[A] SC2 Custom Craft

RoomOfMush

1296 Posts

May 17 2015 08:15 GMT

SC2 CustomCraft

Published on: EU, NA, SEA, KR
To play this mod search for SC2 CustomCraft.

If you want to give feedback, but you dont have a TL account, you can also write an email to: sc2CustomCraft@gmail.com

Introduction

(Uses TL-Double Harvest)
+ Show Spoiler +

With the LotV beta under way and the interest in HotS dwindling there has been much talk about balance lately, especially, that many people are disappointed by how Blizzard is driving the balance of the game. SC2 seems to evolve in a direction away from strategic thinking and tactical decision making and more towards quick reactions and APM intensive spell spamming.

Instead of giving up on the game, or sitting back and crying about balance all day, I decided to take things into my own hands. For this purpose I was reading countless pages of balance discussion that was taking place over the last few months. Many TL members have voiced their opinions about what should be changed and how and I have taken some of the more popular ideas, as well as some of my own, and combined them in one mod.

I hope you can enjoy this little project of mine and I would be happy to see others join in as well and leave constructive comments and criticism.
I also welcome anybody who would like to join me in this endeavor and help me battle against the Galaxy Editor to make this mod perfect.

Why not just play StarBow?

+ Show Spoiler +

StarBow is vastly different to this project. The goal of StarBow is to create a *different* Starcraft 2 that is more similar to brood war but with SC2 elements mixed in here and there. This mod tries to stay much more faithful to the original Starcraft 2 balancing and unit roster.
This mod will not become a nostalgia fest and it will not try to introduce completely new units that have never been seen before; instead it will try to tweak the balance of already existing units and mix up abilities and upgrades.

And yes, a little bit of BW has been brought back but I promise its not too much.

The Changes

All ranged ground units shooting uphill (at ground targets) deal 33% less damage.

The attack ranges of many units were reduced to discourage death balls; at the same time, the power of splash damage has been increased. A-moving a large ball of units will probably not be a good idea in this mod.

The build times of all fighting units have also been increased by about 10% - 15%. This was done to give you more opportunity to use the units you have and encourage more macro.

Instead of listing the changes to the original game I will list the new structures, units and upgrades.

Terran:
+ Show Spoiler +

Orbital Command [Requires Academy]
- Now requires the Academy to be build instead of Barracks. You have to actually tech towards this.
- Mules are now the same efficiency as SCV's but they stay 300.0 seconds (5 minutes) and cost 0 supply.
Drop-Pod Silo [Requires Fusion Core]
- Can load up to 8 terran biological units
- Can instantly drop all loaded units at any visible point on the map
- Dropping costs 100 minerals no matter how many units you drop
- When units are dropped with drop pods they take 10 damage each; units can not die from this damage

Terran bio has been changed to be less of a deathball army and more of a mobile harassment army. For this purpose marines and marauders have become more fragile and medivacs were removed entirely, instead medics have been added and cheaper dropships. Ghosts have also been remade to be more useful. In addition to that Terran has access to orbital Drop-Pods to drop bio units anywhere on the map.

Marine
Almost the same as in HotS.
- Has no more Combat Shield upgrade.
Marauder [Requires Tech-Lab]
Is now cheaper, more fragile but still as powerful as before in terms of raw DPS.
- Costs 75 minerals, 25 gas, 1 supply.
- Cargo size of 1
- Has no more Concussive Shells.
Medic [Requires Academy]
Costs 50 minerals, 50 gas, 1 supply. Has 60 hitpoints, 1 armor and can heal allied bio units nearby.
- Combat Shields [Tech-Lab] can be researched to give medics +20 hitpoints.
- Caduceus Reactor [Academy] can be researched to increase max energy, starting energy and improve the effect of the heal ability.
Ghost [Requires Academy + Tech-Lab]
Costs 125 minerals, 125 gas, 2 supply. Has 100 hitpoints, 1 armor and deals 10 damage + 15 vs. light units with 2.0 seconds cooldown and range of 7 (9 upgraded).
- No more Snipe ability, the basic attack has taken its place.
- EMP now has a missle that is being fired instead of an instant effect.
- No more nukes, instead ghosts can place a G4-Explosive Charge which deals some area of effect damage.
- Cloak [Academy] can be researched for ghosts.
- Ocular Implants [Academy] can be researched for +3 sight range and +2 attack range.

Terran mech has been changed to resemble broodwar mech more closely without being exactly the same. The anti-air capabilities have been improved and the versatility is higher.

