Recently I've been reading William James' The Varieties of Religious Experience. I'm just finishing a chapter about how various Christian sects sprung up in the early 1900s, who claimed that faith and positive thinking could cure disease and bring wealth. These ideas have always been ubiquitous around me growing up, mostly in secular form. I never thought of when or why this special brand of American optimism arose, so it's been an interesting morning on wikipedia reading about the The New Thought Movement, Christian Science, and Prosperity Theology. The biography of Mary Baker Eddy, the founder of the Christian Science sect, was particularly fascinating. She was sickly yet beautiful, insane yet charismatic. I suppose it is only those who embody extremes who are able to draw followers and found sects.
Anyway, the reason this topic interested me is because a friend recently gave me a book by Dr. Caroline Leaf, which seems like it could have come straight out of the New Thought Movement. She makes the identical claim that physical disease is caused by wrong thoughts and is curable by thinking right thoughts. I'm not super interested in the validity of the claim; just its origin, and why the self-help industry that has sprung up around similar ideas has grown so large. While the idea that our thoughts shape us is a very old one, I think the forms it takes in this country are peculiar and unique. So now when I hear advice from the latest Dr Phil or Rhonda Byrne repeated to me, I will think that their existence is due in part to early 20th century faith healing sects and cults. Not a test to the truth of their advice, but amusing to think nonetheless.
Very interesting. I also think there is too much self-improvement this, self-improvent there in our daily lives. This whole optimization just makes us not having a strong character. Optimization is usually used in our work life to get the most out of things. I mean it makes humans not have their own opinion and just "optimize" themselves as their circumstances change. It's a petty way of automatically controlling the society.
Gotta know when to optimize and when to just let it be.
When something makes money, people do it. I'm almost positive all of the people who write about really crazy ideas like "anything wrong physically is caused by bad mental thoughts" don't actually believe what they say, they just believe their accountants when they say this book will make them X amount of dollars.
On August 22 2016 08:08 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote: Very interesting. I also think there is too much self-improvement this, self-improvent there in our daily lives. This whole optimization just makes us not having a strong character. Optimization is usually used in our work life to get the most out of things. I mean it makes humans not have their own opinion and just "optimize" themselves as their circumstances change. It's a petty way of automatically controlling the society.
Gotta know when to optimize and when to just let it be.
Kind of like we are parts in a machine, yeah? Maybe itʻs the factory line mentality of industrialization. We must squeeze max efficiency out of everyone.
On August 22 2016 09:20 mierin wrote: When something makes money, people do it. I'm almost positive all of the people who write about really crazy ideas like "anything wrong physically is caused by bad mental thoughts" don't actually believe what they say, they just believe their accountants when they say this book will make them X amount of dollars.
No doubt it is often a strong motivator. Like that lady that founded Christian Science unsurprisingly became wealthy in the process. Iʻd like to think though that most of these people do believe in their cures, even if money becomes their primary object eventually.
i'm not much of a fan of these self-help guru guys.. but i went to this one guy's presentation because my gf insisted. The DR firmly stated: the message i send to all my patients is that no one is coming to the rescue. no one is coming to make your life right... "no one is coming"
a lady in the audience spoke up noting the speaker's contridiction...she said "but Nathaniel you arrived!"
he quickly replied.... "i came to say that no one is coming"
he stated the time when his patients leap forward in therapy is upon the realization that their life is their own and what they make of it is all they have. progress in therapy is largely a function of how much the patient takes on self responsibility for the quality of their life.
I've realized now that if i get far enough that people read or listen to me say that my life is interesting i'll probably reply that it isn't and wasn't.
Raynor, a lot of people get banned for genocide, xenocide is the next in line and finally people are banned for quantum suicide. It seems like you're looking for answers in all the wrong places. People frequently read into what people say.
Well I thought you were going to talk about the Puritan work ethic or something but then you went off into left field.
William James...uh...I don't know... I think it's very dangerous to think you understand a group of people because you read a book on them. James just strikes me as too credulous, like those experts who go into a field they have never worked in before and suddenly have all the answers.
basically, the speaker in the video is saying... we're experiencing an accelerated rate of change. in other words the 2nd derivative taken on the reality function is very high.
due to this accelerated rate of change many have this feeling that the ground beneath their feet is shifting and it gives people an uneasy feeling of total instability.
as a result, many people are reaching for religion as a stabilizer .... while others are reaching for self help techniques to improve their confidence and increase their willingness to think independently.
as a side note , Alvin Toffler coined the phrase "Future Shock" to describes human reaction to the ever increasing rate of change. I think Toffler is a f'n genius.
I personally do not find it surprising that people are drawn to this kind of thing, because this is an often ignored aspect of one's health. Part of the reason people are as open to the nonsense it's packaged with is that it's not being properly addressed in other parts of their lives. It fills a void.
Thoughts can and do directly relate to one's physical health, it has without a doubt been proven that stress damages one's body and depression physically affects the brain. It's not much of a stretch to think that other emotional states and modes of thought will affect the body.
