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Many people play Starcraft 2 and the numbers while dwindling are still extremely high for a 3-4 year old game. So is Starcraft 2 fun? games like Dota 2 and LoL and even CS:GO have a very fun group dynamic and skins and items to show off, they have in house leagues constantly running and are very social games. Starcraft 2 is a pretty lonely game overall and if you aren't already friends with Sc2 players chances are you are going to be left in the dust.
Now what makes Sc2 fun if it is? I have played it casually and I can tell that it doesn't seem very fun casually like Dota does, Dota you can play 3 games a month and the fun factor is still there when you jump back in but Sc2 you have to warm up and lose a lot to be back in shape from where you used to be, couple this with the more serious tone to Sc2 since you spend so much more time focusing while playing.
So what keeps people playing Sc2? Does it get more enjoyable if you really focus your time on it and improve to diamond/masters? How can you make the game more fun? Is the game just inherently less fun than Dota/LoL but the 1v1 is what draws people in?
Fake edit* This is mostly devils advocate stuff, I am merely curious.
  
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because the game is fun.
Some games are more fun with friends, like CS, Dota etc, but for me, SC2 is fine to play alone.
unlike other games that you listed, if I want to play it with a mindset to get to as high as possible, I don't have to convince my friends to play it hardcore like I do.
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Canada16217 Posts
The game is fun if you are competitive and want to improve, however if you want to just screw around and do your own builds and play like you don't care if you win(cheeses, battlecruiser rushes or whatever etc) can be fun as well.
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because it is the most hardest, hardcore nerdballer game in the universe and we wouldn't have it any other way
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its really fucking fun for me dunno.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37014 Posts
It's personal preference really. People who find SC2/LoL/Dota 2 fun, find it that way because they enjoy playing the game. Not much more to say than that.
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On November 29 2013 17:13 Seeker wrote:
It's personal preference really. People who find SC2/LoL/Dota 2 fun, find it that way because they enjoy playing the game. Not much more to say than that.
This post is more why do you find it fun? Like what are the reasons behind it.
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For me, coming up with a logical strategy and a few tactics and have it work to how you planned is an awesome feeling, also topped off with good execution in macro and micro helps.
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I really don't know why people play SC2. I guess there are a lot of masochistic people who are into gaming.
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I am someone who really isn't tailored to operate in teamgames too well.
I like the fact that I can choose to be competitive in my own league on a 1v1 basis, with the only factor in the game being myself. I find it hard to deal with potential miscommunication or fuckups that I or teammates make in games such as LoL, to enjoy them fully.
That, and I just keep meeting scrubs in my team on LoL solo queue which stop me from moving forward in MMR.
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On November 29 2013 16:40 igay wrote:
because it is the most hardest, hardcore nerdballer game in the universe and we wouldn't have it any other way
No... there are way harder games in the universe.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37014 Posts
On November 29 2013 17:13 Esoterikk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2013 17:13 Seeker wrote:
It's personal preference really. People who find SC2/LoL/Dota 2 fun, find it that way because they enjoy playing the game. Not much more to say than that. This post is more why do you find it fun? Like what are the reasons behind it.
Well for me personally, I love playing SC2 because I'm in control of everything. I also love how fast I have to play and how quickly I have to think when it comes to making decisions and executing actions. I just love the speed and the intensity behind playing StarCraft. I love LoL and Dota 2 as well, but I sometimes find them rather cumbersome because I'm not the one who decides whether or not I win the game or lose it. It has to be a team decision/team win.
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I don't really find SC2 fun, since the gameplay doesn't have a lot of variety, and doesn't allow for much spontaneity, but I still find myself watching streams. When someone plays a game that's different and creative, or just plain amazing, I do find myself logging in to play some games. I just wish the races had more tools, so you could do more than 1 or 2 things as Terran outside of TvT...
I don't see how anybody could have fun playing DotA, it's pretty much all of the worst aspects of WC3 combined with a terrible playerbase. You could say "Well it's fun with friends", but couldn't you just play FPS or something?
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SC2 takes me into that flow state, where nothing else in the world exists, and anything short of a nuclear war would be unlikely to bring me out of it. Magic: The Gathering and Chess are the other two games that share this attribute for me. LoL/DotA don't, largely due to breaks in the action when I die. These snap me out of my immersion completely.
