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On April 24 2015 10:10 G3CKO wrote:
Honestly very very few people in the modding community, including me, think this is a good thing.
I made total conversions and major mod projects for 16 years.
I have yet to see a single good thing come from involving money with modding outside of donations.
But modding was already dying before this happened. The kind of people games attract these days are not real modders. Take, for example, all of starcraft 2. People who have no aspirations to push into creative design and originality, the reliability on popularity and rating bullshit.
What valve has done is only made that problem a thousand times worse.
Anyone who is serious about modding has stuck with older games or moved on to independent game development by now. I'm glad I jumped ship when I did.
5/5
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On April 27 2015 15:34 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 08:38 KelsierSC wrote:On April 27 2015 07:23 Penev wrote:On April 27 2015 06:25 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 03:01 Penev wrote:On April 25 2015 20:43 SixStrings wrote:
Saying 'modders have to be supported' is simply absurd. They have been supported all along, those who created quality mods have always been financially supported by the community.
Now Valve are taking a cut from that. A huge one. Your average modder won't have more money than before... Actually it's Bethesda who takes the biggest cut. It's: Author: 25% Bethesda: 40% Valve: 35% but the mod author can choose to give one or more "service providers" 5% like Nexus for instance, making it 25-40-30-5 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/? Bethesda is taking money from people that made their game WORK. Modders built patches that Bethesda should have PAID developpers to make... Yeah it makes total sense.... Imagine if the "Unofficial Skyrim Patch" etc. would disappear behind a pay wall; They'd get 40% of the fixes they should've implemented themselves in the first place :D What really rubs me the wrong way is that the great and immense Skyrim/ Bethesda mod community gave them so much extremely positive advertisement for their games FOR FREE(!) but they still find it perfectly reasonable to demand the biggest cut. Unbelievable.. i dunno m8 , they did make the game so it seems reasonable that they deserve a cut when people use their IP to make money They deserve money from people that FIXED their games ? Man...... i need to stop doing good work at home so i can get paid by the guy that'll come fixing my shit.
Terrible Analogy
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On April 27 2015 23:51 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 15:34 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 08:38 KelsierSC wrote:On April 27 2015 07:23 Penev wrote:On April 27 2015 06:25 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 03:01 Penev wrote:On April 25 2015 20:43 SixStrings wrote:
Saying 'modders have to be supported' is simply absurd. They have been supported all along, those who created quality mods have always been financially supported by the community.
Now Valve are taking a cut from that. A huge one. Your average modder won't have more money than before... Actually it's Bethesda who takes the biggest cut. It's: Author: 25% Bethesda: 40% Valve: 35% but the mod author can choose to give one or more "service providers" 5% like Nexus for instance, making it 25-40-30-5 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/? Bethesda is taking money from people that made their game WORK. Modders built patches that Bethesda should have PAID developpers to make... Yeah it makes total sense.... Imagine if the "Unofficial Skyrim Patch" etc. would disappear behind a pay wall; They'd get 40% of the fixes they should've implemented themselves in the first place :D What really rubs me the wrong way is that the great and immense Skyrim/ Bethesda mod community gave them so much extremely positive advertisement for their games FOR FREE(!) but they still find it perfectly reasonable to demand the biggest cut. Unbelievable.. i dunno m8 , they did make the game so it seems reasonable that they deserve a cut when people use their IP to make money They deserve money from people that FIXED their games ? Man...... i need to stop doing good work at home so i can get paid by the guy that'll come fixing my shit. Terrible Analogy
In what is it a terrible analogy ? You say they deserve a cut when people use their IP to make money. Well... Modders made the game sell too. Remember Arma2 ? DayZ contributed to selling so much of Arma 2
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On April 28 2015 01:16 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 23:51 KelsierSC wrote:On April 27 2015 15:34 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 08:38 KelsierSC wrote:On April 27 2015 07:23 Penev wrote:On April 27 2015 06:25 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 03:01 Penev wrote:On April 25 2015 20:43 SixStrings wrote:
Saying 'modders have to be supported' is simply absurd. They have been supported all along, those who created quality mods have always been financially supported by the community.
