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So I'm feeling a little sentimental right now (the alcohol helps) and thought I'd share what's on my mind. In other words, I'm writing a blog.
A little over a year ago, I was out of work, broke, and doing nothing with my life. I had dropped out of college due to a complete apathy with the American Collegiate system (a topic for another blog) and seemed to be going totally nowhere with my life. I wasn't looking for work for a whole list of justifiable reasons in my head at the time. (that job is stupid, that job doesn't pay shit, that job looks like it just is exploitive of stupid and gullible people, etc.) I survived by the good graces of my family and little else.
I was bogged down with what seemed like an endless list of possibilities. Questions about what I should be doing with my life, combined with a depressing feeling of failure and rejection, to create an especially toxic and debilitating mix. Put simply, I was a retreatist in all senses of the word.
Finally my godmother (who is basically like a second mother to me) told me something that I think everyone should hear, especially those who are feeling down on their luck like I was. She told me, "so what? Life still happens, with or without you. Your life is still going while you sit around and try and figure things out. Just go and do things, ANYTHING, and life will come to you."
A short while after that, a very good friend of mine gave me a break. He told about a job running food at one of the bars he worked at was opening up and he wanted me to apply for it. Without anything to lose, I applied. As luck would have it, one of the bar managers who knew me from when I would come in to visit decided to give me a chance. His only question was, "are you in shape? Can you run up and down stairs all night." I lied and told him I was. He gave me the job.
I wasn't in shape at all. I had gained a lot of weight during my idle years and wasn't in any shape to be on my feet 10 hours a night running up and down stairs carrying trays and bins (occasionally later, empty and full kegs) but I had made a promise to my godmother, my good friend and myself that I was going to stop with the excuses and simply work my butt off.
I am here to tell you a year later that I have not been this happy with myself or my life in a long time. This bar job is easily the best I have ever had. In a year I have learned enough that the management has moved me to a bartending position one night a week, while I barback 4 other nights a week. I make enough money doing my job that I have paid off all of the debt I had with people during my idle years, built a kickass gaming PC, and am still saving money for a possible trip to Europe soon: something I've always wanted.
How the hell did I manage to go from doing nothing with my life to landing the best job I could have ever hoped for? Simple. I got lucky as fuck; but it took a little doing on my part: I stopped with excuses, I stopped expecting to just land a high prestige job just because I was told that's what I should be doing by my family or high school teachers and I stopped thinking like an entitled brat. I simply just wanted to work and I landed a kickass job that I never would have even considered as a career while I was in school.
I am in the best shape I've been in since high school, I am making more money than I ever have before, I am working somewhere I legitimately love, and for the first time in my life I feel like I have something I can consider a career without feeling embarassed or ashamed about it. It all happened because I finally decided that doing SOMETHING was better than doing nothing.
TLDR: This blog is a big bragging rant of how well my life is going compared to how shitty it was going before. Feel free to judge me negatively or take a positive message from it as you will.
 
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so the job is actually ok then? almost all of my jobs i've pretty much wanted to kill myself after a few months
have you yet thought about going back into education?
mega congrats
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Hmm I can relate to much of this.
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On July 11 2015 21:03 FFGenerations wrote:
so the job is actually ok then? almost all of my jobs i've pretty much wanted to kill myself after a few months
have you yet thought about going back into education?
mega congrats
Not a tiny bit. My feelings on advanced education have not changed. A college degree has no use for me since I don't plan on ever using it for anything.
For the people out there doing computer science, chemistry, physics or pre-med it's different because there is a crapload of jobs out there that that kind of education is very important for. For the vast majority of the rest of us, hard work and initiative are what get us starting positions and experience and competence are what get us promoted. Organized education in that sense has no meaning for us. It's all just a farce to keep us in school, keeping teachers employed and getting schools their funding.
Besides, anything I could ever learn or want to learn is available on the internet now anyway.
That's a quick summary of how I feel about it all and why I quit. I wanted to enjoy school just for the sake of education and knowledge but eventually I learned that that kind of mentality is as archaic and old school as a 4 pool Zergling rush.
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Wanting to learn things properly is not archaic. Nice job though.
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On July 11 2015 21:12 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 21:03 FFGenerations wrote:
so the job is actually ok then? almost all of my jobs i've pretty much wanted to kill myself after a few months
have you yet thought about going back into education?
mega congrats Not a tiny bit. My feelings on advanced education have not changed. A college degree has no use for me since I don't plan on ever using it for anything. For the people out there doing computer science, chemistry, physics or pre-med it's different because there is a crapload of jobs out there that that kind of education is very important for. For the vast majority of the rest of us, hard work and initiative are what get us starting positions and experience and competence are what get us promoted. Organized education in that sense has no meaning for us. It's all just a farce to keep us in school, keeping teachers employed and getting schools their funding. Besides, anything I could ever learn or want to learn is available on the internet now anyway. That's a quick summary of how I feel about it all and why I quit. I wanted to enjoy school just for the sake of education and knowledge but eventually I learned that that kind of mentality is as archaic and old school as a 4 pool Zergling rush.
That's foolish and short sighted of you.
In the UK and I'm sure it's similar enough to the US degree graduates earn aprox £12k ($18k) more than the people who don't.
I'm assuming your still living at home and don't have any money related responsibilities. I also fail to see what career progression barwork has?
I was kicked out of school at 12/13 I have only just now been given the opportunity to take my A levels so hopefully in 2/3 years I will be in university. I was working at a warehouse on £7.40 an hour with progression to around £8 in the same job and progression to better paying jobs within that system.
