• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:23
CEST 16:23
KST 23:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 Maps and Their Real World Inspirations13[ASL16] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Blunt Impact10The Best Worst Final: sOs vs INnoVation11[ASL16] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Rematches10ZeroSpace - Xol Faction Reveal57
Community News
SSLT/Starving Camels Q&A: "Everyone else underestimated us greatly"3ESL Open #194: Dark, Clem, ByuN win2WTL 2023 Winter Tournaments42023 Code S Season 3 Ro16 Groups9New PTR Patch 5.0.12123
StarCraft 2
General
David Kim, Blizzard vets to work on new RTS New SC2 Balance Test Mod (along with new map pool) SC2 Maps and Their Real World Inspirations Regarding the PTR Cyclone as a Core Unit ESL Open #194: Dark, Clem, ByuN win
Tourneys
[WTL 2023] Winter - Week 1 [AfreecaTV Pro Series] Cure vs soO PIG STY FESTIVAL 4.0! (20-24 September) [AfreecaTV Pro Series] Astrea vs GuMiho GdA-Night Tournament
Strategy
Terran wave calculator Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] YAKS LOTV: Yet Another hotKey Setup - zerg Practice Partner Thread Season 1 - 2018
Custom Maps
StarLance | Extension Mod – Multiplayer LotV
External Content
Mutation # 388 Resilient Rifts Mutation # 387 Train of Pain Mutation # 386 Dance Dance Evolution Mutation # 385 Knock Knock
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.com/ Grrr stars in new Netflix Drama Restoration should be researched in TvZ BW General Discussion Gameplay wins / funny fails in twitch-clip format
Tourneys
New Worlds Star League [ASL16] Ro8 Day 3 [ASL16] Ro8 Day 4 BSL Season 17
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Why is ____ not used for (Matchup here)? ZvP Retro Walls Hiding Defilers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Cyberpunk 2077 Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 The PlayStation 5 FF7 remake for PS4 announced
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[Summer Split] LoL Esports General Discussion
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes International Nations Cup - Berlin 2023 HotS: WP and Funny Moments
Hearthstone
Is Hearthstone Gambling?
TL Mafia
TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown TL Mafia Community Thread Everybody smurfs for TTT mafia Quarterly Mafia 1 - part 2 QM Part 2 Vote Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Summer Games Done Quick 2022! NASA and the Private Sector Mexico's Drug War
Fan Clubs
RotterdaM Fan Club The Stephano Fan Club Mvp Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Manga] Berserk Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion!
Sports
2023 - 2024 Football Thread NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion 2023 NFL/CFB Season TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022 Thread
Tech Support
Cannot log into Liquipedia.net using tl.net accoun
TL Community
Gay StarCraft Players The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Jumper cheats his way …
Luke-AI-lycan
Baal's last 15 years, with …
WGT-Baal
Returning to Starcraft. Balance …
-_-
About parenting
Uldridge
EternaLEnVy Post DotA Tr…
EternaLEnVy
Darius the great Golden plates…
kfpnw
Three Volume VI
Mizenhauer
ASL S16 English Commentarie…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2058 users

Teaching Students StarCraft in Korea

Blogs > Lovethelord
Post a Reply
Lovethelord
Profile Blog Joined January 2023
25 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-05-05 10:28:08
February 10 2023 01:26 GMT
#1
/DELETED

****
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8432 Posts
February 10 2023 03:20 GMT
#2
all i can say is i wish i had a teacher like you. playing starcraft at school as part of an actual school program is the dream
Peeano
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Netherlands4240 Posts
February 10 2023 05:37 GMT
#3
It seems like you already have a great idea how to handle this, but here's my 2cts:

I would definitely teach them 1a2a3a if I were you. Since they're beginners I'd do make a little lesson where they can't click a portrait to build a worker or additional supply, since these are the most common things you will build. This will teach them time mangement and multitasking.

