EPTChristianity Questions - Page 2
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Schones_Chaos
United States226 Posts
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Wonders
Australia753 Posts
On January 29 2008 22:01 BottleAbuser wrote: Actually, with a powerful enough logic system, we can resolve these paradoxes in several ways. See wikipedia article here. I know that this is getting a little sidetracked, but just need to clarify. I meant that every complex consistent logical system has its own "Liar Paradox". It doesn't have to be in particular "This statement is false", just something that can't be resolved by the system. On January 29 2008 22:49 FieryBalrog wrote: Atheists can be morally upstanding citizens. However, such atheists are essentially following and investing in a fundamentally religious and non-rational belief system. There is no logical, coherent basis for many of the moral principles we take for granted. All of moral philosophy is dedicated to coming up with such a basis. | ||
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OverTheUnder
United States2929 Posts
On January 29 2008 22:49 FieryBalrog wrote: Atheists can be morally upstanding citizens. However, such atheists are essentially following and investing in a fundamentally religious and non-rational belief system. There is no logical, coherent basis for many of the moral principles we take for granted. You can say that about every belief system. And if you honestly think that Christianity and Scientology are compareable, you haven't studied either enough. I'm not Christian, but its a silly comparison. Its like those people who compare Islam to a cult or Buddhism to Satanism. Just ignorant. his comparison was fine for this purpose;/ The point is that some religions may be more agreeable with society but when it comes to evidence in their case, all are left wanting:O | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32160 Posts
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f0rgiv3n
United States112 Posts
On January 29 2008 21:24 Alethios wrote: Sorry about the rather blunt opening, it gets better. There is no empirical proof for any religion beliefs. The bible for instance, taken alone, proves nothing. (Conan the Barbarian also claims to be 100% fact). Additionally, we live in a time where things that once needed to be explained by a god(s), can now be explained without. The bible taken alone, proves nothing-- In my opinion I believe it proves everything, everything about the human race. This is one reason why I personally believe in Christianity. Reading through the bible, the bible is the only religious book that shows the disgusting and disturbing ways of how we all are. Reading through the bible you'll find things such as murder, rape, stealing, and lots of other things that you would think religions would want to hide. Another thing about the bible is unlike all other religious texts it was written by 40 different authors over 1600 years. 1600 YEARS! Can you believe that? Yet reading through it the thematic content flows amazingly. from 40 different authors???????? That just blows my mind. In my opinion if how the Bible was written and how it flows doesn't prove there was some sort of higher being influencing these authors, I don't know what would. My question is this: What are good reasons for a belief in Christianity or indeed any religion? Which reasons are not valid reasons? Which reason(s) do you base your own beliefs upon? I don't want to waste your time by typing out a bunch of archaeological finds of scripts, and other things but I will say this: I would like to bring up for a good reason to believe there is a God is look at the odds! If anyone hasn't ever read about Pascal's Wager I would recommend you to it. it's quite interesting. In a nutshell it talks about if you were to believe in God, and there was a God you get to go to heaven, if you believe in God and there isn't a God, you lose nothing and perhaps live a life with more hope than if you didn't. However if you don't believe in a God and he is, you lost, if you don't believe and he doesn't exist still... you lose nothing. The odds are in our favor guys. : ) That's one logical reasoning that I find interesting and applicable to my belief in God. Sorry to type a lot I find it good stuff to discuss this stuff. Thanks for the fun blog TechniQ.UK! | ||
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
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suresh0t
United States295 Posts
On January 30 2008 01:57 f0rgiv3n wrote: The bible taken alone, proves nothing-- In my opinion I believe it proves everything, everything about the human race. This is one reason why I personally believe in Christianity. Reading through the bible, the bible is the only religious book that shows the disgusting and disturbing ways of how we all are. Reading through the bible you'll find things such as murder, rape, stealing, and lots of other things that you would think religions would want to hide. Another thing about the bible is unlike all other religious texts it was written by 40 different authors over 1600 years. 1600 YEARS! Can you believe that? Yet reading through it the thematic content flows amazingly. from 40 different authors???????? That just blows my mind. In my opinion if how the Bible was written and how it flows doesn't prove there was some sort of higher being influencing these authors, I don't know what would. My question is this: What are good reasons for a belief in Christianity or indeed any religion? Which reasons are not valid reasons? Which reason(s) do you base your own beliefs upon? I don't want to waste your time by typing out a bunch of archaeological finds of scripts, and other things but I will say this: I would like to bring up for a good reason to believe there is a God is look at the odds! If anyone hasn't ever read about Pascal's Wager I would recommend you to it. it's quite interesting. In a nutshell it talks about if you were to believe in God, and there was a God you get to go to heaven, if you believe in God and there isn't a God, you lose nothing and perhaps live a life with more hope than if you didn't. However if you don't believe in a God and he is, you lost, if you don't believe and he doesn't exist still... you lose nothing. The odds are in our favor guys. : ) That's one logical reasoning that I find interesting and applicable to my belief in God. Sorry to type a lot I find it good stuff to discuss this stuff. Thanks for the fun blog TechniQ.UK! If you follow this approach to religion then, by your own standards, you would not get into heaven... | ||