Storm Hawk
A very fast moving unit that can shoot ground and air targets while moving but only right in front of it (90° arc).
- Costs 75 minerals, 1 supply. DPS is 7 with range of 6.
- This unit has slow acceleration with high speed and can attack targets in front of it while moving. This gives plenty of micro opportunity because the owner has to move them back and forth to kite enemies.
- The low acceleration of this unit punishes the player for standing still.
Hellion / Hellbat
Is now more expensive to fit better with the rest of the changes.
- Costs 125 minerals, 25 gas, 2 supply.
- The Hellion form is not quite cost effective but can be used to more quickly move the Hellbat form from one place to another.
- Servo Conductor [Tech-Lab + Fusion Core] can be researched to decrease transformation time by 50%
- Attack of the Hellbat is considered melee and can hit targets underneat Dark Cloud.
Siege Tank [Requires Tech-Lab]
Attack power, both in siege and tank mode, has been greatly increased to match the more powerful units and abilities of the opponents.
- Costs 150 minerals, 125 gas, 2 supply.
- Starts with the siege ability unlocked (like in HotS / LotV)
- Servo Conductor [Tech-Lab + Fusion Core] can be researched to decrease siege / unsiege time by 25%
Hoplit [Requires Armory]
A smaller version of the thor with anti-ground gattling guns and anti-air rocket launcher.
- Costs 125 minerals, 75 gas, 2 supply.
- DPS vs ground 11.2, range is 6 (7 upgraded)
- DPS vs air 9.33 (light), 18.66 (armored), range is 6 (8 upgraded)
- Kerberos Booster [Tech-Lab] can be researched for +1 ground attack range, +2 anti-air attack range

Terran air units have been changed to make them less specialized and more versatile. The Raven has been changed greatly to make the abilities more fun to play with and against.

Dropship
Simple dropship with no special abilities besides load / unload. The loading and unloading times have been changed to make dropping both more effective but also more costly in terms of time it takes to load the drop.
- Costs 125 minerals, 25 gas, 1 supply.
- Loading units in now takes 0.25 seconds per unit (was 0.00 in HotS)
- Unloading units now takes 0.25 seconds per unit (was 1.00 in HotS)
Erinys
An upgraded model of the Banshee. This air unit can cloak and is able to attack both ground and air units with its rockets. The Erinys is also much faster then the regular Banshee.
- Costs 100 minerals, 100 gas, 2 supply.
- Cloak [Tech-Lab] can be researched
- DPS is 12.8 with 2 missles
- Less hitpoints then regular Banshee and Armored unit type
Viking [Tech-Lab + Armory]
A more powerful anti-air fighter with a small splash area on its regular attack.
- Deals splash damage within a small area
- Costs 150 minerals, 125 gas, 2 supply.
- DPS is 8.88 (light), 16 (armored) with 4 missles per attack, range of 9 and 0.75 splash
- Servo Conductors [Tech-Lab + Fusion Core] can be researched to speed up assault / fighter mode transformation by 50%.
Raven [Tech-Lab]
Flying support caster for mech.
- HSM and PDD have been removed
- The auto turret is now permanent but each use of the ability costs 25 minerals
- Can place 3 spider mines (75 energy) permanently at target location
- Spider Mines can be turned off / on at will to prepare ambushes against unexpecting enemies
- Repair Drone [Tech-Lab] can be researched. The repair drone can not move and will automatically heal all allied mechanical units within range.
Battle Cruiser [Tech-Lab + Fusion Core]
- Moves much faster now so that it can actually be used
- Much slower but also more powerful attack with a single missle. DPS is 20.

Protoss:
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Protoss has been changed to be less Gimmicky and more powerful in direct engagements.

The Mothership Core was a bandaid unit that was badly designed and not fun to play against, therefore it was removed. Sentries were also quite cumbersome and hard to balance. The Mothership was not as bad but still not too useful. All these have been removed and replaced by a more useful core unit.

Protector [Requires Cybernetics Core]
This unit replaces both the Sentry and the Mothership Core and is build from the Nexus. You can build more then one of these.
- Costs 50 minerals, 75 gas, 2 supply.
- Same attack as mothership core.
- Moves very slowly with low acceleration
- Can cast Hallucination (75 energy)
- Can cast Force Fields with a very short cast range which makes it vulnerable to anti-air.
- Can cast Restore Shields to heal 75 shields of the target protoss unit or structure.
- Bosnic Core [Twilight Council] can be researched to increase the shields of the Protector by 25.
- This unit is very fragile in offense but very useful for defense.

Warp Gate research is now moved to Twilight Council and costs 200 minerals, 200 gas.
The Warp Gate mechanic has also been changed: All units warp in twice as fast but after each warp-in the Warp Gate is on cooldown for 120.0 seconds!
This means that Gateways are more effective for building an army and Warp Gates are only useful if you need to warp in on the battle field / in the enemies base.

