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Given that LotV beta is about to begin I remembered that I had sent in the email responses from the previous betas' feedback request.
The hots email I sent is below:
+ Show Spoiler +####### Begin Email ########
Hello again,
This is a notepad file that I've had on my desktop with my thoughts on how to make the game better overall, it is a semi-continuation of some of the changes of the original WoL beta feedback.
I have constantly shaped and revisited this since the original WoL beta until this point, updating it as units and maps have changed.
This list is with all HotS mechanic changes and current build changes in mind e.g.) Pylons no longer power high ground.
With the recent flux of ideas and opinions swarming around I feel this is an appropriate time to pitch these ideas, as it seems this would be as likely a time as any for them to be implemented.
I will start with primarily Protoss changes only, but this list is lengthy and goes into detail about almost every unit and the majority of upgrades. It also includes maps from the ladder and tournaments.
Not meaning to pull numbers out of my arse, but if you polled every professional player to list either 1 or 2 major problems/design flaws with the game, I can guarantee you that the list would be 95% made up of Forcefield and Infestors.
There is simply no way to balance forcefield. It is either too strong or the opposite end of the spectrum. It stunts play and game development, and also hurts map development immensely. The change or removal of this ability alone will simply open up more possibilities than any other alteration to the game bar none.
The Terran and Zerg changes I'm proposing were given the same amount of detail, if not more, and have all Match-ups taken into consideration. (Mirrors, PvZ, PvT, ZvT, ZvP). Just to preview: Fungal design is more similar to its initial role of locking down units, 'Free' units have been slightly overhauled (Infested Terrans, Locusts, Broodlings, Mules[to a much different extent]). Terran changes are too lengthy to briefly summarize as almost everything coincides with each other. But the idea is to have terran economy revamped. Focal points being adjusting the mule and making calldown supply the more attractive option, and eliminating the 180+ army supply Mass orbital style that somewhat plagues WoL.
If this is something that will strike any interest please reply and I will gladly include the rest of the changes. I only wish to help see the game grow and be a more enjoyable experience for the players and spectators alike.
Unit and Gameplay changes:
'Core' Early game units:
Zealot, Marine, Zergling:
Increase Marine size/scale, Zergling size/scale increased. Zealot reamains unchanged. (Marine will be bigger than a ling)
Protoss:
Stalker - Now costs 125/25. Blink cooldown increased to 14 seconds. Attack upgrade reinstated to +1/+1 (up from +1/+0) (noted that Stalkers in their current form remain as the lowest dps per cost units in the game, only made useable by their ability to be recycled with micro/blink)
Sentry: 'Forcefield' removed from the game, Spell has been replaced by Maelstrom.
'Maelstrom' - 50 energy, forcefield AoE range. Snares enemy units for 8 seconds, movement speed slowed by 50%. (Need to see this in actual play to determine proper duration and slow amount, however I feel like this is a good baseline) (Similar ability was added to the oracle, but it currently does not mesh well at all with forcefield.)
High Templar unchanged*
Observer - Gravitic booster upgrade Now costs 75/75 and also increased Sight/Detection range in addtion to movement speed.
Mothership core: Extremely Slow movement speed reinstated. Gets a speed increase near protoss structures. -> 0.4 Movespeed base, Increased to 2.0 when near structures. (similar to queens and creep)
*New 'Recall' removed, vanilla Mass recall reinstated.
*Mothership core regular attack increased to 7 range and can also attack while moving. Purify again works only on the mothership core, Armor and Shield armor are increased by 10 each during purify.
*Energize Readded. When Energize is cast on a unit that unit gains its maximum energy in addition to its current energy, and will slowly decrease until it reaches its maximum energy. (e.g. warp in High templar -> energize -> HT at 250/200 energy, slowly deminishing until back at 200/200 energy)
Carrier - Build time reduced by 20 seconds
Colossus - These ideas are the most unpolished and nonconcrete. The general idea is that the unit needs to be slightly weaker, but more accessible and able to supplement army more, rather than have the army be there to protect it. Potentially cheaper, 250/150/5 with an overall DPS nerf, but balanced in a way that has its attack damage increased, and attack speed decreased, making it more rewarding for proper micro.
