• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:29
CEST 23:29
KST 06:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview17Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL46Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th10Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26Code S RO12 Results + RO8 Groups (2025 Season 2)3Weekly Cups (May 19-25): Hindsight is 20/20?0
StarCraft 2
General
Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th Serious Question: Mech
Tourneys
Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 $25,000+ WardiTV 2025 Series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOP Starcraft Global #21 $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void
Brood War
General
Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu BW General Discussion BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Battle.net is not working
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Monster Hunter Wilds Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Research study on team perfo…
TrAiDoS
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 18120 users

My thoughts on LOTV Beta

Blogs > AssyrianKing
Post a Reply
AssyrianKing
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia2111 Posts
June 10 2015 03:10 GMT
#1
Posted this in Blizzard Forums:

I have been following the updates on the beta and I would like to share my thoughts.

Terran:

After hearing discussion with a lot of Terrans, it would be better if the existing units we already have get a boost.
One thing which has been continuously discussed is the Siege Tank. Ever since the damage nerf on the tank, it has been underwhelming for a long time. Earlier in the game, maps were much smaller and may I say, not as well designed, and with the short distance from both players bases the tank was rightfully nerfed. But now, with the maps being larger and better designed, I feel like the old tank before Patch 8 ((version 0.10.0.14803) (except with 50 damage) can be tested again, and a lot of players would love to see this change that they have been waiting for a long time. I also feel the new ability in HOTS to pick up tanks when sieged as a Terran player, is highly overpowered and unfair to the other races.

Another thing greatly discussed over the years is the Ghost. A lot of Terrans feel that it's damage was greatly nerfed. A prominent feature that we had was the ability to go Ghost First in TvT, giving an advantage over the opponent just using marines, but was then completely ruined by the harsh ghost nerf. In my opinion a small buff could be given to the ghost and be trialed in order to open this sort of strategy again.

If this change comes to the siege tank, I feel that the cyclone is not a needed unit, and most people I have talked to have expressed negativity towards this unit, just because of the simple OP and easy design it has. Also I feel that the liberator is also not needed as Terran's already have the Raven's seeker missile to use. This sort of unit was great in BW (Valkyrie) because the Wraith was a poor Air vs Air unit, therefore the Valkyrie was needed in order to have proper anti-air.

One cool feature that could be added are more abilities to the Raven, specifically abilities LIKE Irradiate or defensive matrix, not exactly them, but maybe similar, such as what has been done with blinding cloud. Also, a new defensive structure would be a great idea, as the other races have automatic defense structures, and it would be a nice addition to the Terran, maybe something like a Anti-Ground battery, Flame Thrower, Laser, etc. (Obviously it would be more expensive)

Zerg:
As I am not a Zerg player, I can not really comment in a way which represents other Zerg players, but I will share my thoughts nonetheless.

The one thing that has always bothered me is the Corruptor. In BW, the zerg had a fun type of suicide unit in the scourge, with a powerful anti air in the Devourer, but the corruptor just feels like a stock standard hard anti-air counter unit with no special use. It doesn't have Vikings ability to stutter back or land, it doesn't have Phoenix's micro mechanic or the Void Ray's interesting design. Therefore I feel like a better designed Anti-Air unit for the Zerg would be something they would appreciate.

One more thing is the Lurker's attack sound. Compared to BW's great sound effect which scared the player and gave the audience excitement whenever the scary noise of spikes coming from underneath the ground, the HOTS sound of a quiet sliver is extremely underwhelming. This is common with a lot of the zerg units, who sound much less scarier then they did in BW.

Protoss:
Same with Zerg, I am not a protoss player, so will only share my thoughts.

Firstly, this has been greatly discussed, the carrier. The new Release Interceptors ability is wonderful and the ability to leash the interceptors. But one more thing the Carrier needs is the ability for all the interceptors to heal once they return to the carrier. As you know, DPS in Starcraft 2 is much higher compared to BW. Therefore I believe this ability is even more needed in the former then it was needed in the latter.

One thing also discussed by almost every protoss. Is that Gateways (not warpgates) have slightly quicker build times, for players who wish to use Gateways instead in a viable way. It would be a great feature for Protoss players to have the ability to choose one or the other. I know this might be potentially overpowering with Chrono Boost, but I am sure some sort of balance can be found.

On a more personal note, I feel the design of the colossus since it's inception is quite... Crappy ? Laser Wars is almost never fun to watch or play, but I actually don't know how to replace this sort of unit. Personally I think it should be removed, but I am not a protoss player and can't really comment.

Thanks for reading, please please please discuss.
P.S Protoss Mind Control ? :D

*
John 15:13
MaestroSC
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2073 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-11 00:56:01
June 11 2015 00:49 GMT
#2
I feel like its really easy to get everyones general opinion of LotV... just look at the stream numbers it pulls.

Anyone who had any lingering hope for rekindling their interest in SC2... im pretty sure has lost it by now..since the general design/flow of the game has still not gotten the overhaul a lot of people want.

200/200 Colossus armies/BroodLords/MMM games are tired and boring..and noone likes them.

Nerf terran early units..buff their mech units.

Get rid of Colossus/Broodlord, sentries bring back a strong gateway unit/units for Protoss

Warpgates are still stupid... it still makes 0 sense as a concept. It SHOULD BE Gateways build faster..warpgates build slower but you can build them offensively via pylons/mobile pylon flying ship whose name i cant remember

Zerg finally got lurkers...but it still doesnt really make sense..as u still need banelings for the early game 90% of the time..so now we have 2 units that counter the same thing.