SC2 is also just the fastest game I know. If I'm ever feeling jittery, like I don't want to focus on anything and have too much energy, I play SC2. It's fast and all-encompassing enough to appeal to that part of me, whereas turn-based game aren't.
That said, it does have it's barriers; it's so easy to become mechanically deficient, the cheese games, etc. But it's just so damn good that even these negatives just take it down to one of my favourite games instead of the unassaultable King of All It Surveys.
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sc2 is funny.
Starcraft Broodwar is fun.
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On November 29 2013 19:32 PineapplePizza wrote:
I don't see how anybody could have fun playing DotA, it's pretty much all of the worst aspects of WC3 combined with a terrible playerbase. You could say "Well it's fun with friends", but couldn't you just play FPS or something?
coz uv never played dota. how hard is it to download a free game and try it out? then you wont have to tell everyone your worthless opinion every time the subject comes up.
guys btw if anyone asks i HATE ZOOS (never been to one they just look pretty shit tho). people r like , why dont u go to the zoo with ur friends? well why cant i just play dota instead???? jeez
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I find sc2 way more intense and more a sport than game. Most of the other major titles seem casual and slow by comparison. I want a mechanically challenging competitive game where victory comes from going all out against my opponent with mind and hands working in relentless unison. A game where I can answer the phone or go afk, still do ok then blame teammates when I lose just doesn't appeal.
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On November 29 2013 16:03 Esoterikk wrote:Starcraft 2 is a pretty lonely game overall and if you aren't already friends with Sc2 players chances are you are going to be left in the dust.
It really annoys me when people say this, especially because there are a lot of people who seem to think this. Yes, the game is lonely when you don't join a clan, never have a chat with your opponent in 1v1 or teammates in 2v2, don't visit chat channels, don't look for practice partners etc. Do people expect that a social experience is simply thrown at them? If you simply put in a little bit of effort SC2 can be a very social game, anyone who thinks it's a lonely game only has himself to blame. I've always had a lot of fun interacting with people, if I was in the mood for it.
As for the game itself, I think it is fun for a lot of reasons. It is the most competitive and skill-demanding game to be released in recent years, but on the other hand it can also be a lot of fun if you just want to play casually because of teamgames and the arcade. What appeals to me personally the most is that there is always a lot of progression to make, no matter how good you are. Also playing random probably has made this game a lot more fun than if I had stuck with 1 race.
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I've always loved RTS style games. The idea of building a bigger better army combined with the strategy of when/where to attack (and with what) has always interested me. The mechanics (although not near as difficult as say BW) are challenging enough to prevent me going into autopilot.
I like action / twitch games (subspace was one of my all time favorite games) but they lack depth.
I like strategy games (risk and axis vs allies were some of my favorite board games) but turn based ones are often too slow.
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SC2 is fun in the arcade and single player modes. The ladder isn't fun.
But playing competitively isn't supposed to be fun, it's about excitement and trying to win.
Not everything needs to be fun to be "good", there are other qualities to a good game (or book or movie or anything, Citizen Kane isn't a "fun" movie but still considered a masterpiece.).
I'm not a competitive minded person, so I've stopped playing SC2 ladder, and when I played WoW I preferred raiding over PvP. For competitive minded people, I am sure the ladder is engaging and fulfilling (and rage-inducing when you lose).
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for me sc2 is fun cause after every game i want to "fix" my mistake i did last game. It pushes me...
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Starcraft made me a better person. Its fun if you want to push your capabilities. Its like training for a marathon, slowly improving yourself, climbing up the ladder. :D
(but blizzard ruined it....hey lets nerf stuff so people can only win a game playing safe and getting a lucky clusterfuck in the lategame, bye bye strategy)
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Most fun part for me is playing with friends of course and just doing random crazy strats. Of course, the same could be said of almost any game. Being with people can make pretty much anything fun (and we probably end up playing more Arcade than actual SC2 games).