****
Dark Shrine - This structure Has been removed from the game
Dark Templar - This unit now requires Templar Archives
Templar Archives - Cost increased to 200/200, Build Time increased to 80 seconds.
****Added due to mothership core detection/spore changes/widowmine
Oracle - Omitted until can make judgement on changes.
//end protoss changes
Again, If this is something that will strike any interest please reply and I will gladly include the Terran and Zerg specific portions. As this was mainly just a list I did not include a reason for every change, and if anything needs further clarification let me know.
####### End Email ########
Unfortunately this one fell on deaf ears, but at least they acknowledged and implemented some of my WoL suggestions during the initial beta. (Main points in that one were UI issues, map size, and forcefields - basically things I saw that infringed on the fun and fluidity of the game.)
I've always been really hopeful and passionate about games that I've played.
The two biggest things that hurt SC2 was the lead developers were too arrogant and inflexible(the comments leaked about the team meetings were pretty appalling), and trying to cater the 'main' game to a casual audience. (This is what custom games/UMS was for - not ladder.)
I would include the 'social dungeon' aspect, but almost every game now is following this trend so I'm not sure what to make of it.
Here's hoping that LotV gameplay is a step in the right direction. I'm looking forward to playing it.
 
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Sweden33719 Posts
What were those leaked comments? I missed that.
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From what I have seen recently the design team has become much more open to feedback and experimentation, which is already a monumental step in the right direction. I am really looking forward to what can be done in lotv, it is already looking great!
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Yeah I've also never heard of any leaked comments. Source?
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On March 31 2015 22:19 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
What were those leaked comments? I missed that.
The gist of the comments were that pretty much every suggestion was near instantly discarded or rebuked. And that DK/Browder were very arrogant and unapproachable (David Kim more-so if memory serves correct).
On March 31 2015 23:31 NihiLStarcraft wrote:
Yeah I've also never heard of any leaked comments. Source?
I actually had a link but it is now dead. It was from 2008. Also this was assured to me by somebody that I know working for them.
On March 31 2015 22:29 Motlu wrote:
From what I have seen recently the design team has become much more open to feedback and experimentation, which is already a monumental step in the right direction. I am really looking forward to what can be done in lotv, it is already looking great!
They definitely have been, but unfortunately they didn't take that protocol from the get-go and it just comes across as more of a forced hand issue.
Anyway didn't intend for this blog to come across as ranty - just reflecting on what I would have liked to have seen/what could have been and looking forward to the beta.
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On April 01 2015 01:17 Agh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 22:19 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
What were those leaked comments? I missed that. The gist of the comments were that pretty much every suggestion was near instantly discarded or rebuked. And that DK/Browder were very arrogant and unapproachable (David Kim more-so if memory serves correct). Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 23:31 NihiLStarcraft wrote:
Yeah I've also never heard of any leaked comments. Source? I actually had a link but it is now dead. It was from 2008. Also this was assured to me by somebody that I know working for them.
This sounds very similar to what you are saying, maybe it's this?: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2p2z30/i_was_getting_pulled_into_meetings_over_a_period/
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It wasn't the Pardo interview that I was referencing,although it does reaffirm how difficult it was to actually push changes through.
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I haven't heard that either Agh. But there was an AMA 2 years ago from someone claiming to have worked in QA there saying some of those things. Not sure about the credibility.
Reddit account was deleted. But this bot preserved the answers: http://www.reddit.com/r/tabled/comments/1frr4n/
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I left out some stuff I transcribed from Pardo interview, like this bit on the teaching/mentoring culture within Blizzard:
One of the ways I've been successful is I have a very high standard. I'm very good explaining and walking people through things and I'm very good at working through designs with people and showing them thought process and getting them in there.