Make the maps bigger and more spreadout..not every base needs 2 easy expansions and a easy to block choke point if the map is bigger and more spreadout.

This whole "Hmm the difference between League and SC2..is in SC2 you have to build workers and mine minerals... so lets DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF WORKERS SO WE CAN GET TO THE DEATHBALL EXPLOSIONFEST FASTER"... no.
Stop trying to turn a strategy game into a Michael Bay Film... we dont want one and done 'massive explosions' fights... we want skirmishes, positioning, mindgaming, etc... its a strategy game ffs.

Noone has ever been like "Man... know what I hate about SC2? I wish you started with more workers.. so you can sit in your base until you have a 200/200 army even faster!"

BW was so incredibly popular for YEARS and had a WAY more longstanding success than SC2.. and it had nothing to do with the early game being faster... if anything.. BW early game was slower..which promoted players to try early game shenanigans because you had more downtime to efficiently micro, and be out on the map.

The design team is clearly 100% lost..on what to deliver.

For years they have been out to show then can design a better game than BW..and trying to avoid copying it..but they are just slowly adding more and more BW mechanics/units... after failing to innovate anything worth innovating for years now.

Currently.. it seems like Blizzard thinks the way to fix the game is just start both players with Max resources and saying "GO!".. and it just makes my head spin...

Every game of SC2 for the past however many years is exactly the same "And now we see the protoss fast expanding.. and now trying to take a 3rd..hes building colossus.. and now he is moving out!"
"The Terran is loading up his marines and marauders into medivacs, lets see what he can get done with this drop"
"The Zerg is just trying to hold on, and get to Hive tech so he can get out those flying defilers/broodlords/ ultralisks when he feels like losing instead of even trying to win"

Every game for years.

meh..this just makes me sad.

Im sure Ill get hate for the "this isnt BW..get over it" type of comments.. tho 90% of those people are gone from TL/SC2 now and have moved on since the game is so stale..

YokoKano
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States612 Posts
June 11 2015 18:17 GMT
#3
Yeah you are 100% right that if gateways were stronger, could stop forge rush, could reasonably defend rushes and was somewhat versatile, maybe some upgrade to cost less.

Warp Gate is like Tier 2 Gate Way, warps faster and warps. Maybe there could be two upgrades...

One is Warp Gate... like Tech Lab

Another is Aiur Gate (lost tech from Aiur)... Could create units more efficiently thanks to some Aiur Crystal. Maybe 30% or 40% cost reduction of units for players who want to expansion.
IQ 155.905638752
PlayArcher
Profile Joined January 2011
Russian Federation20 Posts
June 11 2015 22:54 GMT
#4
My thought are Blizzard after 5 years learn nothing, their game dying and they helping it to die. They didnt learn how to balance and introduce new units like it was in early wol with Reapers - they doing op sheet unit, they nerfing it to the ground making not usefull. And now history repeats they adding addepts which fukung every single zerg without chance, new balls which destroy half of zerg army which u canT split because their speed 2x faster then zerg army on creep.

Nerfing swarm hosts and adding liberators, 6 of them killing 30 mutas in single blow and making zergs cry vs every Mech terran.

Im not saying making balance is easy thing but u have 6k almost useless ppl in ur company and u can fix balance a Li tt le bit faster, but u prefer to make some new skins for hots heroes. Except of make perfect balanced game in cybersport like it was in bw u just leeching moneys with new shit ty stuff. gj blizz.

PS: And yeah im not silver, i was top ml and later gml player zerg.
RoomOfMush
Profile Joined March 2015
1296 Posts
June 12 2015 10:31 GMT
#5
Maybe have a look at this SC2 mod I made recently, it covers most of the things that you guys said. Perhaps you can play a couple of games and see whether it improves anything or not:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/485664-sc2-custom-craft
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12h 32m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 178
ForJumy 101
StarCraft: Brood War
MaD[AoV]63
Dota 2
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m6737
Foxcn731
flusha207
Stewie2K79
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0555
hungrybox249
Mew2King68
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby3779
Liquid`Hasu507
Other Games
summit1g7052
FrodaN1240
elazer355
Pyrionflax92
Trikslyr80
ZombieGrub65
ViBE54
Tefel4
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream1097
Other Games
BasetradeTV25
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta37
• musti20045 29
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 53
• Eskiya23 14
• FirePhoenix2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21316
League of Legends
• Doublelift4973
• TFBlade1378
• Shiphtur505
Other Games
• imaqtpie1313
• Scarra586
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
12h 32m
Bellum Gens Elite
13h 32m
WardiTV Invitational
13h 32m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
OSC
1d 2h
Bellum Gens Elite
1d 13h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 16h
BSL 2v2 ProLeague
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
[ Show More ]
SC Evo League
2 days
Bellum Gens Elite
2 days
Fire Grow Cup
2 days
CSO Contender
2 days
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
StRyKeR vs MadiNho
Cross vs UltrA
TT1 vs JDConan
Bonyth vs Sziky
Replay Cast
3 days
SOOP Global
3 days
Creator vs Rogue
Cure vs Classic
SOOP
3 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
AllThingsProtoss
3 days
Fire Grow Cup
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
3 days
HBO vs Doodle
spx vs Tech
DragOn vs Hawk
Dewalt vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
GSL Code S
6 days
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
2025 GSL S2
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.