On December 16 2014 02:44 CosmicSpiral wrote: And yet while you say this, you are thinking "this applies to everyone but me".
Yes, I'm comparing the opinions of others to my own, and deeming my opions are of higher quality. The idea that something could apply to pretty much everyone else and not me is not incorrect in of itself. At that point you might as well just argue the majority is always correct.
How quaint. It's not like most people believe the exact same thing, but I'm sure you're a special exception.
You are assuming that he is wrong. But some people simply are right. Simply better than others. We don't know whether this person is or isn't.
"You are assuming that he isn't President Obama. But some person simply is President Obama. We don't know whether this person is or isn't."
"You are assuming that he isn't a Chinese billionaire. But some people simply are Chinese billionaires. We don't know whether this person is or isn't."
"You are assuming that he isn't in the <1% peak of human intelligence. But some people simply are in the <1% peak of human intelligence. We don't know whether this person is or isn't."
Pro logic tip 101: When a person makes an extraordinary claim, we don't assume the validity of a positive affirmation based on probability. That is an argument from ignorance. Instead we assume modus tollens until sufficient evidence is provided.
On December 16 2014 02:44 CosmicSpiral wrote: And yet while you say this, you are thinking "this applies to everyone but me".
Yes, I'm comparing the opinions of others to my own, and deeming my opions are of higher quality. The idea that something could apply to pretty much everyone else and not me is not incorrect in of itself. At that point you might as well just argue the majority is always correct.
How quaint. It's not like most people believe the exact same thing, but I'm sure you're a special exception.
What matters is Why they believe that. If you sit back and never reveal it just because you could be wrong or some person could find some flaw in it, you leave yourself vulnerable to having very stunted ideas, they can't develop or grow. So yes, I believe my ideas tend to be better than those around me, and so does pretty much everyone else, but what's the point in hiding that or pretending like I don't think that? Also, yes, I am a special exception, I actually have confidence in my opinions, and the confidence to look at where they may be wrong as well. How about you just get straight to your point and reveal how you think I Should think about it.
Your weak-ass argument is just rehashing circular logic. You have no schema for determining what constitutes a "better" opinion other than two facets of your personality (the claims are equally dubious considering what you've posted in the past), which are irrelevant to the actual state of the opinion.
Post an opinion and prove the following:
A) Your opinion is valid. B) Your opinion is sound. C) Your opinion is lucid. D) Your opinion is sufficiently descriptive so it can incorporate new evidence and respond to permutations of the hypothetical that produce a different stance. E) Your opinion is as complete as pragmatically possible.
And I'll judge whether the structure of your opinions have any merit. You are certainly not in a position to do so.
Let me take a moment to discuss relativism with you weirdos. Oh fuck it whatever. This is is too fucked up.
Anyway OP most of what you and I believe about most things are just values and knowledge that come from other places, we often don't know where or when we acquired them, we don't know who we're "parroting" because in many cases we've integrated the things that we've heard to our own sets of beliefs about the world and whatnot. So it's not really parroting, we all have various influences, we use our own current beliefs and "anti-bullshit self-defense mechanisms" to weed out some of the wrong information (and some of the accurate information too). If you discuss anything that matters in the slightest, your opinions are built on the shoulders of people who have thought about the things before you did. Their arguments are at least reasoned in some way (in many cases).
So the parroting is not the problem, not at all, it's a symptom. The problem, and we're all guilty of this, is that we're flawed and we have no good way of deciding what's true and what isn't. So the problem is not people, but rather, our lack of an ability to think the world in an effective way.
We could argue all day about whether "rationality" is the correct way to look at the world, it certainly is in some cases, but if we were to assume that rationality actually is the prism through which we want to form our beliefs and opinions, then it's obvious that many people struggle with that. In the end, if we want people to be rational, it's pointless to whine about how people are stupid, but rather, we should try to pursue some form of basic education on logic and critical thinking for our children.
