I made this a blog because it seemed too political for the Covid thread and too much Covid for the politics thread.
I was wondering how States were preforming currently managing the spread of Covid-19 right now. And comparing that to who they voted for in 2016. My hypothesis was that, given by now the timing of Covid coming over has normalized and states would have had time to institute whatever localized program they felt was best, states who had a lot of Trump supporters would be having more new cases per 100,000 because those supporters would be less likely to wear masks, social distance or other measures stated by public health since they were getting conflicting advice from the president they voted for. This group of people would exist across the country in all states but smaller percentages where Hilary recieved more.
For the cases per 100,000 I used this interactive map from NPR as well as their color coding described their (blue great, yellow good, orange bad, red real bad (actual descriptions in link))
For States that voted Trump in 2016 as of today they were preforming
Blue = 0% Yellow = 10% Orange = 67% Red = 23%
For States who voted Hilary in 2016 they were preforming
Blue = 5% Yellow = 65% Orange = 30% Red = 0%
This is a very pronounced and dramatic difference. It could also "worse" than the numbers suggest as you would think people who fall in the non believer category would also be less likely to get tested.
But even if we just go with what we have, states who voted Hilary are managing the spread WAY better than states that voted for Trump.
On September 23 2020 11:19 JimmiC wrote: I made this a blog because it seemed too political for the Covid thread and too much Covid for the politics thread.
I was wondering how States were preforming currently managing the spread of Covid-19 right now. And comparing that to who they voted for in 2016. My hypothesis was that, given by now the timing of Covid coming over has normalized and states would have had time to institute whatever localized program they felt was best, states who had a lot of Trump supporters would be having more new cases per 100,000 because those supporters would be less likely to wear masks, social distance or other measures stated by public health since they were getting conflicting advice from the president they voted for. This group of people would exist across the country in all states but smaller percentages where Hilary recieved more.
For the cases per 100,000 I used this interactive map from NPR as well as their color coding described their (blue great, yellow good, orange bad, red real bad (actual descriptions in link))
For States that voted Trump in 2016 as of today they were preforming
Blue = 0% Yellow = 10% Orange = 67% Red = 23%
For States who voted Hilary in 2016 they were preforming
Blue = 5% Yellow = 65% Orange = 30% Red = 0%
This is a very pronounced and dramatic difference. It could also "worse" than the numbers suggest as you would think people who fall in the non believer category would also be less likely to get tested.
But even if we just go with what we have, states who voted Hilary are managing the spread WAY better than states that voted for Trump.
not my opinion but a conservative would probably say something like "the blue states got it first so they had more time to get it together, so to speak."
I would respond that if that was true the peaks would have lasted the same length just started and ended later in the Trump states. I also think it is not "conservatives" that are preforming worse but Trumps brand of rightwing populism that is. When you move to the not trusting science, making everything even facts political version of conservatism, the performance is dramatically worse.
I was wondering when Oklahoma would start getting numbers up, it was only a matter of time. There are a lot of people around here who generally don't wear a mask (except in stores requiring it,) and some establishments have never enforced mask policies.
The red state/blue state covid narrative is a really difficult one to pin down given all the confounding factors, so I think you're too confident in the assertion that blue states are managing things better than red states, especially based on a snapshot of how things are today.
Yes Trump supporters are less likely to follow basic health measures. And yes Republican governors have been on average more reluctant to impose measures such as mandatory mask policies.
However blue states also had larger outbreaks earlier in the year which may result in people there being more cautious, and some proportion of the population being immune. Additionally red and blue states both have predominantly blue cities and red rural areas, with the cities also being hit hard earlier in the pandemic than the redder less dense rural areas. And the weather also seems to have a sizeable effect on the behaviour of people and accordingly the spread of covid which means that during summer heatwaves in the South where everyone stays inside for AC we saw cases surge across the South including California. And it's not as though Trump supporters will act all that differently based on if they live in a red, blue or purple state.
No area in the states especially those hit earlier have higher immunity numbers. There are many states that have passed New York in cases per 100,000 and deaths' per 100,000. If this was any sort of major factor they would now be preforming better not continuing to get worse.
The cautious is certainly a factor but being in N.C. seeing it in NewYork and not thinking it can happen there is crazy. This is an American thing as other countries such as ours have been able to pass this knowledge too each other.
Weather is a issue, but not in the way you seem to think. There is no data that supports that Flu season is in the summer in hot places. Not to mention being inside in AC is not a problem, being inside in large groups too close together is. New Mexico is also not so much cooler than Utah, Oklahoma, Kentucky and so on.
I already discussed that Trump supporters will not act that differently depending on the state but there is more in states that voted for Trump. And many will act differently because of social norming. If you walk into a store with a mask in hand and everyone has on a mask, you will be far more likely to put it on than if no one is. And that is even independent of your own beliefs.
This is the problem with America right now. People make quick assumptions and treat them like facts to explain and discount things.
Too you point that more Trump supporters are rural, it is getting way worse in rural, and instead of this causes people to change behavior as it did in urban centers that are far more challenged when it comes to stopping spread because of density and multifamily housing rates compared to single family homes it is getting worse. Even in the same state, where the weather is the same and so on. So all your reasons suggest that in each state the rural should be doing much better than those cities, but they are not.
The dubious thing is having no methodology, making snap assumptions without thinking them through logically. This leads to people only hearing what confirms what they already believe, confirmation bias.
Many states have passed New York in cases per capita, but New York is still number 2 in deaths per capita (with fellow blue states New Jersey being 1st and Massachusetts being 3rd), so you're just wrong there. There is the argument that treatments have improved which means a lower mortality rate later in the pandemic, but regardless blue states still have the most deaths per capita (so far). Additionally I haven't seen any seroprevalence studies that have shown any area of the US to have more cases than the potentially 20% infected that NY metro hit.
And social norming won't always work in your favour in blue states, since many Trump supporters almost by definition live in very red counties where they will see people not wear masks. Additionally the dynamics of how a virus spreads in urban and rural settings, and your categorization of red and blue states based on the 2016 election are not nearly as straightforward as you seem to think they are. Like Wisconsin has a Democratic governor, but still has one of the worst outbreaks of the country currently. And many of the heavily affected states like Arizona or Florida are purple states more than anything else (albeit with Republican governors).
Confirmation bias is precisely the definition of what you're doing. You're assuming that because Trump supporters engage in 'worse' behaviour vis a vis the pandemic that it means red states will do worse overall than blue states. It's a reasonable assumption in of itself (though throwing things into the bucket of red states and blue states is probably not a great way to look at things), but just looking at which states have the worst outbreaks today and calling that 'evidence' is faulty reasoning.
