• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:51
CET 11:51
KST 19:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)1Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win2RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge2[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket
Tourneys
[Alpha Pro Series] Nice vs Cure Tenacious Turtle Tussle RSL Revival: Season 3 $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death
Brood War
General
Which season is the best in ASL? Data analysis on 70 million replays FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft 2v2 maps which are SC2 style with teams together?
Tourneys
[BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group B - Sun 21:00 CET [BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group A - Sat 21:00 CET
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread The Perfect Game Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Health Impact of Joining…
TrAiDoS
Dyadica Evangelium — Chapt…
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2180 users

My thoughts on LOTV Beta

Blogs > AssyrianKing
Post a Reply
AssyrianKing
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia2116 Posts
June 10 2015 03:10 GMT
#1
Posted this in Blizzard Forums:

I have been following the updates on the beta and I would like to share my thoughts.

Terran:

After hearing discussion with a lot of Terrans, it would be better if the existing units we already have get a boost.
One thing which has been continuously discussed is the Siege Tank. Ever since the damage nerf on the tank, it has been underwhelming for a long time. Earlier in the game, maps were much smaller and may I say, not as well designed, and with the short distance from both players bases the tank was rightfully nerfed. But now, with the maps being larger and better designed, I feel like the old tank before Patch 8 ((version 0.10.0.14803) (except with 50 damage) can be tested again, and a lot of players would love to see this change that they have been waiting for a long time. I also feel the new ability in HOTS to pick up tanks when sieged as a Terran player, is highly overpowered and unfair to the other races.

Another thing greatly discussed over the years is the Ghost. A lot of Terrans feel that it's damage was greatly nerfed. A prominent feature that we had was the ability to go Ghost First in TvT, giving an advantage over the opponent just using marines, but was then completely ruined by the harsh ghost nerf. In my opinion a small buff could be given to the ghost and be trialed in order to open this sort of strategy again.

If this change comes to the siege tank, I feel that the cyclone is not a needed unit, and most people I have talked to have expressed negativity towards this unit, just because of the simple OP and easy design it has. Also I feel that the liberator is also not needed as Terran's already have the Raven's seeker missile to use. This sort of unit was great in BW (Valkyrie) because the Wraith was a poor Air vs Air unit, therefore the Valkyrie was needed in order to have proper anti-air.

One cool feature that could be added are more abilities to the Raven, specifically abilities LIKE Irradiate or defensive matrix, not exactly them, but maybe similar, such as what has been done with blinding cloud. Also, a new defensive structure would be a great idea, as the other races have automatic defense structures, and it would be a nice addition to the Terran, maybe something like a Anti-Ground battery, Flame Thrower, Laser, etc. (Obviously it would be more expensive)

Zerg:
As I am not a Zerg player, I can not really comment in a way which represents other Zerg players, but I will share my thoughts nonetheless.

The one thing that has always bothered me is the Corruptor. In BW, the zerg had a fun type of suicide unit in the scourge, with a powerful anti air in the Devourer, but the corruptor just feels like a stock standard hard anti-air counter unit with no special use. It doesn't have Vikings ability to stutter back or land, it doesn't have Phoenix's micro mechanic or the Void Ray's interesting design. Therefore I feel like a better designed Anti-Air unit for the Zerg would be something they would appreciate.

One more thing is the Lurker's attack sound. Compared to BW's great sound effect which scared the player and gave the audience excitement whenever the scary noise of spikes coming from underneath the ground, the HOTS sound of a quiet sliver is extremely underwhelming. This is common with a lot of the zerg units, who sound much less scarier then they did in BW.

Protoss:
Same with Zerg, I am not a protoss player, so will only share my thoughts.

Firstly, this has been greatly discussed, the carrier. The new Release Interceptors ability is wonderful and the ability to leash the interceptors. But one more thing the Carrier needs is the ability for all the interceptors to heal once they return to the carrier. As you know, DPS in Starcraft 2 is much higher compared to BW. Therefore I believe this ability is even more needed in the former then it was needed in the latter.

One thing also discussed by almost every protoss. Is that Gateways (not warpgates) have slightly quicker build times, for players who wish to use Gateways instead in a viable way. It would be a great feature for Protoss players to have the ability to choose one or the other. I know this might be potentially overpowering with Chrono Boost, but I am sure some sort of balance can be found.

On a more personal note, I feel the design of the colossus since it's inception is quite... Crappy ? Laser Wars is almost never fun to watch or play, but I actually don't know how to replace this sort of unit. Personally I think it should be removed, but I am not a protoss player and can't really comment.

Thanks for reading, please please please discuss.
P.S Protoss Mind Control ? :D

*
John 15:13
MaestroSC
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2073 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-11 00:56:01
June 11 2015 00:49 GMT
#2
I feel like its really easy to get everyones general opinion of LotV... just look at the stream numbers it pulls.

Anyone who had any lingering hope for rekindling their interest in SC2... im pretty sure has lost it by now..since the general design/flow of the game has still not gotten the overhaul a lot of people want.

200/200 Colossus armies/BroodLords/MMM games are tired and boring..and noone likes them.

Nerf terran early units..buff their mech units.

