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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
On September 25 2013 01:43 Smurfett3 wrote: pragmatic reason, it is beneficial towards a more fulfilling lifestyle If it´s not an emotional need, how could it be fulfilling. I mean, that´s the whole deal with satisfaction: satisfy a need, if there´s no need, then there´s no satisfaction, but also no problem, to begin with. | ||
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EJK
United States1302 Posts
On September 25 2013 02:30 Daswollvieh wrote: If it´s not an emotional need, how could it be fulfilling. I mean, that´s the whole deal with satisfaction: satisfy a need, if there´s no need, then there´s no satisfaction, but also no problem, to begin with. I have a need to always reach out and try to achieve a better life for myself. I am intelligent enough to recognize that I have more knowledge than I need to be satisfied with, but not enough emotional interactions to satisfy that need. edit: Building more trusting relationships so that after 5 years, I don't feel depressed because I have no friends, no social life, and am going nowhere with my life in terms of human connections On September 25 2013 02:26 ktimekiller wrote: Tip 1 stop trusting bullshit online personality tests because they make you feel special unfortunately all they do is confirm what I already know about myself to be true so.....it's not really "trusting" but affirming" my beliefs | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
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EJK
United States1302 Posts
On September 25 2013 02:52 spinesheath wrote: For everything on the internet that affirms your existing beliefs, there is something that opposes them. But people are extremely likely to only believe whatever affirms their existing beliefs. Even, and I'm not kidding - this was shown in experiments, if they know that the affirming source is invalid. I am familiar with that concept, I think it's called cognitive bias. Of course this can't be completely avoided, but I use logic in order to prove my beliefs wrong before I use it to affirm them so I can try to most effectively think my way around my bias's | ||
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KillerSOS
United States4207 Posts
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MoonfireSpam
United Kingdom1153 Posts
Perhaps the deeper question is: in your persuit of a perfect existence, what has made you feel you need to change those bits about you and how would they add to your happiness? You sound young. Personality tests are retarded. | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On September 24 2013 13:29 Smurfett3 wrote: mmm im below drinking age, so it has to be learned sober ^^ What I've discovered is that if you hang around tipsy people, you kind of feel a bit tipsy yourself even if you're stone-cold sober. A bit odd, but there you go. I also agree that, if you're unsure about opening up to people, you can definitely form better connections with people if they open up first. That will give you more leeway and comfort in doing the same with them if you so choose. | ||
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Erik.TheRed
United States1655 Posts
On September 25 2013 02:26 ktimekiller wrote: Tip 1 stop trusting bullshit online personality tests because they make you feel special Pretty much this. Personality tests are about as reliable as horoscopes-- at best they will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. And if you think horoscopes are legit, I'll leave you with this: | ||
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
I tested as an INTJ. Those personality type profiles will tell me that I'm arrogant, not very emotional, and pretty introverted. Yes, that's true, because I basically told the test that already. Since your type is similar, maybe you have the same problems. I didn't look at what I was prescribed to be wrong with me to change myself. I said "hm, I'm a bit too shy. I should be more outgoing." and I worked on improving that. It could've just been puberty, but if you make a conscious effort to change you can do it. I think most would agree that the benefits of being extroverted outweigh the benefits of introversion pretty handily. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong about being less emotional tbh. You just have to realize that other people may be more emotional and try to play off their wants and desires, even if you might not feel as strongly. Arrogance/condescension is actually not bad most of the time if you can keep it in check. If you are reasonably social and actually know the shit that you claim to know, it can help you be taken more seriously and be a de facto leader. @Moonfire There's nothing wrong with wanting to change a part of you. People change all the time. I know people say that to be happy you have to be happy with yourself, but for some of us we need to change ourselves to become a person that we want to be. I didn't want to be this shy, unassertive kid my whole life. I wanted to be able to talk to girls, have more friends, be well-liked. | ||
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EJK
United States1302 Posts
