• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:42
CEST 15:42
KST 22:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon100Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?179Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9
StarCraft 2
General
I have 0 hope Blizzard doing anything with SC IP SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 8/8 Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Yamato Cup Series
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall KSL Week #92
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice
Brood War
General
an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot Syncronization issues and can't find games Man Bnet can't even load profile now, WTF Bot on ladder Ladder (still) not working?
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group D [BSL23] SM: Ret vs TerrOr - bo7 - Sunday 9pm CEST [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro16 Group C
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Post Your Watch!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8896 users

Deep Dive: Math and Magic and The Laws of Form

Blogs > Hildegard
Post a Reply
Hildegard
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
Germany348 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-01-04 12:03:47
December 28 2023 20:31 GMT
#1
Beware — if reading this blog doesn't challenge you intellectually, I would be surprised. Our topic will delve into knowledge scarcely any people possess despite it being freely available on the internet. “The Laws of Form” by George Spencer-Brown is significant in a way to which only the three religious books (and similar ones about Buddhism for example) (Old Testament, New Testament and the Quran) are comparable.  Enjoy: https://archive.org/details/lawsofform00spenrich

[image loading]

To build it up a bit, I have to write about a conversation I don't recall precisely.  Essentially, I was told that this book is similar to the secret knowledge of the Kabbalah. 

When I lived in Mewasseret Zion, a suburb of Jerusalem, for an internship in 2005 (or 2006?) as part of my university-program, my boss told me about a Kabbalah meeting he attended because Madonna, the singer, attended the same meeting. He told me that to be initiated, one had to be married and have a child. The good news is — “The Laws of Form” doesn't have any more requirements than opening a link on the World Wide Web.

It stings my old world European pride that this book has been written by a citizen of the “brexited” United Kingdom. At least, he wasn't a citizen of the United States. That would sting a lot more. In honour of George Spencer-Brown, I write this blog in British English. You are probably wondering by now why I haven't actually talked about the book yet. Point taken. 

The book “The Laws of Form” creates a new mathematic based partially on the liar's paradox in a slightly altered form:  “This statement is false.” Normally, the liar's paradox is described with “This sentence is a lie.”, but because this book is about mathematics, the change makes a lot of sense. According to Radical Constructivism (or René Descartes, some centuries earlier) we know nothing outside the fact that we exist because we can doubt that we exist. 

Our brain receives electrical signals from various sources. We all know that it is easy to create and alter electrical signals. For that reason, our world view is an uneducated guess that works well for our daily routines. When shopping in the supermarket, second guessing your optical senses complicates things unnecessarily. Looking at our perception of time makes it obvious that our interpretation of time can't be correct because if time is linear, there needs to be a starting point before the Big Bang. We can't explain why anything exists or how it started to exist. Introducing a God only adds a variable, but can't answer the question of how God began to be. So we can safely say that our interpretation of time is practical, but also undeniably wrong. 

There are countless explanations of the quantum world and if you are interested, I'm sure you can find many relevant resources. I'm just using it as a second example of why our world view has to be wrong. If you want to hear George Spencer-Brown talk about this topic, click on my quote or, for your convenience, this link:  https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form

The book “Laws of Form” introduces a method to describe things, that usually make our brains hurt, like paradoxes or the eternity of space. Explaining this is probably far too complex to attempt in a blog article. Of course, I will try it anyway. 

Let's start with three bullet points I shamelessly stole from Wikipedia:

  • The “primary arithmetic” (described in Chapter 4 of LoF), whose models include Boolean arithmetic;
  • The “primary algebra” (Chapter 6 of LoF), whose models include the two-element Boolean algebra (hereinafter abbreviated 2), Boolean logic, and the classical propositional calculus;
  • “Equations of the second degree” (Chapter 11), whose interpretations include finite automata and Alonzo Church’s Restricted Recursive Arithmetic (RRA).


If you don't understand the content of these three bullet points, yet, you probably have an easier time understanding the following statement: Because this new mathematic is based on a paradox, it can deal with things that maths typically cannot describe. For example, religion or magic. A study found in 2006 of the around 2000 participants that around 70% of the respondents believe to have had an unexplained paranormal event that changed their lives, mostly in a positive way. Read it again. The participants believe not only that supernatural things might exist, but they claim to actually have had an impactful encounter with something supernatural. This doesn't account for those lying about it because they would rather not be perceived as crazy. In short, most of the human population believes in some sort of magic.