Zealot
Almost the same as in WoL and HotS
- Now has 120 hitpoints and 40 shields (instead of 100 hitpoints, 50 shields HotS and 100 hitpoints 60 shields BW)
- Charge upgrade [Twilight Council] gives flat movement speed bonus instead of charge ability. Chargelots are now almost as fast as stimmed Bio.
Immortal [Requires Cybernetics Core]
Replaces the Stalker in the Gateway. Is now a core unit.
- Costs 125 minerals, 50 gas, 2 supply.
- Slower then a HotS stalker, faster then a Zealot.
- DPS is 10.66 (light), 16 (armored) with 6 range (7 upgraded)
- Can attack air
- Singularity Charge (same as for Stalkers) [Cybernetics Core] can be researched for +1 range.
Stalker [Requires Twilight Counsil]
Has become a harassment unit now and require the Twilight Council.
- Costs 150 minerals, 75 gas, 2 supply.
- 50 hitpoints, 0 armor, 90 shields.
- Regular movement is much faster now, almost (but not quite) like Speedlings
- Blink is unlocked right away
- DPS is 9 with 6 range (8 upgraded)
- Singularity Charge (same as for Immortals) [Cybernetics Core] can be researched for +2 range.
High Templar [Requires Templar Archives]
Abilities have changed. Not much else.
- Can cast Revelation (75 energy)
- Psionic Storm [Templar Archives] can be researched. Has larger area of effect and deals more damage but over a longer period of time making it easier to dodge. The High Templar also has a 0.5 seconds delay before he casts storm making it more of a skill shot.
Dark Templar [Requires Dark Shrine]
Has more attack power. Otherwise unchanged.
- Regular damage has been boosted by 10 to make them more useful apart from gimmicky play.
Archon [High Templar or Dark Templar]
Has more attack power. Otherwise unchanged.
- Regular damage has been boosted to 40 (from 25 + 10 vs bio)

Robo is largely unchanged except for the Colossus.

Observer
Unchanged
Warp Prism
Can now drop all units inside immediately (instead of 1.0 seconds wait in between) but has slower acceleration. Pick-up range is the same as in HotS.
Colossus [Requires Robotics Support Bay]
This unit was an A-Move powerhouse which was simply no fun. It was redesigned to reward micro more but punish sloppy play.
- Cost is now 200 minerals, 150 gas, 4 supply.
- Fires its laser beams now in a straight line forward and damages all units (including allies) in its path. One Colossus can not hurt another allied Colossus.
- The laser beams are fairly slow now can give a chance to be evaded by the enemy.
- Damage has been increased to 60 per attack to make up for the more difficult control.
- Range is now 8 (beam goes up to 9) and there is no more thermal lance.
- Can no longer be hit by anti-air attacks

Carrier has been made useful and Oracle has become a support spellcaster.

Phoenix
Mostly unchanged
Void Ray
Is now a more well-rounded unit.
- The prismatic alignment ability has been removed. It was boring.
- Void Rays can now use Prismatic Overcharge ability to boost their attack power by 50% for 10.0 seconds. This ability costs 100 shields to be used!
- Movement speed has been increased
- Hitpoints have been decreased.
Tempest [Requires Fleet Beacon]
Now deals splash damage in a small area of effect. The attack range has been reduced immensely.
Oracle [Requires Fleet Beacon + Dark Shrine]
Is more similar to the Arbiter and a support caster.
- Has no attack.
- Can activate / deactivate a cloaking field around it. Cloaking Field costs energy over time and will deactivate automatically when energy runs out.
- Can Disruption Field (150 energy). This ability disables the attacks of all units within the area of effect but also makes the units invulnerable during that time. Units can move out of the area of effect to not be affected anymore.
- Recall [Dark Shrine] can be researched. Recall works like the WoL Mothership / BW Arbiter version and teleports allied units to the location of the Oracle.
Carrier [Requires Fleet Beacon]
Now has Siege range attack to make it actually useful and give it a purpose.
- Attack range is now 15! This way the Carrier is a Siege unit with good DPS against unarmored targets. This is not that bad because interceptors die quickly and cost minerals.
- Interceptors now have 30 hitpoints, 30 shields (down from 40 hitpoints, 40 shields)
- Carrier is faster now

Zerg:
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Zerg has been changed to feel more swarm-like with cheaper and more easier massable units and support casters.

The basic units are mostly unchanged but their roles have shifted somewhat. The Burrow upgrade can now be researched at the Hatchery level for more interesting burrow micro.