Now Valve are taking a cut from that. A huge one. Your average modder won't have more money than before... Actually it's Bethesda who takes the biggest cut. It's: Author: 25% Bethesda: 40% Valve: 35% but the mod author can choose to give one or more "service providers" 5% like Nexus for instance, making it 25-40-30-5 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/? Bethesda is taking money from people that made their game WORK. Modders built patches that Bethesda should have PAID developpers to make... Yeah it makes total sense.... Imagine if the "Unofficial Skyrim Patch" etc. would disappear behind a pay wall; They'd get 40% of the fixes they should've implemented themselves in the first place :D What really rubs me the wrong way is that the great and immense Skyrim/ Bethesda mod community gave them so much extremely positive advertisement for their games FOR FREE(!) but they still find it perfectly reasonable to demand the biggest cut. Unbelievable.. i dunno m8 , they did make the game so it seems reasonable that they deserve a cut when people use their IP to make money They deserve money from people that FIXED their games ? Man...... i need to stop doing good work at home so i can get paid by the guy that'll come fixing my shit. Terrible Analogy In what is it a terrible analogy ? You say they deserve a cut when people use their IP to make money. Well... Modders made the game sell too. Remember Arma2 ? DayZ contributed to selling so much of Arma 2
dunno m8 think skyrim was selling pretty good before the mods came out
edit - I think dayz was a free mod aswell so i don't really see your point with that at all
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On April 28 2015 03:15 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 01:16 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 23:51 KelsierSC wrote:On April 27 2015 15:34 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 08:38 KelsierSC wrote:On April 27 2015 07:23 Penev wrote:On April 27 2015 06:25 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 03:01 Penev wrote:On April 25 2015 20:43 SixStrings wrote:
Saying 'modders have to be supported' is simply absurd. They have been supported all along, those who created quality mods have always been financially supported by the community.
Now Valve are taking a cut from that. A huge one. Your average modder won't have more money than before... Actually it's Bethesda who takes the biggest cut. It's: Author: 25% Bethesda: 40% Valve: 35% but the mod author can choose to give one or more "service providers" 5% like Nexus for instance, making it 25-40-30-5 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/? Bethesda is taking money from people that made their game WORK. Modders built patches that Bethesda should have PAID developpers to make... Yeah it makes total sense.... Imagine if the "Unofficial Skyrim Patch" etc. would disappear behind a pay wall; They'd get 40% of the fixes they should've implemented themselves in the first place :D What really rubs me the wrong way is that the great and immense Skyrim/ Bethesda mod community gave them so much extremely positive advertisement for their games FOR FREE(!) but they still find it perfectly reasonable to demand the biggest cut. Unbelievable.. i dunno m8 , they did make the game so it seems reasonable that they deserve a cut when people use their IP to make money They deserve money from people that FIXED their games ? Man...... i need to stop doing good work at home so i can get paid by the guy that'll come fixing my shit. Terrible Analogy In what is it a terrible analogy ? You say they deserve a cut when people use their IP to make money. Well... Modders made the game sell too. Remember Arma2 ? DayZ contributed to selling so much of Arma 2 dunno m8 think skyrim was selling pretty good before the mods came out edit - I think dayz was a free mod aswell so i don't really see your point with that at all
Elder Scrolls games are very well known for their exquisite mods, a lot of people buy them just for that. It's the best advertising you can ask for; Improved replayability (I know, not a word) and you don't even have to do anything for it. All for free of course.
I remember playing early Skyrim and discussing it the next day at work; How obstacles you had to overcome not to break a quest were quite amusing to me (I'm weird like that not only according to my colleagues at the time).
The state of the game without the bug fixing mods (yes, you did just read that) is quite disappointing tbh.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On April 28 2015 03:29 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 03:15 KelsierSC wrote:On April 28 2015 01:16 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 23:51 KelsierSC wrote:On April 27 2015 15:34 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 08:38 KelsierSC wrote:On April 27 2015 07:23 Penev wrote:On April 27 2015 06:25 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 03:01 Penev wrote:On April 25 2015 20:43 SixStrings wrote:
Saying 'modders have to be supported' is simply absurd. They have been supported all along, those who created quality mods have always been financially supported by the community.