And I also think I'm very direct and very honest. That's one of the areas where I see some people go wrong. I think the game industry is filled with a lot of really nice people. And I think that makes for really good work environments, but it's not always good for teaching. When you think about teaching, you need to be willing to tell people they're doing things wrong a lot. If you probably think about who are the most influential teachers in your life, they probably are some of your harshest critics, cause that's how you end up learning.
You don't learn by just getting pat on the back all the time. And what I've seen with a lot of the design talent at Blizzard; they think they're doing a great job. And then when I talk to their boss they're like: "Oh yeah, he's got all these challenges". And I'm like: "Well, does he know that?!". I think that's a real key thing. You need to be willing to be really direct and honest.
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Give Sentrys Maelstrom lol, ohhh goodness.
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On March 31 2015 19:13 Agh wrote:Given that LotV beta is about to begin I remembered that I had sent in the email responses from the previous betas' feedback request. The hots email I sent is below: + Show Spoiler +####### Begin Email ########
Hello again,
This is a notepad file that I've had on my desktop with my thoughts on how to make the game better overall, it is a semi-continuation of some of the changes of the original WoL beta feedback.
I have constantly shaped and revisited this since the original WoL beta until this point, updating it as units and maps have changed.
This list is with all HotS mechanic changes and current build changes in mind e.g.) Pylons no longer power high ground.
With the recent flux of ideas and opinions swarming around I feel this is an appropriate time to pitch these ideas, as it seems this would be as likely a time as any for them to be implemented.
I will start with primarily Protoss changes only, but this list is lengthy and goes into detail about almost every unit and the majority of upgrades. It also includes maps from the ladder and tournaments.
Not meaning to pull numbers out of my arse, but if you polled every professional player to list either 1 or 2 major problems/design flaws with the game, I can guarantee you that the list would be 95% made up of Forcefield and Infestors.
There is simply no way to balance forcefield. It is either too strong or the opposite end of the spectrum. It stunts play and game development, and also hurts map development immensely. The change or removal of this ability alone will simply open up more possibilities than any other alteration to the game bar none.
The Terran and Zerg changes I'm proposing were given the same amount of detail, if not more, and have all Match-ups taken into consideration. (Mirrors, PvZ, PvT, ZvT, ZvP). Just to preview: Fungal design is more similar to its initial role of locking down units, 'Free' units have been slightly overhauled (Infested Terrans, Locusts, Broodlings, Mules[to a much different extent]). Terran changes are too lengthy to briefly summarize as almost everything coincides with each other. But the idea is to have terran economy revamped. Focal points being adjusting the mule and making calldown supply the more attractive option, and eliminating the 180+ army supply Mass orbital style that somewhat plagues WoL.
If this is something that will strike any interest please reply and I will gladly include the rest of the changes. I only wish to help see the game grow and be a more enjoyable experience for the players and spectators alike.
Unit and Gameplay changes:
'Core' Early game units:
Zealot, Marine, Zergling:
Increase Marine size/scale, Zergling size/scale increased. Zealot reamains unchanged. (Marine will be bigger than a ling)
Protoss:
Stalker - Now costs 125/25. Blink cooldown increased to 14 seconds. Attack upgrade reinstated to +1/+1 (up from +1/+0) (noted that Stalkers in their current form remain as the lowest dps per cost units in the game, only made useable by their ability to be recycled with micro/blink)
Sentry: 'Forcefield' removed from the game, Spell has been replaced by Maelstrom.
'Maelstrom' - 50 energy, forcefield AoE range. Snares enemy units for 8 seconds, movement speed slowed by 50%. (Need to see this in actual play to determine proper duration and slow amount, however I feel like this is a good baseline) (Similar ability was added to the oracle, but it currently does not mesh well at all with forcefield.)
High Templar unchanged*
Observer - Gravitic booster upgrade Now costs 75/75 and also increased Sight/Detection range in addtion to movement speed.
Mothership core: Extremely Slow movement speed reinstated. Gets a speed increase near protoss structures. -> 0.4 Movespeed base, Increased to 2.0 when near structures. (similar to queens and creep)
*New 'Recall' removed, vanilla Mass recall reinstated.