Overlord
The Overlord Drop-Upgrade now gives +150 hitpoints to Overlords as well. This way Overlord dropping, especially on top of enemy army, can become more powerful.
Zergling
Unchanged.
Baneling [Requires Baneling Aspect Upgrade]
This unit is now less all-or-nothing then before. You do not mass banelings, you use them strategically as baneling landmines or in drops.
- Does not require the Banelings Nest anymore, instead an Upgrade Baneling Aspect from the Spawning Pool.
- Costs only 25 gas
- Has no speed upgrade anymore
- Has more hitpoints
- Deals more damage in a larger radius (bonus against armored!)
Hydralisk [Requires Hydra Den]
Is now the T1.5 ranged core unit to give zerg early anti-air. This unit is now more easy to mass produce.
- Costs 75 minerals, 25 gas, 1 supply.
- The melee attack is significantly weaker then the ranged attack which means that Hydralisks must be microed away from opponents. On the other hand enemies can try to get closer to the hydras to make them weaker!
- Has 70 hitpoints, 0 armor
- DPS (Ranged) is 10 with a range of 5 (6 upgraded)
- DPS (Melee) is 6 with a range of 1
- Melee attack benefits from melee upgrades instead of range upgrades
- Grooved Spines [Hydralisk Den] can be upgraded for +1 range
- Muscular Augments [Hydralisk Den + Lair] can be upgraded for bonus speed
- Can be morphed to Lurker
Lurker [Requires Lurker Den]
A zerg siege unit with a powerful ranged splash damage attack. Can only attack while burrowed.
- Lair Tech
- Costs 200 minerals, 150 gas, 2 supply.
- DPS is 11.11 with 7 range. Can be microed against to avoid the damage.
- Good versus mass zerglings, terran bio or protoss zealots.
Roach [Requires Roach Burrow]
Is now a thougher more beefy unit but with a less powerful attack.
- Lair Tech
- Costs 100 minerals, 50 gas, 1 supply.
- The melee attack of the roach is stronger then the ranged attack. Micro your roaches close to your enemy to maximize your damage!
- Has 115 hitpoints, 2 armor
- DPS (Ranged) is 7 (light), 12 (armored) with a range of 4
- DPS (Melee) is 14 with a range of 1
- Melee attack benefits from melee upgrades instead of range upgrades
- Good versus mass zerglings, terran bio or protoss zealots.
Ultralisk [Requires Ultralisk Cavern]
Cheaper, smaller, faster, no more splash.
- Hive Tech
- Costs 200 minerals, 200 gas, 4 supply.
- Has 400 hitpoints, 2 armor
- DPS is 21, no splash
- Moves as quickly as unupgraded zerglings

Mutalisk [Requires Spire]
Cheaper, smaller, faster, more fragile.
- Lair Tech
- Costs 100 minerals, 100 gas, 1 supply.
- Hitpoints down to 90
- Smaller collision size so they clump up more easily
Corrupter [Requires Spire]
Is now a melee air unit with charge
- Lair Tech
- Costs 175 minerals, 150 gas, 1 supply.
- Morphed from Mutalisk
- Hitpoints 225 with 2 armor
- Mutalisks, Phoenix and Erinys are faster, but Corrupter can charge to gain incredible movement speed for a short period of time
- Melee anti-air attack with 18.25 DPS
Brood Lord [Requires Greater Spire]
Pretty much unchanged right now
- Hive Tech
- Morphed from Mutalisk

The Viper was changed to be more of a defensive support caster, the Infestor is more of an offensive caster.

Brood Mother [Requires Spawning Pool]
Almost identical to the old Queen. Same abilities and similar stats.
Queen [Requires Queens Nest]
Evolves from the Brood Mother and has support spells.
- Lair Tech
- Can not attack
- Can use Abduct (50 energy) to pull a single enemy unit to its location
- Can use Fungal Growth (75) energy to slow enemies within an area of effect down. The slow down changes the maximum movement speed of the affected units and is NOT percentage based. Hits both allies and enemies alike.
- Pheromone Injection [Queens Nest] can be researched. Increases the movement speed, attack speed and hitpoint regeneration of all Bio units (allies and enemies) within area of effect. This spell can be used offensively to attack or defensively to retreat or to heal.
Infestor [Requires Infestation Pit]
Still work in progress since I dont know what to do with the third ability yet.
- Hive Tech
- Can not attack
- Can spawn Infested Terrans (50 energy) to fight for a while
- Can use Dark Cloud (100 energy) to make all units within the area of effect take 75% less damage from ranged attacks. (Yeah, its a Dark Swarm)
- Neural Parasite [Infestation Pit] can be researched.
Swarm Host [Requires Hive]
This unit is a mobile Hatchery!
- Costs 200 minerals, 150 gas, 3 supply
- Can not attack
- When burrowed it will generate creep around itself and spawn 4 Larvae every 90.0 seconds. The Larvae are regular Larvae and can be used to produce any kind of zerg units. This way zerg can reproduce its force anywhere on the map.

Media

Visit the official CustomCraft Youtube channel to see some of the changes in action!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFztnhPcXL2J_Dqf4GRi3Ng

Terran Drop-Pod Silos:
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Ghost harassment with G-4 charges:
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Spider Mines from the Raven:
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The Protector in Action:
+ Show Spoiler +

The new Oracle abilities:
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The new Swarm Host infesting a Protoss base:
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Comparison of Hydralisk vs Roach in ranged and melee combat:
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Here we see 5 Hydralisks (375 minerals, 125 gas) battle against 4 Roaches (400 minerals, 200 gas).

In this first fight the Hydras and Roaches use their ranged attacks against each other. The Hydralisks will win this fight convincingly with 2 or 3 Hydras alive at the end.