For a recommended ASL game you should ask yourself what you want to showcase. Insane multitasking or methodical positional play and outmacro or some early rushes?
If I were you I'd pick a game where one player is on the verge of losing and then pulls out a win through sheer persistence and capatalizing on an enemy's mistake. This will teach them that making mistakes is only human and that anything is possible if you put your mind to it.
FBH #1!
smille
Profile Joined February 2022
30 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-02-10 15:04:15
February 10 2023 15:02 GMT
#4
Awesome, I definitely would have loved such a class myself!

My thoughts on how to structure the course (although I have no pedagogic background at all):

I think it would be wise to aim very low skill-wise. Just like with other school subjects, I would start with super basic stuff. I feel like providing build orders or training shortcuts are already a step too far. Sure, it depends on their motivation and skill, but from my experience, the difficulties of anyone playing an RTS for their first time, are inconceivable to someone being used to playing ladder games.
Also on the topic of build orders. I think, it’d pose an interesting challenge to figure out the order and timing of the first few buildings and units yourself. You could let them come up with their own meta.

Regarding, how to let them practice, I’d say custom maps are a good way to go. Restrict available buildings and units. Invisibility, aoe and air units might be unnecessarily complex and frustrating. Let them develop their build order against scripted challenges. Micro challenges are possible as well. Basically, many RTS campaigns & challenge levels already demonstrate ways to teach the player first steps and beyond.
Real 1on1s amongst the students could lead to some toxic competition. However, after all, it is what “matters” in the RTS universe.
It could also be helpful to watch and analyze their replays together. Watching a super epic professional match, could be a good way to inspire them, but on the other hand it will be hard to appreciate all the details in the beginning.

There are so many things to consider. I would love to try my ideas myself and see how it pans out. :D All in all, I believe my goals are more fitting for a real subject, which is taught over the course of a few years. If it’s a one year class or so, I think I
d need to overthink it quite a bit.

I’m sure you will succeed in offering a fun and memorable course. Good luck with it!
Lovethelord
Profile Blog Joined January 2023
25 Posts
February 10 2023 22:18 GMT
#5
On February 10 2023 12:20 evilfatsh1t wrote:
all i can say is i wish i had a teacher like you. playing starcraft at school as part of an actual school program is the dream


Thank you Evil, glad to see you still around! Long live BW.

On February 11 2023 00:02 smille wrote:
Awesome, I definitely would have loved such a class myself!

My thoughts on how to structure the course (although I have no pedagogic background at all):

I think it would be wise to aim very low skill-wise. Just like with other school subjects, I would start with super basic stuff. I feel like providing build orders or training shortcuts are already a step too far. Sure, it depends on their motivation and skill, but from my experience, the difficulties of anyone playing an RTS for their first time, are inconceivable to someone being used to playing ladder games.
Also on the topic of build orders. I think, it’d pose an interesting challenge to figure out the order and timing of the first few buildings and units yourself. You could let them come up with their own meta.

Regarding, how to let them practice, I’d say custom maps are a good way to go. Restrict available buildings and units. Invisibility, aoe and air units might be unnecessarily complex and frustrating. Let them develop their build order against scripted challenges. Micro challenges are possible as well. Basically, many RTS campaigns & challenge levels already demonstrate ways to teach the player first steps and beyond.
Real 1on1s amongst the students could lead to some toxic competition. However, after all, it is what “matters” in the RTS universe.
It could also be helpful to watch and analyze their replays together. Watching a super epic professional match, could be a good way to inspire them, but on the other hand it will be hard to appreciate all the details in the beginning.

There are so many things to consider. I would love to try my ideas myself and see how it pans out. :D All in all, I believe my goals are more fitting for a real subject, which is taught over the course of a few years. If it’s a one year class or so, I think I
d need to overthink it quite a bit.

I’m sure you will succeed in offering a fun and memorable course. Good luck with it!


This is great. I love the idea about restricting buildings so that they can learn one thing at a time instead of being overwhelmed by all the different units. That's a brilliant idea, thank you. Thank you so much.

On February 10 2023 14:37 Peeano wrote:
It seems like you already have a great idea how to handle this, but here's my 2cts:

I would definitely teach them 1a2a3a if I were you. Since they're beginners I'd do make a little lesson where they can't click a portrait to build a worker or additional supply, since these are the most common things you will build. This will teach them time mangement and multitasking.