On September 25 2013 07:02 MoonfireSpam wrote: Can't really teach empathy, you just go out and hang out with people. You'll either get it or you won't. Most people aren't interesting, but you're that determined you can hang around them to learn about people. Perhaps the deeper question is: in your persuit of a perfect existence, what has made you feel you need to change those bits about you and how would they add to your happiness? You sound young. Personality tests are retarded. Most people are infact, not interesting. But, what's to say that that makes their life inferior to mine that I can't learn something that they might be able to teach me On September 25 2013 07:37 Chocolate wrote: Personality tests are pretty silly. If you say that you find it hard to express emotions while you're taking the test, like to hug the wall in social situations, say that you're really logical, of course the test thing is going to say that you're bad at showing emotions or can be arrogant. You pretty much already said that, the test is just spitting stuff back out at you. It's good to focus on your flaws to try to make yourself better, but don't focus on them in the context of your personality type. Look at what YOU think your flaws are. I've actually done this, so let me help. I tested as an INTJ. Those personality type profiles will tell me that I'm arrogant, not very emotional, and pretty introverted. Yes, that's true, because I basically told the test that already. Since your type is similar, maybe you have the same problems. I didn't look at what I was prescribed to be wrong with me to change myself. I said "hm, I'm a bit too shy. I should be more outgoing." and I worked on improving that. It could've just been puberty, but if you make a conscious effort to change you can do it. I think most would agree that the benefits of being extroverted outweigh the benefits of introversion pretty handily. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong about being less emotional tbh. You just have to realize that other people may be more emotional and try to play off their wants and desires, even if you might not feel as strongly. Arrogance/condescension is actually not bad most of the time if you can keep it in check. If you are reasonably social and actually know the shit that you claim to know, it can help you be taken more seriously and be a de facto leader. @Moonfire There's nothing wrong with wanting to change a part of you. People change all the time. I know people say that to be happy you have to be happy with yourself, but for some of us we need to change ourselves to become a person that we want to be. I didn't want to be this shy, unassertive kid my whole life. I wanted to be able to talk to girls, have more friends, be well-liked. Well I want to work on my emotional intelligence and emotional awareness of other people. It is a known flaw I have come to recognize over the years. I have gone through a brief phase of depression, and also have started racking up my own personal hardship experiences. I am not going through a particularly rough time right now, but I am aware enough that life will continue to throw adversities my way until the day I die. As little emotional intelligence I have, during rough periods it also became a burden becuase I had little to no emotional support available to me. And I felt alone and small and insignificant. I guess what I would consider to be doing now would be just taking precautions and building a safety net for myself for later | ||
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MysteryMeat1
United States3288 Posts
On September 25 2013 07:35 Erik.TheRed wrote: Pretty much this. Personality tests are about as reliable as horoscopes-- at best they will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. And if you think horoscopes are legit, I'll leave you with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsqlyj3OR9A I think you were looking for this Erik | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
I tested as an INTJ. Those personality type profiles will tell me that I'm arrogant, not very emotional, and pretty introverted. Yes, that's true, because I basically told the test that already. Actually MBTI is an analytical tool which does a little more than spew back your own personal input. Its principle contribution is to arrange people by the dominance of their cognitive functions. An INTJ is Ni dominant, Te auxiliary, Fi Tertiary and Se Inferior, which can be worked out in combination to help explain things like how you process information, how you look at new information, how you integrate new experiences with preexisting knowledge, etc. Most helpfully it can help you understand other types, and how they do these things differently from yourself. Most of the feedback you get from "personality profiles" are pretty superficial: they list the tendencies, but they usually don't go into much analysis of how your functions contribute to those tendencies. Example: OP lists his strengths as objectivity, honesty, and analytical prowess, and his weaknesses as insensitivity, privacy and arrogance. The irony is that these are stereotypically INTJ traits as well as INTP traits, yet an INTP shares no functions in common with an INTJ (INTPs are Ti Ne Si Fe.) INTPs may be fellow truth-seekers and objective analysts of the world, but they do it in a completely different manner. Example: INTP personalities are usually proud of their extensive knowledge and reasoning