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I use Facebook a lot. Like, a lot a lot. I generally use it as an outlet to ask questions and bring up discussions about controversial and popular topics (politics, education, science, religion, ethics, etc.) and have meaningful conversations with friends who have varying expertise in different fields (it's somewhat possible on a social network if you avoid the trolls, believe it or not). And this is because I like to learn, and it's largely beneficial for me (and appreciated by my friends, so I'm told).
One of my friends who, like me, is a teacher with a background in studying academic education (I'm a math guy while he's a history guy), posted an education article talking about how teachers are portrayed in our current American culture. I read it and just gave a short response, not particularly expecting anything to emerge from it. But one of his other friends (who I don't know) replied to my comment, setting off a pretty interesting discussion regarding whether or not sending your children to school is an ideal (let alone necessary) decision, and whether or not there should exist compulsory schooling for children. (We didn't talk much about the actual article's topic of portraying teachers, and I'm much more interested in the conversation I had with this other guy). This guy apparently doesn't send his children to school at all, and doesn't feel the need to set up any structured or formalized education for his children. As an educator, I think that's incredibly interesting, but I also feel it's more likely to be detrimental than beneficial for his children in the long run.
I'd like you to read the discussion between me (Red) and this other guy (Blue), and I'd like to hear your thoughts about it (or anything even tangentially related to education or schooling, for that matter). Our mutual friend who posted the article is Green, and the only text I blocked out/ removed were profile pictures and names.
Thanks in advance for taking the time to read it 
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NLbBwVc.jpg)
Now that you've (hopefully) read through the discussion between Red (me) and Blue (the other guy), please vote on which statement you agree most with. If you didn't read the conversation, please don't vote. Thanks!
Poll: Whose position do you agree more with?Red; blue's ideas were pretty flawed. (40) 70% Both red and blue have equally logical, compatible ideas. (8) 14% Blue; red's ideas were pretty flawed. (5) 9% Both red and blue are completely misunderstanding the situation (elaborate via comment). (4) 7% 57 total votes Your vote: Whose position do you agree more with? (Vote): Red; blue's ideas were pretty flawed.
(Vote): Blue; red's ideas were pretty flawed.
(Vote): Both red and blue have equally logical, compatible ideas.
(Vote): Both red and blue are completely misunderstanding the situation (elaborate via comment).
~DPB
EDIT: 24K posts! Yay!
 
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The fun part here is to vote "neither" then not leave a comment elaborating.
(I didn't actually do this).
Homeschooling is a thing and its not that hard so blue might not understand that they can get what they want from that. Unless the US has some weird laws about that Iunno.
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On January 09 2014 03:29 Sn0_Man wrote:
The fun part here is to vote "neither" then not leave a comment elaborating.
(I didn't actually do this).
Homeschooling is a thing and its not that hard so blue might not understand that they can get what they want from that. Unless the US has some weird laws about that Iunno.
Yeah he made it pretty clear that he was *not* homeschooling his kids... he was merely not sending his kids to school (which I didn't even know was legal to do).
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Okay just because he doesn't use the term himself since he objects to it doesn't mean that legally that isn't what he is doing. Its exactly what he is doing. He just attaches negative stigma to the word "school" for unknown reasons and so doesn't want it describing how he is educating his children.
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On January 09 2014 03:35 Sn0_Man wrote:
Okay just because he doesn't use the term himself since he objects to it doesn't mean that legally that isn't what he is doing. Its exactly what he is doing. He just attaches negative stigma to the word "school" for unknown reasons and so doesn't want it describing how he is educating his children.
I figured that's how he's legally doing it, but he's not really attempting any formalization or structure for his kids at all, and I'm pretty sure that homeschooling requires some level of testing and benchmarking.
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How do the kids learn math? I assume they won't, and calculus, physics, chemistry, and all the really useful subjects will be forever locked away. Algebra and calculus are pretty crucial to understand a lot of topics, as well as to make it though any college.