The point I'm making is that sort of work is great short term but consider going back to further education longterm it is helpful (assuming you're taking a valid degree cause with good career paths, no david beckham studies)
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On July 11 2015 22:20 Ovid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 21:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 11 2015 21:03 FFGenerations wrote:
so the job is actually ok then? almost all of my jobs i've pretty much wanted to kill myself after a few months
have you yet thought about going back into education?
mega congrats Not a tiny bit. My feelings on advanced education have not changed. A college degree has no use for me since I don't plan on ever using it for anything. For the people out there doing computer science, chemistry, physics or pre-med it's different because there is a crapload of jobs out there that that kind of education is very important for. For the vast majority of the rest of us, hard work and initiative are what get us starting positions and experience and competence are what get us promoted. Organized education in that sense has no meaning for us. It's all just a farce to keep us in school, keeping teachers employed and getting schools their funding. Besides, anything I could ever learn or want to learn is available on the internet now anyway. That's a quick summary of how I feel about it all and why I quit. I wanted to enjoy school just for the sake of education and knowledge but eventually I learned that that kind of mentality is as archaic and old school as a 4 pool Zergling rush. That's foolish and short sighted of you. In the UK and I'm sure it's similar enough to the US degree graduates earn aprox £12k ($18k) more than the people who don't. I'm assuming your still living at home and don't have any money related responsibilities. I also fail to see what career progression barwork has? I was kicked out of school at 12/13 I have only just now been given the opportunity to take my A levels so hopefully in 2/3 years I will be in university. I was working at a warehouse on £7.40 an hour with progression to around £8 in the same job and progression to better paying jobs within that system. The point I'm making is that sort of work is great short term but consider going back to further education longterm it is helpful (assuming you're taking a valid degree cause with good career paths, no david beckham studies)
I've done the math already.
My college major was sociology. I studied it because I enjoyed it, not because I was after the money.
At my current job I make right now with only a year's worth of experience about 45k per year before taxes. That is as much as I could hope to earn after a 6-12 month internship at one of various non-profits where that kind of degree is useful.
I suppose I could go back to school, pursue a career in a science if earning a salary was all I was after. However; that is not my forte.
I enjoy what I currently do. My education in Social Science has meaning in what I currently do. I earn enough money to live on my own with all of the financial responsibilities of such (I do my own finances and am planning currently how and when to move out on my own atm.) already.
Why go back to school then?
There is the possibility that the lustre of what I am currently doing fades, but then I will make a decision to change careers then and not now. Right now, I am enjoying the actual fact that I am a working member of society. I have held jobs before that I have not enjoyed, this is the first in a long while that I have.
If I were to give advice to anyone, I would tell them to do what they enjoy, not what they think will get them more money. Chasing after money in my opinion is the easiest way to end up doing something you either hate or are not good at. If you do something you like to do, eventually (if you are good at it) you will make good money doing it.
It all depends on circumstance, luck, and drive. Education doesn't matter for a large part of it.
Also for your information, there is actually a LOT of career progression for bar work. Distributors and manufacturers frequently employ seasoned bar workers to their service to either a: promote their product or b: help with marketing their product via specialized cocktail programs. These kinds of cushy high paying jobs are referred to in this industry as rep jobs, and they pay very well for very little work required.
There are other such dream jobs, that is but one example. They are not very common admittedly, but they do exist.
The higher end of these kinds of gigs pay ridiculous amounts of money.
Do not ever underestimate the financial power of the American Vice Economy. It's a very real thing.
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When it comes down to it all you need is Starcraft, girlfriend and enough money to get by right :D?
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On July 11 2015 22:34 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 22:20 Ovid wrote:On July 11 2015 21:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 11 2015 21:03 FFGenerations wrote:
so the job is actually ok then? almost all of my jobs i've pretty much wanted to kill myself after a few months
have you yet thought about going back into education?
mega congrats Not a tiny bit. My feelings on advanced education have not changed. A college degree has no use for me since I don't plan on ever using it for anything. For the people out there doing computer science, chemistry, physics or pre-med it's different because there is a crapload of jobs out there that that kind of education is very important for. For the vast majority of the rest of us, hard work and initiative are what get us starting positions and experience and competence are what get us promoted. Organized education in that sense has no meaning for us. It's all just a farce to keep us in school, keeping teachers employed and getting schools their funding. Besides, anything I could ever learn or want to learn is available on the internet now anyway. That's a quick summary of how I feel about it all and why I quit. I wanted to enjoy school just for the sake of education and knowledge but eventually I learned that that kind of mentality is as archaic and old school as a 4 pool Zergling rush. That's foolish and short sighted of you. In the UK and I'm sure it's similar enough to the US degree graduates earn aprox £12k ($18k) more than the people who don't. I'm assuming your still living at home and don't have any money related responsibilities. I also fail to see what career progression barwork has? I was kicked out of school at 12/13 I have only just now been given the opportunity to take my A levels so hopefully in 2/3 years I will be in university. I was working at a warehouse on £7.40 an hour with progression to around £8 in the same job and progression to better paying jobs within that system. The point I'm making is that sort of work is great short term but consider going back to further education longterm it is helpful (assuming you're taking a valid degree cause with good career paths, no david beckham studies) I've done the math already. My college major was sociology. I studied it because I enjoyed it, not because I was after the money. At my current job I make right now with only a year's worth of experience about 45k per year before taxes. That is as much as I could hope to earn after a 6-12 month internship at one of various non-profits where that kind of degree is useful. I suppose I could go back to school, pursue a career in a science if earning a salary was all I was after. However; that is not my forte. I enjoy what I currently do. My education in Social Science has meaning in what I currently do. I earn enough money to live on my own with all of the financial responsibilities of such (I do my own finances and am planning currently how and when to move out on my own atm.) already. Why go back to school then? There is the possibility that the lustre of what I am currently doing fades, but then I will make a decision to change careers then and not now. Right now, I am enjoying the actual fact that I am a working member of society. I have held jobs before that I have not enjoyed, this is the first in a long while that I have. If I were to give advice to anyone, I would tell them to do what they enjoy, not what they think will get them more money. Chasing after money in my opinion is the easiest way to end up doing something you either hate or are not good at. If you do something you like to do, eventually (if you are good at it) you will make good money doing it. It all depends on circumstance, luck, and drive. Education doesn't matter for a large part of it. Also for your information, there is actually a LOT of career progression for bar work. Distributors and manufacturers frequently employ seasoned bar workers to their service to either a: promote their product or b: help with marketing their product via specialized cocktail programs. These kinds of cushy high paying jobs are referred to in this industry as rep jobs, and they pay very well for very little work required. There are other such dream jobs, that is but one example. They are not very common admittedly, but they do exist. The higher end of these kinds of gigs pay ridiculous amounts of money. Do not ever underestimate the financial power of the American Vice Economy. It's a very real thing.
