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On September 12 2014 01:47 Chocolate wrote:[ Show nested quote +On September 11 2014 22:43 opisska wrote:
I still find this american system of "college of everything, at any time" really confusing. I often see people listing random combination of courses as their schedule for the semester. How does that work for anything complex enough that it can't be fully covered in a semester? Also, is it really that useful to make everyone "slightly knowledgeable" in almost everything instead of doing one thing really well?
For my defaultly 5-year study at the university, the first three years were mostly lined up for me. Yes, in principle I could shuffle many lessons around according to my wish, but it would be really unwise, because the topics covered depended on the material from the other courses, in a highly intertwined fashion. The progression in math classes was designed to be just fast enough so that we can understand what the symbols in all the physics classes mean, if we take them in the recommended order. The point is that the first three years were just enough to make us understand the very basics of physics in a consistent way. Yes, I was technically allowed to take any course from law to medicine, but there was not much room (and no requirement) for that, when the default courses took 20 hours a week. Well, in computer science and mathematics at least, Data Structures and Linear Algebra kind of create a bottleneck where you can't really study anything advanced until you knock them out. But schools in the US, particularly my school since the engineering department is overshadowed by the school of arts in science, also want you to develop a wide range of skills partly so that you get a wide exposure to things that you may not already be aware of, and also because some majors weed kids out and those people need somewhere to go when they realize they can't cut it in economics/physics/whatever. Also I need to take economics now so that I can get started with my adviser's research next semester (computational economics). Aaaanyway I'm still trucking away on this damned homework due in 3 hours.
This "exposing to wide range of things" is exactly what I was talking about - here we believe that that's what high school is for, when you go to university, you have already made your choice. Also, you said it's your first semester and you already have an adviser? You are supposed to do some research right off the bat?
I am just missing a lot more "introduction to the main subject" classes here. My faculty has also computer science (it is together with mathematics and physics, which I did) and their first year is filled with introductory maths (linear algebra, calculus, discrete mathematics), and two basic programing courses (one abstract, one with a particular language) plus a course on English as a foreign language (obviously redundant for you). If someone wants to get enlightened on astrophysics, they usually do it somwehre in the second or third year, where they have more time (and also have already had 3-4 semesters of calculus to comprehend the math).
Also the whole concept of a "minor" seems really, really weird.
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On September 12 2014 04:22 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 01:47 Chocolate wrote:[ On September 11 2014 22:43 opisska wrote:
I still find this american system of "college of everything, at any time" really confusing. I often see people listing random combination of courses as their schedule for the semester. How does that work for anything complex enough that it can't be fully covered in a semester? Also, is it really that useful to make everyone "slightly knowledgeable" in almost everything instead of doing one thing really well?
For my defaultly 5-year study at the university, the first three years were mostly lined up for me. Yes, in principle I could shuffle many lessons around according to my wish, but it would be really unwise, because the topics covered depended on the material from the other courses, in a highly intertwined fashion. The progression in math classes was designed to be just fast enough so that we can understand what the symbols in all the physics classes mean, if we take them in the recommended order. The point is that the first three years were just enough to make us understand the very basics of physics in a consistent way. Yes, I was technically allowed to take any course from law to medicine, but there was not much room (and no requirement) for that, when the default courses took 20 hours a week. Well, in computer science and mathematics at least, Data Structures and Linear Algebra kind of create a bottleneck where you can't really study anything advanced until you knock them out. But schools in the US, particularly my school since the engineering department is overshadowed by the school of arts in science, also want you to develop a wide range of skills partly so that you get a wide exposure to things that you may not already be aware of, and also because some majors weed kids out and those people need somewhere to go when they realize they can't cut it in economics/physics/whatever. Also I need to take economics now so that I can get started with my adviser's research next semester (computational economics). Aaaanyway I'm still trucking away on this damned homework due in 3 hours. This "exposing to wide range of things" is exactly what I was talking about - here we believe that that's what high school is for, when you go to university, you have already made your choice. Also, you said it's your first semester and you already have an adviser? You are supposed to do some research right off the bat? I am just missing a lot more "introduction to the main subject" classes here. My faculty has also computer science (it is together with mathematics and physics, which I did) and their first year is filled with introductory maths (linear algebra, calculus, discrete mathematics), and two basic programing courses (one abstract, one with a particular language) plus a course on English as a foreign language (obviously redundant for you). If someone wants to get enlightened on astrophysics, they usually do it somwehre in the second or third year, where they have more time (and also have already had 3-4 semesters of calculus to comprehend the math). Also the whole concept of a "minor" seems really, really weird.