Now that's proper criticism of our society. People are not encouraged to think critically. People do parrot the last shit they heard ad nauseam but it's not because they're dumbshit, it's because they're taught to (or rather, they're not taught to think, they're taught to execute predefined tasks). Now being taught about critical thinking and logic in a philosophy class won't "fix" us, we're always going to have stupid opinions. I'm sure many of the things that I believe are fucking stupid and have no basis in reality, same with you, but that's okay. But people might do better if they were taught that not everything you see on TV is true (for instance). And they're told that, but they don't believe it, not really. I don't believe it either, not always.
I would bet some serious money that you watched too many TV shows (or other media, I suppose) with anti-heroes when you were younger, LOVED their cynicism because WOW THAT'S SO DIFFERENT, UNIQUE, THOUGHTFUL etc. etc, and started slowly modelling yourself after them because you NEED TO BE DIFFERENT, UNIQUE, THOUGHTFUL etc. etc.
Now you're basically a walking fallacy (take a logic class, maybe; CosmicSpiral has some damn good points) who hemorrhages cynicism that some philosopher with Dysthymia wrote down, and just so happens to sound exactly like what you imagine all your idols' thoughts to sound like. News flash: nobody cares about that type of person in real life because there's no script to force them into a relationship. Also, you're wasting your life by shitting all over everybody in it. Get over it; get over yourself.
EDIT: I actually sound like quite the asshole here, so I'll just add a few things. What I'm trying to say is that cynicism, to me, is more of a parroting perspective than optimism. But you don't have to agree with this. Assuming my previous statement is wrong, for arguments sake, cynicism certainly leads inevitably to isolation and a sort of solipsistic arrogance that eventually becomes some form of depression or other adverse side-effects. Eg. "The world sucks, and I'm the only one who is reasonable. What's the point?"
It flat-out does not make sense to me why you'd want to think like this (returning to my quirky, unique, anti-hero statement) when more frequent optimism is so much undeniably better. This implied assertion that cynicism > optimism is what really bothers me. Hell, even faked optimism has measurably better health effects than no optimism.
I wasn't going to respond because many others have the same sentiment.
However, Demon your blog comes off as "I am better than you. Don't you dare try to give me your advice, because I already know everything."
Did you expect to get many sympathetic replies that will defend your honor and words? Or were you ready for all the people that want to say "fuck you asshole" (well not verbatim)?
Also, why do you feel it is rude when someone offers advice? Unsolicited advice or not, I highly doubt they are thinking "Let me be rude and give him some advice." My assumption is this thought process, "Oh this guy looks like he can use some words of advice and assurance. Let me give him the advice my great-great-great-great grandmother passed down through the generations, which helped me through my darkest time".
As well, its possible to dismiss someone's advice politely. Or do you feel it is necessary to shoot down someone's advice because you don't like it?
When I re-read your post, my impression of you is that of a self-entitled teenager that has a bad case of the "I know everything already". I could be totally wrong, But it doesn't matter, because you won't listen to my advice anyways.
PS. ninazerg never failed to amuse me with your witty replies.
On December 17 2014 07:08 Meepman wrote: I would bet some serious money that you watched too many TV shows (or other media, I suppose) with anti-heroes when you were younger, LOVED their cynicism because WOW THAT'S SO DIFFERENT, UNIQUE, THOUGHTFUL etc. etc, and started slowly modelling yourself after them because you NEED TO BE DIFFERENT, UNIQUE, THOUGHTFUL etc. etc.
Now you're basically a walking fallacy (take a logic class, maybe; CosmicSpiral has some damn good points) who hemorrhages cynicism that some philosopher with Dysthymia wrote down, and just so happens to sound exactly like what you imagine all your idols' thoughts to sound like. News flash: nobody cares about that type of person in real life because there's no script to force them into a relationship. Also, you're wasting your life by shitting all over everybody in it. Get over it; get over yourself.
