• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:18
CEST 06:18
KST 13:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed15Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed Who will win EWC 2025? The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Server Blocker
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Soulkey Muta Micro Map? [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 615 users

Free will

Blogs > JWD[9]
Post a Reply
JWD[9]
Profile Blog Joined November 2015
364 Posts
April 06 2017 15:31 GMT
#1
Now we can eat a Mc Chicken or a Crispy Chicken, both, nothing or something different.
If whichever of these options we choose, influences who we are, then we will never know whom we might had become, had we chosen differently, unless we travel back in time.
It will take two more minutes to invent timetravel, so lets take that time and think about how we made choices before it was invented. We tried to make predictions based on the models we created from past experiences. Lets keep in mind that this is all under the assumption that what we choose influences who we are.

Now we go back in time and eat both, surely not our first choice, but we just wanna know where that path will lead us. So either our model was good, and eating both is a terrible idea, or we improve our model for choice making. Eventually we end up with a model of the world that is more accurate, and better yet, if it fails we just go back in time. Now all the coices we make will be in tune with who we are and strive to be. These aren't exactly choices, these are logical steps.
So then there really ever only was one choice, wasn't there? Who are you?

There is something not accounted for in the first sentence, the something different part. What if that actually sums up infinite somethings. Now even a timemachine does not do the job of giving us the accurate model. If there isn't and can't be an accurate model, then we are left with choices we make, the intentions we had, the effects that ... well, do they affect us?

If they do, then the more time we spend living, the more we might move away from our selfs. Might, because what if, by serendipity a wrongly predicted outcome actually moves us closer to who we want to be. Is life like playing darts, trying to hit bullseye and sometimes your failures land in tripple 20?

Another assumption made was that "Who are you?" is a choice. What if it isn't? Now life becomes truly dull. Now free will and choices are nothing more than the attempt to follow your model of the world with precision.

Lets take a stand right now on wether who you are is a choice or not, before looking into the implications of a world, where the effects of the choices you make do not influence who you are. Do I care wether I chose to be who I am or just am who I am? Nope.

So, Hedonism? It does not work on a physical level, as our brain will strive to balance out happy and sad, wether we win the lottery or are an inmate on deathrow. That doesn't mean it won't work on a spiritual level, so we then are free to make whatever choice to the best of our abilities, to see if we find something fun for the immortal soul. And we get to try over and over again, maybe not as precise as we would if we had a time machine, but there is plenty room for error.

What if this is all backwards? What if life isn't about creating a good model and reasonable decisions? What if we don't know the answer to "Who are you?" and by intuitively stumbling through life instead, everything we recognize as a choice, tells us something about who we are? A timemachine would then have the most destructive effect on the psyche, as it robs us
from discovering who we are, as we would have to live with having made all the choices.

If an inaccurate model is part of the human condition, then who cares about free will, if life feels like living again if all we gotta do is stop thinking for a second?

So I guess, what I wanna tell myself, is to stop predicting the future and start discovering the past while moving forward.

ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
April 06 2017 22:44 GMT
#2
Something in our psyche, whether it be cultural or biologically innate, requires us to think we have this free range of choices, when really, the only choices we could have made are the ones we did. On top of that, we have no control over where we are born, where we live, and circumstances of existing, such as natural disasters, moments of luck, random stingray attacks, errors in the judgement of others, and microscopic viruses. Do you think one-third of the population of Europe CHOSE to die from the black plague during the Dark Ages? Maybe if they had access to soap... but alas.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
FiveHundred
Profile Blog Joined April 2017
109 Posts
April 07 2017 02:04 GMT
#3
Causation may be merely opinion.

Since we do not know the formulation of causation, we cannot comment on the existence of free will from the typical philosophical perspective: determinism. Most philosophers, notably especially Daniet C. Dennett embrace a loose form of compatibilism which is essentially an acknowledgment of causation (that it exists), and that free will, whatever it is, is compatible with causation, whatever it is.

Dennett himself is seen in lecture to provide extensive background modeling including the famous "life world" modeling and several other conceptual projects which support his view that free will (as Dennett is seen to understand it) is compatible with causation (as Dennett is seen to understand it).

We do not know anything about causation, in the opinion of many enlightened philosophers. This concept began with David Hume, that we simply have insufficient knowledge of causation. Physicists, notably Brian Greene of Columbia have presented models of time wherein there is a rate of information transmission (bounded by Einstein's theories) wherein the current situation on Earth is transmitted sufficiently to the rest of the universe. We do not know what that entails, in my opinion, because it seems very opaque, from my current knowledge of the physical universe. Other planets in the universe may not be informed of our whereabouts, which creates significant confusion from the perspective of Earth. Does the physics of other places in our world adequately acknowledge the present state of Earth. To be honest, I do not think we can answer this question.

Therefore, your past is speculative from the global worldview. I would not be depressed about it.
Recipient of a divinity survey. Users can identify you by your password. A cat is a fully-explained dog.
FiveHundred
Profile Blog Joined April 2017
109 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-08 01:23:18
April 07 2017 22:35 GMT
#4
Your blog has been very helpful in crafting my philosophy book which is now nearing 60,000 words. Particularly, I found myself asking, "What if I could live the lives of all things cotemporaneous to my own life?" The prevailing theory is that if everything lived perfectly my life would be perfect. I don't think this entails or debunks hedonism. I don't know if it does.

Actually I found myself asking the other night whether there was much sense in the usual sado-masochism. There are some interesting esoteric physics hypotheses like "quantum immortality" and "the everett multiworld hypothesis" that seem to tie into what you've written, and I think a lot of people have written on this question. We can see there are a variety of strategies for navigating whatever terrain is presented in these ideas. But it seems not many people have a solution that they like themselves. There are obvious psychological advantages in various strategies like "depression" "mania" and similar mental functions, but it is never obvious that the functional role could not be maintained without resorting to the states of illness.
Recipient of a divinity survey. Users can identify you by your password. A cat is a fully-explained dog.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 42m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 315
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 8559
PianO 119
ajuk12(nOOB) 50
LuMiX 1
Dota 2
monkeys_forever879
League of Legends
JimRising 661
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1211
Other Games
summit1g15779
shahzam1160
WinterStarcraft360
C9.Mang0252
ViBE248
Trikslyr60
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick4382
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH249
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki15
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1069
• Stunt564
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
5h 42m
Epic.LAN
7h 42m
CSO Contender
12h 42m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 5h
Online Event
1d 11h
Esports World Cup
3 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
4 days
Esports World Cup
5 days
Esports World Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
Championship of Russia 2025
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.