As far as wide ranges go, I've met a lot of people that have never taken sociology, physics, psychology, economics (me), actual difficult foreign language classes, etc. before. Plus at my school you get admitted to an an entire department (education, arts and sciences, engineering, or music). Within arts and sciences you could study Math and Physics or Sociology. Part of the reason gen eds exist is so that you can still graduate in 4 years if you can't cut it in what you originally wanted to study, e.g. you are not good enough at physics, but you have 2 semesters of sociology classes already, so you become a sociology major and still graduate in 4 years.
I have an adviser because that's just how we do it at our school (to help you register for the right classes), I just came in with more credit than is normal so he will also end up being my research adviser.
Minors are just gained by taking like 5-7 courses on a subject; they are basically just certifications. Majors are just more advanced certifications.
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Oh nooo man I hope things work out for you chocolate. TL is behind you!! I learned that lesson too. This semester I have a grand total of four courses. Only because I heard third year was horribly difficult (physics)
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On September 12 2014 04:22 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 01:47 Chocolate wrote:[ On September 11 2014 22:43 opisska wrote:
I still find this american system of "college of everything, at any time" really confusing. I often see people listing random combination of courses as their schedule for the semester. How does that work for anything complex enough that it can't be fully covered in a semester? Also, is it really that useful to make everyone "slightly knowledgeable" in almost everything instead of doing one thing really well?
For my defaultly 5-year study at the university, the first three years were mostly lined up for me. Yes, in principle I could shuffle many lessons around according to my wish, but it would be really unwise, because the topics covered depended on the material from the other courses, in a highly intertwined fashion. The progression in math classes was designed to be just fast enough so that we can understand what the symbols in all the physics classes mean, if we take them in the recommended order. The point is that the first three years were just enough to make us understand the very basics of physics in a consistent way. Yes, I was technically allowed to take any course from law to medicine, but there was not much room (and no requirement) for that, when the default courses took 20 hours a week. Well, in computer science and mathematics at least, Data Structures and Linear Algebra kind of create a bottleneck where you can't really study anything advanced until you knock them out. But schools in the US, particularly my school since the engineering department is overshadowed by the school of arts in science, also want you to develop a wide range of skills partly so that you get a wide exposure to things that you may not already be aware of, and also because some majors weed kids out and those people need somewhere to go when they realize they can't cut it in economics/physics/whatever. Also I need to take economics now so that I can get started with my adviser's research next semester (computational economics). Aaaanyway I'm still trucking away on this damned homework due in 3 hours. This "exposing to wide range of things" is exactly what I was talking about - here we believe that that's what high school is for, when you go to university, you have already made your choice. Also, you said it's your first semester and you already have an adviser? You are supposed to do some research right off the bat? I am just missing a lot more "introduction to the main subject" classes here. My faculty has also computer science (it is together with mathematics and physics, which I did) and their first year is filled with introductory maths (linear algebra, calculus, discrete mathematics), and two basic programing courses (one abstract, one with a particular language) plus a course on English as a foreign language (obviously redundant for you). If someone wants to get enlightened on astrophysics, they usually do it somwehre in the second or third year, where they have more time (and also have already had 3-4 semesters of calculus to comprehend the math). Also the whole concept of a "minor" seems really, really weird.
Having minors and electives seem to be mostly the university's attempt to make you a more well-rounded human being. I think it's wasted, as I'm at university to get educated in a particular subject and don't really care about the rest. Happily there were a few programming papers I was able to do as electives, so I've only had to do a couple of actual non-major papers (I'm doing a couple of philosophy papers this semester  ).
I daresay it has its roots in the original university structure, where you had to have a general education before you could study theology (quadrivium and trivium before you could actually enter the theological part of the university).
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Doesnt look that hard to me :p
Math homework always takes forever to do properly, luckily you have the easiest topics and only 1 math class.
Youll get used to it, the other classes look like a bit of exercise each week wil guarantee good grades.
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You can do this just fine, a bit of time management and discipline and you'll be fine. I am on my second year of college in computer science and this is my course load.
Programming (Java 3 hour lab per week)
Web Development and design (HTML, JSP, ASP, CSS, Javascript, PHP ect 3 hour lab per week)
Systems Design (3 hour lab per week)
Database (SQL, Oracle 3 hour lab per week)
Phys Ed
Random English class
Philosophy
The Computer Science elements, not including general education is allotted 60 hours per week.
Manage your time and you'll be fine, you just have to not be lazy.
