresses me that everyone here's probably better than me, and is still talking about how they suck.
at least you now know the depth of skill it takes to do well.
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lol wtf ret still plays BW? Haha i can never be as good as i once was cuz i lost my equipment and stuff.
Hi merz i was in ur clan iR. i used to own u around now ur probably hella good gj. PLAY me sometime plz, i try to play bw once a day with friends or somehting.
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my skill ceiling is at D/D+.
my APM is 100 after 3 months of playing.
that's what you call frustrating.
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On February 05 2008 04:13 .MistiK wrote:
my skill ceiling is at D/D+.
my APM is 100 after 3 months of playing.
that's what you call frustrating.
3 months of playing? You know most of these players have been playing this game for several years, don't you?
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On February 05 2008 04:13 .MistiK wrote:
my skill ceiling is at D/D+.
my APM is 100 after 3 months of playing.
that's what you call frustrating.
haha 3 months, geez. I would call that a decent start :p
especially if you haven't played an RTS competatively before
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On February 05 2008 00:00 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2008 21:10 JensOfSweden wrote:
I think maybe you should change your style abit. Don't take this too seriously but from the reps and FPVods I've seen from you, you play very textbook mostly.
Perhaps try some new strats and weird shit to mix it up? Every gosu player has an arsenal of those
I think the problem with only playing like the same 3 maps all over which happens alot on ladders is that people tend to do the same thing every game and their perspective narrows down alot, something which I've noticed about myself when you go 10 games in a row on Python.
My new fav map is Zodiac though.
I'm also struggling to be better, I'm C highest Terran now but I know I can push into B, I have the speed (250-300 apm) and multitasking and just need to actually play better, scout more etc.
Also yeah...like Ret says, BW can be so frustrating. When you win a couple games in a row against decent players you feel really confident but when you loose 3 games against those same players you feel like a fucking newbie. You're a macro machine, you just need better sense I think ;D Not my place to say really xD What are we, 6-0? That's why I'm D+.
Yeah I know. I lack that "sense of star" that pro's have ;o
Come to op tl-west sometime, would be fun to play some games again
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Don't be too bothered. The latter seasons of PGT were much easier to get higher ranks than the current seasons of iCCup. This means at around B level you were playing crappier players in PGT than you were in iCCup. Being able to still get B+ actually means you've gotten better.
If you want to improve considerably from now I think you need to change your whole mindset and how you approach the task of training and improvement.
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Woah! I never thought i'd get so many respones to this. I've read through all the comments, and i'd like to thank everyone who actually came with some feedback.
I don't really know who I'm supposed to respond to, all I can say is that i'm definitely going to think through some of the stuff that's been mentioned.
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Let's be honest here...B+ on iCCup >>>>> B+ PGT
iCCup is a MUCH harder ladder than PGT. You're still gosu Merz, don't worry about it
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I think everyone is right. Iccup sounds like it's much more difficult and evolved. (I actually have no idea, haven't been playing for too long.)
I think your frustration is natural, and every good player gets it(along with the bad ones :D.)
Just make sure that you have the right mindset when you play/practice. Don't just "go through the motions" or "I hope I can play as well as I did before," but rather, make a conscious effort to improve and such. I know you've probably heard it a million times, but I really believe it's the most important part.
I've been playing since SC2 announcement and just got C-(Which I think is not bad,) and recently I've been worrying that I'm going to stop improving. The important thing for me is not to lose the momentum I've gained through the past few months. Never be satisfied, because when you're satisfied, you do your hardest to maintain the skill you've achieved instead of trying to improve upon it. Instead of stopping and saying "Hey, I did pretty well", and allowing myself to round off, my goal is to keep pushing my limits. When you find yourself improving, keep the momentum! I know you're at a way higher SC level than me, but hopefully this advice can be helpful in some way.
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EPT