I should have said counties and not states, I misspoke in the post but this is also why I include sources which explain better and in more detail.
Again you seem confused by my premise, it is Trump voters not dem vs reps. That is why I determined the states not by their governor but by who they voted in 2016. I've also pointed out how if you want to go deeper you can look at counties and specific areas and see the trends continue. For example Austin compared to many of the rural counties in Texas.
Mine is a presumption which I state as much, then I provide data to try to back it up. Yours are a mix of assumptions and presumptions with zero effort to prove and mostly are already countered by both what I have written or by the sources I included.
The point is not that this is perfect and will be right eveytime everywhere. It is that having a president that disagrees with public health orders because of reasons he makes up in his head, will cause his supporters to either belive him or do the same causing the outbreaks to continue where people continue to not follow the protocol.
. Trump could make a big difference with his supporters by telling them to follow public health suggestions and rules. If you trust CEOs more than government doctors this one in Kentucky is begging people too and says it is affecting every age group, non preconditions and not practically no one as Trump is saying with 200k dead and millions of others with likely lifetime long problems.
If you dive into the data, and you try to prove that areas where Trump support is highest they are doing well you will really struggle. So you can believe it is a partisan virus that behaves exceptionally in the USA, or that having a non believer as a head of state, the more vocal the worse, will negatively effect performance.
I'm not arguing that areas with large number of Trump voters are doing well in this pandemic--they aren't, or that Trump's often cavalier attitude towards the pandemic has not resulted in his supporter engaging in unsafe behaviour.
I'm arguing that the evidence you've presented does not adequately establish a causal relationship between red states and the severity of the outbreak there, and that other factors such as the severity of previous outbreaks in those states/counties have to be accounted for, and aren't accounted for by a snapshot of how things are going right now.
Now is what we have, we can check again in a month and see then. Obviously this is not a scientific paper that is going to prove a causal link definitively, if I put in that time and effort I would need a team and I would present it in a journal for peer review. This is a "I wonder if areas where Trump won are preforming worse" " oh shit they are and it is dramatically worse, there is likely something too this,"
How hard they were hit is probably also a factor, I think you misinterpreted that I think this is the only factor. However, you can take all the blue and red states that were hit hard early and still the trend will remain. You can also look outside the US and see that areas that are now doing well have experienced heatwave, low initial peaks, and all the other reasons you came up with and yet they are not preforming even close to as poorly. What is different? Who they trust and who they get their information from.
edit: said in another way. My hypothesis makes sense to not impact other countries in the same way because Trump is American. Your reasoning does not cross borders with any consistency, why not?
None of that is related to more daily infections which is what is being measured.
Edit: I read it as a counter, but if you are making it as an addition that is also likely true that it is likely that more of the Trump voters have died. Especially in the second 100,000 which has happened more in rural.
After reading the book Anti-intellectualism in American Life by Richard Hofstadter, nothing from this unchanging group shocks me.
We have States that have designed social services to fail. In Florida, they literally had to work against their own Unemployment system to get it to work.
Texas did a partial closure for less then 30 days and declared a victory on May 1st (?pretty sure?) The President publicly undermined public health measures, leading directly to the stupidest movement in modern politics and life. Anti-maskers.
A rally in a Trump state killed the only black GOP presidential candidate of note in a generation , and they don't give a shit.
It is really, really sad. I really wish we could just be good neighbors and beat this shit. Sorry I don't have anything smart or not obvious to say. Just a real bummer to be part of the largest failure in modern medical history. Meanwhile Vietnam and Korea's citizens .... get to be ... not dead.
All good, it takes a special type of arrogance and stupidity to believe that your corner of the internet is honest people who know the real truth and not the far far far more likely people making shit up and you and your people are just dumb enough to buy the obvious garbage because you sad enough to need to feel special and important in this way. Sometimes they need to be told even if it is simply for cathartic reasons.
The only thing I'll say is that you seem to be operating under a conception of the virus is that it's like... a bunch of cats that are running around and your job is to corral the cats.This is opposed to the conception that it is more like a yearly wildfire that blazes through and runs its course. It sounded to me like the logic of "flatten the curve" was more like the second version, that we can't really control it but we can prevent our hospitals from overloading. And in that respect, we were pretty successful.
I couldn't quite follow the methodology, but it seemed like your rating was based on how the states are doing right now, not how did they do since March. That seems pretty unfair because different states got hit at different times. Texas didn't well and truly get an outbreak until mid-July, and the numbers are rapidly declining as we speak. Again, the virus runs its course.
On another note, I'm from that area that the article talks about, and it's basically the Mos Eisley Cantina of Texas. I would complain about corruption if the incompetence wasn't so overwhelming. Back in March, when the Covid cases were in the dozens, the tinpot dictators creamed themselves taking as much power as they could, enacting such heroic efforts as ripping up concrete park tables. It's also probably one of the worst places for obesity and diabetes in the country if not the world. I also didn't hear anything about restricting border traffic, which was having its own outbreak at the same time.
On September 23 2020 15:36 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Many states have passed New York in cases per capita, but New York is still number 2 in deaths per capita (with fellow blue states New Jersey being 1st and Massachusetts being 3rd), so you're just wrong there.
Legit /endthread but people seem to have moved on from actual deaths to cases.Even though with the massive uptick in cases and still far fewer deaths (partly due to democrat governers no longer sending COVID positive old folks back to nursing homes, partly due to more testing and possible mutation of virus into weaker form) the death rate per x cases for COVID continues to decline.
Although ill say if Covid-19 had killed 200 million Americans like Joe Biden seems to think it has maybe I wouldn't see this thread as blatant fearmongering...
On September 24 2020 15:11 Jerubaal wrote: The only thing I'll say is that you seem to be operating under a conception of the virus is that it's like... a bunch of cats that are running around and your job is to corral the cats.This is opposed to the conception that it is more like a yearly wildfire that blazes through and runs its course. It sounded to me like the logic of "flatten the curve" was more like the second version, that we can't really control it but we can prevent our hospitals from overloading. And in that respect, we were pretty successful.
I couldn't quite follow the methodology, but it seemed like your rating was based on how the states are doing right now, not how did they do since March. That seems pretty unfair because different states got hit at different times. Texas didn't well and truly get an outbreak until mid-July, and the numbers are rapidly declining as we speak. Again, the virus runs its course.
On another note, I'm from that area that the article talks about, and it's basically the Mos Eisley Cantina of Texas. I would complain about corruption if the incompetence wasn't so overwhelming. Back in March, when the Covid cases were in the dozens, the tinpot dictators creamed themselves taking as much power as they could, enacting such heroic efforts as ripping up concrete park tables. It's also probably one of the worst places for obesity and diabetes in the country if not the world. I also didn't hear anything about restricting border traffic, which was having its own outbreak at the same time.
