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Why do some people say modders have to be paid, because they need to live?
As if the modders are some repressed demographic starving because they dont have money.
Everyone knows how the modding community works. You dont expect people to pay you for the mod you make, this is clear for anyone who decides going into this. If you dont want to do unpaid work then dont make mods, its as simple as that.
Yet there are loads of people making mods, who arent getting paid a cent. Because they do it as a hobby, not as a job. Saying that people are entitled because they dont want a pricetag slapped on every mod is outright ludicrous. Nobody, not even the modders, asked for this.
This isnt about paying the modders, its about valve earning more money. This is only exemplified by the huge cut they take.
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On April 24 2015 23:51 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 22:13 Endymion wrote:
what about copyright issues? if you make a my little pony mod for skyrim and charge for it, it's completely illegal without involving hasbro's legal team and gaining copyright approval.. or like a halo mod for sins of the solar empire, how can valve possibly charge money without directly involving relevant parties? like TB mentioned, it's a massive legal can of worms, I'm honestly surprised valve decided to go so haphazardly down this route (although it probably has all of its bases covered considering its a big company) Well it's easy. Valve will unleash legal action on some 16yo kid that made a mod and the said kid will never get to a lawsuit because he doesn't know what to do. Because no kid will fight valve in legal even if valve is completly wrong (not saying they are. Just saying if they are, it won't matter since a lot of modders are underage or students).
no, i mean the legal action between valve and the third party.. the third party won't go after the kid, they'll go after the big fish here, valve. how is valve distributed copyrighted material without cutting in the third party? it's like if walmart sold bootlegged dvds, the movie companies would sue walmart not the bootleggers (primarily)
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Look, all you capitalist hardliners can't deny that pay-for-mods will eat into the community of people who mod as a hobby. That should be obvious.
Which is a better system? idk, there are lots of nuances, but necessarily if a functional monopoly interest puts one system into place using their power differential it will obviously erode or destroy the other.
On April 25 2015 03:49 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 23:51 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 24 2015 22:13 Endymion wrote:
what about copyright issues? if you make a my little pony mod for skyrim and charge for it, it's completely illegal without involving hasbro's legal team and gaining copyright approval.. or like a halo mod for sins of the solar empire, how can valve possibly charge money without directly involving relevant parties? like TB mentioned, it's a massive legal can of worms, I'm honestly surprised valve decided to go so haphazardly down this route (although it probably has all of its bases covered considering its a big company) Well it's easy. Valve will unleash legal action on some 16yo kid that made a mod and the said kid will never get to a lawsuit because he doesn't know what to do. Because no kid will fight valve in legal even if valve is completly wrong (not saying they are. Just saying if they are, it won't matter since a lot of modders are underage or students). no, i mean the legal action between valve and the third party.. the third party won't go after the kid, they'll go after the big fish here, valve. how is valve distributed copyrighted material without cutting in the third party? it's like if walmart sold bootlegged dvds, the movie companies would sue walmart not the bootleggers (primarily)
They'll just use an Apple type store system to protect themselves where questionable content gets pulled by the review team. So any infringement will be handled on a "just notify us" basis and (inevitably) some legit mods will get false positive'd removed.
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On April 25 2015 01:20 revalence123 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 10:10 G3CKO wrote:This is a repost of my blog from LiquidDota because I thought blogs are shared between sites but apparently not!Now I'm going to explain this whole situation using Skyrim only but this applies to almost every other game that is going to use this system from now on; and from Valve's description, they are planning to do this on multiple games. What Valve recently did was decided to monetize the entire modding scene. It gives the option for authors to put up a pay wall and charges people for money to download mods. You can read it up here: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontentHonestly very very few people in the modding community, including me, think this is a good thing. I'll just share some of my thoughts in this post and the next post will contain the general feedback from various modding communities.
Mods break all the timeIf you ever modded Oblivion, or Skyrim you would know this. Mods glitch out and bug out all the time and worst of all they literally break your game and force you to do clean re-installs all the time. Now paying for that seems weird to me.