EDIT: I actually sound like quite the asshole here, so I'll just add a few things. What I'm trying to say is that cynicism, to me, is more of a parroting perspective than optimism. But you don't have to agree with this. Assuming my previous statement is wrong, for arguments sake, cynicism certainly leads inevitably to isolation and a sort of solipsistic arrogance that eventually becomes some form of depression or other adverse side-effects. Eg. "The world sucks, and I'm the only one who is reasonable. What's the point?"
It flat-out does not make sense to me why you'd want to think like this (returning to my quirky, unique, anti-hero statement) when more frequent optimism is so much undeniably better. This implied assertion that cynicism > optimism is what really bothers me. Hell, even faked optimism has measurably better health effects than no optimism.
I didn't get this attitude from tv, a lot of it is just the side-effects of my life and the way I just happen to be. I have found it strange so far though the way people have described me. I think in person if I were to hear someone describe me this way or treated me like this is how I'm being I'd just get annoyed and get caught up in the whole, they're misunderstanding me again, blah. The thing is I'm not really sure how I do come off most of the time, because as much as people may have trouble identifying with me because of how different I am, that contributes to my difficulty understanding others as well. Basically the more different two people are, the further that has to be gone in order to be able to relate.
Tbh the idea of trying to be like some character from a movie or tv show is a bit hard for me to relate to. I really don't like tv or movies much, same with philosophy too really. If you want an idea of my childhood most of it was spent up in my room playing with lego. I guess most of my life I didn't really have anyone I looked up to or saw much in, the most I learned from observing other people wasn't on how to be but rather on how not to be (learning from watching their mistakes).
On December 17 2014 09:47 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: Well this blog was slightly entertaining.
I wasn't going to respond because many others have the same sentiment.
However, Demon your blog comes off as "I am better than you. Don't you dare try to give me your advice, because I already know everything."
Did you expect to get many sympathetic replies that will defend your honor and words? Or were you ready for all the people that want to say "fuck you asshole" (well not verbatim)?
Also, why do you feel it is rude when someone offers advice? Unsolicited advice or not, I highly doubt they are thinking "Let me be rude and give him some advice." My assumption is this thought process, "Oh this guy looks like he can use some words of advice and assurance. Let me give him the advice my great-great-great-great grandmother passed down through the generations, which helped me through my darkest time".
As well, its possible to dismiss someone's advice politely. Or do you feel it is necessary to shoot down someone's advice because you don't like it?
When I re-read your post, my impression of you is that of a self-entitled teenager that has a bad case of the "I know everything already". I could be totally wrong, But it doesn't matter, because you won't listen to my advice anyways.
PS. ninazerg never failed to amuse me with your witty replies.
it's demonym, not demon, it's pronounced differently as well, demo-nim. It's actually a term you can find used on wikipedia if you search an article relating to a country. Canada's demonym would be canadian or canuck.
I actually consider this blog post a pretty big success all-in-all, but I suppose it's not really clear what I'm going for here.
-I'm venting frustration -I'm using this as a means of practice for finding ways of responding to bad advice -I'm using this as a means for finding out what people react to and in what way -most importantly, I'm trying to find people I can relate to in a way that's pretty much lacking atm, someone who can give me "good" advice.
So don't feel too discouraged if I don't happen to like your advice or disagree with it, you're still being helpful.
If you're impression of me is wrong then it's pretty hard for you to give good advice.
On December 17 2014 06:14 Djzapz wrote: Let me take a moment to discuss relativism with you weirdos. Oh fuck it whatever. This is is too fucked up.
Anyway OP most of what you and I believe about most things are just values and knowledge that come from other places, we often don't know where or when we acquired them, we don't know who we're "parroting" because in many cases we've integrated the things that we've heard to our own sets of beliefs about the world and whatnot. So it's not really parroting, we all have various influences, we use our own current beliefs and "anti-bullshit self-defense mechanisms" to weed out some of the wrong information (and some of the accurate information too). If you discuss anything that matters in the slightest, your opinions are built on the shoulders of people who have thought about the things before you did. Their arguments are at least reasoned in some way (in many cases).