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f0rgiv3n
United States112 Posts
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yubee
United States3826 Posts
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suresh0t
United States295 Posts
On January 30 2008 02:42 f0rgiv3n wrote: how so? Because then your obviously not living as a Christian by faith, you are living it by fear. Which means you don't really believe, which means you don't get to go to heaven  | ||
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Quanticfograw
United States2053 Posts
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f0rgiv3n
United States112 Posts
On January 30 2008 02:54 suresh0t wrote: Because then your obviously not living as a Christian by faith, you are living it by fear. Which means you don't really believe, which means you don't get to go to heaven I gotcha  . Yeah I understand where your'e coming from there. I dont' actually base my faith on that alone but it was something that helps one if they are waivering on whether or not to believe. | ||
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fight_or_flight
United States3988 Posts
On January 29 2008 18:31 Klaz wrote: If all humanity derives from Adam and Eve, does that mean we are a product of incest? If so then why is incest considered wrong by Christianity since none of us would be around without it? The answer to this, I believe, is that at the time of adam and eve, there was no 'law' because god hadn't given any. (If there are no rules you can't break them.) There was only one law, and therefore one way to sin, which was to eat from the forbidden tree. And also, apparently people lived for hundreds of years at that time, so maybe he had one kid, then another one 50 years later, etc. (and in the old testament, a lot of the laws were designed to keep the people healthy, so its obvious why its a sin) ---------- Anyway, I think it is kind of narrow minded to be so sure there isn't a god. It kind of reminds me of when I do homework problems and the answer isn't in the back of the book. It just takes me 1 or 2 steps, then bam, I have an answer. Of course I have no way of checking if its right, and I know that it probably shouldn't be so easy, so I probably did it wrong. Its easy to attack someone and their beliefs, and many times they are wrong. But that still doesn't change the question of whether god exists or not. That is independent of anyone else. Just the fact that you only live for 20 - 80 years, you should expect not to know everything within such a short lifetime. Especially nowadays when most people generally figure things out on their own. In the past cultures had traditions that they passed down from generation to generation, and collectively, they had a much longer "lifetime". Today, we are told what the 'truth' is, and most people just accept it, and move on to other things (school, work, sports, etc.), whereas in the past they were actively thinking about it. Do you really think that one day some monkey looked up at the sky and said "hey, there's god!"? All I'm saying is to use a little critical thinking and judge the world around you with your own thoughts and feelings (thats right, you have both). | ||
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TechniQ.UK
United Kingdom391 Posts
i.e. What makes it more "correct" than any other religion in the world. Basically if you look at the main stream religions that exist today, if you believe in a god you can narrow it down to about 4, Muslims worship a god who many christians including myself believe to be a small g (god) a diety that links back to satan why is this allah not the same as the God of the bible? 1. The bible teaches that Yah'shua (Jesus) was THE saviour, he was the messiah the prophet, however the quran contradicts this by saying that Yah'shua is only to come later a 2nd time and isnt as important as mohammed. The quran is like the 3rd or 4th holy book in the world in chronological order of the abrahamic religions, it came after Yah'shua returned to heaven and its saying that all the rules have changed and that in some twisted way that theres a new more important prophet and salvation comes through all this other stuff and doesn't mention faith much, also theres parts where the quran says that allah went down to hell and started torturing souls there for i think it was amusement?? Sorry but going from us being saved and being back in the love of the father and then out of nowhere its like all of this stuff, no im sorry but this isn't our Lord and saviour and its not the God of the bible. There is also a lot of evidence to show that most of islam is based on idolatry of like stones, which the bible also warns against. Sikhism is kinda like i don't know much about God but its like hes everywhere, created life and is kinda just there, salvation comes through enlightenment, this is basically buddhism, sikhism and other indian/eastern religions in a nut shell, so theres nothing much going on there they get information from so called gurus with like 0 evidence. Judaism is basically what came before Christianity but has decided not to move on when Christianity came, why? im not sure but there is quite a lot of parts of judaism who do believe in the messiah so there i think on the way to salvation. Can you explain the Holy Trinity to me? I read the Bible, but that thing doesnt make fucking sense at all. Ok basically The son, the Father and the Holy Spirit are all part of 1 God, they are all linked in some way but they're existing in 3 persons. I can't really go into this much because its so beyond what we understand theres really no way for us to know on what levels are they the same person etc... However Yah'shua made it clear that he and the Father were one. The bible also makes it clear that the Holy Spirit is also a part of this unity. Can Buddhists and Hindus get into heaven? Yes if they believe in Yah'shua with their whole heart and confess him before others and follow some important rules in the bible for salvation then theres no reason why not. Unless their religion is worshipping other idols or gods because that is a serious sin and the bible says you cannot be a person with 2 masters (sin or salvation, God or some other idol). What are good reasons for a belief in Christianity or indeed any