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24hrs Diablo 2 Challenge: 2, Necros & Tal Runes

Blogs > Akagi
Post a Reply
Akagi
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States33 Posts
June 15 2014 23:36 GMT
#1
24hrs Diablo 2 Challenge: Chapter 2, Necromancers and Tal Runes


Warning: Lots of pictures!


+ Show Spoiler +


We left off last time with Madeline about to descend into the ruins of the Countess’s tower.

[image loading]

Down she goes.



[image loading]

Goatmen live here too? The result of Madeline vs Unique boss pack, round #1 of many.

+ Show Spoiler +


Aside 1: The tower is a great alternative place to level up versus Tristram, only if you have a fast character due to the longer time needed to find the Tower and traverse 5 levels. At levels 10+ or 11+, Countess runs actually give more EXP due to a boss pack on almost every level and still has a good chance to drop the early game items I want. The best advantage though is the rune drop at the end. PROTIP: Although the Tower levels are supposed to be randomly generated, go LEFT every time you get to the next level. This works in all difficulties 99% of the time due to the way the randomized sections are generated. There may be 1 or 2 layouts out of 100 where it’s faster to go right, and they only occur in NM and Hell iirc.





[image loading]

Better? Or worse than the one I got before?



[image loading]

Madeline demonstrates her battle IQ. This is where you stand to when you attack the Countess. Her minions will try to swarm you and get bottlenecked at the doorway, leading to perfect fireblasts. Take the path that allows you to attack downward into the room because you get much better visual clarity without the "see-through" wall effect in the way.



[image loading]

Nice runes! 2 x Tal (LVL 17) is really good considering the Countess only drops up to Ral (LVL 19). I would rather have taken 2 x Tir (LVL 13) instead any day, but I can’t really complain about such nice drops.



[image loading]

Another reward from plundering the Tower: another Nec shield. It’s pretty bad, but since it’s white, I’ll save it along with others in my inventory for an imbue.

+ Show Spoiler +


Aside 2: I like to use my imbue’s early on to try to roll a useful rare. Otherwise, I usually don’t do use it until I’m trying to roll something very specific in the super late game, in which case I have to look up tons of complicated calculations to figure out the best char level, base item, etc. which I’m not as familiar with. The 3 main options for imbuing were Nec wand, Nec shield, Sorc orb. I decided Nec shield is the best route to use up my quest reward, because a Sorc orb will eventually be replaced by a Spirit sword once I can make it, and a Nec wand can be obtained by shopping or replaced later by Aokl. My Sin also doesn’t need anything other than maybe a Leaf. So Nec shield it is.



Seeing these Necromancer items have made me itch for some more demonic gameplay. So I told Madeline to relax and take a short vacation.

Time check: 16 min on my Sin. Level 9.



[image loading]

“Alucard! How have you been? It’s been a long time, my favorite character!” I said fondly.

“All who oppose me… beware!”

Looks like you’re as ready to go as I am. And we’re off! (I also haxed a ring and an amulet back-to-back off Fallen in the Blood Moor, although both were useless I believe. I must build a shrine for the RNG gods at home sometime.)



[image loading]

I’m not mortal, Flavie. This is Softcore!

+ Show Spoiler +


Aside 3: Yes you can say I chickened out of Hardcore. There is a good reason for that. I just can’t stand losing all my progress due to a lag spike. I’ve already experiences a few that would have ended a Hardcore run so far, including one where I had to restart my game and my char got rolled back to a state 5 minutes ago. It’s just not something I’m willing to put up with.

Forgive me, Hardcore players!





[image loading]

Deckard Cain tried to hustle Alucard. I’ll have none of that, you old Horadric con man. Akara’s Mart graciously sells ID scrolls for less.



[image loading]

Alucard deeply ponders his personal magical studies. Don’t ask him about what happened with his application or interview to get into Hogwarts. He doesn’t like to talk about it. Alucard grows in power as I put a point each into Raise skeleton and Skeleton Mastery.

+ Show Spoiler +


Aside 4: This is going to be a long section so a cup of coffee may nice to have here. Some people I've seen either skew mostly into Raise Skeleton early to have more of them or 50-50 in each. I like to put literally every point into Skeleton Mastery and let a wand carry my Raise Skeleton skill level as much as possible. My use of early skill points for a summon Nec is going to require a bit of explanation on my overall theory of the early game. As a preface, I have heard and seen multiple schools of thought and this is just the way I personally feel is best.

