• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 18:50
CET 00:50
KST 08:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - RO16 Preview3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational12SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)22Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued StarCraft 2 not at the Esports World Cup 2026 [Short Story] The Last GSL
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Fantasy's Q&A video BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Esports Advertising Shap…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1306 users

Deep Dive: Math and Magic and The Laws of Form

Blogs > Hildegard
Post a Reply
Hildegard
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
Germany348 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-01-04 12:03:47
December 28 2023 20:31 GMT
#1
Beware — if reading this blog doesn't challenge you intellectually, I would be surprised. Our topic will delve into knowledge scarcely any people possess despite it being freely available on the internet. “The Laws of Form” by George Spencer-Brown is significant in a way to which only the three religious books (and similar ones about Buddhism for example) (Old Testament, New Testament and the Quran) are comparable.  Enjoy: https://archive.org/details/lawsofform00spenrich

[image loading]

To build it up a bit, I have to write about a conversation I don't recall precisely.  Essentially, I was told that this book is similar to the secret knowledge of the Kabbalah. 

When I lived in Mewasseret Zion, a suburb of Jerusalem, for an internship in 2005 (or 2006?) as part of my university-program, my boss told me about a Kabbalah meeting he attended because Madonna, the singer, attended the same meeting. He told me that to be initiated, one had to be married and have a child. The good news is — “The Laws of Form” doesn't have any more requirements than opening a link on the World Wide Web.

It stings my old world European pride that this book has been written by a citizen of the “brexited” United Kingdom. At least, he wasn't a citizen of the United States. That would sting a lot more. In honour of George Spencer-Brown, I write this blog in British English. You are probably wondering by now why I haven't actually talked about the book yet. Point taken. 

The book “The Laws of Form” creates a new mathematic based partially on the liar's paradox in a slightly altered form:  “This statement is false.” Normally, the liar's paradox is described with “This sentence is a lie.”, but because this book is about mathematics, the change makes a lot of sense. According to Radical Constructivism (or René Descartes, some centuries earlier) we know nothing outside the fact that we exist because we can doubt that we exist. 

Our brain receives electrical signals from various sources. We all know that it is easy to create and alter electrical signals. For that reason, our world view is an uneducated guess that works well for our daily routines. When shopping in the supermarket, second guessing your optical senses complicates things unnecessarily. Looking at our perception of time makes it obvious that our interpretation of time can't be correct because if time is linear, there needs to be a starting point before the Big Bang. We can't explain why anything exists or how it started to exist. Introducing a God only adds a variable, but can't answer the question of how God began to be. So we can safely say that our interpretation of time is practical, but also undeniably wrong. 

There are countless explanations of the quantum world and if you are interested, I'm sure you can find many relevant resources. I'm just using it as a second example of why our world view has to be wrong. If you want to hear George Spencer-Brown talk about this topic, click on my quote or, for your convenience, this link:  https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form

The book “Laws of Form” introduces a method to describe things, that usually make our brains hurt, like paradoxes or the eternity of space. Explaining this is probably far too complex to attempt in a blog article. Of course, I will try it anyway. 

Let's start with three bullet points I shamelessly stole from Wikipedia:

  • The “primary arithmetic” (described in Chapter 4 of LoF), whose models include Boolean arithmetic;
  • The “primary algebra” (Chapter 6 of LoF), whose models include the two-element Boolean algebra (hereinafter abbreviated 2), Boolean logic, and the classical propositional calculus;
  • “Equations of the second degree” (Chapter 11), whose interpretations include finite automata and Alonzo Church’s Restricted Recursive Arithmetic (RRA).


If you don't understand the content of these three bullet points, yet, you probably have an easier time understanding the following statement: Because this new mathematic is based on a paradox, it can deal with things that maths typically cannot describe. For example, religion or magic. A study found in 2006 of the around 2000 participants that around 70% of the respondents believe to have had an unexplained paranormal event that changed their lives, mostly in a positive way. Read it again. The participants believe not only that supernatural things might exist, but they claim to actually have had an impactful encounter with something supernatural. This doesn't account for those lying about it because they would rather not be perceived as crazy. In short, most of the human population believes in some sort of magic.