What if “magic” was actually material, in the same way that light is a paradox (particle or wave), maybe we just lack the tools to measure it because of the uncertainty principle?

The book “Laws of Form” teaches the tools to describe the things we can't truly describe without it. Religious traditions like the Kabbalah or Buddhism allow describing phenomena like Quantum Entanglement as well. But for most of tl.net, it's probably easier to read a book about mathematics than to reach the Enlightenment. 

One cautionary tale, however. This book is magical in some way. People react very differently once they understand the principle called “reentry”. Women tend to deal with it easier. I got kicked into a massive manic episode after I finally understood the reentry while being in the bathtub in 2016. That was followed by a long phase of depression, which I came out of only a few months ago. Don't worry, I have an excellent female psychiatrist of nearly 70 years who understands the reentry as well. She is very pleased with my current development and I have all the medications I need. But it took a long time to build me up again. 

Secondly — this knowledge is a bit arcane. It opens options to use that mathematical magic for good or evil. I decided to use it for good, and I try not to use the dangerous elements because I believe that men are not really well-equipped to do so. My advice would be to learn, but be very hesitant to use it. The best approximations I can come up with are either that it's like if the bible (or the Quran or other enlightened texts) consisted of mathematical formulas or if magic was described and working with functions. Maybe just do what Spencer-Brown did and talk amused but not arrogant about people believing their perceptions to be true, or use it — like me — to create a bit of entertainment. 

The reason why I share this knowledge is that I don't want humanity to end up as pets for Artificial Intelligences, but rather cooperate with them to improve the state of our planet Earth.

I was too exhausted to re-read this blog and hope that it is understandable.

Some links about me:
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on YouTube Music
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on Facebook (as Franz Bieberkopf)
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on LinkedIn
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on X (Twitter)
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on Reddit
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on Instagram (barely used)
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on TikTok (using only German so far)
You are welcome.


*
tl.net humour: https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form
Ciaus237
Profile Joined July 2015
South Africa288 Posts
December 29 2023 08:11 GMT
#2
Dude, this is some crank shit.

For your own reasoning skills, and ability to see reality clear-eyed, you should step away from this stuff.
The time that we kill keeps us alive
Hildegard
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
Germany348 Posts
December 29 2023 12:32 GMT
#3
On December 29 2023 17:11 Ciaus237 wrote:
Dude, this is some crank shit.

For your own reasoning skills, and ability to see reality clear-eyed, you should step away from this stuff.


Trust me, once you understand, you neither can nor want to step away. You can only decide whether you want to use it or not. As I wrote - I use it mainly to create entertainment.
tl.net humour: https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
GSL
11:00
2026 GSTL: Playoffs Round 1
IntoTheiNu 811
CranKy Ducklings SOOP188
Classic 75
Cure 64
Rogue 61
Solar (SOOP)33
Rex22
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Classic 75
Cure 64
Rogue 61
Solar (SOOP) 33
MindelVK 33
Rex 22
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 9118
Jaedong 4305
Shuttle 1732
firebathero 672
Soulkey 605
Stork 282
Leta 245
Zeus 184
Mini 181
Last 121
[ Show more ]
ZerO 84
Sea.KH 65
ToSsGirL 63
910 52
Barracks 44
Aegong 29
sSak 19
SilentControl 16
Noble 13
Free 9
JulyZerg 8
Icarus 7
ajuk12(nOOB) 7
Britney 0
Dota 2
Gorgc6354
Dendi917
Other Games
singsing1859
B2W.Neo834
Lowko427
crisheroes298
DeMusliM279
mouzStarbuck238
Hui .161
XaKoH 115
Mew2King87
ZerO(Twitch)8
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream6642
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream3032
Other Games
gamesdonequick970
BasetradeTV33
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4560
League of Legends
• Jankos609
Upcoming Events
AI Arena Tournament
3h 18m
Replay Cast
10h 18m
GSL
21h 18m
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
1d 1h
Spirit vs Mixu
BSL
1d 5h
Ret vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
1d 10h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 20h
Shine vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
1d 21h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Light vs EffOrt
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-18
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.