For a recommended ASL game you should ask yourself what you want to showcase. Insane multitasking or methodical positional play and outmacro or some early rushes?
If I were you I'd pick a game where one player is on the verge of losing and then pulls out a win through sheer persistence and capatalizing on an enemy's mistake. This will teach them that making mistakes is only human and that anything is possible if you put your mind to it.


Hello Peeano, glad to see you still here! Long live BW. 1a2a3a, yes, this is the most important lesson. =)
I love the idea about not being able to click the portrait or buttons. You gave me an idea for a fun challenge/lesson.

Regarding games where anything is possible if you put your mind to it, do you have a replay of such a game? Something that is in the Starcraft Remastered era. A replay file would also work because I don't want to show them blood. Thank you so much.
Peeano
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Netherlands4240 Posts
February 10 2023 22:52 GMT
#6
I'm afraid I don't. I think your best bet to a get a good remastered replay is to ask ZZZero, Bonyth, Dewalt, Sziky or Scan. They visit this forum frequently and I imagine they can give you an interesting replay at least.
FBH #1!
Lazyer
Profile Joined August 2011
United States250 Posts
February 10 2023 23:32 GMT
#7
Aw this is so cute! Kind of funny seeing Cartooned as a requirement, but it totally makes sense (kids).

Did you have them make IGNs? Also, with the proximity, I wonder if they'll learn how to screen cheat
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium4204 Posts
February 11 2023 11:59 GMT
#8
Showmatch: Jangbi's last (or was it next to last) OSL run. Especially G4 vs Soulkey and G5 I want to say vs Fantasy. Actually, the entire Jangbi vs Fantasy series is amazing.
Taxes are for Terrans
Akio
Profile Joined January 2019
Finland1804 Posts
February 11 2023 21:10 GMT
#9
Seeing this is so heartwarming, I love how the kid in the front has a binder with a unit cheat sheet with him haha

I'm interested, were the kids who signed up heavily involved in gaming in general or did they know StarCraft because of the cultural phenomenon aspect? I can imagine some parents getting real excited hearing this exists in their children's school.

Love what you're doing, good luck! I'm sure a future bonjwa is amongst these students
Mine gas, build tanks.
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
February 11 2023 23:45 GMT
#10
I love the manuals haha. When I got into StarCraft 1v1 I printed out Tsunami's guide. Some of it still seems to be accessible through webarchive http://web.archive.org/web/20021230095445/http://brattsunami.redcloak.org/mistakes.html

If you consider that this guide was written very early in SC history (but I think after the last balance patch), it would be hard to come across a better source of inspiration for how to think about StarCraft from first principles. I haven't reviewed it so I don't know if it is school appropriate, it might be possible to wholesale copy it. I'm pretty sure but not positive Tsunami did not use `gamer words`
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24539 Posts
February 13 2023 10:14 GMT
#11
I'm a teacher, and I think it should be less about teaching them Starcraft and more about teaching them a mind-set. Starcraft is nice, but learning how to learn is something that lasts forever. I used to work in a truly awful school, full of problems and social issues, but some of the students persevered in particular. These were the swimmers. They had learned that you have to just hunker down and do the work. Starcraft is really good in the same instance. Teach them that you concentrate on a small thing, over and over again. Teach them "grit". That will be good for them for the rest of their lives.
Cryoc
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany908 Posts
February 14 2023 22:17 GMT
#12
Regarding replays to showcase comebacks, you can also use older replays, if you have a particular game in mind. Most 1.16.1 era replays should still work fine.
Other than that I can offer you two of my replays on low S level, where I made comebacks after getting busted:
https://repmastered.app/game/bZRIbImgWtCwvc1ZPhJjAS_ZsIB9DNSCXltJFCcT2Es
https://repmastered.app/game/NKyZEyPsepPZWkaMUD2kn4Q_8l2WAePagTShYac_Jcc
http://www.twitch.tv/cryoc
Lovethelord
Profile Blog Joined January 2023
25 Posts
February 15 2023 04:12 GMT
#13
On February 15 2023 07:17 Cryoc wrote:
Regarding replays to showcase comebacks, you can also use older replays, if you have a particular game in mind. Most 1.16.1 era replays should still work fine.
Other than that I can offer you two of my replays on low S level, where I made comebacks after getting busted:
https://repmastered.app/game/bZRIbImgWtCwvc1ZPhJjAS_ZsIB9DNSCXltJFCcT2Es
https://repmastered.app/game/NKyZEyPsepPZWkaMUD2kn4Q_8l2WAePagTShYac_Jcc