But I much prefer playing Starcraft solo as opposed to say League of Legends. In both cases, they're intensely skilled matches that I view more as a competition than a fun game, but I much prefer Starcraft's 1v1 to League's soloQ. The simple reason for this is that in LoL, you have to play with other people, and this can hinder my experience in 2 major ways:
1)When I play bad (not uncommon haha), it negatively affects my team. This makes losing feel awful
2)One of my teammates could be a jerk (not uncommon). I don't mind if my opponent is BM, but when it's my ally, it's not a cool experience.
In SC2 laddering, there's nothing like that that really detracts from the game.
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On November 29 2013 17:51 ninazerg wrote:
I really don't know why people play SC2. I guess there are a lot of masochistic people who are into gaming.
lol Nina, this is one of the best / and most true post's that I have ever seen on this website........
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It combines twich/mechanics of FPS games with strategy. Best of both worlds in my opinion and that's what makes it fun for me. I like the 1v1 competitive aspect. Also, I find it incredibly fun analyzing and trying to improve my play by going over replays and seeing what mistakes I or my opponent did, optimizing build orders, working on macro and mirco etc etc etc and all that good stuff. Believe it or not, I find all this incredibly fun.
When I want to have some "mindless" fun or "easier" fun, I play games like Diablo 3, Skyrim, Path of Exile or Counterstrike GO.
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No it is not fun for me anymore, for more than two years. The game is just too stressfull and you feel lonely.
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On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
(but blizzard ruined it....hey lets nerf stuff so people can only win a game playing safe and getting a lucky clusterfuck in the lategame, bye bye strategy)
lol... such a retarded attitude. Luck doesn't play much of a role in late game (the better player usually wins). SC2 is far less luck based now than early WoL and there's plenty of strategy. Though I guess you can keep calling it a no strategy, coinflip clusterfuck so you don't feel bad about sucking.
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On November 30 2013 10:15 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
(but blizzard ruined it....hey lets nerf stuff so people can only win a game playing safe and getting a lucky clusterfuck in the lategame, bye bye strategy) lol... such a retarded attitude. Luck doesn't play much of a role in late game (the better player usually wins). SC2 is far less luck based now than early WoL and there's plenty of strategy. Though I guess you can keep calling it a no strategy, coinflip clusterfuck so you don't feel bad about sucking.
Nah, SBT is actually right, and insulting him doesn't make you right.
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tbh i felt the times playing aoe2 were more fun to me. maybe because i played it with my friends of the university in a pc bang, so the atmosphere was better.
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On November 30 2013 19:15 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2013 10:15 Scarecrow wrote:On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
(but blizzard ruined it....hey lets nerf stuff so people can only win a game playing safe and getting a lucky clusterfuck in the lategame, bye bye strategy) lol... such a retarded attitude. Luck doesn't play much of a role in late game (the better player usually wins). SC2 is far less luck based now than early WoL and there's plenty of strategy. Though I guess you can keep calling it a no strategy, coinflip clusterfuck so you don't feel bad about sucking. Nah, SBT is actually right, and insulting him doesn't make you right.
Nope, reading his post and applying logic makes me right, the insult was superfluous. Surprised anyone tried to defend a post that stupid.
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Quite simple: I love 1v1. I love competition. I love using my brain. I can move my fingers quickly.
Other reasons: Team games suck, MOBAs are boring and the weather is always shitty in Germany.
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On December 01 2013 20:42 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2013 19:15 ninazerg wrote:On November 30 2013 10:15 Scarecrow wrote:On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
(but blizzard ruined it....hey lets nerf stuff so people can only win a game playing safe and getting a lucky clusterfuck in the lategame, bye bye strategy) lol... such a retarded attitude. Luck doesn't play much of a role in late game (the better player usually wins). SC2 is far less luck based now than early WoL and there's plenty of strategy. Though I guess you can keep calling it a no strategy, coinflip clusterfuck so you don't feel bad about sucking. Nah, SBT is actually right, and insulting him doesn't make you right. Nope, reading his post and applying logic makes me right, the insult was superfluous. Surprised anyone tried to defend a post that stupid.
I played starcraft for a big deal in the past before i quit. I got to high masters and even beaten high GM players in tournaments.
In a strategy game you are supposed to have options, blizzard took them away, its not about strategy anymore, its how well you can multitask for 15 minutes to decide the game in one big clusterfuck. I really dont care whether you insult my intelligence or not man, i guess after all this is the internet, where little people suddenly become big men. Enjoy your day.