So the parroting is not the problem, not at all, it's a symptom. The problem, and we're all guilty of this, is that we're flawed and we have no good way of deciding what's true and what isn't. So the problem is not people, but rather, our lack of an ability to think the world in an effective way.
We could argue all day about whether "rationality" is the correct way to look at the world, it certainly is in some cases, but if we were to assume that rationality actually is the prism through which we want to form our beliefs and opinions, then it's obvious that many people struggle with that. In the end, if we want people to be rational, it's pointless to whine about how people are stupid, but rather, we should try to pursue some form of basic education on logic and critical thinking for our children.
Now that's proper criticism of our society. People are not encouraged to think critically. People do parrot the last shit they heard ad nauseam but it's not because they're dumbshit, it's because they're taught to (or rather, they're not taught to think, they're taught to execute predefined tasks). Now being taught about critical thinking and logic in a philosophy class won't "fix" us, we're always going to have stupid opinions. I'm sure many of the things that I believe are fucking stupid and have no basis in reality, same with you, but that's okay. But people might do better if they were taught that not everything you see on TV is true (for instance). And they're told that, but they don't believe it, not really. I don't believe it either, not always.
(Nice, an interesting response) The parroting not being the problem is very true. repeating back what you've heard somewhere is kinda the basis of communication and learning words period. All words people use (with rare exception to the ones people made up themselves) is immitation.
On the not knowing when and where we aqcuire our information, while it is true even for me that I'm unsure where all of what I say directly comes from, it's a very worthwhile skill to practice (one I have been training extensively). It's too easy to just say too many polluted things when you can't even keep track of what's entering into your mind and from where. Also there's pretty much no downside to being good at this and a lot of benefits.
Part of the reason I'm being so forward about what I think is because I'm aware that I do think ridiculous things sometimes. I think I'm far more likely to catch what those things are though if I leave myself a bit more open to criticism. I mean really I could probably have posted something really long going into tons of small details but instead I just wrote something really quickly, spell-checked, then hit post.
On December 17 2014 06:14 Djzapz wrote: Let me take a moment to discuss relativism with you weirdos. Oh fuck it whatever. This is is too fucked up.
Anyway OP most of what you and I believe about most things are just values and knowledge that come from other places, we often don't know where or when we acquired them, we don't know who we're "parroting" because in many cases we've integrated the things that we've heard to our own sets of beliefs about the world and whatnot. So it's not really parroting, we all have various influences, we use our own current beliefs and "anti-bullshit self-defense mechanisms" to weed out some of the wrong information (and some of the accurate information too). If you discuss anything that matters in the slightest, your opinions are built on the shoulders of people who have thought about the things before you did. Their arguments are at least reasoned in some way (in many cases).
So the parroting is not the problem, not at all, it's a symptom. The problem, and we're all guilty of this, is that we're flawed and we have no good way of deciding what's true and what isn't. So the problem is not people, but rather, our lack of an ability to think the world in an effective way.
We could argue all day about whether "rationality" is the correct way to look at the world, it certainly is in some cases, but if we were to assume that rationality actually is the prism through which we want to form our beliefs and opinions, then it's obvious that many people struggle with that. In the end, if we want people to be rational, it's pointless to whine about how people are stupid, but rather, we should try to pursue some form of basic education on logic and critical thinking for our children.
Now that's proper criticism of our society. People are not encouraged to think critically. People do parrot the last shit they heard ad nauseam but it's not because they're dumbshit, it's because they're taught to (or rather, they're not taught to think, they're taught to execute predefined tasks). Now being taught about critical thinking and logic in a philosophy class won't "fix" us, we're always going to have stupid opinions. I'm sure many of the things that I believe are fucking stupid and have no basis in reality, same with you, but that's okay. But people might do better if they were taught that not everything you see on TV is true (for instance). And they're told that, but they don't believe it, not really. I don't believe it either, not always.
On the not knowing when and where we aqcuire our information, while it is true even for me that I'm unsure where all of what I say directly comes from, it's a very worthwhile skill to practice (one I have been training extensively). It's too easy to just say too many polluted things when you can't even keep track of what's entering into your mind and from where. Also there's pretty much no downside to being good at this and a lot of benefits.