But if we micro a little bit and move our Roaches closer, into melee range, the Roaches suddenly win with 3 or all 4 Roaches alive. This is just one of the examples of improved micro options without adding active abilities. We just use the regular attacks and the movement of the units to make micro opportunities in the game. The Hydralisk player can even counter micro with moving his Hydralisks away or focus firing Roaches that are further away.

Ideas for the Future

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Here is a list of things I am thinking about adding but I have not yet gotten around to doing so.

Add another Terran mech unit that is a spellcaster
Add another Protoss robo unit that can fight
Create an active ability for the Storm Hawk to make it more useful in the late game
Spell to replace Neural Parasite on Infestor
Spell to replace Abduct on Viper
Maybe add the HotS Medivac After Burners ability for the terran Drop Ship with an upgrade at the tech lab

Final Words

This Project is only in its Infancy right now and still needs a lot of work and polishing. I will try to do my best and any kind of feedback is welcome.
If you want to help then please go ahead, write me a PM or reply to this thread and I promise I will read carefully what you have to say and consider it for the mod.

Rukis

United States252 Posts

May 17 2015 12:04 GMT

If you're going to add a terran mech spell caster unit. Please for the love of god make it like the Science Vessel or make it a Factory unit that has rocket launchers/Land mines that are manually casted.. etc. Something that is completely Terran like but not as op as the BW tank. lool I'm not sure how you would balance this but as a lot of well known SC professionals have said please bring back the BW tank. - Just my thoughts. Also if you would like someone to help test in game setting please PM me :D!

PS looking forward to trying this mod too!

RoomOfMush

1296 Posts

May 17 2015 12:42 GMT

On May 17 2015 21:04 Rukis wrote:
If you're going to add a terran mech spell caster unit. Please for the love of god make it like the Science Vessel or make it a Factory unit that has rocket launchers/Land mines that are manually casted.. etc. Something that is completely Terran like but not as op as the BW tank. lool I'm not sure how you would balance this but as a lot of well known SC professionals have said please bring back the BW tank. - Just my thoughts. Also if you would like someone to help test in game setting please PM me :D!

PS looking forward to trying this mod too!

Thanks for the comment!

In case you missed it, Terran mech now has the Hoplit (kind of like the Goliath) that has anti-air single target rocket launchers. The re-designed Raven can now drop Spider Mines. In general the Raven goes really well with Mech with its new Repair Drone and the permanent Auto-Turrets that can be used to build barricades around your siege tanks.

Siege Tanks have also lost the smart targeting because they now fire a very quick missle instead of having an instant attack. To make up for that they have much higher DPS (not as high as BW though).

I took some time and recorded a little bit of gameplay footage of the mod. Well, not exactly gameplay because it was on a test map, but perhaps it will help you to get more of a feeling of some changes.
I will record more videos in the future.
Visit this youtube channel to see them in action: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFztnhPcXL2J_Dqf4GRi3Ng
(Sorry for the low graphics settings in game, I usually play on low settings and didnt notice until after I made the videos)

fluidrone

France1478 Posts

May 17 2015 14:33 GMT

So fun to do your own sc isn't it?

I <3 it, thank you again and again Blizzard Entertainment for providing us with Galaxy!

RoomOfMush

1296 Posts

May 19 2015 21:55 GMT

Already played a couple of games, made lots of bug fixes and a few balance updates as well.
If anybody is interested in trying this out just ask. I would love to play against somebody. Skill level is not as important.

On May 17 2015 23:33 fluidrone wrote:
So fun to do your own sc isn't it?

I <3 it, thank you again and again Blizzard Entertainment for providing us with Galaxy!

I am not quite sure what you mean with that, but it sure is fun.

fluidrone

France1478 Posts

May 19 2015 22:40 GMT

I did an sc2 mod and felt that it made sc2 mine even more so by doing it

(the fact it bombed further illustrates my second paragraph).
So I meant just that (and felt that it meant I had to post saying it) "it is so fun to do one's own starcraft".
(I thanked biglizz because we should all do so publicly once in a while).

I posted because I feel bewildered by the frighteningly low number of gamers making their own (of course no one will play it (sorry if that sounds harsh), but then again, it is an extra new unknown) galaxy (possibly a great one) <3.
Sorry for rant, I'm old, I suggest you try and sue.
Edit:+ Show Spoiler [stix mod] +

Change to terrans
# --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Siege tanks:
200 from an original 150 hp and resource 200/200 from 150/125 gas
size doubled (a bit less)
In siege mode:
armor 3/1, scanner tweak (30 at the start/100max energy)
rockets attack air attack against air units
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Bunker :
size 3/1 / cost: 150/120
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Battlecruiser :
size 2/1 / cost doubled! changed to hyperion yamato cannon, upped armor, added a second weapon and Odin+Ghost nuclear strike (with arm magazine on the side) and (still a wip) / should end up carrying units (load/unload/8 only 6 for now)
# --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Addition to the terrans
traded Dominion Marauder for Marauder (Barracks with addon)
added medic (Barracks base)/ Goliath (Machine shop base)/ Wraith (Stargate base with research to get cloak) Science Vessel (Stargate with addon and fusion core)