Now Valve are taking a cut from that. A huge one. Your average modder won't have more money than before... Actually it's Bethesda who takes the biggest cut. It's: Author: 25% Bethesda: 40% Valve: 35% but the mod author can choose to give one or more "service providers" 5% like Nexus for instance, making it 25-40-30-5 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/? Bethesda is taking money from people that made their game WORK. Modders built patches that Bethesda should have PAID developpers to make... Yeah it makes total sense.... Imagine if the "Unofficial Skyrim Patch" etc. would disappear behind a pay wall; They'd get 40% of the fixes they should've implemented themselves in the first place :D What really rubs me the wrong way is that the great and immense Skyrim/ Bethesda mod community gave them so much extremely positive advertisement for their games FOR FREE(!) but they still find it perfectly reasonable to demand the biggest cut. Unbelievable.. i dunno m8 , they did make the game so it seems reasonable that they deserve a cut when people use their IP to make money They deserve money from people that FIXED their games ? Man...... i need to stop doing good work at home so i can get paid by the guy that'll come fixing my shit. Terrible Analogy In what is it a terrible analogy ? You say they deserve a cut when people use their IP to make money. Well... Modders made the game sell too. Remember Arma2 ? DayZ contributed to selling so much of Arma 2 dunno m8 think skyrim was selling pretty good before the mods came out edit - I think dayz was a free mod aswell so i don't really see your point with that at all Elder Scrolls games are very well known for their exquisite mods, a lot of people buy them just for that. It's the best advertising you can ask for; Improved replayability (I know, not a word) and you don't even have to do anything for it. All for free of course. I remember playing early Skyrim and discussing it the next day at work; How obstacles you had to overcome not to break a quest were quite amusing to me (I'm weird like that not only according to my colleagues at the time). The state of the game without the bug fixing mods (yes, you did just read that) is quite disappointing tbh.
I don't have statistical evidence but I imagine a lot more people bought skyrim because it was fucking skyrim not because elder scrolls has a good modding community.
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On April 28 2015 03:36 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 03:29 Penev wrote:On April 28 2015 03:15 KelsierSC wrote:On April 28 2015 01:16 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 23:51 KelsierSC wrote:On April 27 2015 15:34 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 08:38 KelsierSC wrote:On April 27 2015 07:23 Penev wrote:On April 27 2015 06:25 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 03:01 Penev wrote:[quote] Actually it's Bethesda who takes the biggest cut. It's: Author: 25% Bethesda: 40% Valve: 35% but the mod author can choose to give one or more "service providers" 5% like Nexus for instance, making it 25-40-30-5 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/? Bethesda is taking money from people that made their game WORK. Modders built patches that Bethesda should have PAID developpers to make... Yeah it makes total sense.... Imagine if the "Unofficial Skyrim Patch" etc. would disappear behind a pay wall; They'd get 40% of the fixes they should've implemented themselves in the first place :D What really rubs me the wrong way is that the great and immense Skyrim/ Bethesda mod community gave them so much extremely positive advertisement for their games FOR FREE(!) but they still find it perfectly reasonable to demand the biggest cut. Unbelievable.. i dunno m8 , they did make the game so it seems reasonable that they deserve a cut when people use their IP to make money They deserve money from people that FIXED their games ? Man...... i need to stop doing good work at home so i can get paid by the guy that'll come fixing my shit. Terrible Analogy In what is it a terrible analogy ? You say they deserve a cut when people use their IP to make money. Well... Modders made the game sell too. Remember Arma2 ? DayZ contributed to selling so much of Arma 2 dunno m8 think skyrim was selling pretty good before the mods came out edit - I think dayz was a free mod aswell so i don't really see your point with that at all Elder Scrolls games are very well known for their exquisite mods, a lot of people buy them just for that. It's the best advertising you can ask for; Improved replayability (I know, not a word) and you don't even have to do anything for it. All for free of course. I remember playing early Skyrim and discussing it the next day at work; How obstacles you had to overcome not to break a quest were quite amusing to me (I'm weird like that not only according to my colleagues at the time). The state of the game without the bug fixing mods (yes, you did just read that) is quite disappointing tbh. I don't have statistical evidence but I imagine a lot more people bought skyrim because it was fucking skyrim not because elder scrolls has a good modding community.
Of course, but still a lot of people bought it for the mods too.
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I played ES4 on PC and not on console because of the mods, so it affected my decision making in that way at least. Also, having a whole diversity of mods available for you to try out def gets you excited about the possibilities in the game.