On December 17 2014 07:08 Meepman wrote: I would bet some serious money that you watched too many TV shows (or other media, I suppose) with anti-heroes when you were younger, LOVED their cynicism because WOW THAT'S SO DIFFERENT, UNIQUE, THOUGHTFUL etc. etc, and started slowly modelling yourself after them because you NEED TO BE DIFFERENT, UNIQUE, THOUGHTFUL etc. etc.
Now you're basically a walking fallacy (take a logic class, maybe; CosmicSpiral has some damn good points) who hemorrhages cynicism that some philosopher with Dysthymia wrote down, and just so happens to sound exactly like what you imagine all your idols' thoughts to sound like. News flash: nobody cares about that type of person in real life because there's no script to force them into a relationship. Also, you're wasting your life by shitting all over everybody in it. Get over it; get over yourself.
EDIT: I actually sound like quite the asshole here, so I'll just add a few things. What I'm trying to say is that cynicism, to me, is more of a parroting perspective than optimism. But you don't have to agree with this. Assuming my previous statement is wrong, for arguments sake, cynicism certainly leads inevitably to isolation and a sort of solipsistic arrogance that eventually becomes some form of depression or other adverse side-effects. Eg. "The world sucks, and I'm the only one who is reasonable. What's the point?"
It flat-out does not make sense to me why you'd want to think like this (returning to my quirky, unique, anti-hero statement) when more frequent optimism is so much undeniably better. This implied assertion that cynicism > optimism is what really bothers me. Hell, even faked optimism has measurably better health effects than no optimism.
Maybe he just read Catcher In The Rye and really liked it.
On December 17 2014 07:08 Meepman wrote: I would bet some serious money that you watched too many TV shows (or other media, I suppose) with anti-heroes when you were younger, LOVED their cynicism because WOW THAT'S SO DIFFERENT, UNIQUE, THOUGHTFUL etc. etc, and started slowly modelling yourself after them because you NEED TO BE DIFFERENT, UNIQUE, THOUGHTFUL etc. etc.
Now you're basically a walking fallacy (take a logic class, maybe; CosmicSpiral has some damn good points) who hemorrhages cynicism that some philosopher with Dysthymia wrote down, and just so happens to sound exactly like what you imagine all your idols' thoughts to sound like. News flash: nobody cares about that type of person in real life because there's no script to force them into a relationship. Also, you're wasting your life by shitting all over everybody in it. Get over it; get over yourself.
EDIT: I actually sound like quite the asshole here, so I'll just add a few things. What I'm trying to say is that cynicism, to me, is more of a parroting perspective than optimism. But you don't have to agree with this. Assuming my previous statement is wrong, for arguments sake, cynicism certainly leads inevitably to isolation and a sort of solipsistic arrogance that eventually becomes some form of depression or other adverse side-effects. Eg. "The world sucks, and I'm the only one who is reasonable. What's the point?"
It flat-out does not make sense to me why you'd want to think like this (returning to my quirky, unique, anti-hero statement) when more frequent optimism is so much undeniably better. This implied assertion that cynicism > optimism is what really bothers me. Hell, even faked optimism has measurably better health effects than no optimism.
Maybe he just read Catcher In The Rye and really liked it.
There's lots of sayings people throw around with out much thought, this much is true. But some of those have real truth to them, once you take the time to unpack the meaning on your own. I don't get the idea that you've done that much thinking about them, since you didn't post them here with your comprehensive retort on why it's wrong and people should stop saying it to you (or altogether).
When you bat away advice or arguments without telling people what your concerns about them are, you give people the impression that you've started with the premise "nothing can help" and that you're using it as the perfect defence to every piece of advice. I wouldn't worry about people giving you the same advice for too long, because people usually give up in the face of that. If they see you without any of your own plans, they'll want to help, but if they see you're intent on having no plans, they'll leave you alone after awhile; unless they have a permanent concern about you, ie your parents.
EPT