Not underestimating the value of the American Vice Economy but usually that money doesn't fall into the hands of the low level providers rather than owners of the establishments.
Secondly how much is that after tax roughly, UK and US have very different taxes, secondly £28k is a lot of money for a barman in the UK it's around £12k-18k and for "fancy" cocktail bars in london average is only £25k.
How many hours are you putting in?
You don't currently live by yourself so even if you have worked out how much it would cost and think you can afford it your still not at that stage so you can't really say if it's a solid job for future life.
It could be that my moving out workings are based on a much higher price of living. (average rent where I am for a 1/2bed flat is £800-£1k a month 120k to buy a flat with moldy walls/damp 150k for a normal flat 300k for a terraced 2/3bed 4 bed detached £550k 5 bed detached £600-£1mil+, then the insurance for a car for me would be around £1k not mention road tax and fuel at £1.20 a litre)
You won't have money for holidays or to buy anything expensive as a treat (without loads of saving) you will just have enough to exist.
You don't have to go back to Sociology nor do you need to go for a specialised science degree for the insane levels of money, I'm sure there's a degree that would lead to work you'd enjoy/be good at that pays more than to just exist.
I just did a bit of reading about Barman and it's a very different job to what it is in the UK but I just don't see it being stable after the age of 30.
All I'm saying is keep education on your radar.
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On July 11 2015 23:16 puppykiller wrote:
When it comes down to it all you need is Starcraft, girlfriend and enough money to get by right :D?
I have 2. The pursuit of the third is rather difficult. I will leave the rest unsaid.
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On July 11 2015 23:17 Ovid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 22:34 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 11 2015 22:20 Ovid wrote:On July 11 2015 21:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 11 2015 21:03 FFGenerations wrote:
so the job is actually ok then? almost all of my jobs i've pretty much wanted to kill myself after a few months
have you yet thought about going back into education?
mega congrats Not a tiny bit. My feelings on advanced education have not changed. A college degree has no use for me since I don't plan on ever using it for anything. For the people out there doing computer science, chemistry, physics or pre-med it's different because there is a crapload of jobs out there that that kind of education is very important for. For the vast majority of the rest of us, hard work and initiative are what get us starting positions and experience and competence are what get us promoted. Organized education in that sense has no meaning for us. It's all just a farce to keep us in school, keeping teachers employed and getting schools their funding. Besides, anything I could ever learn or want to learn is available on the internet now anyway. That's a quick summary of how I feel about it all and why I quit. I wanted to enjoy school just for the sake of education and knowledge but eventually I learned that that kind of mentality is as archaic and old school as a 4 pool Zergling rush. That's foolish and short sighted of you. In the UK and I'm sure it's similar enough to the US degree graduates earn aprox £12k ($18k) more than the people who don't. I'm assuming your still living at home and don't have any money related responsibilities. I also fail to see what career progression barwork has? I was kicked out of school at 12/13 I have only just now been given the opportunity to take my A levels so hopefully in 2/3 years I will be in university. I was working at a warehouse on £7.40 an hour with progression to around £8 in the same job and progression to better paying jobs within that system. The point I'm making is that sort of work is great short term but consider going back to further education longterm it is helpful (assuming you're taking a valid degree cause with good career paths, no david beckham studies) I've done the math already. My college major was sociology. I studied it because I enjoyed it, not because I was after the money. At my current job I make right now with only a year's worth of experience about 45k per year before taxes. That is as much as I could hope to earn after a 6-12 month internship at one of various non-profits where that kind of degree is useful. I suppose I could go back to school, pursue a career in a science if earning a salary was all I was after. However; that is not my forte. I enjoy what I currently do. My education in Social Science has meaning in what I currently do. I earn enough money to live on my own with all of the financial responsibilities of such (I do my own finances and am planning currently how and when to move out on my own atm.) already. Why go back to school then? There is the possibility that the lustre of what I am currently doing fades, but then I will make a decision to change careers then and not now. Right now, I am enjoying the actual fact that I am a working member of society. I have held jobs before that I have not enjoyed, this is the first in a long while that I have. If I were to give advice to anyone, I would tell them to do what they enjoy, not what they think will get them more money. Chasing after money in my opinion is the easiest way to end up doing something you either hate or are not good at. If you do something you like to do, eventually (if you are good at it) you will make good money doing it. It all depends on circumstance, luck, and drive. Education doesn't matter for a large part of it. Also for your information, there is actually a LOT of career progression for bar work. Distributors and manufacturers frequently employ seasoned bar workers to their service to either a: promote their product or b: help with marketing their product via specialized cocktail programs. These kinds of cushy high