(If you want to start an agrument, do it without the insults)
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I can think of quite a few games that are more fun than starcraft 2
there are also games that are both more fun and also have a similarly high skill curve. Unless you're really fascinated by the idea of RTS games or are seriously trying to make money playing video games, I think there's a lot better options for gaming.
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On December 02 2013 01:10 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 20:42 Scarecrow wrote:On November 30 2013 19:15 ninazerg wrote:On November 30 2013 10:15 Scarecrow wrote:On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
(but blizzard ruined it....hey lets nerf stuff so people can only win a game playing safe and getting a lucky clusterfuck in the lategame, bye bye strategy) lol... such a retarded attitude. Luck doesn't play much of a role in late game (the better player usually wins). SC2 is far less luck based now than early WoL and there's plenty of strategy. Though I guess you can keep calling it a no strategy, coinflip clusterfuck so you don't feel bad about sucking. Nah, SBT is actually right, and insulting him doesn't make you right. Nope, reading his post and applying logic makes me right, the insult was superfluous. Surprised anyone tried to defend a post that stupid. I played starcraft for a big deal in the past before i quit. I got to high masters and even beaten high GM players in tournaments. I really dont care whether you insult my intelligence or not man, i guess after all this is the internet, where little people suddenly become big men. Enjoy your day. (If you want to start an agrument, do it without the insults)
On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:can only win a game playing safe
well that's just simply not true, there are plenty of ways to win by being aggressive
You also said winning takes: On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:a lucky clusterfuck in the late game
Taeja must be so lucky to win all those tourneys. How the hell was Rain's late game PvP so good? He must be just really lucky too.... Seriously, late game is the culmination of everything either player has done leading up to it and winning it requires better control, scouting, composition, decisionmaking or positional play. Luck or randomness is hardly a significant factor in late game.
On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:bye bye strategy
By this I assume you mean there is no strategy in late game (or the game in general)
hmmm... no strategy in late game SC... maybe there's less of the 'special tactics' variety but to say it's gone once late game comes around defies logic.
I'm also masters, so what, your rank doesn't automatically make your posts valid. I wasn't looking for an argument, I was just irritated to see a post so out of touch with reality. If you can defend any of the 3 statements above I'd be stunned. It just seems like you're bitter and developed this warped view of the game to justify your quitting.
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On December 02 2013 02:45 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 01:10 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On December 01 2013 20:42 Scarecrow wrote:On November 30 2013 19:15 ninazerg wrote:On November 30 2013 10:15 Scarecrow wrote:On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
(but blizzard ruined it....hey lets nerf stuff so people can only win a game playing safe and getting a lucky clusterfuck in the lategame, bye bye strategy) lol... such a retarded attitude. Luck doesn't play much of a role in late game (the better player usually wins). SC2 is far less luck based now than early WoL and there's plenty of strategy. Though I guess you can keep calling it a no strategy, coinflip clusterfuck so you don't feel bad about sucking. Nah, SBT is actually right, and insulting him doesn't make you right. Nope, reading his post and applying logic makes me right, the insult was superfluous. Surprised anyone tried to defend a post that stupid. I played starcraft for a big deal in the past before i quit. I got to high masters and even beaten high GM players in tournaments. I really dont care whether you insult my intelligence or not man, i guess after all this is the internet, where little people suddenly become big men. Enjoy your day. (If you want to start an agrument, do it without the insults) Show nested quote +On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:can only win a game playing safe well that's just simply not true, there are plenty of ways to win by being aggressive You also said winning takes: Show nested quote +On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:a lucky clusterfuck in the late game Taeja must be so lucky to win all those tourneys. How the hell was Rain's late game PvP so good? He must be just really lucky too.... Seriously, late game is the culmination of everything either player has done leading up to it and winning it requires better control, scouting, composition, decisionmaking or positional play. Luck or randomness is hardly a significant factor in late game. By this I assume you mean there is no strategy in late game (or the game in general) hmmm... no strategy in late game SC... maybe there's less of the 'special tactics' variety but to say it's gone once late game comes around defies logic. I'm also masters, so what, your rank doesn't automatically make your posts valid. I wasn't looking for an argument, I was just irritated to see a post so out of touch with reality. If you can defend any of the 3 statements above I'd be stunned. It just seems like you're bitter and developed this warped view of the game to justify your quitting.