I am under the conception that because of the long term damage that the virus to people of all ages having as few people get it as possible is the best outcome. That being said I'm not a "lockdowner" (not even sure what that is to be honest) and my kid goes to school right now, albeit with social distancing and mask protocols. In my city and county we currently have 7 active cases, 1 hospitalization. Every business is open, my kid goes to hockey. The only limits are on sizes of gatherings and there is a mask rule in the biggest city I'm near, but not in my town. Our community spread is less than 1 per 100,000 and has been fluctuating under 5, minus little pockets (when a community has 20000 people and 5 people get it the per 100000 looks scary) for months. This is the possible and Texas is in the 10-24 per 100,000 currently (on the high side overall but it is community dependent,
I looked into the different peaks and curves and Texas along with all the other places on the orange and red scale that have hit later, have also kept them much much longer than the ones who are performing well. The real advantage they do have is in deaths where care has improved so much that people are dying at lower rates. Sadly as far as long term damage goes we have been only slightly better at mitigating it.
I can't find any doctor or medical source that says the "virus has run its course" this seems like a very loaded politized message, if you can point me in that direction it would be great. When I look at the numbers that Texas is producing they are telling me the opposite to what you are. It was getting better but now it is again getting much worse. If this virus operated like a fire as you suggest a way higher % of people over all would have had it so that there would not be new people to get it (no more trees to burn), this has simply not happened.
Average new cases per day in Texas Three weeks ago 4,458 two weeks ago 3,664 1 week ago 4,187 Currently 6,587
It is heading in the wrong direction and likely because the politicized message you and many others are receiving is simply not accurate. When people hear it is over or past they behave in ways that make things worse and the really bad part is how much harder it is to bring them down rather than up. None of the data suggests "the virus has run its course", who is telling you this? Can you quote it so I can look into it?
I think it is very challenging to be a American in this time because EVERYTHING is becoming a political issue and "facts" are being used that are not by definition facts. Up here in Canada our score card is very different. The conservative governments have not ignored medical advice or facts. We have two premiers who are often compared to Trump, both provinces have have preformed as well as the ones run by other governments. Federally the leader of the opposition has argued about many things as normally happens, but not on medical advice, all 4 major parties have listened to the top doctors and made rules based on that. Interestingly enough our most Trump like politician, Doug Ford who runs our biggest most populous province and main campaign promise was "buck a beer" is currently suggesting he may need to do targeted lock downs if people do not start behaving better and reducing the spread.
I do think it is way more challenging in the US than Canada for these reasons, there is a expectation that especially on important matters such as health or in Crisis that our politicians put their egos away and do what is best. Well I think one side has done better, I think that is only because the other side picked wrong. Right now in the states what Blue and Red think about any issue seems to be most determined by what the other one thinks and we think the opposite.
It is hard to find unpoliticized info on the US, which is scary in so many ways. News should be facts presented and if there are two sides they should be both covered. You guys are not getting that as a people and it is leading to incredible division and some really objectively bad decisions and outcomes.
This is a pretty powerful story and I'm going to link multiple sources as one is CNN and I know that republicans treat it as Dems treat fox. But the person I'll be quoting is a CEO from a hospital in Kentucky. It does not say his political affiliation, as it shouldn't, but I think you would agree that if you were betting a CEO in Kentucky is far more likely to vote Republican.
"Our hospital is at capacity. We are working to open a third nursing unit to care for COVID patients," wrote Kristie Whitlatch, president and CEO of King's Daughters Medical Center in Ashland, Kentucky. "Multiple nursing units dedicated to one virus are unprecedented in our 120-year history."
"Now, I am asking you to trust me as I ask for your cooperation as COVID is intensely surging in our communities," she wrote. "No longer can we say it is primarily impacting those with underlying health conditions or nursing home residents. It is attacking babies, children and healthy, active men and women who have no idea how they were exposed. We are also seeing difficult recoveries, many taking months to fully recover and some who have yet to fully recover and may see the impact for the rest of their lives."
Many of these patients are very ill and many of our physicians, nurses and support team have been struck by the virus,” she wrote. “I understand people have differing opinions, but we know for a fact it is dangerous and deadly because we live it every day.”
“Our infectious disease specialists and other medical professionals are very concerned at how quickly and widely COVID-19 is spreading locally,” Whitlatch wrote in a Facebook post Friday. “Not in some big city but our hometowns.”
Don't believe what the Republicans say, Don't believe what the Democrat's say, Believe what the doctors say. Unlike the previous to groups they actually have your communities best interest at heart.
On September 23 2020 15:36 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Many states have passed New York in cases per capita, but New York is still number 2 in deaths per capita (with fellow blue states New Jersey being 1st and Massachusetts being 3rd), so you're just wrong there.
Legit /endthread but people seem to have moved on from actual deaths to cases.Even though with the massive uptick in cases and still far fewer deaths (partly due to democrat governers no longer sending COVID positive old folks back to nursing homes, partly due to more testing and possible mutation of virus into weaker form) the death rate per x cases for COVID continues to decline.
Although ill say if Covid-19 had killed 200 million Americans like Joe Biden seems to think it has maybe I wouldn't see this thread as blatant fearmongering...
That was an embarrassing misspeak! A stark difference between the two is not that one never misspeaks and one does, (I mean Trump does way more on the daily but I digress) it is how their supporters react and how they react after. When Biden said this his supporters went, "oh no, thats wrong" and his campaign put out a press release saying it was wrong and correcting it.
When Trump does it, he doubles down on the stupid, and for some inexplicable reason his supporters cheer him for it and believe it. Why so many people trust a unintelligent man who lies so often and cheer him for is makes no sense to me.
Obviously many methodological problems with that comparison (to say the least), but very interesting results nonetheless. Its strange that I haven't seen that comparison done before given how confrontational everything is in american politics right now.
On September 25 2020 02:41 Elroi wrote: Obviously many methodological problems with that comparison (to say the least), but very interesting results nonetheless. Its strange that I haven't seen that comparison done before given how confrontational everything is in american politics right now.
Thank you. And I agree it is far from perfect, I was just shocked how dramatic the difference was and also that my googling couldn't find it.
On September 25 2020 00:10 AttackZerg wrote: To Nettles
What a horse shit mentality.
"200k means nothing"
Fear mongering?
You cowards are so scared you invented a fake reality to live in were Corona isn't a big deal.
94% had pre existing conditions, only 6% died due to corona (CDC).40% of deaths were in nursing homes.
The real catastrophe will be the loss of businesses, homes, the mental health epidemic caused by lockdowns and the financial situation.All lead to a spike in suicide.Thats the true disaster here and I've been saying that since day one.