abilities, but they may get easily frustrated trying to describe their thoughts other people. This is a fundamental trait of INTP's dominant Ti (introverted thinking.) INTPs are dominant subjective logicians and introspective reasoners. They think silently, and their thought processing and verbal expression are far more disjointed than an INTJ, who has extroverted thinking. This is why you will see an INTPs being generally slower with expressing their arguments, while they interject "ums" and "uhhs" far more frequently in their verbal output. Another example: INTJs make far faster "truth judgements" with their dominant Introverted Intuition, whereas their auxiliary extroverted thinking is frequently used as a marketing department for their intuition: it has to figure out the best logical explaination to express a preconceived truth. INTPs search for "truth possibilities" with their auxiliary Ne, and sends hundreds of hypotheses upstairs where they will face scrutiny by Ti (checking for internal contradictions, synergy with the archive of facts and experiences stored by the tertiary Si,) and assigning each truth possibility a probability score which will rarely ever attain 0 or 100. | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
Any help/advice on being more emotionally aware of both my feelings and the feelings of people around me, being more open to people (wearing my heart on my sleeve kind of thing), and being able to communicate all the above better so that I don't come off as condescending is what I am really looking for here An INTP is never going to be comfortable wearing his heart on his sleeve, unless it's an inauthentic heart conjured up by his Ne. The essence of INTPs is that they may feel frequently ignored, misunderstood, unappreciated and are generally subjected to suffering for who they are, but they would not be willing to give up who they are to fix all that. Once an INTP realises the compromises he would be forced to make to his personal integrity to purchase the appearance of being more "normal", he usually quickly abandons any such ambition. | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
http://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2013/mar/19/myers-briggs-test-unscientific http://www.indiana.edu/~jobtalk/Articles/develop/mbti.pdf http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2013/05/15/myers-briggs-problems/ None of these critiques understands the MBTI very well. The most common misconception about the MBTI is that it splits up cognitive preferences by diachotomies (introversion vs extroversion, thinking vs feeling), but what MBTI actually says is that everyone is introverted and extroverted, rational as well as emotional. Being based on Jungian theory, its main precept concerns the admittedly Germanic obsession with the revealed and the hidden, the expressed and the suppressed, the visible and the invisible faces of the human psyche. | ||
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Japhybaby
Canada301 Posts
@OP You didn't even say anything you don't like about being INTP. I know two INTP's and I am an INFP. Both these guys seemed quite unable to let any ideas in that conflicted with a previous idea of themselves. I guess that is a common human characteristic though. Might be true for me. | ||
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EJK
United States1302 Posts
On September 25 2013 19:33 MoltkeWarding wrote: INTJs make far faster "truth judgements" with their dominant Introverted Intuition, whereas their auxiliary extroverted thinking is frequently used as a marketing department for their intuition: it has to figure out the best logical explaination to express a preconceived truth. INTPs search for "truth possibilities" with their auxiliary Ne, and sends hundreds of hypotheses upstairs where they will face scrutiny by Ti (checking for internal contradictions, synergy with the archive of facts and experiences stored by the tertiary Si,) and assigning each truth possibility a probability score which will rarely ever attain 0 or 100. that is pretty spot on for me at least O_O On September 25 2013 20:41 MoltkeWarding wrote: An INTP is never going to be comfortable wearing his heart on his sleeve, unless it's an inauthentic heart conjured up by his Ne. The essence of INTPs is that they may feel frequently ignored, misunderstood, unappreciated and are generally subjected to suffering for who they are, but they would not be willing to give up who they are to fix all that. Once an INTP realises the compromises he would be forced to make to his personal integrity to purchase the appearance of being more "normal", he usually quickly abandons any such ambition. I guess what I meant by that was to basically show some more of an extraverted side rather than such a strong introverted side. Granted I still would consider myself an introvert, just not so much dominated by introverted thinking but embracing extroverted thinking as well On September 25 2013 21:56 Japhybaby wrote: I actually don't understand this auxilary dominant stuff MoltkWarding. How do you do it? is it much work to be able to understand all that? I've read an essay by Jung where he talks about how the most exaggerate of each type will be and explains why. @OP You didn't even say anything you don't like about being INTP. I know two INTP's and I am an INFP. Both these guys seemed quite unable to let any ideas in that conflicted with a previous idea of themselves. I guess that is a common human characteristic though. Might be true for me. I am open minded to change just as long as I find it beneficial to me. The key is convincing myself that it is | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
