• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:49
CET 16:49
KST 00:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !3Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win3Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
Did they add GM to 2v2? Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1: Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2181 users

Deep Dive: Math and Magic and The Laws of Form

Blogs > Hildegard
Post a Reply
Hildegard
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
Germany348 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-01-04 12:03:47
December 28 2023 20:31 GMT
#1
Beware — if reading this blog doesn't challenge you intellectually, I would be surprised. Our topic will delve into knowledge scarcely any people possess despite it being freely available on the internet. “The Laws of Form” by George Spencer-Brown is significant in a way to which only the three religious books (and similar ones about Buddhism for example) (Old Testament, New Testament and the Quran) are comparable.  Enjoy: https://archive.org/details/lawsofform00spenrich

[image loading]

To build it up a bit, I have to write about a conversation I don't recall precisely.  Essentially, I was told that this book is similar to the secret knowledge of the Kabbalah. 

When I lived in Mewasseret Zion, a suburb of Jerusalem, for an internship in 2005 (or 2006?) as part of my university-program, my boss told me about a Kabbalah meeting he attended because Madonna, the singer, attended the same meeting. He told me that to be initiated, one had to be married and have a child. The good news is — “The Laws of Form” doesn't have any more requirements than opening a link on the World Wide Web.

It stings my old world European pride that this book has been written by a citizen of the “brexited” United Kingdom. At least, he wasn't a citizen of the United States. That would sting a lot more. In honour of George Spencer-Brown, I write this blog in British English. You are probably wondering by now why I haven't actually talked about the book yet. Point taken. 

The book “The Laws of Form” creates a new mathematic based partially on the liar's paradox in a slightly altered form:  “This statement is false.” Normally, the liar's paradox is described with “This sentence is a lie.”, but because this book is about mathematics, the change makes a lot of sense. According to Radical Constructivism (or René Descartes, some centuries earlier) we know nothing outside the fact that we exist because we can doubt that we exist. 

Our brain receives electrical signals from various sources. We all know that it is easy to create and alter electrical signals. For that reason, our world view is an uneducated guess that works well for our daily routines. When shopping in the supermarket, second guessing your optical senses complicates things unnecessarily. Looking at our perception of time makes it obvious that our interpretation of time can't be correct because if time is linear, there needs to be a starting point before the Big Bang. We can't explain why anything exists or how it started to exist. Introducing a God only adds a variable, but can't answer the question of how God began to be. So we can safely say that our interpretation of time is practical, but also undeniably wrong. 

There are countless explanations of the quantum world and if you are interested, I'm sure you can find many relevant resources. I'm just using it as a second example of why our world view has to be wrong. If you want to hear George Spencer-Brown talk about this topic, click on my quote or, for your convenience, this link:  https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form

The book “Laws of Form” introduces a method to describe things, that usually make our brains hurt, like paradoxes or the eternity of space. Explaining this is probably far too complex to attempt in a blog article. Of course, I will try it anyway. 

Let's start with three bullet points I shamelessly stole from Wikipedia:

  • The “primary arithmetic” (described in Chapter 4 of LoF), whose models include Boolean arithmetic;
  • The “primary algebra” (Chapter 6 of LoF), whose models include the two-element Boolean algebra (hereinafter abbreviated 2), Boolean logic, and the classical propositional calculus;
  • “Equations of the second degree” (Chapter 11), whose interpretations include finite automata and Alonzo Church’s Restricted Recursive Arithmetic (RRA).


If you don't understand the content of these three bullet points, yet, you probably have an easier time understanding the following statement: Because this new mathematic is based on a paradox, it can deal with things that maths typically cannot describe. For example, religion or magic. A study found in 2006 of the around 2000 participants that around 70% of the respondents believe to have had an unexplained paranormal event that changed their lives, mostly in a positive way. Read it again. The participants believe not only that supernatural things might exist, but they claim to actually have had an impactful encounter with something supernatural. This doesn't account for those lying about it because they would rather not be perceived as crazy. In short, most of the human population believes in some sort of magic.

What if “magic” was actually material, in the same way that light is a paradox (particle or wave), maybe we just lack the tools to measure it because of the uncertainty principle?