In the beginning, the 2 most important factors for efficient character progress are 1) AOE and 2) minimum damage. This is why I am very much against twinking a char w/ Khalim’s Flail, which is a popular strategy. I also don’t like Sigon’s Set – I like part of it, specifically the gloves-boots-belt combo, but I never use the entire set to twink a char.

Due to the low amount of HP on most monsters in Act 1 Normal compared to the possible range of single-hit damage output obtainable by low level characters, the fastest way to kill monsters IMO is to scale your char’s damage to be just barely able to kill monsters you face in 1 hit. To use an example, let’s pretend we are standing in the Blood Moor with a sorceress at LVL 1. You have 2 options: 1) firebolt for 3-6 DMG, or physical attack w/ staff for 1-5 DMG. Fallen here have a randomized amount of HP between 1-4. Zombies here are the same between 7-12.

Considering the worst case scenario of max HP when facing a Fallen, firebolt may take 2 hits to kill while staff takes maybe 2, maybe 3, maybe even 4 hits to kill. What if we could guarantee a kill in just 1 hit? Let’s pretend it takes a sorceress casting exactly 2 firebolts every time to kill a Fallen. If we can create a scenario where it only takes 1 hit, we are literally cutting time needed to kill by 1/2. That scenario is: If my firebolt is guaranteed a minimum of 4 DMG per hit, I am also guaranteed to ALWAYS kill a Fallen in 1 hit. So, I could either get LVL 2 firebolt so that it does 4-7 DMG instead of 3-6….. or much more easily, I can just grab a melee weapon w/ minimum 4 DMG and not even have to worry about mana costs.

Considering a second worst case scenario of 12 max HP on a zombie, trying to get firebolt to do a minimum of 12 DMG in the Blood Moor with any low level sorceress is ridiculous. But not so with a melee weapon, which you can mule away for re-use for on any starting char.
What if, then, you could have an AOE attack that kills monsters in 1 hit? If you can walk into Bishibosh’s camp in the Cold Plains, and wipe a screen of 15 monsters in 1 attack, you are literally increasing your killing speed by 15 times.

Coming back to my beef w/ Khalim’s Flail, the minimum damage is way too low while the high maximum damage is completely wasted on monsters that average maybe between 15-30HP in Act 1. In addition, the life and mana leech are mostly wasted when you are doing low amount of physical damage at low levels. (My complaint about Sigon’s is different though – I just feel it doesn’t do enough compared to items that can be way more easily obtained.)

I hope I haven’t lost you with all this dry talk about strategy! All this being said, my favorite low level weapon is a regular paladin scepter. It does 6-11 damage, with possibility of 2os for 2 chipped rubies, and can be equipped for the cheap cost of 25 STR at LVL 1. The best part about it is that I can buy one from Akara for something like 350 gold! When you start from scratch, this is extremely meaningful. If twinked, a 2x chipped ruby scepter does 12 minimum damage! I’m literally 1-shotting everything except gargantuan beasts in the early game and speeding up my progression tremendously. Once I am finishing up Trist runs or wherever I choose to level up, my char’s skills will naturally grow to replace these melee attacks.

Returning all the way back to my Nec’s skill points, I’m looking to get the best minimum damage I can from my sometimes-bad-AI skeletons, so they don’t waste time trying to kill the same Fallen over and over again while the Shaman resurrects endlessly. If they can 1-shot monsters, they can overwhelm resurrecting monsters much more efficiently instead of being stuck in a never-ending stalemate situation.






[image loading]

All the rest of my skill points go into Skeleton Mastery to start boosting my minimum dmg.



[image loading]

Alucard is confident but not for long.



[image loading]

Alucard is surprised at the agility of new monsters he faces! He orders his skeleton army to do stretches before fighting and looks into Yoga lessons.

+ Show Spoiler +


This screenshot shows what happens when you explore an area under-leveled. That’s a drastic drop in AR effectiveness. You’ll see me later get an A2 offensive merc on my Nec for the Blessed Aim aura, which is very unusual.






[image loading]

Madeline gifts Alucard some items.



[image loading]

Courtesy of Akara and gold from Madeline.



