• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:25
CEST 08:25
KST 15:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20254Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202576RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced20BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I offer completely free coaching services Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL Dewalt's Show Matches in China
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 616 users

LotV Crash Course for a Beta Masters?

Blogs > guitarizt
Post a Reply
guitarizt
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1492 Posts
December 15 2015 00:26 GMT
#1
Practically all my knowledge is from beta. I was random masters then, but I feel like I went into a time machine and arrived at LotV. I've been catching up the past couple of weeks. I went from silver to plat, but I feel like my builds and knowledge are starting to hold me back versus the mechanics. Anyone have any advice, or just keep watching and playing games?

“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” - Hemingway
vJehoelv
Profile Joined June 2011
United States103 Posts
December 15 2015 02:21 GMT
#2
Im not sure if this should be in blogs or gen. discussion.
guitarizt
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1492 Posts
December 15 2015 03:57 GMT
#3
I didn't want to put it in the simple Q&A thread to get one reply and have it buried forever. I did start out posting my strongest match ups and where I'm strong and weak, but I'm like no one wants to read all that. Here's the tl;dr version:

I mained zerg after beta so that's my strongest race. ZvX seems easy and ZvZ has stayed pretty much the same I think so that's my strongest matchup. When I play WoL style ZvT and ZvP I win. When I'm way ahead and I stray from that I waste units. I seem to have a hard time getting ultra to work, and I haven't made lurkers that much yet.

PvP is by far my worst matchup. I have less than a 40% winrate with PvX and a 70% win rate with ZvX.

TvT is a nightmare and my second worst matchup. TvX all I know are bio opens, but I'm running into problems with late game army use, too. I'm just trying to drop and get far enough ahead and usually win with bio. I'm starting to run into problems TvZ once they have a ton of lings out mid game. It's all downhill from there. Bio is working really well TvP though.
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” - Hemingway
pEcul!Ar
Profile Joined December 2015
52 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-15 11:58:14
December 15 2015 11:48 GMT
#4
Just focus on unit composition. Lotv is new, a lot of build orders are still to be invented so don't hesitate to improvise. Personally as zerg, the only real build order I keep in mind is the 13 gas 12 pool and fast expand before pool, all the other stuff I'm not too worried about, rather invent my own openings, creating my own versions of the build orders that're already out there etc..

Recognizing a build order is important when you're scouting though (so knowing the current meta and build orders is a must), but imo, be creative, innovative,.. been playing as zerg since bw, tried other races on sc2/ lotv, but zerg is just second nature, and that's another advice I'd give, stick to 1 race. Going random is fine when you're already more than decent with one of the three.

Right now you're in a timeframe where not everything has been defined yet, one year from now people are gonna be like oh aye, you have those build orders and the only correct way to do them is THAT way (which imo isn't completely true), so have fun, don't worry.
You look at people and you see puzzles. I see games. You? You're a game I'll win everytime.
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
December 15 2015 12:35 GMT
#5
just watch some streams man. you will pick up quite a bit from players like snute or solar even if zvx is the least of your worries right now. definitely the flavor of the month is the bile + infestor combination.

by watching the ravager style you can understand the small frames you have to be aggressive.
for example, taking a 3rd or fourth on certain maps off an aggressive opening. double evo is usually timed with this so this is a great time to try and get drop damage done with 1-1 with bio.

another example in tvp, and as seen in games TY just played against hero in the pre-season of gsl:
the oracle and singular adept pressure is common enough. at that point you may have 5 marines off your reactor barracks at your wall. he hikes his adept up to the wall to hit any marines trying to deter it and it makes the 2nd oracle much stronger because the initial pack of marines are dealt with.
fast cyclone openings can deal with a number of things quite nicely, it stalls their tech and forces them to take a risky third if their pressure (warp prism, oracle) is rebuffed. you're also kind of dead if you take damage as you can no longer pressure in time.

in my opinion, tvt is the same as always. control changes a little due to medi-tanks and it's slightly more aggressive but the only real difference is that your tanks are perpetually sieged and kept in medivacs when moving. the most common style is still bio tank in which the starport is still kept active after your first 6 or so medivacs. they're just producing 2 libs. at the time for 300/300 which is fine at this point because you're on 6 gas with a third. libs are used to eventually break out and force a situation after enough damage has been done. they're basically using the same range as your siege tanks, so i typically plant the zones slightly outside their army range and just within range of your tanks. ideally, they are in range of their tanks as well, so you can target fire.

once you know what you can die to i'm sure you can figure out a way to play in the way that you want.
against ravager attacks, i'm not sure. i just make tanks and make sure they do not die to bile. others use widow mines which is not very reliable against better players imo.
*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
guitarizt
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1492 Posts
December 15 2015 18:42 GMT
#6
It's funny I actually watched some of gsl last night for the first time in probably like 4+ years and it was pretty crazy. I was really surprised they were going fast third and roach rav solar vs life, and then drg did some good stuff vs life. I saw the first game of ty vs hero. I picked up a lot from state's stream last night, too. Everything is way way diff now.

I started maining zerg again last yesterday just so I could see where I maxed out, and my win rate overall is still 70%. I'll probably bounce back to protoss and terran once I feel like I've plateaued with zerg. It's such a change in mentality going from the old school style of looking out for 2 rax rine and two gate zealot to feeling extremely safe early game.

Thanks for the advice it's already helped like 10x more than what I've been reading on the forums. I was trying to copy what I've seen in the guide and help me threads, but for some reason watching the very top level player games is helping way more. I thought it'd hurt me at first since they're in a completely different league, but they're also going to be faster at figuring out the game.
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” - Hemingway
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 35m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft749
Nina 261
ProTech44
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2579
Larva 462
Backho 172
scan(afreeca) 87
zelot 76
sSak 58
IntoTheRainbow 9
League of Legends
JimRising 773
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K106
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor164
Other Games
summit1g8427
RuFF_SC285
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1385
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH248
• practicex 46
• Light_VIP 22
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota280
League of Legends
• Lourlo1377
Upcoming Events
FEL
2h 35m
Krystianer vs sOs
SKillous vs ArT
MaNa vs Elazer
Spirit vs Gerald
Clem vs TBD
uThermal vs TBD
Reynor vs TBD
Lambo vs TBD
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
7h 35m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
11h 35m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.