paying jobs are referred to in this industry as rep jobs, and they pay very well for very little work required. There are other such dream jobs, that is but one example. They are not very common admittedly, but they do exist. The higher end of these kinds of gigs pay ridiculous amounts of money. Do not ever underestimate the financial power of the American Vice Economy. It's a very real thing. Not underestimating the value of the American Vice Economy but usually that money doesn't fall into the hands of the low level providers rather than owners of the establishments. Secondly how much is that after tax roughly, UK and US have very different taxes, secondly £28k is a lot of money for a barman in the UK it's around £12k-18k and for "fancy" cocktail bars in london average is only £25k. How many hours are you putting in? You don't currently live by yourself so even if you have worked out how much it would cost and think you can afford it your still not at that stage so you can't really say if it's a solid job for future life. It could be that my moving out workings are based on a much higher price of living. (average rent where I am for a 1/2bed flat is £800-£1k a month 120k to buy a flat with moldy walls/damp 150k for a normal flat 300k for a terraced 2/3bed 4 bed detached £550k 5 bed detached £600-£1mil+, then the insurance for a car for me would be around £1k not mention road tax and fuel at £1.20 a litre) You won't have money for holidays or to buy anything expensive as a treat (without loads of saving) you will just have enough to exist. You don't have to go back to Sociology nor do you need to go for a specialised science degree for the insane levels of money, I'm sure there's a degree that would lead to work you'd enjoy/be good at that pays more than to just exist. I just did a bit of reading about Barman and it's a very different job to what it is in the UK but I just don't see it being stable after the age of 30. All I'm saying is keep education on your radar.
I am putting in roughly 50 hours per week. It's a lot, by most standards I understand that. It is why the "enjoy what I am doing" part. comes in to play so often in my argument. There's no way in hell that I would ever work this many hours doing a job I didn't enjoy, of that I can assure you.
As far as your specific financial information goes. I currently live in Los Angeles, it is both one of the best cities in the world for the trade I am currently practicing, and simultaneously one of the worst markets in the world for anyone seeking to rent or buy which is why I am still living at home at the house I grew up in (which I bike to work from just by the way.)
It is not an easy market to find somewhere affordable to live. My current project right now is to gather friends and family to pull incomes together to purchase a house and share it rather than try and rent a place somewhere and throw money away at it.
The idea for me is that in 10-20 years time, I can work doing what I like also making supplemental income through real estate started through my family's trust and then managed by my brothers and I.
Like I said. My finances are not something that I just leave to chance. I have a lot of information to work with for how to plan for the future and for me, this is what currently makes sense for both what I want and for what makes sense for the other members of my family.
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On July 11 2015 22:20 Ovid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 21:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 11 2015 21:03 FFGenerations wrote:
so the job is actually ok then? almost all of my jobs i've pretty much wanted to kill myself after a few months
have you yet thought about going back into education?
mega congrats Not a tiny bit. My feelings on advanced education have not changed. A college degree has no use for me since I don't plan on ever using it for anything. For the people out there doing computer science, chemistry, physics or pre-med it's different because there is a crapload of jobs out there that that kind of education is very important for. For the vast majority of the rest of us, hard work and initiative are what get us starting positions and experience and competence are what get us promoted. Organized education in that sense has no meaning for us. It's all just a farce to keep us in school, keeping teachers employed and getting schools their funding. Besides, anything I could ever learn or want to learn is available on the internet now anyway. That's a quick summary of how I feel about it all and why I quit. I wanted to enjoy school just for the sake of education and knowledge but eventually I learned that that kind of mentality is as archaic and old school as a 4 pool Zergling rush. That's foolish and short sighted of you. In the UK and I'm sure it's similar enough to the US degree graduates earn aprox £12k ($18k) more than the people who don't. I'm assuming your still living at home and don't have any money related responsibilities. I also fail to see what career progression barwork has? I was kicked out of school at 12/13 I have only just now been given the opportunity to take my A levels so hopefully in 2/3 years I will be in university. I was working at a warehouse on £7.40 an hour with progression to around £8 in the same job and progression to better paying jobs within that system. The point I'm making is that sort of work is great short term but consider going back to further education longterm it is helpful (assuming you're taking a valid degree cause with good career paths, no david beckham studies)
You're hilarious.
I have a BS in Mathematics and Physics, got an 800 on the math GREs, etc. etc. I have been from working in a gas station to IT tech support since college, bogged down in debt an unable to find even a slightly decent job using my degrees. America sucks ass when it comes to college and getting anything done with your life. Maybe it's different in the UK, but I'm jealous of the OP. I have 2 paperweights worth about 40k I'd gladly send back to the school for a refund.