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On January 09 2014 03:48 jrkirby wrote:
How do the kids learn math? I assume they won't, and calculus, physics, chemistry, and all the really useful subjects will be forever locked away. Algebra and calculus are pretty crucial to understand a lot of topics, as well as to make it though any college.
As a math educator, I completely agree. But this guy says he's "very very strong at math and pretty decent at science" so clearly the child is going to learn plenty about algebra, geometry, trigonometry, calculus, biology, chemistry, and physics. Because the guy said "very" twice, so you know he means business.
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Can't stand to read the way blue argues his case, when red is being so civil. Having said that, I don't disagree with some of his points. But ultimately I'm pretty sure the deciding factor, in my opinion, is that (unless home schooling becomes more prevalent) you are just creating an unnecessary barrier to 'fitting in' and settling into a social role in society for your child by home schooling them. Whenever they come to be 'integrated' into a school setting, whichever age this is chosen to be, it is going to probably be traumatic for a good proportion of the children inserted this way. The main problem is probably that they won't have experienced the more negative side of human interaction and won't be that ready for it, they won't have built in defences that we all need at points all the way through our lives to maintain.
I'm sure that his philosophy is a hell of a lot better than a lot of other well-meaning parents though.
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The dad is a qualified teacher and apparently does math with them "when they want to learn it". And they are apparently well ahead of what the normal math level is for their age (this isn't uncommon).
Seems good enough. Note that he isn't suggesting this as a replacement for high school. Although he isn't really saying his kids will do high school either.
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On January 09 2014 03:52 Sn0_Man wrote:
The dad is a qualified teacher and apparently does math with them "when they want to learn it". And they are apparently well ahead of what the normal math level is for their age (this isn't uncommon).
Seems good enough. Note that he isn't suggesting this as a replacement for high school. Although he isn't really saying his kids will do high school either.
I assume this isn't referring to my post.
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On January 09 2014 03:53 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 03:52 Sn0_Man wrote:
The dad is a qualified teacher and apparently does math with them "when they want to learn it". And they are apparently well ahead of what the normal math level is for their age (this isn't uncommon).
Seems good enough. Note that he isn't suggesting this as a replacement for high school. Although he isn't really saying his kids will do high school either. I assume this isn't referring to my post.
no it isnt lol. I don't quote as often as i should
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On January 09 2014 03:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 03:29 Sn0_Man wrote:
The fun part here is to vote "neither" then not leave a comment elaborating.
(I didn't actually do this).
Homeschooling is a thing and its not that hard so blue might not understand that they can get what they want from that. Unless the US has some weird laws about that Iunno. Yeah he made it pretty clear that he was *not* homeschooling his kids... he was merely not sending his kids to school (which I didn't even know was legal to do).
homeschooling is awesome! I was personally homeschooled from the middle of 4th grade to 8th grade.
I learned how how to type effeciently on a computer (continuously typing in cheats to age of mythology), my love for rts games (age of mythology), and that school subjects are boring compared to computer games
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On January 09 2014 03:51 sc4k wrote:
Can't stand to read the way blue argues his case, when red is being so civil. Having said that, I don't disagree with some of his points. But ultimately I'm pretty sure the deciding factor, in my opinion, is that (unless home schooling becomes more prevalent) you are just creating an unnecessary barrier to 'fitting in' and settling into a social role in society for your child by home schooling them. Whenever they come to be 'integrated' into a school setting, whichever age this is chosen to be, it is going to probably be traumatic for a good proportion of the children inserted this way. The main problem is probably that they won't have experienced the more negative side of human interaction and won't be that ready for it, they won't have built in defences that we all need at points all the way through our lives to maintain.
I'm sure that his philosophy is a hell of a lot better than a lot of other well-meaning parents though.
I agree. I've seen him comment on my friend's other posts, and he's rather eloquent and seems to be smart, so I assume his decision to not send his children to school is not out of some weird phobia or laziness. But I definitely think that there are going to be some social situations that children and young adults learn quite well when integrated into a microcosm like school. Making friends, dating, being on sports teams, joining clubs, study groups, etc.