What if “magic” was actually material, in the same way that light is a paradox (particle or wave), maybe we just lack the tools to measure it because of the uncertainty principle?

The book “Laws of Form” teaches the tools to describe the things we can't truly describe without it. Religious traditions like the Kabbalah or Buddhism allow describing phenomena like Quantum Entanglement as well. But for most of tl.net, it's probably easier to read a book about mathematics than to reach the Enlightenment. 

One cautionary tale, however. This book is magical in some way. People react very differently once they understand the principle called “reentry”. Women tend to deal with it easier. I got kicked into a massive manic episode after I finally understood the reentry while being in the bathtub in 2016. That was followed by a long phase of depression, which I came out of only a few months ago. Don't worry, I have an excellent female psychiatrist of nearly 70 years who understands the reentry as well. She is very pleased with my current development and I have all the medications I need. But it took a long time to build me up again. 

Secondly — this knowledge is a bit arcane. It opens options to use that mathematical magic for good or evil. I decided to use it for good, and I try not to use the dangerous elements because I believe that men are not really well-equipped to do so. My advice would be to learn, but be very hesitant to use it. The best approximations I can come up with are either that it's like if the bible (or the Quran or other enlightened texts) consisted of mathematical formulas or if magic was described and working with functions. Maybe just do what Spencer-Brown did and talk amused but not arrogant about people believing their perceptions to be true, or use it — like me — to create a bit of entertainment. 

The reason why I share this knowledge is that I don't want humanity to end up as pets for Artificial Intelligences, but rather cooperate with them to improve the state of our planet Earth.

I was too exhausted to re-read this blog and hope that it is understandable.

Some links about me:
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on YouTube Music
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on Facebook (as Franz Bieberkopf)
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on LinkedIn
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on X (Twitter)
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on Reddit
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on Instagram (barely used)
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on TikTok (using only German so far)
You are welcome.


*
tl.net humour: https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form
Ciaus237
Profile Joined July 2015
South Africa286 Posts
December 29 2023 08:11 GMT
#2
Dude, this is some crank shit.

For your own reasoning skills, and ability to see reality clear-eyed, you should step away from this stuff.
The time that we kill keeps us alive
Hildegard
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
Germany348 Posts
December 29 2023 12:32 GMT
#3
On December 29 2023 17:11 Ciaus237 wrote:
Dude, this is some crank shit.

For your own reasoning skills, and ability to see reality clear-eyed, you should step away from this stuff.


Trust me, once you understand, you neither can nor want to step away. You can only decide whether you want to use it or not. As I wrote - I use it mainly to create entertainment.
tl.net humour: https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nathanias 159
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 107
ggaemo 62
Sexy 37
Dota 2
febbydoto31
League of Legends
tarik_tv9402
JimRising 509
Counter-Strike
minikerr32
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1150
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor203
Other Games
gofns11762
summit1g7870
FrodaN1507
ViBE110
KnowMe57
PiLiPiLi3
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1939
BasetradeTV55
StarCraft 2
angryscii 54
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 8
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH300
• RyuSc2 53
• musti20045 48
• Hupsaiya 31
• Sammyuel 27
• Kozan
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 10
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21984
League of Legends
• Doublelift5807
• Scarra818
Other Games
• imaqtpie3004
• Shiphtur300
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
10m
CranKy Ducklings1
Replay Cast
9h 10m
RongYI Cup
11h 10m
Maru vs Cyan
Solar vs Krystianer
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
12h 10m
BSL 21
15h 10m
Replay Cast
1d
Wardi Open
1d 14h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 17h
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W5
OSC Championship Season 13
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3
Tektek Cup #1
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025

Upcoming

Acropolis #4 - TS4
Escore Tournament S1: W6
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.