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On July 11 2015 23:42 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 22:20 Ovid wrote:On July 11 2015 21:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 11 2015 21:03 FFGenerations wrote:
so the job is actually ok then? almost all of my jobs i've pretty much wanted to kill myself after a few months
have you yet thought about going back into education?
mega congrats Not a tiny bit. My feelings on advanced education have not changed. A college degree has no use for me since I don't plan on ever using it for anything. For the people out there doing computer science, chemistry, physics or pre-med it's different because there is a crapload of jobs out there that that kind of education is very important for. For the vast majority of the rest of us, hard work and initiative are what get us starting positions and experience and competence are what get us promoted. Organized education in that sense has no meaning for us. It's all just a farce to keep us in school, keeping teachers employed and getting schools their funding. Besides, anything I could ever learn or want to learn is available on the internet now anyway. That's a quick summary of how I feel about it all and why I quit. I wanted to enjoy school just for the sake of education and knowledge but eventually I learned that that kind of mentality is as archaic and old school as a 4 pool Zergling rush. That's foolish and short sighted of you. In the UK and I'm sure it's similar enough to the US degree graduates earn aprox £12k ($18k) more than the people who don't. I'm assuming your still living at home and don't have any money related responsibilities. I also fail to see what career progression barwork has? I was kicked out of school at 12/13 I have only just now been given the opportunity to take my A levels so hopefully in 2/3 years I will be in university. I was working at a warehouse on £7.40 an hour with progression to around £8 in the same job and progression to better paying jobs within that system. The point I'm making is that sort of work is great short term but consider going back to further education longterm it is helpful (assuming you're taking a valid degree cause with good career paths, no david beckham studies) You're hilarious. I have a BS in Mathematics and Physics, got an 800 on the math GREs, etc. etc. I have been from working in a gas station to IT tech support since college, bogged down in debt an unable to find even a slightly decent job using my degrees. America sucks ass when it comes to college and getting anything done with your life. Maybe it's different in the UK, but I'm jealous of the OP. I have 2 paperweights worth about 40k I'd gladly send back to the school for a refund.
I have so many friends like you in a position like yours. In a lot of ways, you guys are the reason I started to rethink my position on college.
Seeing the kinds of shitty situations people my age are thrown into just because they went the route they were "supposed" to go, is exactly what made me drop out in the first place.
I empathize whole heartedly with the frustration you must feel.
Perhaps this blog should've been the one I've been meaning to write about American Education, since that seems to be what all of the discussion has been about.
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On July 11 2015 23:42 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 22:20 Ovid wrote:On July 11 2015 21:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 11 2015 21:03 FFGenerations wrote:
so the job is actually ok then? almost all of my jobs i've pretty much wanted to kill myself after a few months
have you yet thought about going back into education?
mega congrats Not a tiny bit. My feelings on advanced education have not changed. A college degree has no use for me since I don't plan on ever using it for anything. For the people out there doing computer science, chemistry, physics or pre-med it's different because there is a crapload of jobs out there that that kind of education is very important for. For the vast majority of the rest of us, hard work and initiative are what get us starting positions and experience and competence are what get us promoted. Organized education in that sense has no meaning for us. It's all just a farce to keep us in school, keeping teachers employed and getting schools their funding. Besides, anything I could ever learn or want to learn is available on the internet now anyway. That's a quick summary of how I feel about it all and why I quit. I wanted to enjoy school just for the sake of education and knowledge but eventually I learned that that kind of mentality is as archaic and old school as a 4 pool Zergling rush. That's foolish and short sighted of you. In the UK and I'm sure it's similar enough to the US degree graduates earn aprox £12k ($18k) more than the people who don't. I'm assuming your still living at home and don't have any money related responsibilities. I also fail to see what career progression barwork has? I was kicked out of school at 12/13 I have only just now been given the opportunity to take my A levels so hopefully in 2/3 years I will be in university. I was working at a warehouse on £7.40 an hour with progression to around £8 in the same job and progression to better paying jobs within that system. The point I'm making is that sort of work is great short term but consider going back to further education longterm it is helpful (assuming you're taking a valid degree cause with good career paths, no david beckham studies) You're hilarious. I have a BS in Mathematics and Physics, got an 800 on the math GREs, etc. etc. I have been from working in a gas station to IT tech support since college, bogged down in debt an unable to find even a slightly decent job using my degrees. America sucks ass when it comes to college and getting anything done with your life. Maybe it's different in the UK, but I'm jealous of the OP. I have 2 paperweights worth about 40k I'd gladly send back to the school for a refund.
How am I hilarious, I'm just going off my experience and the statistics (UK based knowledge not US) so that probably explains the differing views.
I vaguely remember a quote from some high flying businessman that said he often preferred people with a 2:1 over a 1st because they invariably were better people persons.
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On July 12 2015 00:01 Ovid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 23:42 mierin wrote:On July 11 2015 22:20 Ovid wrote:On July 11 2015 21:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 11 2015 21:03 FFGenerations wrote:
so the job is actually ok then? almost all of my jobs i've pretty much wanted to kill myself after a few months
have you yet thought about going back into education?