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On September 12 2014 09:40 LaNague wrote:
Doesnt look that hard to me :p
Math homework always takes forever to do properly, luckily you have the easiest topics and only 1 math class.
Youll get used to it, the other classes look like a bit of exercise each week wil guarantee good grades.
It's more the adjustment to the work vs. the topics. Subspaces and arrays are easy as fuck, I just haven't done a lot of proof writing in my life and make small mistakes in jumps in logical reasoning.
Yeah most of the other ones are just busy work except Astrophysics since I need to think a shitton on how to move from one set of data to the other to answer questions.
On September 12 2014 10:28 Pensai wrote:
You can do this just fine, a bit of time management and discipline and you'll be fine. I am on my second year of college in computer science and this is my course load.
Programming (Java 3 hour lab per week)
Web Development and design (HTML, JSP, ASP, CSS, Javascript, PHP ect 3 hour lab per week)
Systems Design (3 hour lab per week)
Database (SQL, Oracle 3 hour lab per week)
Phys Ed
Random English class
Philosophy
The Computer Science elements, not including general education is allotted 60 hours per week.
Manage your time and you'll be fine, you just have to not be lazy.
I'm not going to bag on your schedule but...
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your course load looks really light yo. i dont want to shit on your lesson learned because it's completely true, but other people have 35hour+ course loads not including homework and i think this is definitely completely doable and you're underestimating yourself
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If you think undergrad is bad, just wait until you get into graduate school and the real insanity begins.
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Thanks guys for replies to my comments, it's always interesting to hear the overseas opinion. Sorry for detracting from chocolate's though life situation - in some sense, I feel sad for you, as for me, the university was the best time of my life, really relaxed with a lot of great free time - and that's even though I have taken a lot of extra courses voluntarily. My faculty has the ideology (which is not even common in the rest of the university) that people are basically free to do whatever they want to during the semester as long as they pass the exams at the end of it, so I took full advantage of that 
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United States10328 Posts
^yeah, my school had an exchange program to Cambridge where you basically only take courses in your major (math) and the entire grade is based on the Tripos exams at the end of the year. I was worried that without homework, I'd slack off too much and not really learn any material :/
Then again, even with homework, it's unclear how well I learned (for example) algebraic topology 
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TLADT24920 Posts
Honestly, your schedule doesn't look that bad. As you said, I think it's most time management, discipline and learning to focus on getting something done so that you can finish it faster. Once you learn and can apply those skills well, it shouldn't be too bad balancing college and life in general. It'll just take a bit of time at the start to get to a comfortable level and it's a change from your high school, that's for sure
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On September 12 2014 06:22 Birdie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 04:22 opisska wrote:On September 12 2014 01:47 Chocolate wrote:[ On September 11 2014 22:43 opisska wrote:
I still find this american system of "college of everything, at any time" really confusing. I often see people listing random combination of courses as their schedule for the semester. How does that work for anything complex enough that it can't be fully covered in a semester? Also, is it really that useful to make everyone "slightly knowledgeable" in almost everything instead of doing one thing really well?
For my defaultly 5-year study at the university, the first three years were mostly lined up for me. Yes, in principle I could shuffle many lessons around according to my wish, but it would be really unwise, because the topics covered depended on the material from the other courses, in a highly intertwined fashion. The progression in math classes was designed to be just fast enough so that we can understand what the symbols in all the physics classes mean, if we take them in the recommended order. The point is that the first three years were just enough to make us understand the very basics of physics in a consistent way. Yes, I was technically allowed to take any course from law to medicine, but there was not much room (and no requirement) for that, when the default courses took 20 hours a week. Well, in computer science and mathematics at least, Data Structures and Linear Algebra kind of create a bottleneck where you can't really study anything advanced until you knock them out. But schools in the US, particularly my school since the engineering department is overshadowed by the school of arts in science, also want you to develop a wide range of skills partly so that you get a wide exposure to things that you may not already be aware of, and also because some majors weed kids out and those people need somewhere to go when they realize they can't cut it in economics/physics/whatever. Also I need to take economics now so that I can get started with my adviser's research next semester (computational economics). Aaaanyway I'm still trucking away on this damned homework due in 3 hours. This "exposing to wide range of things" is exactly what I was talking about - here we believe that that's what high school is for, when you go to university, you have already made your choice. Also, you said it's your first semester and you already have an adviser? You are supposed to do some research right off the bat? I am just missing a lot more "introduction to the main subject" classes here. My faculty has also computer science (it is together with mathematics and physics, which I did) and their first year is filled with introductory maths (linear algebra, calculus, discrete mathematics), and two basic programing courses (one abstract, one with a particular language) plus a course on English as a foreign language (obviously redundant for you). If someone wants to get enlightened on astrophysics, they usually do it somwehre in the second or third year, where they have more time (and also have already had 3-4 semesters of calculus to comprehend the math). Also the whole concept of a "minor" seems really, really weird. Having minors and electives seem to be mostly the university's attempt to make you a more well-rounded human being. I think it's wasted, as I'm at university to get educated in a particular subject and don't really care about the rest. Happily there were a few programming papers I was able to do as electives, so I've only had to do a couple of actual non-major papers (I'm doing a couple of philosophy papers this semester ). I daresay it has its roots in the original university structure, where you had to have a general education before you could study theology (quadrivium and trivium before you could actually enter the theological part of the university).