Bugs bugs bugs bugs bugsOk you may know that a lot of games are glitchy as hell; and it's actually up to the users to fix it (looking at you Bethesda). What a lot of mods do is actually fix game breaking/crashing bugs and make the game playable. So pretty much for any Bethesda game, you are expected to pay $50-60 for the full game then slap on 10-20 mods to make the game actually playable. So when people charge money for those mods, might as well pay for overpriced DLCs.Asset sharingOk if you look at this mod: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=429374670&searchtext=
You will notice it uses assets from a lot of other mods. For example the biggest thing it use is SKSE, or Skyrim Script Extender. Infact I would say over 50% of all mods uses this little, but very useful, extension. Pretty much what people are doing is using other people's assets for themselves to make some quick money. If you take a look at the Skyrim Nexus, tons of mods uses assets from other mods to function. One example is the what I call "waifu mods"; Skin textures relies on the custom meshes, breast/butt jiggle physics rely on the custom skeleton. So ya people are using other people's work to make money, even with permission this just seems weird and wrong.UpdatesSo if you take a stroll on the workshop, you will find mods that aren't actively being updated anymore. This is a big issue because when patches come out or new mods come out, a lot of older mods need to be updated or they won't work. Now a lot of mod authors put up a mod and just runs away, when it breaks there's no way to track the person down and fix it.So ya, where did your brains go valve? Modding is more about the community and being able to do whatever the hell you want with your game and never about money. Now it's just a way to rake in cheap money. With Fallout 4 coming, the modding scene will be dead. Pretty much Bethesda signed their own execution on the PC market. If more games follow this sort of path, SEX MODS WILL BE THE LAST BASTION OF FREE PC MODDING, because Valve don't take in 18+ mods. Now there are definitely modders that do deserve something special. Falskaar was a mod that rivals what Bethesda calls full size DLCs. It adds in a completely new area with fully voiced NPCs and quests. If you want to know how good that mod is, the mod team got hired by Bungie. A good alternative is just add in a donate button instead of putting up a pay wall. There is nothing wrong with donations (believe me, plenty people donate to good modders and help them out with their projects) but putting things behind a pay wall is just wrong and goes against common sense. Part 2 continued in next post. Ok man I am gonna stop you right there. A. I do love my free mods, but your telling me if someone spends a massive ammount of time making some badass mod like I don't know Skywind, which is a complete remake of Morrowind in the skyrim engine, they shouldn't be able to be payed for there work. Addressing the point of broken and abandoned mods, you need to understand the process of making any decent mod to really be able to understand this. While some modders are teens with a lot of time, the majority are adults. You know the time with 8 hour or longer jobs a week, 5 to 6 days a week, with spouses who deserve their attention, friends, children, and - one of the most important points - the need to live. YOU NEED MONEY TO LIVE, and if the project takes to much time and they aren't making money on it, it doesn't matter how much you want to do it, you can't do it. Now, I will admit a 75% cut of the mods are kinda bullshit. That need to be lowered. And, if it stays that Valve needs to release documents showing why they need almost all of the profit. And saying valve killed modding is kind of silly. Yes while some games only have mods on the Workshop, the vast majority are on other websites, such as Nexus. Its cool that you want to make sure modding is still a thing at the end of the day, and it is good you are to voice your opinion, but you are sorely miss guided my friends.And sex mods... what the fuck.... most people don't use those anyways. By the way, the whole resource sharing thing I don't think will be a problem. IF, and its a big if, the owners of these assets want to charge, they can do what Unity and Unreal does and just have a licensing system, but something tell me they won't be charging anyone for it. AND WHO IN THERE RIGHT FUCKING MIND WOULD CHARGE SOMEONE $60 FOR A FUCKING MOD! Come on man use your head, while some of these mods are really large they couldn't possibly charge more than $20 dollars for it. And honestly, I don't mind that. Since we are talking about Skyrim let's use that as a perfect example. There are so many DLC sized mods that I have played that are much better than the DLC. And, you have to understand many will still have the mind set of, this is a mod and I am not gonna pay a shitload of money for something possibly smaller than a DLC that I only payed $15 to $20 bucks for. If people charge $50 or $60 dollars like you suggest they will, no one will touch it with a 10 foot fucking pool. Not to mention Valve is implementing this is an optional thing. They could set up pay what you want or donation system or make it free. The end result it, this isn't going to hurt modding, it will fund the modders to be able to pay for there other things so maybe they can start doing this full time, and you won't have the badass mods abandoned, maybe you won't have mods being so buggy because they have pay people or just allocate more time to it, because money makes the world go round, and we will get even better add on content. And to end this I will just say one thing.. Fallout 3 on PC.. nuff said.