mega congrats Not a tiny bit. My feelings on advanced education have not changed. A college degree has no use for me since I don't plan on ever using it for anything. For the people out there doing computer science, chemistry, physics or pre-med it's different because there is a crapload of jobs out there that that kind of education is very important for. For the vast majority of the rest of us, hard work and initiative are what get us starting positions and experience and competence are what get us promoted. Organized education in that sense has no meaning for us. It's all just a farce to keep us in school, keeping teachers employed and getting schools their funding. Besides, anything I could ever learn or want to learn is available on the internet now anyway. That's a quick summary of how I feel about it all and why I quit. I wanted to enjoy school just for the sake of education and knowledge but eventually I learned that that kind of mentality is as archaic and old school as a 4 pool Zergling rush. That's foolish and short sighted of you. In the UK and I'm sure it's similar enough to the US degree graduates earn aprox £12k ($18k) more than the people who don't. I'm assuming your still living at home and don't have any money related responsibilities. I also fail to see what career progression barwork has? I was kicked out of school at 12/13 I have only just now been given the opportunity to take my A levels so hopefully in 2/3 years I will be in university. I was working at a warehouse on £7.40 an hour with progression to around £8 in the same job and progression to better paying jobs within that system. The point I'm making is that sort of work is great short term but consider going back to further education longterm it is helpful (assuming you're taking a valid degree cause with good career paths, no david beckham studies) You're hilarious. I have a BS in Mathematics and Physics, got an 800 on the math GREs, etc. etc. I have been from working in a gas station to IT tech support since college, bogged down in debt an unable to find even a slightly decent job using my degrees. America sucks ass when it comes to college and getting anything done with your life. Maybe it's different in the UK, but I'm jealous of the OP. I have 2 paperweights worth about 40k I'd gladly send back to the school for a refund. How am I hilarious, I'm just going off my experience and the statistics (UK based knowledge not US) so that probably explains the differing views. I vaguely remember a quote from some high flying businessman that said he often preferred people with a 2:1 over a 1st because they invariably were better people persons.
Whatever report you're pulling that from is immensely outdated.
The American workforce is overeducated. It's a problem everywhere. We all go to college and most of us don''t even have a purpose for it. Bachelor's degrees mean virtually nill. Student loan debt is a massive problem.
I could go on for hours. The point is, the education system, especially the higher education system in the United States sucks big juicy donkey balls.
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On July 12 2015 00:05 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 00:01 Ovid wrote:On July 11 2015 23:42 mierin wrote:On July 11 2015 22:20 Ovid wrote:On July 11 2015 21:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 11 2015 21:03 FFGenerations wrote:
so the job is actually ok then? almost all of my jobs i've pretty much wanted to kill myself after a few months
have you yet thought about going back into education?
mega congrats Not a tiny bit. My feelings on advanced education have not changed. A college degree has no use for me since I don't plan on ever using it for anything. For the people out there doing computer science, chemistry, physics or pre-med it's different because there is a crapload of jobs out there that that kind of education is very important for. For the vast majority of the rest of us, hard work and initiative are what get us starting positions and experience and competence are what get us promoted. Organized education in that sense has no meaning for us. It's all just a farce to keep us in school, keeping teachers employed and getting schools their funding. Besides, anything I could ever learn or want to learn is available on the internet now anyway. That's a quick summary of how I feel about it all and why I quit. I wanted to enjoy school just for the sake of education and knowledge but eventually I learned that that kind of mentality is as archaic and old school as a 4 pool Zergling rush. That's foolish and short sighted of you. In the UK and I'm sure it's similar enough to the US degree graduates earn aprox £12k ($18k) more than the people who don't. I'm assuming your still living at home and don't have any money related responsibilities. I also fail to see what career progression barwork has? I was kicked out of school at 12/13 I have only just now been given the opportunity to take my A levels so hopefully in 2/3 years I will be in university. I was working at a warehouse on £7.40 an hour with progression to around £8 in the same job and progression to better paying jobs within that system. The point I'm making is that sort of work is great short term but consider going back to further education longterm it is helpful (assuming you're taking a valid degree cause with good career paths, no david beckham studies) You're hilarious. I have a BS in Mathematics and Physics, got an 800 on the math GREs, etc. etc. I have been from working in a gas station to IT tech support since college, bogged down in debt an unable to find even a slightly decent job using my degrees. America sucks ass when it comes to college and getting anything done with your life. Maybe it's different in the UK, but I'm jealous of the OP. I have 2 paperweights worth about 40k I'd gladly send back to the school for a refund. How am I hilarious, I'm just going off my experience and the statistics (UK based knowledge not US) so that probably explains the differing views. I vaguely remember a quote from some high flying businessman that said he often preferred people with a 2:1 over a 1st because they invariably were better people persons. Whatever report you're pulling that from is immensely outdated. The American workforce is overeducated. It's a problem everywhere. We all go to college and most of us don''t even have a purpose for it. Bachelor's degrees mean virtually nill. Student loan debt is a massive problem. I could go on for hours. The point is, the education system, especially the higher education system in the United States sucks big juicy donkey balls.
I said my stats are UK based not US.....
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On July 11 2015 23:42 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 22:20 Ovid wrote:On July 11 2015 21:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 11 2015 21:03 FFGenerations wrote:
so the job is actually ok then? almost all of my jobs i've pretty much wanted to kill myself after a few months
have you yet thought about going back into education?
mega congrats Not a tiny bit. My feelings on advanced education have not changed. A college degree has no use for me since I don't plan on ever using it for anything. For the people out there doing computer science, chemistry, physics or pre-med it's different because there is a crapload of jobs out there that that kind of education is very important for. For the vast majority of the rest of us, hard work and initiative are what get us starting positions and experience and competence are what get us promoted. Organized education in that sense has no meaning for us. It's all just a farce to keep us in school, keeping teachers employed and getting schools their funding. Besides, anything I could ever learn or want to learn is available on the internet now anyway. That's a quick summary of how I feel about it all and why I quit. I wanted to enjoy school just for the sake of education and knowledge but eventually I learned that that kind of mentality is as archaic and old school as a 4 pool Zergling rush. That's foolish and short sighted of you. In the UK and I'm sure it's similar enough to the US degree graduates earn aprox £12k ($18k) more than the people who don't. I'm assuming your still living at home and don't have any money related responsibilities. I also fail to see what career progression barwork has? I was kicked out of school at 12/13 I have only just now been given the opportunity to take my A levels so hopefully in 2/3 years I will be in university. I was working at a warehouse on £7.40 an hour with progression to around £8 in the same job and progression to better paying jobs within that system. The point I'm making is that sort of work is great short term but consider going back to further education longterm it is helpful (assuming you're taking a valid degree cause with good career paths, no david beckham studies) You're hilarious. I have a BS in Mathematics and Physics, got an 800 on the math GREs, etc. etc. I have been from working in a gas station to IT tech support since college, bogged down in debt an unable to find even a slightly decent job using my degrees. America sucks ass when it comes to college and getting anything done with your life. Maybe it's different in the UK, but I'm jealous of the OP. I have 2 paperweights worth about 40k I'd gladly send back to the school for a refund.