Thank you Cryoc. I love your build order tutorials for Terran.
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4666 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-02-15 16:16:11
February 15 2023 16:06 GMT
#14
Yea I remember you. You're amazing!

On February 13 2023 19:14 Heartland wrote:
I'm a teacher, and I think it should be less about teaching them Starcraft and more about teaching them a mind-set. Starcraft is nice, but learning how to learn is something that lasts forever. I used to work in a truly awful school, full of problems and social issues, but some of the students persevered in particular. These were the swimmers. They had learned that you have to just hunker down and do the work. Starcraft is really good in the same instance. Teach them that you concentrate on a small thing, over and over again. Teach them "grit". That will be good for them for the rest of their lives.

yea good point, strcraft teaches us lots of other life lessons too, including:
1) Understanding risk vs reward, tradeoffs and analysing "decision trees" (imo this is what makes Starcraft such a beautiful game).
2) Optimisation of time and energy.
3) Making decisions under stress, with imperfect information.
4) Learning how to gather information.
5) Being comfortable with stress and a steep learning curve.
6) Learning how to improve yourself by analysing and reflecting on your past errors.

and others I can't think of in a few minutes that someone else might want to add in

Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Lovethelord
Profile Blog Joined January 2023
25 Posts
February 15 2023 23:41 GMT
#15
On February 16 2023 01:06 JieXian wrote:
Yea I remember you. You're amazing!

Show nested quote +
On February 13 2023 19:14 Heartland wrote:
I'm a teacher, and I think it should be less about teaching them Starcraft and more about teaching them a mind-set. Starcraft is nice, but learning how to learn is something that lasts forever. I used to work in a truly awful school, full of problems and social issues, but some of the students persevered in particular. These were the swimmers. They had learned that you have to just hunker down and do the work. Starcraft is really good in the same instance. Teach them that you concentrate on a small thing, over and over again. Teach them "grit". That will be good for them for the rest of their lives.

yea good point, strcraft teaches us lots of other life lessons too, including:
1) Understanding risk vs reward, tradeoffs and analysing "decision trees" (imo this is what makes Starcraft such a beautiful game).
2) Optimisation of time and energy.
3) Making decisions under stress, with imperfect information.
4) Learning how to gather information.
5) Being comfortable with stress and a steep learning curve.
6) Learning how to improve yourself by analysing and reflecting on your past errors.

and others I can't think of in a few minutes that someone else might want to add in



^^ Yes, they are learning this in every session. The highs and lows from wins and losses are something they are dealing with right now.
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4666 Posts
February 16 2023 02:05 GMT
#16
On February 16 2023 08:41 Lovethelord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2023 01:06 JieXian wrote:
Yea I remember you. You're amazing!

On February 13 2023 19:14 Heartland wrote:
I'm a teacher, and I think it should be less about teaching them Starcraft and more about teaching them a mind-set. Starcraft is nice, but learning how to learn is something that lasts forever. I used to work in a truly awful school, full of problems and social issues, but some of the students persevered in particular. These were the swimmers. They had learned that you have to just hunker down and do the work. Starcraft is really good in the same instance. Teach them that you concentrate on a small thing, over and over again. Teach them "grit". That will be good for them for the rest of their lives.

yea good point, strcraft teaches us lots of other life lessons too, including:
1) Understanding risk vs reward, tradeoffs and analysing "decision trees" (imo this is what makes Starcraft such a beautiful game).
2) Optimisation of time and energy.
3) Making decisions under stress, with imperfect information.
4) Learning how to gather information.
5) Being comfortable with stress and a steep learning curve.
6) Learning how to improve yourself by analysing and reflecting on your past errors.