You know they started making Skywind before there was any talk of charging for mods right? They must've been fine with not getting paid.
More money does not always mean better content. Look at Star Wars: The Old Republic. Look at Rome Total War 2. Just because a project has a lot of money invested in it does not mean it will be good. In fact, it often means it will be bad. If money is an incentive, the product will be made to appeal just enough to the most customers, instead of being greatly appealing to a few customers. The casualization of videogames is largely due to the influence of money. Games are no longer being made by people who would actually want to play them. They are made by people who want to make a shitload of money.
Do you think Dwarf Fortress would be so in-depth if Toady was in it for the money? How about Aurora 4x? Would that be cool if Steve Walmsley was in it for the money?
I think the answer to both of those is no. Both games are pretty hard, meaning they don't appeal to a wide demographic. The widest demographic is stupid people, and stupid people want easy, garbage games.
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On April 25 2015 12:09 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 01:20 revalence123 wrote:On April 24 2015 10:10 G3CKO wrote:This is a repost of my blog from LiquidDota because I thought blogs are shared between sites but apparently not!Now I'm going to explain this whole situation using Skyrim only but this applies to almost every other game that is going to use this system from now on; and from Valve's description, they are planning to do this on multiple games. What Valve recently did was decided to monetize the entire modding scene. It gives the option for authors to put up a pay wall and charges people for money to download mods. You can read it up here: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontentHonestly very very few people in the modding community, including me, think this is a good thing. I'll just share some of my thoughts in this post and the next post will contain the general feedback from various modding communities.
Mods break all the timeIf you ever modded Oblivion, or Skyrim you would know this. Mods glitch out and bug out all the time and worst of all they literally break your game and force you to do clean re-installs all the time. Now paying for that seems weird to me.
Bugs bugs bugs bugs bugsOk you may know that a lot of games are glitchy as hell; and it's actually up to the users to fix it (looking at you Bethesda). What a lot of mods do is actually fix game breaking/crashing bugs and make the game playable. So pretty much for any Bethesda game, you are expected to pay $50-60 for the full game then slap on 10-20 mods to make the game actually playable. So when people charge money for those mods, might as well pay for overpriced DLCs.Asset sharingOk if you look at this mod: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=429374670&searchtext=
You will notice it uses assets from a lot of other mods. For example the biggest thing it use is SKSE, or Skyrim Script Extender. Infact I would say over 50% of all mods uses this little, but very useful, extension. Pretty much what people are doing is using other people's assets for themselves to make some quick money. If you take a look at the Skyrim Nexus, tons of mods uses assets from other mods to function. One example is the what I call "waifu mods"; Skin textures relies on the custom meshes, breast/butt jiggle physics rely on the custom skeleton. So ya people are using other people's work to make money, even with permission this just seems weird and wrong.UpdatesSo if you take a stroll on the workshop, you will find mods that aren't actively being updated anymore. This is a big issue because when patches come out or new mods come out, a lot of older mods need to be updated or they won't work. Now a lot of mod authors put up a mod and just runs away, when it breaks there's no way to track the person down and fix it.So ya, where did your brains go valve? Modding is more about the community and being able to do whatever the hell you want with your game and never about money. Now it's just a way to rake in cheap money. With Fallout 4 coming, the modding scene will be dead. Pretty much Bethesda signed their own execution on the PC market. If more games follow this sort of path, SEX MODS WILL BE THE LAST BASTION OF FREE PC MODDING, because Valve don't take in 18+ mods. Now there are definitely modders that do deserve something special. Falskaar was a mod that rivals what Bethesda calls full size DLCs. It adds in a completely new area with fully voiced NPCs and quests. If you want to know how good that mod is, the mod team got hired by Bungie. A good alternative is just add in a donate button instead of putting up a pay wall. There is nothing wrong with donations (believe me, plenty people donate to good modders and help them out with their projects) but putting things behind a pay wall is just wrong and goes against common sense. Part 2 continued in next post. Ok man I am gonna stop you right there. A. I do