I really wish the media had not made COVID a political matter. The original estimated death toll for the US was in the millions, and we will not even be close to that by the time the vaccines are made available to the public. We should be happy that it never got that bad.
Both sides (democrats and republicans) are listening to science, just different sides since doctors can't even agree on what the correct course of action should be. We still know very little about the virus. Just do what you think is right to protect yourselves. Don't rely on the government to do it for you.
There are members of both parties listening to science. Trump is not.
There was a estimated death toll in the millions if nothing was done. Which was argued everywhere including on this site where random maximums were stated like fact.
The US is not doing a good job compared other countries of similar wealth albeit lesser wealth.
The media in the states is at fault but Trump politized this thing and continues to. The US made a huge mistake when they allowed partisan news and they continue to pay a huge price for it.
On September 25 2020 09:50 JimmiC wrote: There are members of both parties listening to science. Trump is not.
There was a estimated death toll in the millions if nothing was done. Which was argued everywhere including on this site where random maximums were stated like fact.
The US is not doing a good job compared other countries of similar wealth albeit lesser wealth.
The media in the states is at fault but Trump politized this thing and continues to. The US made a huge mistake when they allowed partisan news and they continue to pay a huge price for it.
Fact is there are millions more people that have had COVID in USA but were never tested, asymptomatic, heck due to the system over there they may have known they were ill but kept working because they couldn't afford the time off.Truth is this illness is nowhere near as deadly as people thought it was back in Jan-Feb when those videos of China welding apartment doors shut were floating around the web.
Democrats are wanting to make it seem worse than it is however due to the election.Biden regularly calling it a day at 9AM 6 weeks from the election after hiding in his basement for the past 6 months.Social distancing and crowd restriction rules are helping hide the fact that Biden has zero crowds, zero enthusiasm and can coast through on virtual/online appearances where he can read scripts off a teleprompter.The virus also makes it easier to pass large scale mass mail in ballot laws that make voter fraud far easier.
On September 25 2020 09:50 JimmiC wrote: There are members of both parties listening to science. Trump is not.
There was a estimated death toll in the millions if nothing was done. Which was argued everywhere including on this site where random maximums were stated like fact.
The US is not doing a good job compared other countries of similar wealth albeit lesser wealth.
The media in the states is at fault but Trump politized this thing and continues to. The US made a huge mistake when they allowed partisan news and they continue to pay a huge price for it.
Fact is there are millions more people that have had COVID in USA but were never tested, asymptomatic, heck due to the system over there they may have known they were ill but kept working because they couldn't afford the time off.Truth is this illness is nowhere near as deadly as people thought it was back in Jan-Feb when those videos of China welding apartment doors shut were floating around the web.
Democrats are wanting to make it seem worse than it is however due to the election.Biden regularly calling it a day at 9AM 6 weeks from the election after hiding in his basement for the past 6 months.Social distancing and crowd restriction rules are helping hide the fact that Biden has zero crowds, zero enthusiasm and can coast through on virtual/online appearances where he can read scripts off a teleprompter.The virus also makes it easier to pass large scale mass mail in ballot laws that make voter fraud far easier.
Couple of things, we have not hit flu season and are already above the low estimates. Virus is not as deadly, but more than that we have become much better at treating it. Life expectcy is expected to drop because of it.
Covid response and continued double talk about it are of course going to hurt Trump. Well many Trumpers like to point to the death of.old people as a reason the virus is not that bad, are they unaware that Trumps voters tend to be old? They are more likely to have had a bad experience or know someone who has died, not to mention hearing them dying is ok is not a great motivator.
Of course Biden hasow crowds, this is what doctors and his supporters want, lol.
None of that about mail in ballots is true, feel free to try to find a source.
The debates are coming up, I think like every time Biden has spoke he will do quite well.
Is it at all concerning to you that your whole world view is stuff you or other people just made up? I don't know what you do for a living, or if it required schooling. But if it did, did you know more about that subject after? How about how ever long you have worked, do you know more about it now than you did before you started? I would suggest that being a doctor is like this, even more so given the complexity, and even more so for epitedemiologists. I would also suggest they are not all democrats, if anything their socioeconomic situation suggests more are likely Republicans. And yet overwhelmingly they disagree with your entire view on the pandemic and its handling.
At some point you would think that logic would win and it is not that Trump is honest and the whole world is democrats making things up. It is that he makes shit up on the fly, is not bright and you are backing and believing a loser. He has only been successful at things in his life, having a.really rich daddy, not paying taxes on daddys money and reality TV. His Casinos? His university? His charity? The USFL? His steaks? His mattresses? His marriages? So on and so forth. He is good and creating drama, he is horrible at being honest and he simply is a low intelligence but outwardly arrogant person who many successful.have believed. I'm sorry you are one of them. I'm sorry you fell for that there was caravans of dangerous people coming from the south that only a wall could protect you from. In case you have not been paying attention they never came and you have no wall.
You got grifted, it happens, you have doubled down changed your story and made up "facts" to protect it. That is when it gets dangerous. Trump gives loyalty to no one, he drives his bus over all those great people as soon as it is better for him, why do you give him yours? He has done nothing to earn it.
On September 24 2020 15:11 Jerubaal wrote: The only thing I'll say is that you seem to be operating under a conception of the virus is that it's like... a bunch of cats that are running around and your job is to corral the cats.This is opposed to the conception that it is more like a yearly wildfire that blazes through and runs its course. It sounded to me like the logic of "flatten the curve" was more like the second version, that we can't really control it but we can prevent our hospitals from overloading. And in that respect, we were pretty successful.
I couldn't quite follow the methodology, but it seemed like your rating was based on how the states are doing right now, not how did they do since March. That seems pretty unfair because different states got hit at different times. Texas didn't well and truly get an outbreak until mid-July, and the numbers are rapidly declining as we speak. Again, the virus runs its course.
On another note, I'm from that area that the article talks about, and it's basically the Mos Eisley Cantina of Texas. I would complain about corruption if the incompetence wasn't so overwhelming. Back in March, when the Covid cases were in the dozens, the tinpot dictators creamed themselves taking as much power as they could, enacting such heroic efforts as ripping up concrete park tables. It's also probably one of the worst places for obesity and diabetes in the country if not the world. I also didn't hear anything about restricting border traffic, which was having its own outbreak at the same time.
