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On May 22 2014 15:14 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 13:57 d00p wrote:On May 22 2014 06:12 Metztli wrote:
Finally ! You could be on all internationals by now if you had not changed to this stupid Starcraft.You wasted so much time with that game. It's nice to see that on an SC2 site this doesn't get a ban or a warning but if someone says anything negative about dota they get warned instantly. Like that guy who said it's an easier game. It is. Deal with it. Maybe it really is dead gaem, but Babyknight leaving has nothing to do with it. This leaves Denmark pretty much screwed in the nordic power rank. If you have moderation issues, take it to website feedback please.
It's not a personal moderation issue of mine, so no I won't (and I wouldn't know where to post it either). So I'll blog this. This was more like a general statement on something that has been bothering me for a while. It really feels like some of the moderators should have jumped on the dota hypetrain out of here a long time ago. There is this site called liquiddota.
I think that some light MOBA bashing should be allowed on TL now that this site is once again Starcraft only. Dota is just so incredibly annoying! I can't help it. The people involved are so obnoxiously positive (about dota, not about other games) and TL grants them this aura of invulnerability, and even let's them talk trash about SC2. It's completely natural that SC2 fans feel the need to went when a prominent figure switches to a MOBA, but instant warnings and even bans ensue. I know it doesn't help our scene and it's juvenile but it's therapeutic, okay? Why wouldn't it be allowed on a Starcraft site? It almost feels like SC fans aren't welcome on TL anymore and it saddens me a bit for some reason, though I'm not 'involved' in any shape or form.
The moderators were very understanding towards the BW crowd in 2010-2011. The same should apply to SC2 now that it's dead gaem. For like 2 years now, yet somehow there are tons of good games going on constatly.
TL;DR: This is an SC site and we should be allowed to say nasty shit about mobas. This is still an SC site, isn't it?
I know this will get flak but I'm ok with that. Anyone feel the same?
 
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I dont like X game so i'm going to bash it and people who play it.
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On May 22 2014 23:48 Capped wrote:
I dont like X game so i'm going to bash it and people who play it.
No, bashing the people is not cool. Bashing the game, on the other hand, should totally be allowed, though there are other forum rules like flame bating etc that mix into it so it's not always that clear cut.
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Bashing games is the same as bashing people - a subjective opinion that does not contribute anything to development of an intellectual discussion. So many people have spoken to no end about what is the better game, yada yada, when you literally CANNOT compare games like SC2 and MOBAs, since they are completely DIFFERENT genres of games. Both require different types of skill and strategy, one revolving on strong mechanics, structured strategies and decisionmaking, and the other relying on teamwork, positioning and planning.
As you may or may not know, TL has different sites for different games now to clean up the different sections of TL and giving everyone their own haven. Just because it is an SC site doesn't mean it is a site that should be advocating and allowing unnecessary and immature flaming of different games that people who play SC might also play.
Grow up, plz.
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Because BW people bashing SC2 actually had a fair point and those two games are also related. SC2 people bashing MOBAs out of salt just looks silly.
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"bashing" is plain out wrong. Its not what you say but how you say it. If i say I don' t like sc2 cause its graphics, the way units move, the sounds, the loading time, the units, and i would not play it even if you paid me, its different from saying lol what a noob game for losers;
Bashing is moving out of rage or isteria, a well reasoned argument is moved by what you actually feel on a simple level playing or watching the game. On tl everyone is entitled to an opinion like the real world, but if you talk in a civil way
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I think that's an entirely juvenile concept and born out of being defensive over your own nest-egg when you perceive the other to be a threat.
There is a total amount of zero legitimate reasons to bash any game you so happen to dislike.
League suffers the most backlash and is a perfectly good example, why is it attacked so much? "Its childish" "Its shit" "Takes no skill" "Worse then dota". The reality is League swept in and snapped up the moba market which just so happened to become explosively popular because of the social/team aspect and become #1 in money/viewers/whatever. People immediately jumped on the defensive because it posed a threat to their own gaming communities. SC2 was used to being the biggest, Dota was used to being THE moba, etc etc. If dota2 had been where league was at the time, it would no doubt be the bigger of the two right now, the only thing league has over dota in terms of "advantage" is it is more beginner friendly other then that the two games are just different.