Get rid of Colossus/Broodlord, sentries bring back a strong gateway unit/units for Protoss

Warpgates are still stupid... it still makes 0 sense as a concept. It SHOULD BE Gateways build faster..warpgates build slower but you can build them offensively via pylons/mobile pylon flying ship whose name i cant remember

Zerg finally got lurkers...but it still doesnt really make sense..as u still need banelings for the early game 90% of the time..so now we have 2 units that counter the same thing.

Make the maps bigger and more spreadout..not every base needs 2 easy expansions and a easy to block choke point if the map is bigger and more spreadout.

This whole "Hmm the difference between League and SC2..is in SC2 you have to build workers and mine minerals... so lets DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF WORKERS SO WE CAN GET TO THE DEATHBALL EXPLOSIONFEST FASTER"... no.
Stop trying to turn a strategy game into a Michael Bay Film... we dont want one and done 'massive explosions' fights... we want skirmishes, positioning, mindgaming, etc... its a strategy game ffs.

Noone has ever been like "Man... know what I hate about SC2? I wish you started with more workers.. so you can sit in your base until you have a 200/200 army even faster!"

BW was so incredibly popular for YEARS and had a WAY more longstanding success than SC2.. and it had nothing to do with the early game being faster... if anything.. BW early game was slower..which promoted players to try early game shenanigans because you had more downtime to efficiently micro, and be out on the map.

The design team is clearly 100% lost..on what to deliver.

For years they have been out to show then can design a better game than BW..and trying to avoid copying it..but they are just slowly adding more and more BW mechanics/units... after failing to innovate anything worth innovating for years now.

Currently.. it seems like Blizzard thinks the way to fix the game is just start both players with Max resources and saying "GO!".. and it just makes my head spin...

Every game of SC2 for the past however many years is exactly the same "And now we see the protoss fast expanding.. and now trying to take a 3rd..hes building colossus.. and now he is moving out!"
"The Terran is loading up his marines and marauders into medivacs, lets see what he can get done with this drop"
"The Zerg is just trying to hold on, and get to Hive tech so he can get out those flying defilers/broodlords/ ultralisks when he feels like losing instead of even trying to win"

Every game for years.

meh..this just makes me sad.

Im sure Ill get hate for the "this isnt BW..get over it" type of comments.. tho 90% of those people are gone from TL/SC2 now and have moved on since the game is so stale..

YokoKano
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States612 Posts
June 11 2015 18:17 GMT
#3
Yeah you are 100% right that if gateways were stronger, could stop forge rush, could reasonably defend rushes and was somewhat versatile, maybe some upgrade to cost less.

Warp Gate is like Tier 2 Gate Way, warps faster and warps. Maybe there could be two upgrades...

One is Warp Gate... like Tech Lab

Another is Aiur Gate (lost tech from Aiur)... Could create units more efficiently thanks to some Aiur Crystal. Maybe 30% or 40% cost reduction of units for players who want to expansion.
IQ 155.905638752
PlayArcher
Profile Joined January 2011
Russian Federation20 Posts
June 11 2015 22:54 GMT
#4
My thought are Blizzard after 5 years learn nothing, their game dying and they helping it to die. They didnt learn how to balance and introduce new units like it was in early wol with Reapers - they doing op sheet unit, they nerfing it to the ground making not usefull. And now history repeats they adding addepts which fukung every single zerg without chance, new balls which destroy half of zerg army which u canT split because their speed 2x faster then zerg army on creep.

Nerfing swarm hosts and adding liberators, 6 of them killing 30 mutas in single blow and making zergs cry vs every Mech terran.

Im not saying making balance is easy thing but u have 6k almost useless ppl in ur company and u can fix balance a Li tt le bit faster, but u prefer to make some new skins for hots heroes. Except of make perfect balanced game in cybersport like it was in bw u just leeching moneys with new shit ty stuff. gj blizz.

PS: And yeah im not silver, i was top ml and later gml player zerg.
RoomOfMush
Profile Joined March 2015
1296 Posts
June 12 2015 10:31 GMT
#5
Maybe have a look at this SC2 mod I made recently, it covers most of the things that you guys said. Perhaps you can play a couple of games and see whether it improves anything or not:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/485664-sc2-custom-craft
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
09:00
WardiTV Mondays #61
CranKy Ducklings138
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 168
ProTech19
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 1733
Horang2 1025
Flash 545
Barracks 486
Shuttle 461
Mini 259
Soma 220
Backho 202
Hyun 176
Light 125
[ Show more ]
Last 123
Pusan 113
ggaemo 85
Dewaltoss 70
Rush 70
ZerO 66
NotJumperer 62
ToSsGirL 49
sorry 49
Mind 42
Snow 36
soO 34
ajuk12(nOOB) 22
hero 16
Terrorterran 11
Noble 10
Hm[arnc] 10
zelot 7
SilentControl 7
Dota 2
XcaliburYe190
singsing81
League of Legends
JimRising 301
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2155
Other Games
summit1g13487
ceh9740
Fuzer 278
QueenE40
B2W.Neo39
crisheroes28
Trikslyr17
ZerO(Twitch)10
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick683
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream248
Other Games
BasetradeTV46
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH166
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2592
• lizZardDota259
League of Legends
• Jankos1919
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
1h 9m
OSC
2h 9m
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
13h 9m
The PondCast
23h 9m
Replay Cast
1d 12h
OSC
2 days
LAN Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

SOOP Univ League 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.