love my free mods, but your telling me if someone spends a massive ammount of time making some badass mod like I don't know Skywind, which is a complete remake of Morrowind in the skyrim engine, they shouldn't be able to be payed for there work. Addressing the point of broken and abandoned mods, you need to understand the process of making any decent mod to really be able to understand this. While some modders are teens with a lot of time, the majority are adults. You know the time with 8 hour or longer jobs a week, 5 to 6 days a week, with spouses who deserve their attention, friends, children, and - one of the most important points - the need to live. YOU NEED MONEY TO LIVE, and if the project takes to much time and they aren't making money on it, it doesn't matter how much you want to do it, you can't do it. Now, I will admit a 75% cut of the mods are kinda bullshit. That need to be lowered. And, if it stays that Valve needs to release documents showing why they need almost all of the profit. And saying valve killed modding is kind of silly. Yes while some games only have mods on the Workshop, the vast majority are on other websites, such as Nexus. Its cool that you want to make sure modding is still a thing at the end of the day, and it is good you are to voice your opinion, but you are sorely miss guided my friends.And sex mods... what the fuck.... most people don't use those anyways. By the way, the whole resource sharing thing I don't think will be a problem. IF, and its a big if, the owners of these assets want to charge, they can do what Unity and Unreal does and just have a licensing system, but something tell me they won't be charging anyone for it. AND WHO IN THERE RIGHT FUCKING MIND WOULD CHARGE SOMEONE $60 FOR A FUCKING MOD! Come on man use your head, while some of these mods are really large they couldn't possibly charge more than $20 dollars for it. And honestly, I don't mind that. Since we are talking about Skyrim let's use that as a perfect example. There are so many DLC sized mods that I have played that are much better than the DLC. And, you have to understand many will still have the mind set of, this is a mod and I am not gonna pay a shitload of money for something possibly smaller than a DLC that I only payed $15 to $20 bucks for. If people charge $50 or $60 dollars like you suggest they will, no one will touch it with a 10 foot fucking pool. Not to mention Valve is implementing this is an optional thing. They could set up pay what you want or donation system or make it free. The end result it, this isn't going to hurt modding, it will fund the modders to be able to pay for there other things so maybe they can start doing this full time, and you won't have the badass mods abandoned, maybe you won't have mods being so buggy because they have pay people or just allocate more time to it, because money makes the world go round, and we will get even better add on content. And to end this I will just say one thing.. Fallout 3 on PC.. nuff said. You know they started making Skywind before there was any talk of charging for mods right? They must've been fine with not getting paid. More money does not always mean better content. Look at Star Wars: The Old Republic. Look at Rome Total War 2. Just because a project has a lot of money invested in it does not mean it will be good. In fact, it often means it will be bad. If money is an incentive, the product will be made to appeal just enough to the most customers, instead of being greatly appealing to a few customers. The casualization of videogames is largely due to the influence of money. Games are no longer being made by people who would actually want to play them. They are made by people who want to make a shitload of money. Do you think Dwarf Fortress would be so in-depth if Toady was in it for the money? How about Aurora 4x? Would that be cool if Steve Walmsley was in it for the money? I think the answer to both of those is no. Both games are pretty hard, meaning they don't appeal to a wide demographic. The widest demographic is stupid people, and stupid people want easy, garbage games.
Actually the mod team behind Skywind recently just said they will never charge money for Skywind ever. Which is awesome because that mod team is awesome; they are re-recording the soundtrack with professional composers and choirs. If you want to donate to support a mod team, it's definitely that one.
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Saying 'modders have to be supported' is simply absurd. They have been supported all along, those who created quality mods have always been financially supported by the community.
Now Valve are taking a cut from that. A huge one. Your average modder won't have more money than before...
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Northern Ireland26318 Posts
Valve's cut seems too high for a start. Although, modders can still choose NOT to charge right?
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On April 26 2015 19:42 Wombat_NI wrote:
Valve's cut seems too high for a start. Although, modders can still choose NOT to charge right?