Same shit happens all the time, SC2 / BW, SC2 / Mobas, LoL/Dota. Its all juvenile defensiveness.
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It's pointless and boring and leads to long threads that are pointless and boring. How can you even compare games of two different genres in such a way?
It was also moderated with SC2 and Brood War, but you may not have thought so because either : some posts weren't found by moderators in huge dumb threads or the comparisons were made in such a way that there was something constructive or insightful about them.
You really have to argue the value of DOTA bashing to convince anyone, I think. To argue that, I don't think you can point to other valueless things that are allowed. There was a time on ye olde TL when Protoss bashing was the hot thing and people would make lots of Protoss is easy jokes. Then it got really tired and boring and it started getting moderated. I suspect moderation of DOTA bashing has been provoked by a similar feeling.
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IMO lets just enjoy what we enjoy, and let others enjoy what they do. For me "dead game" or not. I don't care, I play, watch, and enjoy playing SC2 a lot and that's enough. Not to be stupid but I tried LoL and didn't really understand the hype and didn't enjoy so I simply stopped playing it.
The End 
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On May 23 2014 00:10 vult wrote:
Bashing games is the same as bashing people - a subjective opinion that does not contribute anything to development of an intellectual discussion. So many people have spoken to no end about what is the better game, yada yada, when you literally CANNOT compare games like SC2 and MOBAs, since they are completely DIFFERENT genres of games. Both require different types of skill and strategy, one revolving on strong mechanics, structured strategies and decisionmaking, and the other relying on teamwork, positioning and planning.
As you may or may not know, TL has different sites for different games now to clean up the different sections of TL and giving everyone their own haven. Just because it is an SC site doesn't mean it is a site that should be advocating and allowing unnecessary and immature flaming of different games that people who play SC might also play.
Grow up, plz.
I didn't say there is any point to it. But there shouldn't there still be, you know, freedom of speech? And why does dota get special treatment? Also, bashing games is not at all the same as bashing people. Intellectual discussion on an internet message board? Your answer was like an epitome of why that's an impossible demand. You basically disregarded everything I said and just went on a rant.
I think the root of the problem is that peolpe take their respective games way too seriously and immediately get super emotional. People saying bad things about a game you like means NOTHING. Just take it as it is: venting.
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On May 23 2014 00:23 iLLuzion1st wrote:IMO lets just enjoy what we enjoy, and let others enjoy what they do. For me "dead game" or not. I don't care, I play, watch, and enjoy playing SC2 a lot and that's enough. Not to be stupid but I tried LoL and didn't really understand the hype and didn't enjoy so I simply stopped playing it. The End
This guys got it down.
Also, you dont have freedom of speech on TL, go and read the ten commandments again. You talk about bias? Check out how anti-LoL TL is. Nothing anyone can do about it, their house.
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On May 23 2014 00:26 d00p wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 00:10 vult wrote:
Bashing games is the same as bashing people - a subjective opinion that does not contribute anything to development of an intellectual discussion. So many people have spoken to no end about what is the better game, yada yada, when you literally CANNOT compare games like SC2 and MOBAs, since they are completely DIFFERENT genres of games. Both require different types of skill and strategy, one revolving on strong mechanics, structured strategies and decisionmaking, and the other relying on teamwork, positioning and planning.
As you may or may not know, TL has different sites for different games now to clean up the different sections of TL and giving everyone their own haven. Just because it is an SC site doesn't mean it is a site that should be advocating and allowing unnecessary and immature flaming of different games that people who play SC might also play.