The book “Laws of Form” teaches the tools to describe the things we can't truly describe without it. Religious traditions like the Kabbalah or Buddhism allow describing phenomena like Quantum Entanglement as well. But for most of tl.net, it's probably easier to read a book about mathematics than to reach the Enlightenment. 

One cautionary tale, however. This book is magical in some way. People react very differently once they understand the principle called “reentry”. Women tend to deal with it easier. I got kicked into a massive manic episode after I finally understood the reentry while being in the bathtub in 2016. That was followed by a long phase of depression, which I came out of only a few months ago. Don't worry, I have an excellent female psychiatrist of nearly 70 years who understands the reentry as well. She is very pleased with my current development and I have all the medications I need. But it took a long time to build me up again. 

Secondly — this knowledge is a bit arcane. It opens options to use that mathematical magic for good or evil. I decided to use it for good, and I try not to use the dangerous elements because I believe that men are not really well-equipped to do so. My advice would be to learn, but be very hesitant to use it. The best approximations I can come up with are either that it's like if the bible (or the Quran or other enlightened texts) consisted of mathematical formulas or if magic was described and working with functions. Maybe just do what Spencer-Brown did and talk amused but not arrogant about people believing their perceptions to be true, or use it — like me — to create a bit of entertainment. 

The reason why I share this knowledge is that I don't want humanity to end up as pets for Artificial Intelligences, but rather cooperate with them to improve the state of our planet Earth.

I was too exhausted to re-read this blog and hope that it is understandable.

Some links about me:
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on YouTube Music
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on Facebook (as Franz Bieberkopf)
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on LinkedIn
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on X (Twitter)
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on Reddit
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on Instagram (barely used)
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on TikTok (using only German so far)
You are welcome.


*
tl.net humour: https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form
Ciaus237
Profile Joined July 2015
South Africa286 Posts
December 29 2023 08:11 GMT
#2
Dude, this is some crank shit.

For your own reasoning skills, and ability to see reality clear-eyed, you should step away from this stuff.
The time that we kill keeps us alive
Hildegard
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
Germany348 Posts
December 29 2023 12:32 GMT
#3
On December 29 2023 17:11 Ciaus237 wrote:
Dude, this is some crank shit.

For your own reasoning skills, and ability to see reality clear-eyed, you should step away from this stuff.


Trust me, once you understand, you neither can nor want to step away. You can only decide whether you want to use it or not. As I wrote - I use it mainly to create entertainment.
tl.net humour: https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV 2025
13:00
Playoffs
herO vs SpiritLIVE!
Scarlett vs Gerald
Rogue vs Shameless
MaNa vs ShoWTimE
Nice vs Creator
WardiTV1489
ComeBackTV 711
TaKeTV 391
IndyStarCraft 241
Rex133
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko450
Hui .262
IndyStarCraft 241
Rex 133
ProTech81
BRAT_OK 66
DivinesiaTV 15
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 30554
Sea 3326
Calm 2543
Mini 1017
Larva 942
EffOrt 927
Horang2 894
ZerO 489
Soma 474
GuemChi 390
[ Show more ]
Snow 350
Stork 312
firebathero 304
Rush 213
Sharp 194
hero 154
PianO 104
Hyun 81
JYJ 57
Mind 45
Light 43
Pusan 40
sorry 39
Sea.KH 38
Mong 33
soO 29
Aegong 29
Killer 27
Movie 25
Terrorterran 22
scan(afreeca) 17
Shine 10
Dota 2
Gorgc5864
singsing4294
qojqva3114
Dendi1108
syndereN334
Counter-Strike
byalli1341
oskar154
markeloff125
Other Games
B2W.Neo1421
Beastyqt618
crisheroes353
mouzStarbuck168
QueenE91
Livibee77
Mew2King54
DeMusliM42
Trikslyr30
ZerO(Twitch)20
nookyyy 14
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 5
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 17
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV589
League of Legends
• Nemesis2487
• TFBlade754
Upcoming Events
WardiTV 2025
19h 11m
ByuN vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
OSC
22h 11m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 18h
WardiTV 2025
1d 19h
SC Evo League
1d 20h
Ladder Legends
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
BSL 21
3 days
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.