If there is a pay wall for each mod, it's going to limit the # of mods you use, assuming you'll pay for them
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On April 28 2015 03:36 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 03:29 Penev wrote:On April 28 2015 03:15 KelsierSC wrote:On April 28 2015 01:16 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 23:51 KelsierSC wrote:On April 27 2015 15:34 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 08:38 KelsierSC wrote:On April 27 2015 07:23 Penev wrote:On April 27 2015 06:25 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 27 2015 03:01 Penev wrote:[quote] Actually it's Bethesda who takes the biggest cut. It's: Author: 25% Bethesda: 40% Valve: 35% but the mod author can choose to give one or more "service providers" 5% like Nexus for instance, making it 25-40-30-5 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/? Bethesda is taking money from people that made their game WORK. Modders built patches that Bethesda should have PAID developpers to make... Yeah it makes total sense.... Imagine if the "Unofficial Skyrim Patch" etc. would disappear behind a pay wall; They'd get 40% of the fixes they should've implemented themselves in the first place :D What really rubs me the wrong way is that the great and immense Skyrim/ Bethesda mod community gave them so much extremely positive advertisement for their games FOR FREE(!) but they still find it perfectly reasonable to demand the biggest cut. Unbelievable.. i dunno m8 , they did make the game so it seems reasonable that they deserve a cut when people use their IP to make money They deserve money from people that FIXED their games ? Man...... i need to stop doing good work at home so i can get paid by the guy that'll come fixing my shit. Terrible Analogy In what is it a terrible analogy ? You say they deserve a cut when people use their IP to make money. Well... Modders made the game sell too. Remember Arma2 ? DayZ contributed to selling so much of Arma 2 dunno m8 think skyrim was selling pretty good before the mods came out edit - I think dayz was a free mod aswell so i don't really see your point with that at all Elder Scrolls games are very well known for their exquisite mods, a lot of people buy them just for that. It's the best advertising you can ask for; Improved replayability (I know, not a word) and you don't even have to do anything for it. All for free of course. I remember playing early Skyrim and discussing it the next day at work; How obstacles you had to overcome not to break a quest were quite amusing to me (I'm weird like that not only according to my colleagues at the time). The state of the game without the bug fixing mods (yes, you did just read that) is quite disappointing tbh. I don't have statistical evidence but I imagine a lot more people bought skyrim because it was fucking skyrim not because elder scrolls has a good modding community.
and those "lot more people" are just casual bandwagon-ners buying the latest hype game,
what do they know about the free sharing modding community which breathe much replayability and longevity into the TES series with huge quality mods that are not just ripoff reskins of swords selling for 50usd
well at least valve had the good sense to retract their scheme. the other valve execs who are responsible for this in the first place are probably just let off the hook and coming up with more subtle evil schemes.
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On April 27 2015 06:11 Djzapz wrote:
Still taking 35% as the middleman is fucked up.
it's more than just being a middleman. it's valve giving access to an extremely popular platform that has millions of subscribers. that's what the fee is: paying for exposure that dwarfs that of a personal site, a modding community, etc.
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On April 29 2015 00:14 QuanticHawk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 06:11 Djzapz wrote:
Still taking 35% as the middleman is fucked up. it's more than just being a middleman. it's valve giving access to an extremely popular platform that has millions of subscribers. that's what the fee is: paying for exposure that dwarfs that of a personal site, a modding community, etc.
So you're basically saying slapping an exploitative fee on your quasi-monopoly service is fine because of the nature of the beast. I don't like the idea for some reason. And while I do recognize that exposure as a price, surely 35% cannot be that price. Charging 35% for doing very little while also benefiting from the added value of modding to your games (or other people's games you already make a profit on) is unreasonable.
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Was there anything wrong with the current system that Valve would contribute to? We go to Nexus, download mod, and put the files in the game folder. ezpz. If there were issues like crashing or just the mod not working as intended, you let the modder know.
Yeah valve platform so great. What would we ever do without steam. Oh I just don't know, besides typing in google "TES4 mods" and avoid the paywall altogether.
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I don't know what constitutes fair in this scenario, but my point is that they're quite a bit more than a middleman. There were nearly 10,000,000 steam users logged in at peak during the past 24hrs. That's what the 35% (or whatever % it ultimately is when they do launch this in full) buys you.
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EPT