Grow up, plz. I didn't say there is any point to it. But there shouldn't there still be, you know, freedom of speech? And why does dota get special treatment? Also, bashing games is not at all the same as bashing people. Intellectual discussion on an internet message board? Your answer was like an epitome of why that's an impossible demand. You basically disregarded everything I said and just went on a rant. I think the root of the problem is that peolpe take their respective games way too seriously and immediately get super emotional. People saying bad things about a game you like means NOTHING. Just take it as it is: venting.
I don't know, people are really passionate about League or dota2, so they will might get offended if you bash it. It's eSports, where one of the basic principles is that people take the game more seriously than your average guy does.
And I think if your goal was to get "intellectual discussion" then you took the fundamentally wrong approach by wanting "bashing" to be allowed in the first place. It might just be the terminology, but bashing kind of implies the opposite of a well-rounded discussion.
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On May 23 2014 00:26 d00p wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 00:10 vult wrote:
Bashing games is the same as bashing people - a subjective opinion that does not contribute anything to development of an intellectual discussion. So many people have spoken to no end about what is the better game, yada yada, when you literally CANNOT compare games like SC2 and MOBAs, since they are completely DIFFERENT genres of games. Both require different types of skill and strategy, one revolving on strong mechanics, structured strategies and decisionmaking, and the other relying on teamwork, positioning and planning.
As you may or may not know, TL has different sites for different games now to clean up the different sections of TL and giving everyone their own haven. Just because it is an SC site doesn't mean it is a site that should be advocating and allowing unnecessary and immature flaming of different games that people who play SC might also play.
Grow up, plz. I didn't say there is any point to it. But there shouldn't there still be, you know, freedom of speech? And why does dota get special treatment? Also, bashing games is not at all the same as bashing people. Intellectual discussion on an internet message board? Your answer was like an epitome of why that's an impossible demand. You basically disregarded everything I said and just went on a rant. I think the root of the problem is that peolpe take their respective games way too seriously and immediately get super emotional. People saying bad things about a game you like means NOTHING. Just take it as it is: venting.
Not really sure how I disregarded what you said but oh well. Freedom of speech is not guaranteed on the internet, and TL has the right to exercise moderation wherever they see fit. The difference between those who bash SC2 and those that bash MOBAs is that those who "bash" SC2 give constructive criticisms as to why the game isn't as successful as people want, while those who bash MOBAs stay along the lines of "Ez casual game for n00bs lol no skill". And not everyone who bashes games get away with it, so your sweeping generalization is incorrect.
Intellectual discussion does exist, even on TL. It's all about weeding out those who needlessly flame and keeping those who contribute to the discussion in a somewhat educated manner.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
TL's moderation is what it is, deal with it or leave
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
I actually complained about this >.>
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Northern Ireland22203 Posts
On May 22 2014 23:45 d00p wrote:
TL;DR: This is an SC site and we should be allowed to say nasty shit about mobas. This is still an SC site, isn't it?
I'm sorry, I don't see the relationship between the two. What does this being a SC site have to do with being allowed to shittalk mobas? A far more logical conclusion is that because this is a SC site, we should not be allowed to discuss mobas.
On May 22 2014 23:45 d00p wrote:
I think that some light MOBA bashing should be allowed on TL now that this site is once again Starcraft only. Dota is just so incredibly annoying! I can't help it. The people involved are so obnoxiously positive (about dota, not about other games)
I mean, are you for real? You sound like you're incredibly insecure about Starcraft. Dota is doing well, and people are excited about it, so let's bash it? You're like the pitiful pessimist that gets miserable because other people are happy.
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On May 23 2014 00:43 Targe wrote:
TL's moderation is what it is, deal with it or leave
No point arguing this one. I didn't really think this would go anywhere. Just wanted to know what the general consensus on this might be and I guess I got my answer.
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On May 23 2014 00:44 lichter wrote:
I actually complained about this >.>
Thanks for sharing. But you do need to grow up.
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Northern Ireland22203 Posts
It's just as laughable as some of the newer members who joined for SC2 and who want to kick out the old BW-turned-mobaplayer members.
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EPT