Ok. now we can talk.
Yea i will not disagree that the winner of the game is the one who makes the least mistakes.
Its the fact that the game must be taken to the lategame that annoys me. Yea you can be aggresive early and midgame, but it will all be to have a winning edge in the late game. In chess, if your opponent isnt careful you can finish the game straight away after a few moves, thats strategy. You can agrue that you can do the same in starcraft, which you can if your opponent makes big mistakes (but it would need to be a major screw up).
Fact is simply that an attacking player in the early and mid stages of the game has to commit more resources into units and give up more economy then the defending player to do anything meaningful. They made it really easy to sit back and macro all day long. I dont find that intresting. Basic logic should dictate that if i put more resources in an attack then my opponent that i should win, but that rarely happens because of units like the mothershipcore etc. Hey lets spawn a cheap unit while i macro and spawn no units to stop an attack thats worth 10 times my units.
This used to be a very unforgiving game that could be decided in the first few minutes, i liked that about starcraft, but its not that same game anymore. I still respect the game because its a hard one, and it has a high skill ceiling, but strategy wise it feels dumbed down, it still is a very complex game, but its not the unforgiving game anymore....its an accumulation of mistakes that make you lose a game, not just 1 mistake (if people make mistakes its their fault, game shouldnt be so forgiving).
And i dont need to justify my quitting, i simply dont have time to play any games at all anymore these days.
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On December 02 2013 03:21 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 02:45 Scarecrow wrote:On December 02 2013 01:10 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On December 01 2013 20:42 Scarecrow wrote:On November 30 2013 19:15 ninazerg wrote:On November 30 2013 10:15 Scarecrow wrote:On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
(but blizzard ruined it....hey lets nerf stuff so people can only win a game playing safe and getting a lucky clusterfuck in the lategame, bye bye strategy) lol... such a retarded attitude. Luck doesn't play much of a role in late game (the better player usually wins). SC2 is far less luck based now than early WoL and there's plenty of strategy. Though I guess you can keep calling it a no strategy, coinflip clusterfuck so you don't feel bad about sucking. Nah, SBT is actually right, and insulting him doesn't make you right. Nope, reading his post and applying logic makes me right, the insult was superfluous. Surprised anyone tried to defend a post that stupid. I played starcraft for a big deal in the past before i quit. I got to high masters and even beaten high GM players in tournaments. I really dont care whether you insult my intelligence or not man, i guess after all this is the internet, where little people suddenly become big men. Enjoy your day. (If you want to start an agrument, do it without the insults) On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:can only win a game playing safe well that's just simply not true, there are plenty of ways to win by being aggressive You also said winning takes: On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:a lucky clusterfuck in the late game Taeja must be so lucky to win all those tourneys. How the hell was Rain's late game PvP so good? He must be just really lucky too.... Seriously, late game is the culmination of everything either player has done leading up to it and winning it requires better control, scouting, composition, decisionmaking or positional play. Luck or randomness is hardly a significant factor in late game. On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:bye bye strategy By this I assume you mean there is no strategy in late game (or the game in general) hmmm... no strategy in late game SC... maybe there's less of the 'special tactics' variety but to say it's gone once late game comes around defies logic. I'm also masters, so what, your rank doesn't automatically make your posts valid. I wasn't looking for an argument, I was just irritated to see a post so out of touch with reality. If you can defend any of the 3 statements above I'd be stunned. It just seems like you're bitter and developed this warped view of the game to justify your quitting. Ok. now we can talk. Yea i will not disagree that the winner of the game is the one who makes the least mistakes. Its the fact that the game must be taken to the lategame that annoys me. Yea you can be aggresive early and midgame, but it will all be to have a winning edge in the late game. In chess, if your opponent isnt careful you can finish the game straight away after a few moves, thats strategy. You can agrue that you can do the same in starcraft, which you can if your opponent makes big mistakes (but it would need to be a major screw up). Fact is simply that an attacking player in the early and mid stages of the game has to commit more resources into units and give up more economy then the defending player to do anything meaningful. They made it really easy to sit back and macro all day long. I dont find that intresting. Basic logic should dictate that if i put more resources in an attack then my opponent that i should win, but that rarely happens because of units like the mothershipcore etc. Hey lets spawn a cheap unit while i macro and spawn no units to stop an attack thats worth 10 times my units. This used to be a very unforgiving game that could be decided in the first few minutes, i liked that about starcraft, but its not that same game anymore. I still respect the game because its a hard one, and it has a high skill ceiling, but strategy wise it feels dumbed down, it still is a very complex game, but its not the unforgiving game anymore....its an accumulation of mistakes that make you lose a game, not just 1 mistake (if people make mistakes its their fault, game shouldnt be so forgiving). And i dont need to justify my quitting, i simply dont have time to play any games at all anymore these days.