I am under the conception that because of the long term damage that the virus to people of all ages having as few people get it as possible is the best outcome. That being said I'm not a "lockdowner" (not even sure what that is to be honest) and my kid goes to school right now, albeit with social distancing and mask protocols. In my city and county we currently have 7 active cases, 1 hospitalization. Every business is open, my kid goes to hockey. The only limits are on sizes of gatherings and there is a mask rule in the biggest city I'm near, but not in my town. Our community spread is less than 1 per 100,000 and has been fluctuating under 5, minus little pockets (when a community has 20000 people and 5 people get it the per 100000 looks scary) for months. This is the possible and Texas is in the 10-24 per 100,000 currently (on the high side overall but it is community dependent,
I looked into the different peaks and curves and Texas along with all the other places on the orange and red scale that have hit later, have also kept them much much longer than the ones who are performing well. The real advantage they do have is in deaths where care has improved so much that people are dying at lower rates. Sadly as far as long term damage goes we have been only slightly better at mitigating it.
I can't find any doctor or medical source that says the "virus has run its course" this seems like a very loaded politized message, if you can point me in that direction it would be great. When I look at the numbers that Texas is producing they are telling me the opposite to what you are. It was getting better but now it is again getting much worse. If this virus operated like a fire as you suggest a way higher % of people over all would have had it so that there would not be new people to get it (no more trees to burn), this has simply not happened.
Average new cases per day in Texas Three weeks ago 4,458 two weeks ago 3,664 1 week ago 4,187 Currently 6,587
It is heading in the wrong direction and likely because the politicized message you and many others are receiving is simply not accurate. When people hear it is over or past they behave in ways that make things worse and the really bad part is how much harder it is to bring them down rather than up. None of the data suggests "the virus has run its course", who is telling you this? Can you quote it so I can look into it?
I think it is very challenging to be a American in this time because EVERYTHING is becoming a political issue and "facts" are being used that are not by definition facts. Up here in Canada our score card is very different. The conservative governments have not ignored medical advice or facts. We have two premiers who are often compared to Trump, both provinces have have preformed as well as the ones run by other governments. Federally the leader of the opposition has argued about many things as normally happens, but not on medical advice, all 4 major parties have listened to the top doctors and made rules based on that. Interestingly enough our most Trump like politician, Doug Ford who runs our biggest most populous province and main campaign promise was "buck a beer" is currently suggesting he may need to do targeted lock downs if people do not start behaving better and reducing the spread.
I do think it is way more challenging in the US than Canada for these reasons, there is a expectation that especially on important matters such as health or in Crisis that our politicians put their egos away and do what is best. Well I think one side has done better, I think that is only because the other side picked wrong. Right now in the states what Blue and Red think about any issue seems to be most determined by what the other one thinks and we think the opposite.
It is hard to find unpoliticized info on the US, which is scary in so many ways. News should be facts presented and if there are two sides they should be both covered. You guys are not getting that as a people and it is leading to incredible division and some really objectively bad decisions and outcomes.
This is a pretty powerful story and I'm going to link multiple sources as one is CNN and I know that republicans treat it as Dems treat fox. But the person I'll be quoting is a CEO from a hospital in Kentucky. It does not say his political affiliation, as it shouldn't, but I think you would agree that if you were betting a CEO in Kentucky is far more likely to vote Republican.
"Our hospital is at capacity. We are working to open a third nursing unit to care for COVID patients," wrote Kristie Whitlatch, president and CEO of King's Daughters Medical Center in Ashland, Kentucky. "Multiple nursing units dedicated to one virus are unprecedented in our 120-year history."
"Now, I am asking you to trust me as I ask for your cooperation as COVID is intensely surging in our communities," she wrote. "No longer can we say it is primarily impacting those with underlying health conditions or nursing home residents. It is attacking babies, children and healthy, active men and women who have no idea how they were exposed. We are also seeing difficult recoveries, many taking months to fully recover and some who have yet to fully recover and may see the impact for the rest of their lives."
Many of these patients are very ill and many of our physicians, nurses and support team have been struck by the virus,” she wrote. “I understand people have differing opinions, but we know for a fact it is dangerous and deadly because we live it every day.”
“Our infectious disease specialists and other medical professionals are very concerned at how quickly and widely COVID-19 is spreading locally,” Whitlatch wrote in a Facebook post Friday. “Not in some big city but our hometowns.”
Don't believe what the Republicans say, Don't believe what the Democrat's say, Believe what the doctors say. Unlike the previous to groups they actually have your communities best interest at heart.
I think an epedimiologist would say (idgaf about what most line physicians say) that an illness moves through a community until it exhausts the connections needed to spread. This could be that means of transmission are denied or because the pool of easy targets diminishes. This brings us to the question that really defines this discussion: How do you think this is going to end? The idea that we are going to lockdown Covid-19 out of existence seems absurd to me. NYC still has ~200 new cases a day. CA has been on a slow burn of about 3k for a while. And, lest you think it's just us dum dum Americans, Germany is still at 2k new cases a day.
The first part of your argument is that "Trump states" handled this poorly and, in the face of the sheer devastation that the northeast faced, that assertion relies on how they are doing right at this moment. Even that argument seems to be reliant on the late-blooming increases in the western states. coronavirus.jhu.edu Considering the extreme diversity in conditions, comparisons seems foolish. This is a pretty awesome state by state graph btw. Texas has been percolating a bit in the low thousands, but it's definitely on a downward trend. There may be a bit of confusion because apparently there was some misreported backlog that was released in the last few days. So if you see an enormous spike, that's why.
The second half of your argument is dem dere Trumpers think masks are a commie science devil plot. I assure you that, at least in Texas, we've been wearing masks and public spaces have been restricted since March. Wouldn't you agree that that's at least 90% of the effectiveness?
I think my biggest issue is that there's absolutely no limit on the hyperbole. You can go out and demand that we go into total lockdown until we make a vaccine for the cold. and people nod their heads sagely at what a conscientious person you are. Suggest that we not trample all over people's rights and destroy their livelihoods based on supposition, and you get accused of wanting to kill grandma.
I would hope you see there is a material difference between 2k and 44k. (and if Germany had the US population it would be 8k to 44k, they are also way more dense which if given equal performance would cause them to still have higher numbers not 6x better performance)
It is ironic to me that you complain about hyperbole while stating that I demand you go into total lockdown. Feel free to find me suggesting that anywhere. Eliminating it completely anywhere but islands is probably impossible and does not seem to be the goal of many/any well functioning governments. Just to keep as few people infected as possible to avoid the long term consequences and for those pragmatists costs. The longer the delays the closer we are to a vaccine, but even if that does not come or until then treatment is getting better and better every day. Delaying people from getting it is 100% the right choice. Letting it run through the population unchecked, which is what many Trumpers are suggesting, would lead to a US wide newyork times 1000. There was still a fairly low % of newyorkers that got infected.