# --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Add on to terrans
Stix units

Bigblue = the elite ai worker unit (converts into buildings)
Shadowmaster = master caster
Shadow= "mechanical scourge" that attack air and ground (damages everyone)
Legion= stix cowboy infiltration unit
Mecha= bigblue gone arsenal
Stix Knights= endgame units
Destroyer= sith knight interceptors'

Stix Heroes + Show Spoiler +
# --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Change to zerg
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Queen: more everything: 600/200 mana 100/30 for start / cost : 90/150 / less regeneration when burrowed, added fungal growth ability when burrowed
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Hydralisk morph to lurker available through lurker den on tier 1
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# --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Addition to Zerg
Scourge at half price
# --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Add on to zerg
first one: the Daemon, a veteran mutalisk
# --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Change to protoss
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Mothership directly accessible, with more energy and the wander behavior (making it ...wander)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
none yet
# --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Addition to protoss
]Scout reinstated in Stargate
# --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Add on to protoss
none yet

Somewhere in there.

Avexyli

United States693 Posts

May 22 2015 18:16 GMT

Some of these changes I'm definitely not much of a fan of.

Terran: There's no early AOE to deal with mass ling/bane, perhaps remove the marauder and add the firebat. Removing nuke is pretty lame, as it's a good zoning ability despite it's lack of use. Perhaps re-adding it with a much shorter callldown, cheaper cost, and less damage could show some harass use. The MULE thing seems pointless, even if it's a free SCV it means that it's value is considerably less to that of a scan or a depot (this would require playtesting to determine what's more valuable). The SC2 Battlecruiser could easily be fixed by letting it attack while moving, but I was a fan of the BW BC as well so, consider trying the sc2 BC with moving-attack. There is also no ground-to-air splash unit to be used versus mass mutalisk or void ray or whatever.

Protoss: You buffed DTs and Archons a little too heavily. They're already insanely difficult to play against as a Terran player in the late game, because you have to spam scans and keep your now-weaker bio at home to protect your bases. I feel Zerg players will not like the archon change either. Not having the colossus be targetable by air is pretty lame as well. You weakened what the colossus does the most damage to and then got rid of what was meant to deal with colossus, even with friendly fire I feel you actually buffed colossus where it doesn't need to be. Also, does the Immortal attack air now? Because if not, Protoss has literally no AA until Twilight tech, which is pretty bad against drops or early muta play.

Zerg: You kept zerglings the same and gave banelings more damage after weakening terran bio. Uh, I feel like this was a mis-call. I feel like Zerg doesn't have a good handle on dealing with high health compositions (ie mech). Perhaps add the abberation as a tanky melee anti-mech unit. Muta buff, okay, this seems okay ZvP because of the archon buff, but with like ground-to-air splash from each race I feel like this may be a problem. Not sure, requires playtesting. Can the corruptor not have an autocast charge, and then make the unit it charges into be stunned for a small amount of time? I feel like this would be a nice way to deal with units like the phoenix. 'Cause else having them melee charge units seems pretty pointless. Also, the swarm host is a sweet idea but -four larvae- per minute and a half seems INCREDIBLY ridiculous. If this is the case you need to balance it by disabling queen injects. Zerg production is already massively ahead of Terran production for lategame, and now as well against Protoss due to the warpgate nerf. I like the idea but it's very crazy for what it is now. You need to create a punishment for using them as mobile hatcheries. Make sure it also isn't flagged as a real hatchery in base-trade scenarios.

RoomOfMush

1296 Posts

May 24 2015 15:12 GMT

Thanks for the detailed feedback. Unfortunately the info given in the OP is currently out of date. I am now 23 patches in and quite a few things have changed. I am going to update the OP as soon as I find enough time for it (hopefully today).

There's no early AOE to deal with mass ling/bane, perhaps remove the marauder and add the firebat.

There are now Hellbats in the game. By the way, banelings play differently now, mass banelings is no longer a thing. Instead, you go for baneling drops or baneling landmines. Ghosts are also very good against zerglings and the earlier medics with their high hitpoints and armor and lower cost then medivacs can help tank a little.

Removing nuke is pretty lame, as it's a good zoning ability despite it's lack of use. Perhaps re-adding it with a much shorter callldown, cheaper cost, and less damage could show some harass use.

Thats what the G-4 Charge of the Ghost is. Its the same as a nuke but:
1) its cheaper (no cost, only cooldown)
2) deals less damage
3) has a shorter range
but on the other hand the enemy does not get a notification when it is used, only the sound effect and the visuals (the charge is clearly visible to the enemy) can tip him off.

The MULE thing seems pointless, even if it's a free SCV it means that it's value is considerably less to that of a scan or a depot (this would require playtesting to determine what's more valuable).