I can see what you're saying but surely making games last longer actually leaves more room for strategy? You have to have follow-ups and anticipate each other's next moves after doing damage rather than simply killing them in early WoL. The game was far simpler strategically when if you missed a forcefield you die... now you get behind but you can fight back. The game used to have so many 1 base all-ins that were very successful because of small maps, limited scouting and less defender's advantage. That made for short games decided by one fuck up with little opportunity for players to show off strategies like sOs and Naniwa do today. Basic logic might dictate that more resources in an attack should beat less resources defending but that makes for a shitty rts where you can get a slight build order/scouting edge and snowball it into a win. MSC can't hold 10 times as much stuff (you seem to like hyperbole) and becomes far less relevant after the early game whilst allowing for some tech/greed that makes the game more complex.
Basically, a game based on the accumulation of mistakes (rather than one) allows for more comebacks and back and forth with less lucky insta-wins. One of the things that made BW so great is that it was very hard to outright kill someone, and better players could almost always fight back due to long rally distances, pathing and high ground advantage. I agree that the mocore has made SC2 a little too passive in the early game but players are finding ways to work around it and it has vastly improved the quality of PvP.
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On December 02 2013 09:08 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 03:21 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On December 02 2013 02:45 Scarecrow wrote:On December 02 2013 01:10 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On December 01 2013 20:42 Scarecrow wrote:On November 30 2013 19:15 ninazerg wrote:On November 30 2013 10:15 Scarecrow wrote:On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
(but blizzard ruined it....hey lets nerf stuff so people can only win a game playing safe and getting a lucky clusterfuck in the lategame, bye bye strategy) lol... such a retarded attitude. Luck doesn't play much of a role in late game (the better player usually wins). SC2 is far less luck based now than early WoL and there's plenty of strategy. Though I guess you can keep calling it a no strategy, coinflip clusterfuck so you don't feel bad about sucking. Nah, SBT is actually right, and insulting him doesn't make you right. Nope, reading his post and applying logic makes me right, the insult was superfluous. Surprised anyone tried to defend a post that stupid. I played starcraft for a big deal in the past before i quit. I got to high masters and even beaten high GM players in tournaments. I really dont care whether you insult my intelligence or not man, i guess after all this is the internet, where little people suddenly become big men. Enjoy your day. (If you want to start an agrument, do it without the insults) On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:can only win a game playing safe well that's just simply not true, there are plenty of ways to win by being aggressive You also said winning takes: On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:a lucky clusterfuck in the late game Taeja must be so lucky to win all those tourneys. How the hell was Rain's late game PvP so good? He must be just really lucky too.... Seriously, late game is the culmination of everything either player has done leading up to it and winning it requires better control, scouting, composition, decisionmaking or positional play. Luck or randomness is hardly a significant factor in late game. On November 30 2013 02:34 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:bye bye strategy By this I assume you mean there is no strategy in late game (or the game in general) hmmm... no strategy in late game SC... maybe there's less of the 'special tactics' variety but to say it's gone once late game comes around defies logic. I'm also masters, so what, your rank doesn't automatically make your posts valid. I wasn't looking for an argument, I was just irritated to see a post so out of touch with reality. If you can defend any of the 3 statements above I'd be stunned. It just seems like you're bitter and developed this warped view of the game to justify your quitting. Ok. now we can talk. Yea i will not disagree that the winner of the game is the one who makes the least mistakes. Its the fact that the game must be taken to the lategame that annoys me. Yea you can be aggresive early and midgame, but it will all be to have a winning edge in the late game. In chess, if your opponent isnt careful you can finish the game straight away after a few moves, thats strategy. You can agrue that you can do the same in starcraft, which you can if your opponent makes big mistakes (but it would need to be a major screw up). Fact is simply that an attacking player in the early and mid stages of the game has to commit more resources into units and give up more economy