On September 25 2013 21:56 Japhybaby wrote: I actually don't understand this auxilary dominant stuff MoltkWarding. How do you do it? is it much work to be able to understand all that? I've read an essay by Jung where he talks about how the most exaggerate of each type will be and explains why. @OP You didn't even say anything you don't like about being INTP. I know two INTP's and I am an INFP. Both these guys seemed quite unable to let any ideas in that conflicted with a previous idea of themselves. I guess that is a common human characteristic though. Might be true for me. Nope, it's pretty simple. To begin with, MBTI deals with two questions: How do we perceive things? How do we judge things? These are broken down into the perceiving functions (sensing vs intuition) and the judging functions (thinking vs feeling) These are in turn modified by the questions: do we do these things via introversion or extroversion? MBTI assumes that an extroverted preference in one of the functions is compensated by an introverted preference in the opposing. For instance, an introverted thinker will be an extroverted feeler, introverted intuition is paired with extroverted sensing. Then the J vs P diachotomy basically modifies the pairings, hence the J in INTJ means that introversion is paired with the perceiving function, whereas the P in INTP means that introversion is paired with the judging function. Then the breakdown of the four active functions: dominant, auxiliary, tertiary and inferior basically assigns the other in which we use these functions by preference/habit. This is not a mind-reading test. An introverted thinker like an INTP can behave like an extroverted thinker, if he requires it for school or a job (especially if he learns to imitate an extroverted thinker,) but this will not be the behaviour most natural to him. When left alone, in his basement, he would rather sit on the couch, stare off into space, and work on various mental problems like a zombie. Basically the dominant function asks: what are you doing in your zombie-state? The INTP with Ti will basically say: I think to myself, whereas an INFP with Fi will say: I am sorting through my feelings, or an ESFP with Se will say: I am looking at pretty stuff and flashy lights. As we grow older and become better-rounded people, we increasingly develop our lesser functions. A more mature INTP will become better at things like empathy and showing how he feels, because of his inferior extroverted feeling, although an INTP will never have the same facility or naturalness with that as compared to a dominant Fe. Similarly, an Fe dominant/Ti inferior person like an ESFJ will learn better how to look at things via introspective logic, but they will only use it on a few occasions and with considerably less dexterity. More likely is the scenario where the ESFJ will complain to the INTP about how unfair her friends are being, INTP will try to look for reasons as to why that might be, the ESFJ will be angry because they want emotional support and not a critical analysis, and starts complaining about the INTP, the INTP will be taken aback by this and retreat deeper into his Ti to look for the answer there, and what you get is two people talking past each other. Studying MBTI can help you with such problems  About the function order: Every one of the sixteen MBTI types has a list of cognitive functions: INTJ - Ni Te Fi Se INTP - Ti Ne Si Fe INFJ - Ni Fe Ti Se INFP - Fi Ne Si Te ISTJ - Si Te Fi Ne ISTP - Ti Se Ni Fe ISFJ - Si Fe Ti Ne ISFP - Fi Se Ni Te ENTJ - Te Ni Se Fi ENTP - Ne Ti Fe Si ENFJ - Fe Ni Se Ti ENFP - Ne Fi Te Si ESTJ - Te Si Ne Fi ESTP - Se Ti Fe Ni ESFJ - Fe Si Ne Ti ESFP - Se Fi Te Ni I guess what I meant by that was to basically show some more of an extraverted side rather than such a strong introverted side. Granted I still would consider myself an introvert, just not so much dominated by introverted thinking but embracing extroverted thinking as well Like I said, if you want to learn extroverted thinking, learn from those who are best at it: ENTJs and INTJs (I think the latter constitutes nearly half of this forum.) You can also try to look at ESTJs or ISTJs but ordinarily those guys will tend to think INTPs are sloppy, lazy, weird and anarchic, whereas INTPs will tend to think of them as loud, stupid bullies  However, Te is for an INTP what is considered a shadow function, and you try to develop them at your own risk. INTPs have like everyone two extroverted functions: Extroverted intuition, and extroverted feeling. Extroverted intuition is auxiliary, so at a certain point in life this is your main information-gathering function. Through this function, INTPs can become very experimental with life, constantly trying to learn new things, and occasionally even doing new and reckless things. However, the INTP will necessarily be subdued by the dominant Ti (the party pooper function) which basically analyses everything to death and stops you from trying out that new, interesting idea