I playtested the MULE as it was in the OP and it was the most overpowered thing you could imagine. It was changed now that it lasts only 300.0 seconds.
The problem is that the old MULE is much more useful then supply depots or scan. There is no real reason for a good player to ever use the supply depot ability (except when you just lost all your depots and need to rebuild quickly) and you dont want to scan very often. Now, the MULE scales better, gives less of a burst in income but rather a more linear bonus and using supply depots over mules is not that bad an idea anymore giving you more strategic choice.

The SC2 Battlecruiser could easily be fixed by letting it attack while moving, but I was a fan of the BW BC as well so, consider trying the sc2 BC with moving-attack.

The role of the BC in SC2 was against many small units with little hp and armor. This is not really needed for terran as terran has plenty of other units for that job. Instead, the BC was refitted to be effective against huge targets with high hitpoints and armor.

You buffed DTs and Archons a little too heavily. They're already insanely difficult to play against as a Terran player in the late game, because you have to spam scans and keep your now-weaker bio at home to protect your bases.

Missle turrets are cheaper now and do not require an EngiBay so DT's shouldnt be too much of an issue for a terran. And since Ghosts are now more useful the chances are good that you have more ghosts to EMP archons with.
On the other hand DT's were only useful for harassment and nobody would use them offensively. They are very expensive and die quickly, often landing only a few hits before they go down. The damage bonus does not change the number of attacks needed to kill the smaller units, but now DT's are more useful against mech, ultralisks and archons / colossus.
Archons were just in general too weak for their high cost. The DPS / Cost relation was pretty terrible for them.

Not having the colossus be targetable by air is pretty lame as well. You weakened what the colossus does the most damage to and then got rid of what was meant to deal with colossus, even with friendly fire I feel you actually buffed colossus where it doesn't need to be.

The colossus was really underperforming in all of my test games really. I am thinking about replacing it with a better unit or buffing it in some way. But that is a though call right now, I need more testing.

Also, does the Immortal attack air now?

Yes of course. Quite effectively I might add.

You kept zerglings the same and gave banelings more damage after weakening terran bio. Uh, I feel like this was a mis-call.

As said earlier, banelings are very different now. Less movement speed, no more speed upgrade, but more HP, more damage and more splash area. This makes banelings a lot worse when massed because they become very fragile to hit-and-run tactics and splash damage. On the other hand overlord drops have become better (more overlord HP) and burrow is cheap and hatchery tech; this means banelings can be used for carpet bombing and land mines more easily.

I feel like Zerg doesn't have a good handle on dealing with high health compositions (ie mech). Perhaps add the abberation as a tanky melee anti-mech unit.

Dark Cloud from the Infestor, the cheaper and faster (and smaller) Ultralisk as well as cheap mass produceable hydralisks are a good counter to mech.

Can the corruptor not have an autocast charge, and then make the unit it charges into be stunned for a small amount of time?

The charge has autocast (think: Chargelots from HotS). Giving the charge ability a stun might be too powerful, but thats hard to say without proper testing. I will consider it for the future if Corrupters underperform.

Also, the swarm host is a sweet idea but -four larvae- per minute and a half seems INCREDIBLY ridiculous.

I dont agree. A normal hatchery spawns 1 larvae every 15 seconds. It would spawn 4 larvae all 60 seconds which is 2/3 of how fast the swarm host does it. In addition to that a hatchery can be injected by a queen for even more larvae.
Then, the swarm host is more expensive then a hatchery and it costs you supply too, meaning you can get less army. Obviously its less efficient to get swarm hosts then hatcheries when all you want is more unit production. The only benefits of the Swarm host is its mobility, being invisible while burrowed and the creep it can help you to spread. I am actually more concerned about it being too weak rather then too strong.

Make sure it also isn't flagged as a real hatchery in base-trade scenarios.

Its a unit, dont worry.

Thanks again for the post, its nice to see that some people have interest in this. I will try to update it periodically to keep things fresh.

RoomOfMush

1296 Posts

May 26 2015 18:45 GMT

Added some more information to the OP.
The mod uses TL Double Harvest (which wasnt mentioned yet) and also all ground units shooting uphill (at ground targets) will deal 33% less damage!

BlackLilium

Poland426 Posts

May 29 2015 19:59 GMT

#10

Since you are (or planning to?) use the DH model, I suggest you use "Double Harvesting 3x3" (by LiliumAtratm). It contains the fix for queuing orders after harvesting.

HolyDiver

United States17 Posts

May 30 2015 07:32 GMT

#11

Hey man,

This is really neat! I really like a lot of the ideas. Many of them mirror my own thoughts for my own little Starcraft mod. Some of this is very well thought out. Makes me reconsider and simply some of my ideas.

Terran: I really like your overall changes here. Each unit has a clear purpose. Although I miss the reaper (I like this unit conceptually as a base raider with bombs), I actually think that the G4 charge fits surprisingly well on the ghost. Gives you a strong incentive to toggle off your attack and get close with the charges. Really cool.

Will check out the other races later. Thanks for your work and inspiring me.