*Mothership core regular attack increased to 7 range and can also attack while moving. Purify again works only on the mothership core, Armor and Shield armor are increased by 10 each during purify.
*Energize Readded. When Energize is cast on a unit that unit gains its maximum energy in addition to its current energy, and will slowly decrease until it reaches its maximum energy. (e.g. warp in High templar -> energize -> HT at 250/200 energy, slowly deminishing until back at 200/200 energy)
Carrier - Build time reduced by 20 seconds
Colossus - These ideas are the most unpolished and nonconcrete. The general idea is that the unit needs to be slightly weaker, but more accessible and able to supplement army more, rather than have the army be there to protect it. Potentially cheaper, 250/150/5 with an overall DPS nerf, but balanced in a way that has its attack damage increased, and attack speed decreased, making it more rewarding for proper micro.
****
Dark Shrine - This structure Has been removed from the game
Dark Templar - This unit now requires Templar Archives
Templar Archives - Cost increased to 200/200, Build Time increased to 80 seconds.
****Added due to mothership core detection/spore changes/widowmine
Oracle - Omitted until can make judgement on changes.
//end protoss changes
Again, If this is something that will strike any interest please reply and I will gladly include the Terran and Zerg specific portions. As this was mainly just a list I did not include a reason for every change, and if anything needs further clarification let me know.
####### End Email ######## Unfortunately this one fell on deaf ears, but at least they acknowledged and implemented some of my WoL suggestions during the initial beta. (Main points in that one were UI issues, map size, and forcefields - basically things I saw that infringed on the fun and fluidity of the game.) I've always been really hopeful and passionate about games that I've played. The two biggest things that hurt SC2 was the lead developers were too arrogant and inflexible(the comments leaked about the team meetings were pretty appalling), and trying to cater the 'main' game to a casual audience. (This is what custom games/UMS was for - not ladder.) I would include the 'social dungeon' aspect, but almost every game now is following this trend so I'm not sure what to make of it. Here's hoping that LotV gameplay is a step in the right direction. I'm looking forward to playing it.
Another BW nostalgic hating FF. Cmo'n, we're getting something decent for the Protoss, we just need them to fix our early game design and MSC. The other things work properly.
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On April 01 2015 08:00 JCoto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 19:13 Agh wrote:Given that LotV beta is about to begin I remembered that I had sent in the email responses from the previous betas' feedback request. The hots email I sent is below: + Show Spoiler +####### Begin Email ########
Hello again,
This is a notepad file that I've had on my desktop with my thoughts on how to make the game better overall, it is a semi-continuation of some of the changes of the original WoL beta feedback.
I have constantly shaped and revisited this since the original WoL beta until this point, updating it as units and maps have changed.
This list is with all HotS mechanic changes and current build changes in mind e.g.) Pylons no longer power high ground.
With the recent flux of ideas and opinions swarming around I feel this is an appropriate time to pitch these ideas, as it seems this would be as likely a time as any for them to be implemented.
I will start with primarily Protoss changes only, but this list is lengthy and goes into detail about almost every unit and the majority of upgrades. It also includes maps from the ladder and tournaments.
Not meaning to pull numbers out of my arse, but if you polled every professional player to list either 1 or 2 major problems/design flaws with the game, I can guarantee you that the list would be 95% made up of Forcefield and Infestors.
There is simply no way to balance forcefield. It is either too strong or the opposite end of the spectrum. It stunts play and game development, and also hurts map development immensely. The change or removal of this ability alone will simply open up more possibilities than any other alteration to the game bar none.
The Terran and Zerg changes I'm proposing were given the same amount of detail, if not more, and have all Match-ups taken into consideration. (Mirrors, PvZ, PvT, ZvT, ZvP). Just to preview: Fungal design is more similar to its initial role of locking down units, 'Free' units have been slightly overhauled (Infested Terrans, Locusts, Broodlings, Mules[to a much different extent]). Terran changes are too lengthy to briefly summarize as almost everything coincides with each other. But the idea is to have terran economy revamped. Focal points being adjusting the mule and making calldown supply the more attractive option, and eliminating the 180+ army supply Mass orbital style that somewhat plagues WoL.