Yes but if you've been following the development of this, you also know that modding is about collaboration and the re-use of other people's work. Furthermore, a shitload of mods are dependent upon other mods. What this means is that if certain modders decide that all of a sudden, they don't want other modders to use their assets, and they want their own mods to be paid, then the rest of the people are screwed. If I have a mod that I want to be made available for free, but it uses the assets of some other mod by a guy who made it in 2012, and he suddenly doesn't want me to use it, or he suddenly wants to charge for his mod upon which mine is dependent, then my mod that people used to experiment with or at least screw around with (a big part of the Skyrim experience for many), is now a useless mod.
Those are at least two barriers:
-Dependencies
-Digital property (or whatever)
But the third obvious problem makes sense if you're familiar with the modding scene. I'm not really, but I've been reading a bit and it seems like it's extremely collaborative. People were willingly helping others and sharing their assets. Now who's to say that the cooperation will continue? Already, some of the modders who have made the most important dependencies like SkyUI and the big mods like Midas Magic have gone behind a paywall. So not only a free mod dependent upon a paid mod will get less visibility, why collaborate when it's now a gold rush to see who's going to get the most lucrative mod?
Not to mention the legal and ethical hell that comes with the sale of the current mods which are amalgams of the work of a bunch of uncredited people.
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So, amazing software like GIMP, Ubuntu and all the cool Linux and Unix distros are free to use but Valve wants to force people to pay for mods. Makes total sense! I am all for it!
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how is valve planning on resolving the "he stole she stole" arguments going on? without formal copyrights being established, no one formally has rights to the revenue or the uploads..
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Remember when you used to own a game you bought. You could do anything you want with it. I mean you payed full price, thats the one and only thing the publisher wanted.
At first i didnt understand the actual difference between owning a game and owning a license. Now i do. Buying license is not enough, nothing you do will never be enough. The devs will always want total control of the game.
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On April 25 2015 20:43 SixStrings wrote:
Saying 'modders have to be supported' is simply absurd. They have been supported all along, those who created quality mods have always been financially supported by the community.
Now Valve are taking a cut from that. A huge one. Your average modder won't have more money than before...
Actually it's Bethesda who takes the biggest cut. It's:
Author: 25%
Bethesda: 40%
Valve: 35% but the mod author can choose to give one or more "service providers" 5% like Nexus for instance, making it 25-40-30-5
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/?
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Still taking 35% as the middleman is fucked up.
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On April 27 2015 03:01 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 20:43 SixStrings wrote:
Saying 'modders have to be supported' is simply absurd. They have been supported all along, those who created quality mods have always been financially supported by the community.
Now Valve are taking a cut from that. A huge one. Your average modder won't have more money than before... Actually it's Bethesda who takes the biggest cut. It's: Author: 25% Bethesda: 40% Valve: 35% but the mod author can choose to give one or more "service providers" 5% like Nexus for instance, making it 25-40-30-5 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/?
Bethesda is taking money from people that made their game WORK. Modders built patches that Bethesda should have PAID developpers to make...
Yeah it makes total sense....
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
seems like a terrible PR move for valve but I mean people are still going to buy games off steam so it doesn't matter. Is anyone really going to boycott steam forever because of this? feels like 90% of games are released via steam anyway.
seems good for modders as they get to make money from their hobby.
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On April 27 2015 06:25 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 03:01 Penev wrote:On April 25 2015 20:43 SixStrings wrote:
Saying 'modders have to be supported' is simply absurd. They have been supported all along, those who created quality mods have always been financially supported by the community.
Now Valve are taking a cut from that. A huge one. Your average modder won't have more money than before... Actually it's Bethesda who takes the biggest cut. It's: Author: 25% Bethesda: 40% Valve: 35% but the mod author can choose to give one or more "service providers" 5% like Nexus for instance, making it 25-40-30-5 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/? Bethesda is taking money from people that made their game WORK. Modders built patches that Bethesda should have PAID developpers to make... Yeah it makes total sense....
Imagine if the "Unofficial Skyrim Patch" etc. would disappear behind a pay wall; They'd get 40% of the fixes they should've implemented themselves in the first place :D
What really rubs me the wrong way is that the great and immense Skyrim/ Bethesda mod community gave them so much extremely positive advertisement for their games FOR FREE(!) but they still find it perfectly reasonable to demand the biggest cut. Unbelievable..