you shoulda went to the University of Waterloo dawg.
you only ever have to save up for 4 months worth of school at a time
you don't have to take any physics... u get a Bachelor of Mathematics and have 2+ years of full time work experience with 4 different employers and if you're smart about it you graduate with zero debt.
half the guys i graduated with are independent consultants.
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On July 12 2015 00:05 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 00:01 Ovid wrote:On July 11 2015 23:42 mierin wrote:On July 11 2015 22:20 Ovid wrote:On July 11 2015 21:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 11 2015 21:03 FFGenerations wrote:
so the job is actually ok then? almost all of my jobs i've pretty much wanted to kill myself after a few months
have you yet thought about going back into education?
mega congrats Not a tiny bit. My feelings on advanced education have not changed. A college degree has no use for me since I don't plan on ever using it for anything. For the people out there doing computer science, chemistry, physics or pre-med it's different because there is a crapload of jobs out there that that kind of education is very important for. For the vast majority of the rest of us, hard work and initiative are what get us starting positions and experience and competence are what get us promoted. Organized education in that sense has no meaning for us. It's all just a farce to keep us in school, keeping teachers employed and getting schools their funding. Besides, anything I could ever learn or want to learn is available on the internet now anyway. That's a quick summary of how I feel about it all and why I quit. I wanted to enjoy school just for the sake of education and knowledge but eventually I learned that that kind of mentality is as archaic and old school as a 4 pool Zergling rush. That's foolish and short sighted of you. In the UK and I'm sure it's similar enough to the US degree graduates earn aprox £12k ($18k) more than the people who don't. I'm assuming your still living at home and don't have any money related responsibilities. I also fail to see what career progression barwork has? I was kicked out of school at 12/13 I have only just now been given the opportunity to take my A levels so hopefully in 2/3 years I will be in university. I was working at a warehouse on £7.40 an hour with progression to around £8 in the same job and progression to better paying jobs within that system. The point I'm making is that sort of work is great short term but consider going back to further education longterm it is helpful (assuming you're taking a valid degree cause with good career paths, no david beckham studies) You're hilarious. I have a BS in Mathematics and Physics, got an 800 on the math GREs, etc. etc. I have been from working in a gas station to IT tech support since college, bogged down in debt an unable to find even a slightly decent job using my degrees. America sucks ass when it comes to college and getting anything done with your life. Maybe it's different in the UK, but I'm jealous of the OP. I have 2 paperweights worth about 40k I'd gladly send back to the school for a refund. How am I hilarious, I'm just going off my experience and the statistics (UK based knowledge not US) so that probably explains the differing views. I vaguely remember a quote from some high flying businessman that said he often preferred people with a 2:1 over a 1st because they invariably were better people persons. Whatever report you're pulling that from is immensely outdated. The American workforce is overeducated. It's a problem everywhere. We all go to college and most of us don''t even have a purpose for it. Bachelor's degrees mean virtually nill. Student loan debt is a massive problem. I could go on for hours. The point is, the education system, especially the higher education system in the United States sucks big juicy donkey balls.
Do you have stats on the uselessness of bachelor degrees? Or are we to take the opinions of a barback on education at face value? The experiences of your friends don't count.
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Bachelor's degrees aren't useless, but neither they are for everyone. It's a waste of time and money to study something if you don't have a definite interest in a specific field that you are willing to commit to; there are plenty of jobs in the world you can do without a degree and make comfortable money doing, and there's nothing wrong with working for any length of time before you decide on a long-term career path (or go on with your life without one).
Also, in most fields nowadays work experience counts for much more than a degree. Being a software developer with good references and 3-4 years of actual coding experience will get you way ahead of any fresh CompSci graduate. Of course there are jobs you'll have a very tough time getting into without a degree or learning to do without attending a university, but that's neither here nor there in regards to this discussion.
Being well-educated is a great thing -- but you don't need a formal degree to achieve that, and again, not everyone enjoys learning for the sake of it and there is nothing wrong with that.
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On July 11 2015 23:32 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 23:17 Ovid wrote:On July 11 2015 22:34 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 11 2015 22:20 Ovid wrote:On July 11 2015 21:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 11 2015 21:03 FFGenerations wrote:
so the job is actually ok then? almost all of my jobs i've pretty much wanted to kill myself after a few months
have you yet thought about going back into education?