[image loading]

Time check: 5 min on my Nec. Level 4. 8-9 DMG skeletons x3.

Alucard says he needs to whip his soldiers into shape and tells me to go away for a while.



[image loading]

In any case, I missed the fast excitement of Burst-of-Speed Sin, so I relapsed. A Tir!



[image loading]

2 x Tal! Not bad I guess.



[image loading]

Whoa, a Ral. Madeline, you’re my lucky charm today. Still not what I’m running Countess for though.



[image loading]

Again???



[image loading]

The spoils of war. How in hell did I get so many Tals and Rals?! I should be happy the RNG smiled upon me, but I seriously would trade all my non-Tir runes for 3 x more Tir runes. Aren’t Tir’s supposed to drop pretty often, or were there changes to the drop rates for runes? I’m left bewildered. Madeline is just enjoying herself laughing at me though.

Time check: 40 min on my Sin. Level 15.

I spent 24 minutes running Countess for a total of 11 runs with great EXP going up to level 15. I read somewhere that Blizzard changed the drop rates for runes, but not the lower level ones? Or is this incorrect? I have no idea.



[image loading]

After my unfortunately fortunate slew of Countess runs, I return to Alucard for advice on what to do with all my Tal runes. Instead I quickly forgot about it as Alucard showed me the results of Yoga lessons on his skeleton army.

“That’s a lot of damage,” I said.



[image loading]

“No, THIS is a lot of damage,” he replied.

I nodded in agreement, with tears in my eyes. “H-how?” I asked, flabbergasted.

With a devilish smile befitting a Necromancer, he opened his inventory while saying, “Here, I’ll show you.”

Time check: 25 min on my Nec. Level 13. 33-35 DMG skeletons x4.








Until next time,

Chapter 3: Desert sands, Igniting Memories




*****
The hourglass. It represents everything.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
June 16 2014 00:11 GMT
#2
Pretty cool strategy.

Forgive me for stupidity, but exactly how do you share items between characters?
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Akagi
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States33 Posts
June 16 2014 01:11 GMT
#3
On June 16 2014 09:11 The_Templar wrote:
Pretty cool strategy.

Forgive me for stupidity, but exactly how do you share items between characters?


When you have a game created on bnet for at least 5 minutes, it gets put into some kind of semi-permanent state so that when everyone leaves, the empty game actually stays up for a little while longer. During this time, anyone can go back into the game w/ any char. If I drop an item on the ground in town, I can leave and return w/ another char to pick it up.

I forgot to mention that I had my Nec join the same game my Sin was playing. I simply followed my Sin's path of destruction and in 5 minutes I was level 4 w/ every waypoint up to Dark Wood, which saved me a lot of time that otherwise would have been spent mostly wandering around the Underground Passage into the Dark Wood. I did the same w/ my Sorc, although I did not show it since all she did was run and didn't kill anything.
The hourglass. It represents everything.
419
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Russian Federation3631 Posts
June 16 2014 02:45 GMT
#4
Fun read.

For someone not really versed in the strategy of Diablo, why do you need all those runes?
?
Titusmaster6
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5937 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-16 06:10:28
June 16 2014 04:53 GMT
#5
Your blog is better than Epishade's. I gave his 5/5. I guess I will now give you 5/5 and him 4/5

+ Show Spoiler +
jk you guys are fucking awesome please gimme moar!


edit: Also I love all your side notes they are very helpful for noobs like me. Can you also explain how you spend your stats and skills? For example, have you been putting all points into fireblast?
Shorts down shorts up, BOOM, just like that.
Ghin
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States2391 Posts
June 16 2014 05:21 GMT
#6
Adding points to Raise Skeleton is more damage than Skeleton Mastery. You also get more skeletons and more of the other stats.

Example 1: Your character has 13 Skeleton Mastery and 7 Raise Skeleton. You have 4 skeletons that deal 34-35 damage.
Example 2: Your character has 7 Skeleton Mastery and 13 Raise Skeleton. You have 6 skeletons that deal 34-35 damage.

Lets try again with skill points your character will have in the future:
Example 1: You choose to put 20 points into Skeleton Mastery and 8 in Raise Skeleton. You now have 4 skeletons that deal 55-56 damage each.
Example 2: You choose instead to put 8 points into Skeleton Mastery and 20 into Raise Skeleton. You now have 8 skeletons that deal 72-74 damage each.