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On April 27 2015 07:23 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 06:25 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 03:01 Penev wrote:On April 25 2015 20:43 SixStrings wrote:
Saying 'modders have to be supported' is simply absurd. They have been supported all along, those who created quality mods have always been financially supported by the community.
Now Valve are taking a cut from that. A huge one. Your average modder won't have more money than before... Actually it's Bethesda who takes the biggest cut. It's: Author: 25% Bethesda: 40% Valve: 35% but the mod author can choose to give one or more "service providers" 5% like Nexus for instance, making it 25-40-30-5 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/? Bethesda is taking money from people that made their game WORK. Modders built patches that Bethesda should have PAID developpers to make... Yeah it makes total sense.... Imagine if the "Unofficial Skyrim Patch" etc. would disappear behind a pay wall; They'd get 40% of the fixes they should've implemented themselves in the first place :D What really rubs me the wrong way is that the great and immense Skyrim/ Bethesda mod community gave them so much extremely positive advertisement for their games FOR FREE(!) but they still find it perfectly reasonable to demand the biggest cut. Unbelievable..
i dunno m8 , they did make the game so it seems reasonable that they deserve a cut when people use their IP to make money
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On April 27 2015 08:38 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 07:23 Penev wrote:On April 27 2015 06:25 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 03:01 Penev wrote:On April 25 2015 20:43 SixStrings wrote:
Saying 'modders have to be supported' is simply absurd. They have been supported all along, those who created quality mods have always been financially supported by the community.
Now Valve are taking a cut from that. A huge one. Your average modder won't have more money than before... Actually it's Bethesda who takes the biggest cut. It's: Author: 25% Bethesda: 40% Valve: 35% but the mod author can choose to give one or more "service providers" 5% like Nexus for instance, making it 25-40-30-5 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/? Bethesda is taking money from people that made their game WORK. Modders built patches that Bethesda should have PAID developpers to make... Yeah it makes total sense.... Imagine if the "Unofficial Skyrim Patch" etc. would disappear behind a pay wall; They'd get 40% of the fixes they should've implemented themselves in the first place :D What really rubs me the wrong way is that the great and immense Skyrim/ Bethesda mod community gave them so much extremely positive advertisement for their games FOR FREE(!) but they still find it perfectly reasonable to demand the biggest cut. Unbelievable.. i dunno m8 , they did make the game so it seems reasonable that they deserve a cut when people use their IP to make money
Read, nowhere did I say they don't deserve a cut.
Edit: Btw: You should probably educate yourself better about this topic, I don't think you know anything about the Skyrim mod community, things are not as simple as you seem to want to portray them.
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On April 27 2015 08:38 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 07:23 Penev wrote:On April 27 2015 06:25 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 03:01 Penev wrote:On April 25 2015 20:43 SixStrings wrote:
Saying 'modders have to be supported' is simply absurd. They have been supported all along, those who created quality mods have always been financially supported by the community.
Now Valve are taking a cut from that. A huge one. Your average modder won't have more money than before... Actually it's Bethesda who takes the biggest cut. It's: Author: 25% Bethesda: 40% Valve: 35% but the mod author can choose to give one or more "service providers" 5% like Nexus for instance, making it 25-40-30-5 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/? Bethesda is taking money from people that made their game WORK. Modders built patches that Bethesda should have PAID developpers to make... Yeah it makes total sense.... Imagine if the "Unofficial Skyrim Patch" etc. would disappear behind a pay wall; They'd get 40% of the fixes they should've implemented themselves in the first place :D What really rubs me the wrong way is that the great and immense Skyrim/ Bethesda mod community gave them so much extremely positive advertisement for their games FOR FREE(!) but they still find it perfectly reasonable to demand the biggest cut. Unbelievable.. i dunno m8 , they did make the game so it seems reasonable that they deserve a cut when people use their IP to make money
They deserve money from people that FIXED their games ? Man...... i need to stop doing good work at home so i can get paid by the guy that'll come fixing my shit.
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EPT