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Blue sounds like one of those people who refuses to get his kids vaccinated.
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In my opinion, the problem is that this is completely impossible to judge without meeting the blue guy and his children in person. I would say that with most parents, school is probably a better option, simply because most people are useless idiots and being subject only to their teaching would be detrimental for anyone. But the guy can actually be a good exception - and if he is not just boasting about the children being ahead of the curve, the children themselves could be exceptionally smart and for such children, school is an incredible waste of time. I for one would have deeply appreciated to have had an alternative to school, where in 13 years (elementary + high) I learned mainly how to kill time while surviving through absolute boredom (which ironically came in very handy when I started to spend half of my time in airplanes or airports some 10 years later) - but the problem would have been that the alternative definitely wouldn't be my parents ...
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On January 09 2014 04:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 03:51 sc4k wrote:
Can't stand to read the way blue argues his case, when red is being so civil. Having said that, I don't disagree with some of his points. But ultimately I'm pretty sure the deciding factor, in my opinion, is that (unless home schooling becomes more prevalent) you are just creating an unnecessary barrier to 'fitting in' and settling into a social role in society for your child by home schooling them. Whenever they come to be 'integrated' into a school setting, whichever age this is chosen to be, it is going to probably be traumatic for a good proportion of the children inserted this way. The main problem is probably that they won't have experienced the more negative side of human interaction and won't be that ready for it, they won't have built in defences that we all need at points all the way through our lives to maintain.
I'm sure that his philosophy is a hell of a lot better than a lot of other well-meaning parents though. I agree. I've seen him comment on my friend's other posts, and he's rather eloquent and seems to be smart, so I assume his decision to not send his children to school is not out of some weird phobia or laziness. But I definitely think that there are going to be some social situations that children and young adults learn quite well when integrated into a microcosm like school. Making friends, dating, being on sports teams, joining clubs, study groups, etc.
"seems to be smart" can also be substituted with "seems confident with his assertions"
being confident and being smart are 2 different things though
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I agree with your main points in the beginning that sending your kids to school is much more beneficial than detrimental to their learning and future opportunities. Blue seems to have a negative connotation with school and I don't think it'll be easy for Blue's kids to have as many opportunities as other children who attend high-school/college.
On January 09 2014 04:03 Smurfett3 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 03:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 09 2014 03:29 Sn0_Man wrote:
The fun part here is to vote "neither" then not leave a comment elaborating.
(I didn't actually do this).
Homeschooling is a thing and its not that hard so blue might not understand that they can get what they want from that. Unless the US has some weird laws about that Iunno. Yeah he made it pretty clear that he was *not* homeschooling his kids... he was merely not sending his kids to school (which I didn't even know was legal to do). I learned how how to type effeciently on a computer (continuously typing in cheats to age of mythology), my love for rts games (age of mythology), and that school subjects are boring compared to computer games
I actually learned how to type fast by typing in cheats whenever I played Starcraft BW. I remember in my fifth grade spelling bee, I beat out the other kids in my class because they gave me the word "overwhelming". Having typed in power overwhelming for god mode just about every game I played, I got that one for sure.
And then, I was CHEATED out of the grade competition when they gave me a word that I'll never forget. They told me to spell residence. I spelled it like residents and they told me that was wrong. What bs.
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School is not only for education...it is where a child goes to learn how to live within a community as a social being. It is highly detrimental to take this away from a child, because school is a place where lasting friendships can be made, relationships with teachers are created, and just so many X things can happen to you while you are at a position in school. The kids should be doing something like this with a bunch of other students, I don't care if it is public or technical school. They should not be left alone under a restricted human influence. Going to school is not just about education.
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School could be a lot better than it is (judging from what I experienced at German schools obviously), but I seriously doubt that not sending kids to school is a better option.
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Bravo to Blue. His kids will become leaders.
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EPT