mega congrats Not a tiny bit. My feelings on advanced education have not changed. A college degree has no use for me since I don't plan on ever using it for anything. For the people out there doing computer science, chemistry, physics or pre-med it's different because there is a crapload of jobs out there that that kind of education is very important for. For the vast majority of the rest of us, hard work and initiative are what get us starting positions and experience and competence are what get us promoted. Organized education in that sense has no meaning for us. It's all just a farce to keep us in school, keeping teachers employed and getting schools their funding. Besides, anything I could ever learn or want to learn is available on the internet now anyway. That's a quick summary of how I feel about it all and why I quit. I wanted to enjoy school just for the sake of education and knowledge but eventually I learned that that kind of mentality is as archaic and old school as a 4 pool Zergling rush. That's foolish and short sighted of you. In the UK and I'm sure it's similar enough to the US degree graduates earn aprox £12k ($18k) more than the people who don't. I'm assuming your still living at home and don't have any money related responsibilities. I also fail to see what career progression barwork has? I was kicked out of school at 12/13 I have only just now been given the opportunity to take my A levels so hopefully in 2/3 years I will be in university. I was working at a warehouse on £7.40 an hour with progression to around £8 in the same job and progression to better paying jobs within that system. The point I'm making is that sort of work is great short term but consider going back to further education longterm it is helpful (assuming you're taking a valid degree cause with good career paths, no david beckham studies) I've done the math already. My college major was sociology. I studied it because I enjoyed it, not because I was after the money. At my current job I make right now with only a year's worth of experience about 45k per year before taxes. That is as much as I could hope to earn after a 6-12 month internship at one of various non-profits where that kind of degree is useful. I suppose I could go back to school, pursue a career in a science if earning a salary was all I was after. However; that is not my forte. I enjoy what I currently do. My education in Social Science has meaning in what I currently do. I earn enough money to live on my own with all of the financial responsibilities of such (I do my own finances and am planning currently how and when to move out on my own atm.) already. Why go back to school then? There is the possibility that the lustre of what I am currently doing fades, but then I will make a decision to change careers then and not now. Right now, I am enjoying the actual fact that I am a working member of society. I have held jobs before that I have not enjoyed, this is the first in a long while that I have. If I were to give advice to anyone, I would tell them to do what they enjoy, not what they think will get them more money. Chasing after money in my opinion is the easiest way to end up doing something you either hate or are not good at. If you do something you like to do, eventually (if you are good at it) you will make good money doing it. It all depends on circumstance, luck, and drive. Education doesn't matter for a large part of it. Also for your information, there is actually a LOT of career progression for bar work. Distributors and manufacturers frequently employ seasoned bar workers to their service to either a: promote their product or b: help with marketing their product via specialized cocktail programs. These kinds of cushy high paying jobs are referred to in this industry as rep jobs, and they pay very well for very little work required. There are other such dream jobs, that is but one example. They are not very common admittedly, but they do exist. The higher end of these kinds of gigs pay ridiculous amounts of money. Do not ever underestimate the financial power of the American Vice Economy. It's a very real thing. Not underestimating the value of the American Vice Economy but usually that money doesn't fall into the hands of the low level providers rather than owners of the establishments. Secondly how much is that after tax roughly, UK and US have very different taxes, secondly £28k is a lot of money for a barman in the UK it's around £12k-18k and for "fancy" cocktail bars in london average is only £25k. How many hours are you putting in? You don't currently live by yourself so even if you have worked out how much it would cost and think you can afford it your still not at that stage so you can't really say if it's a solid job for future life. It could be that my moving out workings are based on a much higher price of living. (average rent where I am for a 1/2bed flat is £800-£1k a month 120k to buy a flat with moldy walls/damp 150k for a normal flat 300k for a terraced 2/3bed 4 bed detached £550k 5 bed detached £600-£1mil+, then the insurance for a car for me would be around £1k not mention road tax and fuel at £1.20 a litre) You won't have money for holidays or to buy anything expensive as a treat (without loads of saving) you will just have enough to exist. You don't have to go back to Sociology nor do you need to go for a specialised science degree for the insane levels of money, I'm sure there's a degree that would lead to work you'd enjoy/be good at that pays more than to just exist. I just did a bit of reading about Barman and it's a very different job to what it is in the UK but I just don't see it being stable after the age of 30. All I'm saying is keep education on your radar. I am putting in roughly 50 hours per week. It's a lot, by most standards I understand that. It is why the "enjoy what I am doing" part. comes in to play so often in my argument. There's no way in hell that I would ever work this many hours doing a job I didn't enjoy, of that I can assure you. As far as your specific financial information goes. I currently live in Los Angeles, it is both one of the best cities in the world for the trade I am currently practicing, and simultaneously one of the worst markets in the world for anyone seeking to rent or buy which is why I am still living at home at the house I grew up in (which I bike to work from just by the way.) It is not an easy market to find somewhere affordable to live. My current project right now is to gather friends and family to pull incomes together to purchase a house and share it rather than try and rent a place somewhere and throw money away at it. The idea for me is that in 10-20 years time, I can work doing what I like also making supplemental income through real estate started through my family's trust and then managed by my brothers and I. Like I said. My finances are not something that I just leave to chance. I have a lot of information to work with for how to plan for the future and for me, this is what currently makes sense for both what I want and for what makes sense for the other members of my family.
Actually, 50 hours is slightly above average in the United States for those who work full time (~47 hours is typical).
I have a good friend who did something similar in terms of purchasing a house and living with his friends who pay rent/utilities to him. He's been doing it for about 3 years and has cut a ton from his mortgage and should own it outright in 10-15 years depending on when his friends move out. As this is near Boston, it's pretty impressive.
And to some posters above, the issue isn't that BA/BS degrees are useless (though some are)...It's that some people are shortsighted in what they decide to major in and do not realize what the actual job prospects are, especially for some of the humanities and social sciences. I work at a university teaching upper level undergraduates and its amazing how many have no clue what they want to do after they graduate or even what field they're interested in. Unless you want to get into social work of some sort or go on to a PhD, a sociology degree doesn't get you very far these days.
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EPT