That said, it is not some magic cure-all, it's just one component of many in relation to one's overall well-being.
juzt sayin religion is tied up with magic and pyramids are still top notch magick even with chapels and shit. believe what u will but don't count out aliens. even small aliens in 0D
On August 23 2016 04:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote: basically, the speaker in the video is saying... we're experiencing an accelerated rate of change. in other words the 2nd derivative taken on the reality function is very high.
due to this accelerated rate of change many have this feeling that the ground beneath their feet is shifting and it gives people an uneasy feeling of total instability.
as a result, many people are reaching for religion as a stabilizer .... while others are reaching for self help techniques to improve their confidence and increase their willingness to think independently.
as a side note , Alvin Toffler coined the phrase "Future Shock" to describes human reaction to the ever increasing rate of change. I think Toffler is a f'n genius.
You don't see libertarianism as a religious movement?
Eh, well...There's lots of directions you could go with this and I'm not sure if your aim is to just be pejorative, but no. It's a political ideology. It's a pretty bare bones ideology in my opinion. Only Capitalism is more bare bones, but Capitalism is much more malleable and can graft onto a range of of other theories.
You could argue that Libertarianism could trace some roots back to some religious movements, but the roots of American Progressivism in the descendants of Puritans is well documented and they display a much greater degree of "religious" fervor.
On August 23 2016 04:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote: basically, the speaker in the video is saying... we're experiencing an accelerated rate of change. in other words the 2nd derivative taken on the reality function is very high.
due to this accelerated rate of change many have this feeling that the ground beneath their feet is shifting and it gives people an uneasy feeling of total instability.
as a result, many people are reaching for religion as a stabilizer .... while others are reaching for self help techniques to improve their confidence and increase their willingness to think independently.
as a side note , Alvin Toffler coined the phrase "Future Shock" to describes human reaction to the ever increasing rate of change. I think Toffler is a f'n genius.
You don't see libertarianism as a religious movement?
i'm unsure of libertarianism's meta-ethical roots. the be an objecitivist as branden is you must believe that life and death is our ultimate alternative that we face every second of every day. some religions argue you are not actually dead and you live on .. and your alternative is to serve god or not... and physical life and death are not of prime importance.
strictly speaking Branden is not a libertarian. he is a david kelley objectivist. objectivism split in 2.. with a bunch siding with Kelley and a bunch siding with Rand's anointed intellectual heir Leonard Piekoff.
although i do not believe in every word ever uttered by Miss Rand i'd describe myself as a Kelley-Objectivist.
the debate between Kelley and Piekoff hinges upon Kelley's "Fact And Value" thesis.
the next time you are having trouble sleeping , rather than taking a sedative i recommend "fact and value" by David Kelley.
it's not really a question of whether you'll come back to life but whether you'll come back to life in a timely fashion as yourself. i don't want to wake up as a different person every day, and the fact that i sometimes do is evidence that a great many things are beyond our control.
I think that this is a very interesting idea. The big self-help gurus have very similar hallmarks to American Evangelical Christian movement - a cult of personality, faith-based healing (physical, professional, financial), moral self-improvement, fanaticism, group mentality/congregations.... and manipulative and shady financial practices.
On August 24 2016 06:40 Jerubaal wrote: Eh, well...There's lots of directions you could go with this and I'm not sure if your aim is to just be pejorative, but no. It's a political ideology. It's a pretty bare bones ideology in my opinion. Only Capitalism is more bare bones, but Capitalism is much more malleable and can graft onto a range of of other theories.
You could argue that Libertarianism could trace some roots back to some religious movements, but the roots of American Progressivism in the descendants of Puritans is well documented and they display a much greater degree of "religious" fervor.
I was being somewhat facetious... But no, I don't think that something being a religion makes it wholly bad. But it does usually entail a bunch of people that believe it to be wholly good and with that stop thinking for themselves.
On August 23 2016 04:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote: basically, the speaker in the video is saying... we're experiencing an accelerated rate of change. in other words the 2nd derivative taken on the reality function is very high.
due to this accelerated rate of change many have this feeling that the ground beneath their feet is shifting and it gives people an uneasy feeling of total instability.
as a result, many people are reaching for religion as a stabilizer .... while others are reaching for self help techniques to improve their confidence and increase their willingness to think independently.
as a side note , Alvin Toffler coined the phrase "Future Shock" to describes human reaction to the ever increasing rate of change. I think Toffler is a f'n genius.
You don't see libertarianism as a religious movement?
i'm unsure of libertarianism's meta-ethical roots. the be an objecitivist as branden is you must believe that life and death is our ultimate alternative that we face every second of every day. some religions argue you are not actually dead and you live on .. and your alternative is to serve god or not... and physical life and death are not of prime importance.
strictly speaking Branden is not a libertarian. he is a david kelley objectivist. objectivism split in 2.. with a bunch siding with Kelley and a bunch siding with Rand's anointed intellectual heir Leonard Piekoff.
although i do not believe in every word ever uttered by Miss Rand i'd describe myself as a Kelley-Objectivist.
the debate between Kelley and Piekoff hinges upon Kelley's "Fact And Value" thesis.
the next time you are having trouble sleeping , rather than taking a sedative i recommend "fact and value" by David Kelley.
Yes, this doesn't sound like a religion at all.
Do you have a link to "fact and value" by David Kelley? All I could find was an argument that started when Peter Schwartz told Kelley he wasn't allowed to talk to Libertarians, Kelley said "no way, that's bullshit" and then Piekoff told Kelley "No, YOU'RE bullshit" in an essay entitled "Fact and value".
EPT