If this is something that will strike any interest please reply and I will gladly include the rest of the changes. I only wish to help see the game grow and be a more enjoyable experience for the players and spectators alike.
Unit and Gameplay changes:
'Core' Early game units:
Zealot, Marine, Zergling:
Increase Marine size/scale, Zergling size/scale increased. Zealot reamains unchanged. (Marine will be bigger than a ling)
Protoss:
Stalker - Now costs 125/25. Blink cooldown increased to 14 seconds. Attack upgrade reinstated to +1/+1 (up from +1/+0) (noted that Stalkers in their current form remain as the lowest dps per cost units in the game, only made useable by their ability to be recycled with micro/blink)
Sentry: 'Forcefield' removed from the game, Spell has been replaced by Maelstrom.
'Maelstrom' - 50 energy, forcefield AoE range. Snares enemy units for 8 seconds, movement speed slowed by 50%. (Need to see this in actual play to determine proper duration and slow amount, however I feel like this is a good baseline) (Similar ability was added to the oracle, but it currently does not mesh well at all with forcefield.)
High Templar unchanged*
Observer - Gravitic booster upgrade Now costs 75/75 and also increased Sight/Detection range in addtion to movement speed.
Mothership core: Extremely Slow movement speed reinstated. Gets a speed increase near protoss structures. -> 0.4 Movespeed base, Increased to 2.0 when near structures. (similar to queens and creep)
*New 'Recall' removed, vanilla Mass recall reinstated.
*Mothership core regular attack increased to 7 range and can also attack while moving. Purify again works only on the mothership core, Armor and Shield armor are increased by 10 each during purify.
*Energize Readded. When Energize is cast on a unit that unit gains its maximum energy in addition to its current energy, and will slowly decrease until it reaches its maximum energy. (e.g. warp in High templar -> energize -> HT at 250/200 energy, slowly deminishing until back at 200/200 energy)
Carrier - Build time reduced by 20 seconds
Colossus - These ideas are the most unpolished and nonconcrete. The general idea is that the unit needs to be slightly weaker, but more accessible and able to supplement army more, rather than have the army be there to protect it. Potentially cheaper, 250/150/5 with an overall DPS nerf, but balanced in a way that has its attack damage increased, and attack speed decreased, making it more rewarding for proper micro.
****
Dark Shrine - This structure Has been removed from the game
Dark Templar - This unit now requires Templar Archives
Templar Archives - Cost increased to 200/200, Build Time increased to 80 seconds.
****Added due to mothership core detection/spore changes/widowmine
Oracle - Omitted until can make judgement on changes.
//end protoss changes
Again, If this is something that will strike any interest please reply and I will gladly include the Terran and Zerg specific portions. As this was mainly just a list I did not include a reason for every change, and if anything needs further clarification let me know.
####### End Email ######## Unfortunately this one fell on deaf ears, but at least they acknowledged and implemented some of my WoL suggestions during the initial beta. (Main points in that one were UI issues, map size, and forcefields - basically things I saw that infringed on the fun and fluidity of the game.) I've always been really hopeful and passionate about games that I've played. The two biggest things that hurt SC2 was the lead developers were too arrogant and inflexible(the comments leaked about the team meetings were pretty appalling), and trying to cater the 'main' game to a casual audience. (This is what custom games/UMS was for - not ladder.) I would include the 'social dungeon' aspect, but almost every game now is following this trend so I'm not sure what to make of it. Here's hoping that LotV gameplay is a step in the right direction. I'm looking forward to playing it. Another BW nostalgic hating FF. Cmo'n, we're getting something decent for the Protoss, we just need them to fix our early game design and MSC. The other things work properly.
FF is stupid lol. No this isn't BW nostolgic, it's just retarded just like fungal growth back in the day. Protoss shouldn't have to rely on a stupid spell like FF in the early game.
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EPT