The difference is even greater with more points. There really isn't an example where you get a better deal putting points into Skeleton Mastery first.
Legalize drugs and murder.
Epishade
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States2267 Posts
June 16 2014 06:32 GMT
#7
On June 16 2014 13:53 Titusmaster6 wrote:
Your blog is better than Epishade's.

I have half the mind to Emiliofy your ass for this treason!
Pinhead Larry in the streets, Dirty Dan in the sheets.
Akagi
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States33 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-16 07:04:36
June 16 2014 06:56 GMT
#8
On June 16 2014 13:53 Titusmaster6 wrote:
Your blog is better than Epishade's. I gave his 5/5. I guess I will now give you 5/5 and him 4/5

+ Show Spoiler +
jk you guys are fucking awesome please gimme moar!


While his blog is humorous and fun, what Epishade is doing with his char is also a ton tougher than it looks and takes a huge amount of patience and careful play, so please give him 5/5! I myself would never dare to attempt what he is doing. (I've tried, and I've given up or died before) I'm just trying to figure out how to do this challenge, and I think at this moment my blog will to turn out a little more focused on mechanics and gameplay than his. I'm happy you like it though!


On June 16 2014 14:21 Ghin wrote:
Adding points to Raise Skeleton is more damage than Skeleton Mastery. You also get more skeletons and more of the other stats.

Example 1: Your character has 13 Skeleton Mastery and 7 Raise Skeleton. You have 4 skeletons that deal 34-35 damage.
Example 2: Your character has 7 Skeleton Mastery and 13 Raise Skeleton. You have 6 skeletons that deal 34-35 damage.

Lets try again with skill points your character will have in the future:
Example 1: You choose to put 20 points into Skeleton Mastery and 8 in Raise Skeleton. You now have 4 skeletons that deal 55-56 damage each.
Example 2: You choose instead to put 8 points into Skeleton Mastery and 20 into Raise Skeleton. You now have 8 skeletons that deal 72-74 damage each.


The difference is even greater with more points. There really isn't an example where you get a better deal putting points into Skeleton Mastery first.


I want to preface this by saying that summon Nec has always been my favorite char, and I used to know pretty much every in and out of the build, so I'm not trying to go overboard with crazy details here but this is my reasoning:

I failed to mention that I would only put skill points in Skeleton Mastery up to level 13/14, since that is where my progression stopped in this blog and that would be my fault.

There is one major breakpoint in Skeleton Mastery vs Raise Skeleton and that occurs at level 13/14 of Skeleton Mastery. Before this bp, more points in RS increases # of skeletons but at a trade off of lower min dmg. After this, the penalty of lower min dmg disappears. The reason this bp exists is due to RS scaling attack dmg by a percentage per skill level while SM scales attack dmg by a set 2 dmg per skill level. At level 13/14 of SM, the 7% increase in dmg by RS roughly equals 2 dmg and this is the tipping point. The other considerations are that # of skeletons only increase every 3 levels after 3 total skeletons are reached. So to have an extra skeleton takes 3 levels of commitment, while I feel that having immediate and larger increase in current skeleton dmg only takes 1 and smooths out your progression as you move from area -> tougher area during these 3 levels. Another consideration is why I value RS on items so much more than SM, even though I value placing hard skill points into SM over RS. At lower levels, I value minimum dmg quite a bit, because I want my skeletons to 1-shot those pesky Fallen to get to the Shaman before they resurrect and waste my time. It's much easier in progression to continually raise my min dmg while shopping for an immediate boost of +3 RS on a wand to immediately get an extra skeleton and balance out my deficit of pts in RS, than to do it the other way around and wait 3 levels for the impact. At mid levels of 13+ SM, I have a deficit of RS pts I'm trying to make up and having the wand/shield give me extra points is very helpful. At max levels of 20 pts in each, RS on a wand is more desirable because you can continue to get an extra skeletons every 3 levels. The % damage increase sometimes takes a backseat in comparison to hitting the next breakpoint to get another 200+ damage skeleton. So I'm conveniently able to hit on all these pts if I focus putting my pts into SM and getting RS instead on my wand.

On June 16 2014 15:32 Epishade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2014 13:53 Titusmaster6 wrote:
Your blog is better than Epishade's.