RoomOfMush

1296 Posts

May 30 2015 13:06 GMT

#12

Thanks for the comments! Very encouraging.

@BlackLilium: Thank you, I will look into it.

The Tempest has been re-added to the protoss arsenal, it requires the fleet beacon and has a medium range splash damage attack with a small splash radius and relatively low DPS. Good against mass muta / zergling or bio-balls.

There are still a few bugs as it seems, when testing the map locally everything works, but when I actually open a game on BNet with the mod some values get overwritten with the HotS multiplayer values. I will look into it to fix this.

Here are some areas I am still looking into for changes:

3rd Terran spellcaster
Additional offensive protoss robo unit
Spell to replace Abduct on Viper and spell to replace Neural Parasite on Infestor
Maybe the medivac after burners for the terran Drop Ship with an upgrade at the tech lab
Maybe buff the new Swarm Host in some way, perhaps burrow movement?
Maybe reduce all DPS and movement speeds to make battles last longer
Maybe lower all attack ranges to discourage death balls

I am still looking for people to do more testing, I also welcome anybody to make suggestions for additional changes.

RoomOfMush

1296 Posts

May 30 2015 21:40 GMT

#13

Updated the main post and added a link to the official Youtube Channel where you can watch some of the changes in action.

varsovie

Canada326 Posts

May 31 2015 12:17 GMT

#14

On May 30 2015 22:06 RoomOfMush wrote:

[*]Maybe reduce all DPS and movement speeds to make battles last longer

Just reduce game speed. :D

RoomOfMush

1296 Posts

May 31 2015 12:41 GMT

#15

On May 31 2015 21:17 varsovie wrote:

Show nested quote +

Just reduce game speed. :D

That would also have an effect on your resource income, scouting, building times, ability durations, etc.
I just want to try things out to make battles last longer.

LSN

Germany696 Posts

June 02 2015 12:00 GMT

#16

Some great ideas I have seen already such as the split of hydra attacks into melee and ranged.

I like that the omnipotent role of bio is being weakened. Curious to see how the other changes make up for it and what else is there.

RoomOfMush

1296 Posts

June 02 2015 15:36 GMT

#17

Updated the game once again. Here are the changes in detail:

Tempest is fixed now and should work
Dark Cloud ability from Infestor now reduces ranged attacks by 75% instead of 100%
Removed feedback from Oracle, gave it Disruption Field instead
- Costs 150 energy
- Area of effect spell that targets ground units only
- All units in the area of effect become invulnerable but can no longer attack, harvest, or use special abilities.
- Can be used for harassment on worker lines, or to protect your own units during combat (High templars, etc) or to disable parts of the enemy army when you attack / defend
Changed costs and hitpoints / shields of Colossus. The Colossus can now be killed more easily but its also cheaper
Most units had their attack ranges decreased by 1 or 0.5
Most units had their building times increased by 10% - 15%

As always, comments, opinions and feedback are greatly appreciated!

BlackLilium

Poland426 Posts

June 04 2015 16:33 GMT

#18

That disruption field.... really interesting ability
I see it as a mean of escape, or pushing towards heavily fortified line (e.g. siege tanks), but does not directly affect the battle itself. Really intetesting!

[PkF] Wire

France24192 Posts

June 04 2015 19:21 GMT

#19

Too many things at once. I remain convinced WoL units could be turned into greatness with very few tweaks. I'll probably give that mod a shot though.

Edit : don't get me wrong, there seem to be a lot of good ideas here. But I think a great game could be achieved with far less changes from WoL/HotS.

RoomOfMush

1296 Posts

June 14 2015 17:06 GMT

#20

New rather big changes.

The game will now start with 9 workers at the start instead of 6. This is done because many people approve the 12 worker start in LotV, however 12 workers felt a little bit much and so 9 was choosen as a healthy number in between.

The Goliath has been replaced by the War Hound. The War Hound has the same anti-air attack as the Goliath had but instead of the Gattling Gun it has a Railgun with a slower attack speed and bonus damage against armored targets. This is because the Goliath and the Viking (assault mode) had very similar attacks. This will also make the mod more SC2 and less BW.

The Vikings anti-air attack has also been changed slightly. The missles are now not homing. If a Viking fires at a moving target some of its missles might miss the attacked unit if it is moving fast enough. On the other hand, the splash area has been slightly increased.

Siege / unsiege time as well as attack cooldown of the Siege Tank have been increased slightly as well.

The Infestor now has the Corrosive Parasite ability instead of Neural Parasite. Corrosive Parasite is cast on an area and reduces the armor of all units within the area by 3 as well as giving the casting player vision of the affected units.

The Dropships now have an upgrade at the Tech-Lab for faster load / unload time. Ghosts have become cheaper, and there were some smaller changes and bugfixes (Hellbat no longer biological, Colossus attack now synced with graphics, etc).

I am still looking for feedback and suggestions. Especially for the Corrupter and Medic. I would like to make these units more exiting and useful in some way.

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