• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:59
CET 17:59
KST 01:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies1ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !10Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Micro Lags When Playing SC2? When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server? How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
[BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1202 users

In Praise of the TI7 Meta

Blogs > tree.hugger
Post a Reply
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
August 06 2017 17:06 GMT
#1
Like the rest of you, I've been spending the past few days watching the group stages of TI7. It's been a really fun time, especially as a Liquid fan. But I've been watching much more than Liquid games. Dota 2 is really fun right now.

What makes any game fun to watch and follow? I'd argue the central factor is the competitive balance struck between skill and chance. A balanced game is one in which the players and teams with the most skill rise to the top, but one where there's enough uncertainty thrown in that there's room for surprises and upsets. In any given game, there is a favorite and an underdog, but there's enough suspense about the result that neutral viewers tune in anyway. In traditional sports, fans love dynasties, and they love watching dynasties fall. An ideal competitive scene gives you both.

But there are additional factors that are unique to esports, where the rules and nature of the game frequently change. These have bearing on the competitive balance, but are also independent of them. For instance, I'd suggest that the ideal Dota 2 game from a viewing perspective takes 30-40 minutes, similar to the viewing time of a standard episode of television or a half of soccer. I'd suggest that Dota 2 is best when there are a wide variety of strategies that can win; pushing strats, ganking strats, split pushing strats, lategame 4 protect 1 strats, and so on. I'd argue that average Dota2 game should be reasonably close for 75% of the time, and once a team takes a strong lead, it shouldn't belabor the point, unless the team at a deficit stages a comeback. It should be hard, but not impossible to do this.

I've watched every edition of The International, and two tournaments in particular strike me as being poor: TI4 and TI6. In both tournaments, the meta was out of whack. I remember TI4 being characterized by unstoppable pushing strategies, and snowballing leads. I remember TI6 as being a tournament of "rubber-banding" games, where no lead was safe to a high ground reversal, and "epic" comebacks became so commonplace that they stopped being interesting or impressive. While TI4's overall results were still pretty "fair," with the best teams making it to the finals, TI6's results were goofy, with two qualifier teams making the finals, and half of the invites missing out on the winners bracket. It's no surprise that TI7 features just one of the players who played in the TI6 finals, and that player is only in Seattle as a standin (and also is, for my money, the best of those ten players).

That's why this TI7 is so refreshing. The favorites have looked like the favorites, and five of six made the winners bracket. But there's still room for surprises, and the groupstages featured plenty of examples of top teams dropping games to underdogs. Moreover, we saw every type of game in the groupstage. There were massive stomps and prolonged defensive battles. We saw some comebacks, and one really extraordinary reversal that I saw (TNC vs LGD, game two). High ground is a challenge to break, but not impossible. Laning advantage is important, but not game-deciding.

What's best I think is that we've seen a lot of room for the personalities of different teams to emerge. Some teams play with sacrificial, team oriented #1 positions, and others play with dominant classical farming #1s. Some rely on dual cores with a powerful farming mid laner, while others use a mid laner in the classical tempo setting and playmaking role. There is tremendous flexibility in how teams lane and how supports position themselves to get an early advantage. Almost every hero has been picked, and many can be played in multiple positions. The current meta is, to my eyes, an almost perfect blend which allows individual player skill and team strategy to really shine, and it's made watching this TI an unexpected treat.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
TRAP[yoo]
Profile Joined December 2009
Hungary6026 Posts
August 06 2017 17:28 GMT
#2
just like everyone else you only seem to remember some particular games of the ti4 playoffs.
overall the teams had very different playstyles just like they do now
FTD
Jisira
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
470 Posts
August 07 2017 12:25 GMT
#3
TI4 post group-stage was Newbee waking up, taking down two weak EU teams then brawling with IG to get a WB berth where they figured out VG who faced them two out of the three BoX series they had in the playoffs.
If you're thinking about the EG vs VG LB finals, games 1 and 3, they had some very questionable choices both during draft and in-game from EG.
The rest of the games were good, for the most part.
YourGoodFriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2197 Posts
August 07 2017 16:28 GMT
#4
Yeah I have really enjoyed just watching dota this TI, it doesnt feel like there is one strat to rule them all or even the "better" strat (hoohohaha) that you have to counter either in draft or in game. Also I feel like more heros are actually playable this year. Like we are not seeing the same basic matchup in every game but instead getting things I have never really seen before (Visage carry O.o). It just is so fun to watch right now
anonymous is the most famous author that anyone can be
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11964 Posts
August 07 2017 16:41 GMT
#5
On August 08 2017 01:28 YourGoodFriend wrote:
Yeah I have really enjoyed just watching dota this TI, it doesnt feel like there is one strat to rule them all or even the "better" strat (hoohohaha) that you have to counter either in draft or in game. Also I feel like more heros are actually playable this year. Like we are not seeing the same basic matchup in every game but instead getting things I have never really seen before (Visage carry O.o). It just is so fun to watch right now

4 protect 1 does not seem to work. That is the only thing I've seen tried out and failed even with good play. It has won games but just seems straight up worse.
BrownBear
Profile Joined March 2010
United States6894 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-08 19:22:16
August 08 2017 19:21 GMT
#6
Wrong thread.
SUNSFANNED
VGhost
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3616 Posts
August 09 2017 00:35 GMT
#7
Wonder whether this feeling is holding up after watching Liquid and EG blown out of the upper bracket? Love to see a follow-up after (or even halfway through) the elimination stages.
#4427 || I am not going to scan a ferret.
Deleted User 97295
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1137 Posts
August 13 2017 01:58 GMT
#8
--- Nuked ---
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 412
TKL 325
Liquid`VortiX 124
DivinesiaTV 13
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 1370
Mini 712
Larva 567
Soma 451
Light 404
Snow 201
firebathero 171
Rush 147
ggaemo 138
PianO 84
[ Show more ]
Yoon 39
Aegong 39
Movie 38
sorry 30
910 26
soO 24
Bale 21
Dewaltoss 21
Sacsri 11
Dota 2
syndereN1387
XcaliburYe542
Counter-Strike
adren_tv107
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor201
Other Games
Grubby6509
B2W.Neo1376
FrodaN488
Fuzer 340
Lowko293
crisheroes284
hiko278
ceh9226
ToD109
Mew2King106
QueenE92
nookyyy 71
Trikslyr36
RushiSC15
Organizations
Other Games
WardiTV997
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 25
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV1574
League of Legends
• Nemesis3097
• TFBlade828
Other Games
• Shiphtur51
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
1m
WardiTV Invitational
1d 19h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.