It does. The original point of university (college) education wasn't to teach you a specific skill for a specific job. If you only want that, you can go to a trade school or an apprenticeship. The point of a college education was to make you a more well-rounded and educated citizen, and people also used this knowledge to make a living. That's a philosophy that a lot of colleges/universities (especially liberal arts colleges) still adhere to.
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Well imo it is about teaching you specific skills at least it seems to be like this here in germany...
It should not be made for getting you a job even though many people start to think that way.
In my first year of physics 2/3 of my classes were math and everything was fixed, you could take extra coursed but you had more than enough to do. I didn't know anyone passing and working less than 50 hour weeks in the first semester (50% dropped out though). (Side note: We have to gather "soft skill credits" we can kinda choose freely but everyone i know makes fun of it i mean we came to study physics because we like physics not for attending seminars about economics and philosophy even though it can be nice)
Actually i just learned what studying means in the 2nd semester because theoretical physics while being incredibly interesting is a lot of stuff if you really want to learn the details and understand it (not necessarily to pass the exams though but its still one of the hardest courses). But back to topic just pick courses you're really interested in, i will probably take an extra math course just because i wanna learn about it, and when you tend to enjoy it then 60-80 hour weeks are okay ish to handle (except if you have a job at the same time then i would be screwed i guess)
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So here's my class load:
Linear Algebra/Multivariable Calculus + Proof writing (4hr)
Data Structures (C++)
Introduction to Astrophysics + 1 hr astronomylab
Macroeconomics
Intro Engineering
Which altogether gives 17 hours (though of course the lab is actually 3hrs long, it just gives 1 hr of credit).
you ain't seen nothing yet.
I'm not saying your course load is easy, because it's not. But you should expect it to get harder, and not easier.
introductory courses are weird because they serve to get everyone to the same level, and since students are coming from many different schools, no one finished in exactly the same place. there is a big variety in the workload, depending on how much of the material is catching up or review. And then once everybody is approximately levelled out, they put the pedal down and you hold on for dear life. The astrophysics one looks like it could be a core class for astrophysics majors and not "astrophysics for engineering students" or whatever.
you are gonna love it when you have multiple labs every week.
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On September 11 2014 13:25 Chocolate wrote:
Holy shit. So like almost all high school students, I came into college cocky. I did well in high school, got good grades and all that, and was at the top end of the entering class at my college, so I figured it would be good to challenge myself my first semester by diving in feet first.
Horrible decision. I'm writing this blog to tell you why not to do that
So here's my class load:
Linear Algebra/Multivariable Calculus + Proof writing (4hr)
Data Structures (C++)
Introduction to Astrophysics + 1 hr astronomylab
Macroeconomics
Intro Engineering
Which altogether gives 17 hours (though of course the lab is actually 3hrs long, it just gives 1 hr of credit).
Fuck. this. shit. Don't do what I did. Take it easy your first semester and don't sign up for an obscene amount of hours of classes that are notorious for their difficulty.
I spent my last Sunday entirely on my math homework, Wednesday on programming for CS and intro (baby) engineering (drag and drop programming is a fucking crime against nature), and tonight entirely on astrophysics, and I'm still not fucking done.
Don't think you're a badass. Don't bite off more than you can chew. Don't take fucking astrophysics if you only need to get six technical elective credits that could be in any non-intro science course.
Assuming by 17 hours you mean you're taking 17 credits/semester, then maybe you'll survive this semester (normal credit load at most universities to my knowledge is 15 credits/semester). Not sure your system there but maybe try talking to an adviser and seeing if you can withdraw from astrophysics or econ. Taking a lighter load first semester, especially as a new university student, is recommendable. You want to get as much socializing/networking in as possible first semester since those connections will likely last through your program (and maybe beyond).
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EPT