and others I can't think of in a few minutes that someone else might want to add in



^^ Yes, they are learning this in every session. The highs and lows from wins and losses are something they are dealing with right now.

fantastic!
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Poll)
Profile Joined April 2023
Poland3 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-05-04 18:00:27
May 01 2023 18:03 GMT
#17
--- Nuked ---
mrgrido
Profile Joined May 2023
1 Post
May 12 2023 01:51 GMT
#18
--- Nuked ---
alexejderkach36prpc
Profile Joined May 2023
1 Post
May 12 2023 11:36 GMT
#19
--- Nuked ---
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Korean Royale
11:00
Groups Final Day
Maru vs DongRaeGu
Creator vs NightMare
herO vs StatsLIVE!
WardiTV1709
Crank 834
IndyStarCraft 130
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Crank 834
Lowko416
Harstem 353
IndyStarCraft 130
SC2Nice 27
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 7366
Sea 5148
Rain 3016
EffOrt 2768
GuemChi 2121
Bisu 1862
Jaedong 1717
BeSt 1640
Snow 640
Light 585
[ Show more ]
Soma 468
ggaemo 448
hero 270
Last 155
firebathero 149
Tyson 141
Hyun 97
firebathero (twitch) 86
sorry 84
Sharp 73
Mind 65
sSak 51
GoRush 46
Free 45
[sc1f]eonzerg 41
Rock 18
HiyA 18
Sexy 11
Purpose 10
Killer 6
Dota 2
Gorgc10599
singsing3967
qojqva3287
Dendi2396
XcaliburYe395
Fuzer 285
canceldota111
PGG 102
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
olofmeister5951
markeloff414
Foxcn297
Other Games
crisheroes744
Mew2King279
flusha231
ToD157
ArmadaUGS78
Trikslyr73
QueenE57
KnowMe34
NarutO 26
Organizations
Other Games
B2W.Neo1063
StarCraft 2
Esl_sc299
ESL.tv99
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 4
StarcraftVOD4
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• aXEnki
• intothetv
• Gussbus
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamez Trovo
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
• Poblha
StarCraft: Brood War
• sscaitournament1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis6472
• TFBlade930
Upcoming Events
WardiTV European League
1h 37m
SKillous vs Elazer
HeRoMaRinE vs TriGGeR
PassionCraft
2h 37m
World Team League
21h 37m
Onsyde Gaming vs Freecs
Matcherino Esports vs Shopify Rebellion
Korean StarCraft League
1d 12h
Grand Platypus Open
1d 17h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 20h
World Team League
1d 21h
Mystery Gaming vs DKZ Gaming
Platinum Heroes vs Starlight Twinkle
Sniper's StarCraft League
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
[ Show More ]
World Team League
2 days
Team Liquid vs BASILISK
SSLT vs PSISTORM Gaming
BSL
3 days
ESL Open Cup
3 days
ESL Open Cup
4 days
ESL Open Cup
4 days
WardiTV European League
5 days
Kelazhur vs MaNa
Spirit vs Harstem
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 10: 2023 Fall
PiG Sty Festival 4.0
Raven Court Inhouse League
CCT Online Finals #3

Ongoing

FS Mania
BSL 25x25
ASL Season 16
GSL2023 S2
WardiTV Korean Royale S2
Calamity Stars
ESL Challenger League S46 NA
ESL Challenger League S46 AP
ESL Pro League Season 18

Upcoming

BSL Season 17
Copa Latinoamericana Season 2
Bombastic 25th Anniversary LAN
ESL Winter
ESL Winter: Asia
ESL Winter: Americas
ESL Winter: Europe
2023 GSL S3: Code S
WTL 2023 Winter
BlizzTour 4
CS:GO Asia Championships 2023
FiReLEAGUE Global Finals
Thunderpick World Championship
Roobet Cup 2023
IEM Sydney 2023
ESL Challenger League S46 EU
BLAST Premier Fall AME Showdown
BLAST Premier Fall EU Showdown
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2023 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.