then the defending player to do anything meaningful. They made it really easy to sit back and macro all day long. I dont find that intresting. Basic logic should dictate that if i put more resources in an attack then my opponent that i should win, but that rarely happens because of units like the mothershipcore etc. Hey lets spawn a cheap unit while i macro and spawn no units to stop an attack thats worth 10 times my units. This used to be a very unforgiving game that could be decided in the first few minutes, i liked that about starcraft, but its not that same game anymore. I still respect the game because its a hard one, and it has a high skill ceiling, but strategy wise it feels dumbed down, it still is a very complex game, but its not the unforgiving game anymore....its an accumulation of mistakes that make you lose a game, not just 1 mistake (if people make mistakes its their fault, game shouldnt be so forgiving). And i dont need to justify my quitting, i simply dont have time to play any games at all anymore these days. I can see what you're saying but surely making games last longer actually leaves more room for strategy? You have to have follow-ups and anticipate each other's next moves after doing damage rather than simply killing them in early WoL. The game was far simpler strategically when if you missed a forcefield you die... now you get behind but you can fight back. The game used to have so many 1 base all-ins that were very successful because of small maps, limited scouting and less defender's advantage. That made for short games decided by one fuck up with little opportunity for players to show off strategies like sOs and Naniwa do today. Basic logic might dictate that more resources in an attack should beat less resources defending but that makes for a shitty rts where you can get a slight build order/scouting edge and snowball it into a win. MSC can't hold 10 times as much stuff (you seem to like hyperbole) and becomes far less relevant after the early game whilst allowing for some tech/greed that makes the game more complex. Basically, a game based on the accumulation of mistakes (rather than one) allows for more comebacks and back and forth with less lucky insta-wins. One of the things that made BW so great is that it was very hard to outright kill someone, and better players could almost always fight back due to long rally distances, pathing and high ground advantage. I agree that the mocore has made SC2 a little too passive in the early game but players are finding ways to work around it and it has vastly improved the quality of PvP.
I guess it depends on how you like to play. I know i would rather watch a short 8 minute game then a long macro game. When starcraft just got released it was amazing to see some of the wonky early game stuff being done, but it was this wonky stuff that made the game really fun to watch, to see players winning or losing a game with awesome unit control and crazy tactics in the first few minutes of the game....for me, that is starcraft. I know people dont like cheese and allins, but its that which makes starcraft interesting for me. Late game engagements are not only boring to watch, but unless you are a pro with 300 apm your not going to make alot of difference with your unit control when an engagement goes down. That doesnt mean pros dont do amazing stuff, and i respect the multitasking they are able to do at such high speed, but most games are just 15minutes of simcity with some harassment going on and subtleties that the average starcraft player doesnt even understand. For me its boring to watch and boring to play. But then again, i was the kind of player that would spent alot of time trying to figure out the perfect build order for the perfect 2-base allin, how i could make the strongest possible attack while still playing reactive to their build order. That was fun, and maybe thats the only reason why i managed to take some games from profesional players, because i did wonky stuff...but for me, thats the starcraft i grew up with and learned to love.
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I'll tell you what doesn't keep me playing... the arcade or it didn't I know that I haven't logged on to battle.net for a while, but I assume that the arcade is just as bad as it used to be.
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for me what makes it fun is when i start to beat my friends - fun and competitive.
Also another way to have fun is when you watch your replay and start to enjoy how bad or good you were after a long hectic game. I do that after a break. I really like it when the game goes to epic 30, 45 to an hour games.
Also last but the best of my reasons, is the BM some players produce. iI is really fun for me. I dont know about yall but when I see the rage I imagine their faces. With that you could check out the BM thread to see how entertaining BMs can be. More if you were the one's BMed. Unlike in dota its more of whining saying you are bad etc but in SC2 it is pure rage because they cant blame others but themselves 
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EPT