religion? Which reasons are not valid reasons? Which reason(s) do you base your own beliefs upon? Reasons in general: You really think we got put on this earth, so perfectly designed, more intellegent and different than anything else here without a higher being to create us. You think that if there was a superior designer he would be so un-intellegent to just be some floating spiritual substense that doesn't observe judge or communicate? There has been several people cured of illnesses and diseases in this day and age, an example would be doyle brunsons wife who was cured of cancer when a christian spiritual healer came to see her. There has also been supernatural events that people have experienced from all over the world. Supernatural events that involve things like ghosts seem to stop dead when someone rebukes that spirit or demon in the name of Jesus. Real Exorcisms.... My reasons : I was an aethiest but turned Christian over 2 days where i just started having these thoughts which i did not think about myself, i believe in relevance to the bible that it was my calling from my Father or the Holy Spirit because of how sudden it was. I've witnessed the power of the Lord in me even before i read more than 5 pages of the bible, just by taking the prayer i was instantly changed in many ways. I've witnessed the power of the Lord when i helped another Christian that was getting chased and bullied for being known to be an ultra-religious kinda geeky person where as i usually would be laughing at him as normal. I've witnessed the power of the Lord when i asked for a specific thing to happen and it did 4 minutes later which was so specific that it can't have been a coincidence, the way it happened was like 1 in a million chance for this to happen the way it did. I've witnessed the power of the Lord when i was in church for the first time and i was half way through a hymn when i got like complete happiness that was not my own, i was getting bored of the song and then it came to a part about Jesus rising from the dead and its like i didnt take much notice but when i sang that line a huge euphoria came over me. I couldn't stop smiling and just being happy for about 10 minutes straight, I'm pretty sure it was the Holy Spirit that day. So basically its my view that anyone who doesn't believe, make that leap of faith, take the sinners prayer in complete clean intentions and you will witness the power of the Lord in your own way, he will show you what you need to be shown, trust me, anyone who calls themselves aethiest etc... i don't think can truely justify themselves until you take that step and see what happens. Throw yourself out there and you will experience the truth first hand. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
And of course, like suresh0t and others have pointed out (most notably William James), believing in God on the basis of odds is completely unchristian and therefore the Wager is self defeating. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
If your brother, your mother’s son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods’ (whom neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 of the gods of the peoples who are around you, near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end), 8 you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him. 9 “But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 “So you shall stone him to death because he has sought to seduce you from the LORD your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11 “Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and will never again do such a wicked thing among you. -Deuteronomy 13:6 8-15 Lets not forget that Jesus tells us to obey all the words of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:18-19.) | ||
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f0rgiv3n
United States112 Posts
On January 30 2008 04:02 Jibba wrote: Also, what do you make of Lets not forget that Jesus tells us to obey all the words of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:18-19.) Deuteronomy was a letter to a group of people and that was meant for them in the Old Testament. When Jesus Christ came he totally made a lot of changes by how he lived and died. When reading the Old Testament we're not supposed to take them literally you can find lots of sayings like "don't shave your beard." for instance, i mean do you see all christians walking around with really long beards? I think that would be quite funny actually but no, it's because we read those and we get the idea from what God was trying to tell us through the author. In that instance he was saying is that even though you love your family/friends if they are worshipping other gods then you are to not hide it, or conceal it. Bring it out in the open because you love them it's like "a good friend tells the truth." You don't hide it. The comment above that: Pascal's Wager is an unsound argument. Some of its premises are false while others are just extremely debatable and unprovable. And of course, like suresh0t and others have pointed out (most notably William James), believing in God on the basis of odds is completely unchristian and therefore the Wager is self defeating. odds... completely unchristian? It's a matter of thinking rationally is what I was trying to prove. A lot of people separate religion and rational thinking. When I believe it's the total opposite: Believing in God is the result of rational thinking. Sorry if I make you frustrated Jibba. | ||
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Dr.Dragoon
United States1241 Posts
Anyways, my question: Is God killable? No..I don't have any ulterior motives > | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. -Jesus confirming the Old Testament in the New Testament.-Matthew 5:18-19 Why wouldn't you follow the passage from Deuteronomy? Personally, I wouldn't because I believe it's immoral. As for Pascal, my point was that he is not using rational thinking. Rational thinking entails both a sound and valid argument. His argument is structurally valid (if you believe the premises, the conclusion is 100% true), but its premises are bad therefore it isn't sound. I can think of plenty of reasons to believe in God, but rational thinking is not one of them. That is the point of faith, and on that I cannot dispute you. | ||
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f0rgiv3n
United States112 Posts
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