I have half the mind to Emiliofy your ass for this treason!

I like your blog~ It reminds me of how fun D2 can be. You're doing something which would be impossible in D3.
The hourglass. It represents everything.
Ghin
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States2391 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-16 08:00:20
June 16 2014 07:45 GMT
#9
It seems kind of silly to me to optimize your character for pre Dark Wood Act 1, a place where you can punch everything to death while naked. The example I gave, which is literally your exact number of skill points, gives you 2 more skeletons and the same damage.

I think you can build your character however you want. What I'm taking a little offense to is the idea that your way is better than normal and also to the arguing technique you used 'appeal to authority,' as someone with a fedora might call it.
Legalize drugs and murder.
Akagi
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States33 Posts
June 16 2014 08:32 GMT
#10
On June 16 2014 11:45 419 wrote:
Fun read.

For someone not really versed in the strategy of Diablo, why do you need all those runes?

I figure if I'm starting from scratch, and my Sin can run countess just fine to level up, I might as well get those rune drops while I'm leveling up normally.

As for what I might do with them. You'll see eventually...


On June 16 2014 13:53 Titusmaster6 wrote:
Your blog is better than Epishade's. I gave his 5/5. I guess I will now give you 5/5 and him 4/5

+ Show Spoiler +
jk you guys are fucking awesome please gimme moar!


edit: Also I love all your side notes they are very helpful for noobs like me. Can you also explain how you spend your stats and skills? For example, have you been putting all points into fireblast?


In general at any level, you want just barely enough to wear equipment and rest into vitality. For low levels I like to get to 30 strength in a reasonable amount of time to wear breastplates because they can have 3 sockets and high defense for low str requirements. The rest into vitality. I put most of my points into fireblast, then wake of fire, while picking up burst of speed. I debated whether or not to take cloak of shadows, but in the end I decided I wouldn't until I feel like I started to have trouble without it. Most effective builds revolve around 1-2 key skills of your choosing with extra points put into synergies and support skills. Not all skills are made equal however, as some are much better than others.
The hourglass. It represents everything.
Akagi
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States33 Posts
June 16 2014 13:39 GMT
#11
On June 16 2014 16:45 Ghin wrote:
It seems kind of silly to me to optimize your character for pre Dark Wood Act 1, a place where you can punch everything to death while naked. The example I gave, which is literally your exact number of skill points, gives you 2 more skeletons and the same damage.

I think you can build your character however you want. What I'm taking a little offense to is the idea that your way is better than normal and also to the arguing technique you used 'appeal to authority,' as someone with a fedora might call it.

For me optimizing pre dark wood is important although it may not be for your style. The example you gave was fine. I was disagreeing because I thought the progression up to that point would be slower.

I also wasn't trying pull some argument trick. If you were taking offense, I didn't mean for it to sound that way. You can feel free to disagree with me. I know and have seen others start off in different ways and be fast and effective in their own right. In the end it's just to each their own style.
The hourglass. It represents everything.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
June 16 2014 15:54 GMT
#12
I'm trying something similar. It took me 6 minutes alone to get through the underground passage because I missed one little section -.-
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Akagi
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States33 Posts
June 17 2014 02:21 GMT
#13
That sort of thing happens sometimes. What char are you starting with?

I may try to get chapter 3 out today since I have some extra time, and then I'll be busy the rest of the week.
The hourglass. It represents everything.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
June 17 2014 02:24 GMT
#14
On June 17 2014 11:21 Akagi wrote:
That sort of thing happens sometimes. What char are you starting with?

I may try to get chapter 3 out today since I have some extra time, and then I'll be busy the rest of the week.

Trap sin…
Also, how did you manage to find and get through the dark tower so quickly for the rune runs? That took me another 5 minutes for one go-through.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Akagi
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States33 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-17 02:35:09
June 17 2014 02:32 GMT
#15
I have burst of speed and the mini-map on all the times. You actually see farther on the map than you do on screen, so you can find shrines and the Tower more easily.

Edit: Also, I usually don't stop to kill anything other than boss packs.
The hourglass. It represents everything.
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
June 20 2014 19:43 GMT
#16
I am in awe of how fast you are progressing haha

Very much looking forward to the next blog as well, funnily enough the start of it coincided with my return to the game genre (with PoE as my game of chocie though)
In the woods, there lurks..
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