You are also still missing my point or what I believe the numbers show. Texas might still be saying and doing the right thing from a state government level. But if the people are not following those rules and guidelines they do not matter a whole lot. I have not analyzed it but from a cursory look states with Republican led states that voted Hilary are not doing worse than Dem led states that voted hilary.
Trump is a special case and at some point I'm hoping republicans will see the damage he is doing to the "brand" and the more of you that stand up for his stupidity the more it does so. He is arguing with medical recommendations and not following them, on the daily. People who inexplicably follow his words over people who actually know, despite no reason for him having credibility, continue to spread the virus.
This is not the republicans are handling this worse (though is somewhat true because for obvious reasons way more of them are Trumpers), it is that Trumpers are handling this WAY way worse.
It is so strange to me that people in the US think that people outside of the US are Dems and biased. WTF? We have no team affiliation or fandom. There is just one leader saying stupid stuff on the daily about just about every topic, and changing his facts more often then most of change our clothes and another guy (who also is not that impressive for the record) who says mostly sensible things and things inline with what doctors and experts are saying, globally.
Biden looks so much better to foreigners in such higher numbers not because we are more biased, but because we are way less biased.
The "C" in JimmiC stands for Covid. Never seen someone so obsessed with trying to prove the biggest political cow-pie act ever, correct. I won't reply to any rebuttals..
I didn't say Germany didn't fare better than the U.S.. I said that they hadn't found a magic bullet either. (Also, Apple data showed that we restricted movement as much as Germany.) And, for argument's sake, I could speculate that they had less penetration than the U.S., could more easily stop traffic, and, perhaps most importantly, have a generally less fat population.
You seem to agree with me that lockdowns are not going to eliminate this. I also think that we've done most of what we can to eliminate it, even though I'm sure you think we should have done more? maybe we're stupid? maybe we should have been more draconian? I would point to the reasons I listed above as greater factors. It seems like you have had most of your modest demands met. Why the outrage then? Why this grasping at straws and spurious assumptions? It seems like you're upset because you don't like Trump's attitude? It really seems like you are arguing backwards from your desired conclusion.
On September 26 2020 04:26 Jerubaal wrote: I didn't say Germany didn't fare better than the U.S.. I said that they hadn't found a magic bullet either. (Also, Apple data showed that we restricted movement as much as Germany.) And, for argument's sake, I could speculate that they had less penetration than the U.S., could more easily stop traffic, and, perhaps most importantly, have a generally less fat population.
You seem to agree with me that lockdowns are not going to eliminate this. I also think that we've done most of what we can to eliminate it, even though I'm sure you think we should have done more? maybe we're stupid? maybe we should have been more draconian? I would point to the reasons I listed above as greater factors. It seems like you have had most of your modest demands met. Why the outrage then? Why this grasping at straws and spurious assumptions? It seems like you're upset because you don't like Trump's attitude? It really seems like you are arguing backwards from your desired conclusion.
The purpose of the lockdowns was to bring it to a low enough level to be able to do enough testing and contact tracing to mitigate spread and keep the R values low. I'm not sure every state made the choice of when to lock down or when to reopen with this in mind, but that is not what I'm getting at.
What I am getting at is when a person of great power and influence is countering your own doctors advice and plan it is going to go worse in places where he has more influence. This seems to be the case by the numbers.
What Trump needs to do is stop trying to own the libs and get "cool" sound bites he can get cheered for and be a leader and we need to follow these guidelines to save lives and protect the economy. It was stupid politizing to pretend that the two are not connected, pretending they are opposed and framing it as such has created nothing but problems.
On September 26 2020 04:09 rel wrote: The "C" in JimmiC stands for Covid. Never seen someone so obsessed with trying to prove the biggest political cow-pie act ever, correct. I won't reply to any rebuttals..
Even for a shit post this is spectacularly shitty. Congrats?
On September 25 2020 22:52 JimmiC wrote: Covid response and continued double talk about it are of course going to hurt Trump. Well many Trumpers like to point to the death of.old people as a reason the virus is not that bad, are they unaware that Trumps voters tend to be old? They are more likely to have had a bad experience or know someone who has died, not to mention hearing them dying is ok is not a great motivator.
Yup, you're right.in Sweden the highest rate for deaths was between 80 - 90. Average life expectancy in Sweden is 83. Same story everywhere else.
Of course Biden hasow crowds, this is what doctors and his supporters want, lol.
He could still do boat parades or car parades.Trump had 16,000-20,000 car parade in Ohio a week ago, Biden car parade had 3 people.How many people watch Biden livestreams? C'mon man!
None of that about mail in ballots is true, feel free to try to find a source.
From one of your top politicans, no less.He was shitting his pants over this issue back in 2004.
The debates are coming up, I think like every time Biden has spoke he will do quite well.
Pelosi just told him on Friday not to do any debates with Trump.This is the second time she's called for him to cancel them.Biden has called a lid on his campaigning before noon 9+ times so far this month.We're 6 weeks from the election.You think this is normal?
Is it at all concerning to you that your whole world view is stuff you or other people just made up?
Yet 10 days before Trumps inauguration FBI agents investigating Trumps Russia links (lol) took out liability insurance.This all came out in the past week.Seems like your world is about to come crashing down.I've posted the actual video of Biden threatening the Ukrainian government (Fire the prosecutor or we won't pay you $1,000,000,000 dollars) several times on the politics thread over the years, maybe you missed it, if you did this is what actual collusion looks like :
On September 25 2020 22:52 JimmiC wrote: Covid response and continued double talk about it are of course going to hurt Trump. Well many Trumpers like to point to the death of.old people as a reason the virus is not that bad, are they unaware that Trumps voters tend to be old? They are more likely to have had a bad experience or know someone who has died, not to mention hearing them dying is ok is not a great motivator.
Yup, you're right.in Sweden the highest rate for deaths was between 80 - 90. Average life expectancy in Sweden is 83. Same story everywhere else.
Of course Biden hasow crowds, this is what doctors and his supporters want, lol.
He could still do boat parades or car parades.Trump had 16,000-20,000 car parade in Ohio a week ago, Biden car parade had 3 people.How many people watch Biden livestreams? C'mon man!
The debates are coming up, I think like every time Biden has spoke he will do quite well.
Pelosi just told him on Friday not to do any debates with Trump.This is the second time she's called for him to cancel them.Biden has called a lid on his campaigning before noon 9+ times so far this month.We're 6 weeks from the election.You think this is normal?
Is it at all concerning to you that your whole world view is stuff you or other people just made up?