you've been wanting to try. If you want to learn how to put the experimental Ne before the cautious, analytical Ti, learn from ENTPs (Ne Ti Se Ni) who are a lot more outgoing and take a lot more risks. When you let your Ne out, you may be alternatively seen as weird or witty. It generates plenty of humour potential, and is usually a hit with other intuitive types. The trouble with Ne is that it could get you into trouble, since it's pretty anarchic, and coupled with your low levels of empathy, can confuse and offend other people. This is why INTPs (IMO) have trouble making friends among anyone other than N-types (supposedly only 20-25% of the population.) The INTP's dominant social function is one where they love to break/ignore social conventions and it tempts them to say stuff just to get reactions out of other people. The difference between the INTP and ENTP is that the INTP will map out the consequences of his actions before he commits them, sometimes ad nauseum so that he never gets around to committing the action at all. The ENTP will do something first, and think about it later. P.S. Ever been in a situation where someone has told you to stop thinking about something and just do it? As hard as that is for an INTP, it seems to be the thing you are striving for. | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
On September 24 2013 14:33 Chairman Ray wrote: There are probably other ways to forcibly put yourself in social settings, but I think the core issue is that you just haven't been desensitized enough to break the social barrier. There's nothing wrong with talking to people about anything, including your feelings. Nobody will think less of you, and there won't be any repercussions either. I was never really shy, so I don't know what it's like to break from being reserved into being naturally outgoing. However I do have experience with other people. This is a story that happened just a few weeks ago. True story. Some random guy, really awkward and nervous, comes up to me and asks me for girl advice. He starts telling me about how he's really nervous around people and such. It was hard for me to believe for a second because we're complete strangers and he just starts opening up like that. Plus, I'm probably the last guy in the world to ask for girl advice. I wasn't really able to help him much, so we ended up talking about nerdy things and became sorta friends after that. I personally would not have the balls to go up to some stranger and ask them about girl advice. But what I learned from it was that I had no ill feeling towards him, and I didn't think any less of him. In fact, I think he's a pretty comfortable person to be around. So basically, people won't think less of you for being more open. When your brain is telling you to hold back, that's due to fear that comes from uncertainty of what will happen. I'm pretty sure that you already know this well enough, but knowing it will not make you more socially comfortable - the only thing that will make you more socially comfortable is through experience. Just from reading what you wrote so far, you already have a good grasp of social convention. You are definitely not one of those sociopaths that sometimes posts really creepy blogs. There is absolutely no inability on your side that prevents you from building relationships with people. Perhaps you already know you have everything you need, and you wrote this blog just looking for a bit of encouragement, and I think that's all we need to give you. So the next time you find an opportunity to talk comfortably with someone, don't think about it and just do it. As you keep doing it, your logical side won't hold you back anymore. Dude, low blow. | ||
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MoonfireSpam
United Kingdom1153 Posts
On September 25 2013 08:24 Smurfett3 wrote: Most people are infact, not interesting. But, what's to say that that makes their life inferior to mine that I can't learn something that they might be able to teach me Nothing says they are inferior, but you sure as hell won't learn anything from not mixing with em. My point really is, you can find people you find interesting, which makes the process easier, or you can mix with people you don't with makes it harder. Either way, want to see what people could potentially offer you? Then pull your finger out of your arse, stop hiding behind "thinking about it" and just get out and meet people. I'm guessing you may be in university (college for you US guys and gals?) or college (uh high school for you Muricans?) just based on averages and the gaming demographic. Now I don't know what your system is like, but here in the UK there are a billion different societies and clubs to join and take part in which will force social learning (if you really want to). So next week, pick one and join it. From my own experience nothing gets you more disinhibited than joining a Dance class. | ||
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E.L.V.I.S
Belgium458 Posts
On September 24 2013 11:05 biology]major wrote: and it is counter productive to try and change. I recognize myself too +/- and got same result (INTP) and I from my personal experience, I couldnt agree more with the sentence I quote^^ It's better accepting and learn to do things your way imho. | ||
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