Yet 10 days before Trumps inauguration FBI agents investigating Trumps Russia links (lol) took out liability insurance.This all came out in the past week.Seems like your world is about to come crashing down.I've posted the actual video of Biden threatening the Ukrainian government (Fire the prosecutor or we won't pay you $1,000,000,000 dollars) several times on the politics thread over the years, maybe you missed it, if you did this is what actual collusion looks like : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY
What is the average age of someone who dies from cancer? If we could stop it through masks and social distancing for a year until a vaccine came out you would think this was a bad idea?
Trump drew a much smaller crowd to his inauguration than Obama, I've found it is votes that matter not car parade sides.
Did you watch your video? It is not even about mail in ballots. It is about paper ballots compared to their machines and then the person brings out a study that shows hes wrong.
Also hes from newyork not Canada, let alone my political party LOL
Pelosi taking a shot about Trumps honesty and mentioning the a possible impeachment before a big debate.... OMG WHAT?!?!?!? lol
The last time you guys really pushed the Biden senile story Biden gave a speech and went way up because he blew the very low expectations out of the water. Maybe it will work out better this time, I doubt it.
On September 25 2020 00:10 AttackZerg wrote: To Nettles
What a horse shit mentality.
"200k means nothing"
Fear mongering?
You cowards are so scared you invented a fake reality to live in were Corona isn't a big deal.
94% had pre existing conditions, only 6% died due to corona (CDC).40% of deaths were in nursing homes.
The real catastrophe will be the loss of businesses, homes, the mental health epidemic caused by lockdowns and the financial situation.All lead to a spike in suicide.Thats the true disaster here and I've been saying that since day one.
How could the US excess mortality from COVID-19 be roughly 250,000 if only 6% of 200000 (12000) died from COVID-19?. Also, the 6% you are talking about is the percentage of those who died without co-morbidities (basically healthy people). Unfortunately, almost half the US population has common co-morbidities like heart disease, COPD, asthma, cancer, hypertension, diabetes and etc that worsen COVID-19 outcomes so there is hardly any solace to be found from your figures anyway.
On September 26 2020 10:06 JimmiC wrote: What is the average age of someone who dies from cancer? If we could stop it through masks and social distancing for a year until a vaccine came out you would think this was a bad idea?
Perhaps for those 65+, the death rate under that is negligible. There will be far higher rates of suicide, mental health issues, bankruptcies for those under 65 than before though due to the lockdowns and economic issues caused by them.
Trump drew a much smaller crowd to his inauguration than Obama, I've found it is votes that matter not car parade sides.
Pennsylvania The Democrats have an approximate 783,000 advantage in voter registration in the state. However, the margin is down from a 936,000 lead in 2016, when Trump carried the commonwealth.
The GOP’s gain in North Carolina is even larger than in Pennsylvania. In 2016, the Democrats held about a 646,000 registered-voter lead, according to statistics provided to The Western Journal by the Republican National Committee. That lead has dropped 216,000 to a 430,000-voter lead.
In Florida in 2016, Trump won by a little over a percentage point despite the Democrats having a 335,000-voter-registration lead at the time, the RNC determined.
That advantage has fallen to approximately 250,000.
Did you watch your video? It is not even about mail in ballots. It is about paper ballots compared to their machines and then the person brings out a study that shows hes wrong.
Pelosi taking a shot about Trumps honesty and mentioning the a possible impeachment before a big debate.... OMG WHAT?!?!?!? lol
The last time you guys really pushed the Biden senile story Biden gave a speech and went way up because he blew the very low expectations out of the water. Maybe it will work out better this time, I doubt it.
Debate will be 'interesting' for sure...
How could the US excess mortality from COVID-19 be roughly 250,000 if only 6% of 200000 (12000) died from COVID-19?. Also, the 6% you are talking about is the percentage of those who died without co-morbidities (basically healthy people). Unfortunately, almost half the US population has common co-morbidities like heart disease, COPD, asthma, cancer, hypertension, diabetes and etc that worsen COVID-19 outcomes so there is hardly any solace to be found from your figures anyway.
40% of US deaths were people in nursing homes and of those half were from 5 democratic states where their governors sent COVID patients back into those nursing homes. Figure so far is on the low end of estimates made back in March but would be lower if not for bad decisions made at state level.
On September 26 2020 10:06 JimmiC wrote: What is the average age of someone who dies from cancer? If we could stop it through masks and social distancing for a year until a vaccine came out you would think this was a bad idea?
Perhaps for those 65+, the death rate under that is negligible. There will be far higher rates of suicide, mental health issues, bankruptcies for those under 65 than before though due to the lockdowns and economic issues caused by them.
Pennsylvania The Democrats have an approximate 783,000 advantage in voter registration in the state. However, the margin is down from a 936,000 lead in 2016, when Trump carried the commonwealth.
The GOP’s gain in North Carolina is even larger than in Pennsylvania. In 2016, the Democrats held about a 646,000 registered-voter lead, according to statistics provided to The Western Journal by the Republican National Committee. That lead has dropped 216,000 to a 430,000-voter lead.
In Florida in 2016, Trump won by a little over a percentage point despite the Democrats having a 335,000-voter-registration lead at the time, the RNC determined.
That advantage has fallen to approximately 250,000.
Did you watch your video? It is not even about mail in ballots. It is about paper ballots compared to their machines and then the person brings out a study that shows hes wrong.
Pelosi taking a shot about Trumps honesty and mentioning the a possible impeachment before a big debate.... OMG WHAT?!?!?!? lol
The last time you guys really pushed the Biden senile story Biden gave a speech and went way up because he blew the very low expectations out of the water. Maybe it will work out better this time, I doubt it.
How could the US excess mortality from COVID-19 be roughly 250,000 if only 6% of 200000 (12000) died from COVID-19?. Also, the 6% you are talking about is the percentage of those who died without co-morbidities (basically healthy people). Unfortunately, almost half the US population has common co-morbidities like heart disease, COPD, asthma, cancer, hypertension, diabetes and etc that worsen COVID-19 outcomes so there is hardly any solace to be found from your figures anyway.
40% of US deaths were people in nursing homes and of those half were from 5 democratic states where their governors sent COVID patients back into those nursing homes. Figure so far is on the low end of estimates made back in March but would be lower if not for bad decisions made at state level.
You do that discarded and voter fraud are not at all the same thing correct? It is also funny that you talk about diversion since I'm responding to your points unrelated to my post.
It is also funny to me that you seem to think Trump is right that it's a flu to not scared of, but also Trump is wrong that it is at least 5x deadlier.
You also seem to be ignoring that cases who don't die matter because of life.long consequences last number I heard was 8x higher than deaths so 1.6 million and according to many including the ceo quoted above not good.
With this new found respect for mental health and its dangerous im sure we will see some support for those who need it from this or all the mixed messages.
In semi related news how are you dealing with being overrun from dangerous caravans from the south? I notice no wall but don't hear about this emergency need any more? I'm sure whatever Trump is talking about today is also the truth like it has been and it is smart to continue to listen to him.
I guess when you have no back up for "facts" you drop to that level. Also some strange choices of people. For example Bloomberg is no friend to most dems and certainly not the left. He is a piece of shit who is beholden to China. Basically he is even less a Dem then Trump was a Rep. Thank God even with his way way more money spent he never won. Trump vs Bloomberg might have been some apocalypticly bad shit, I don't even know who would have a bigger stack of secrets hidden within NDAs 😅
Anyone aware of the timeline of events? Trump having to fence of a ravenous impeachment.. orchestrated by his opposition, in transparently ravenous desperation.
Nancy pelosi urging people to visit China town in spiteful retort to his travel restriction ban. And other counter-productive discord created on purpose.
Ps. Not that China town be inherently risky, it was just the notion. Also did you see her falter and restart an interview midway through this week? What the hell
Also.. Be advised of the misinformation campaign that's attempting to render president Trump untrustworthy, saying he lied about the virus.
Can you imagine what would've happened if in a single stroke he'd announced there's an airborne virus of unknown affinity.. that's contagious and possibly fatal.
The people.. all types, Survivalists, looters, religious folk would've gone crazy..
To the host of this post. I admire your procedure and effort taken..
But until I see an itemized list of those dead victims. What age, present ailments, lifestyle.. above all a damning certainty the death was this virus.. I reckon speculation and analysis be hopeless.
And finally.. to anyone here present clinging to the flimsy narrative that Trump administration failed or messed up, It would be appearing in full onslaught and Kayleigh Mcenany would be recieving a barrage of harmful questions, impossible to withstand.
And yet.. she does. And the questions take the form of nothing more than unseasonably bothersome flies
Do you believe this fact fiction? Other countries were way, way ,way more honest and none of what you said happened. In fact they out preformed and still out preformed. There is little evidence that anything Trump did helped and loads of it that what he did caused great harm.
The fandom around a politician to rewrite recent history in his favor is such a strange concept to me. Most places hold their politicians accountable not cheer them for lying and failing lol.
President Trump is a profoundly excellent man. Make no mistake, he will go down in history as the greatest president of the USA for many centuries after.
He believes in liberty, in its proper burning right.. not the current brand of aggressive, false-humanitarian Liberalism enforced by these enlightened progressive folk.
Trump is inherently left wing.
I know something is up when I'm hearing from 3 different people - innately liberal in their personality - the measurable affects of His administration, via email online.. and I'm also hearing about their outrage of comedians like Trevor Noah, John Oliver.. who are instrumental in producing complete lies. Not even unequivocal lies..
ashamedly Trevor noah is from my country, south Africa.. and he's Speaking deceptively on behalf of things that don't concern him!
Oh my heavenly hat.. It's all documented. Go summon forth the White House press secretary briefings!
Infront of an official audience Kayleigh Mcenany.. and countless other YouTube profiles, displayed the footage. To you really think vested reporters would leave that confabulation unchallenged?
Must I find the link and post it? Or will the low resolution settings of the lense on your beer goggles hinder you from screening it!?
The impeachment was happening and overlapping with the incipient virus. And all based on a bogus lie
Or you can navigate to an archived transcript of the delivery and read it.
And the fact that pelosi urged people to visit China town in defiance of Trumps travel ban.. is heard so many times. There are articles revealing she deleted her China town Twitter post.
Unless your reply is trying to apply history alterations 1984 style.. The evidence is pretty voluminous! And damning!
On September 28 2020 01:19 JimmiC wrote: thanks for the laughs!
JimmiC I just want to thank you for being a breath of fresh air and having the patience and energy to engage with this thread through these three pages. I enjoyed reading your perspective and takes and it was nice to see rational points defended calmly and intelligently.
It has been troubling engaging with a lot of this subject matter for me simply due to a saturation of hostile discourse in my world, so thanks for being a reminder that not everywhere is crazy. It was nice reading a beacon of how conversations can be.
Rare kind words much appreciated. I was hoping some would find it interesting and maybe some would counter with different data. But in the Trump era it is make up your own, strawman the argument, move the goalposts and if the does not work turn on the insults.
I'm not sure why its popular to do so because the double talk just end up making people look like they don't understand or can't. But at some point insulting online became "badass" when really it is spoiled tantrum time. Also, not saying that about everyone but more then a few!
@AttackZerg thanks good link, shows a different analysis on the governors and also that just like in March when Trump was claiming it was over, it is still not!
These odd attempts at virtue signalling from the early days have been largely forgotten. Recall when democrats blasted Trump as racist for banning travel from China back on Jan 31st. Fact is Trump did that and then allowed states to choose their own response to the virus, because a harsh national response from Trump would have led to calls of dictator, fascist etc.
Also should note, the virtue signalling was also very prevalent in Europe during that time, in fact a couple of days after Trump banned people flying in from China the mayor of Florence, Italy, advised locals to 'hug a Chinese person'. It sounds odd in these days of social distancing and masks but true it was.
Lots of mistakes were made, what makes Trump extraordinary is not that he got everything wrong or right early. It is that now months and months later he is still getting so.much wrong. And more than that, he is actively disagreeing with and undermining his own medical experts. Based.on his gut!
If you are going to continue to argue against an argument I'm not making hit up the Covid thread or maybe make your own Blog about what a wonderful job he's doing and why. It seems to be a story you want to tell and since you don't believe in data you can just write from you gut. I think it will be wonderful! Good luck.
I wasn't making an argument in the prior post, i was replying to another commentator agreeing with his statements.
I've seen the data from the CDC, i continue to make the claim the 'cure' is worse than the virus itself.But we will have to see what happens in 2021 when the economic issues arising from the lockdowns and the total shutdown of sectors of the economy like tourism/entertainment really hit home.Really hoping suicides don't spike as much as feared.
CDC’s new IFR survivability estimates after contracting the virus are broken down by age as part of the agency’s “COVID-19 Pandemic Planning Scenarios” are as follows:
0-19 years old survivability rate is 99.997% 20-49 years old survivability rate is 99.98% 50-69 years old survivability rate is 99.5% 70 years old or older survivability rate is 94.6%
To put that in a different perspective the CDC’s new estimate for the death rate after contracting COVID-19 by age are:
0-19 years old death rate is .003% 20-49 years old death rate is .02% 50-69 years old death rate is .5%% 70 years old or older death rate is 5.4%
If only you had the ability to respond to the posts that point out the flaws in your logic instead of sort of agreeing with troll posts with other misinformation.
Multiple people have responded to your silly death rate posts.