In my constant pursuit of happyness and a better life, I have been reading up about my personality and what I can do to better it so that I may have a happier and more fulfilling life. As an INTP, I am pretty much 99% logic and 1% emotions. Here's some of the strengths and weaknesses I believe to have
Strengths
- They feel love and affection for those close to them which is almost childlike in its purity - Generally laid-back and easy-going - Approach things which interest them very enthusiastically - Richly imaginative and creative - Do not feel personally threatened by conflict or criticism
Great analysts and abstract thinkers. INTP personalities are great at noticing patterns and seeing the big picture. They also possess an impressive ability to jump from one idea to another, linking them in ways that usually bewilder most other personality types.
Honest and straightforward. INTPs do not play social games and see no point in sugar-coating their words. They will clearly state their opinion and expect others to return the favor.
Objective. People with the INTP personality are very logical and rational individuals, who see no point in involving emotions in the decision-making process. Consequently, they tend to pride themselves in being fair and impartial.
Weaknesses
- Not naturally in tune with others' feelings; slow to respond to emotional needs - Not naturally good at expressing their own feelings and emotions - Tend to "blow off" conflict situations by ignoring them, or else they "blow up" in heated anger
Insensitive. INTPs are likely to find it difficult to include emotions in their decision-making process, focusing all their efforts on getting the rational basis right. Consequently, they may often come across as insensitive or be puzzled when it comes to dealing with an emotionally-charged situation.
Very private and withdrawn. INTPs are often reluctant to let anyone inside their minds, let alone their hearts. They may often come across as shy in social settings and even the INTP’s friends are likely to have a difficult time getting to know them well.
May be condescending. INTP personalities are usually proud of their extensive knowledge and reasoning abilities, but they may get easily frustrated trying to describe their thoughts other people. INTPs enjoy presenting their ideas to other people, but explaining how they got from A to Z is another matter.
So as great as my strengths are, they are a double edged sword in which I am in fact very private and usually withdrawn, I can be an arrogant fuck, and also insensitive because I don't take emotions seriously and don't place a high value on them.
Any help/advice on being more emotionally aware of both my feelings and the feelings of people around me, being more open to people (wearing my heart on my sleeve kind of thing), and being able to communicate all the above better so that I don't come off as condescending is what I am really looking for here
Firstly, I wouldn't look too far into an online personality test. It's good to give you a general idea, but really it doesn't tell you too much. To give us a better idea of what you are like, do you have any stories or experiences you could share? Anything else like what you think about people and such would help as well.
For reference, I got INTJ on that test (100% INT, 70% J). I also have difficulties grasping human emotion.
this is who you are, and it is what makes you unique. Embrace it and stop over thinking it. I am also an INTJ so I know what you are talking about, and it is counter productive to try and change.
However, if you really want to improve your emotional responsiveness, I think the way to go about it is to intentionally empathize in situations you normally wouldn't (watching TV/Movies), friends/acquaintances. Basically things you normally take for granted at a superficial layer, you have to consciously think about how you would feel in their situation, so that you can connect with them on an emotional, and not logical level. Yes these concepts are foreign to us, but again thts how I see it.
On September 24 2013 11:05 biology]major wrote: this is who you are, and it is what makes you unique. Embrace it and stop over thinking it. I am also an INTJ so I know what you are talking about, and it is counter productive to try and change.
However, if you really want to improve your emotional responsiveness, I think the way to go about it is to intentionally empathize in situations you normally wouldn't (watching TV/Movies), friends/acquaintances. Basically things you normally take for granted at a superficial layer, you have to consciously think about how you would feel in their situation, so that you can connect with them on an emotional, and not logical level. Yes these concepts are foreign to us, but again thts how I see it.
see that, that just looks like words to me. I guess I'd like to be able to understand what that means and how to get better at doing that
It would be a lot easier to give advice based on your life experiences. Ultimately experience is the best teacher. Even if you post your personality test results we have no idea if you're a 52-year-old grizzled investment banker or a 14-year-old silver zerg.
I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you act normally, you will naturally portray yourself as someone who is less emotional and more logical. People will be able to sense your personality and will be able to adapt to it. What would be rude and condescending when spoken by someone else may feel very normally when spoken by you. As example, picture a teacher and a drill sergeant. If the teacher yells at you, you will probably get the sense that you did something horribly wrong or offensive, whereas if the drill sergeant yells as you, that's fairly normal. This example is a bit extreme, but my point is that if you just be yourself, people will be able to read your personality easily and judge you fairly.
The problem arises when you try to interpret emotions or emulate them through a logical approach. Unless you are a psychologist and an actor, you probably won't do a perfect job of it, and that's what will end up throwing people off.
As I said before, we can probably give much better advice if you just post stories, experiences, or any sort of thought process.
Well, I grew up in a moderately recluse environment. Moved across the country going to 3 different schools by the 4th grade before being homeschooled until high school. My best friend was the computer screen growing up, it was the only thing that kept me interested in anything.
High school was the first time I was actually exposed to people and their different personalities and a flutter of emotions, stuff I had never needed or even knew existed in life. I was a popular kid on the outside, but in the inside I was repressing almost all of my emotional responses to everything. I was a classic case of being social, but withholding key parts of my identity from others such as my love for esports. I developed a sense of humor, I learned social ques, but in the grand scheme of things, I was completely unaware of the emotional side of me and being able to effectively communicate my feelings/emotions.
I had a brief year in college (working up to save money so I can support myself financially before I go back) in which I was able to further discover more about myself. I found out things like I was naturally charismatic, my sense of humor was really unique and I started not to be so ashamed of being a nerd. Living in close proximity with so many other people kind of forced me into showing my gamer side, it wasn't something I could hide anymore. And it also helped that people didn't make fun of me or anything about playing so much on a computer, they accepted it as a part of what I did.
Towards the end of the year, I had a close confidant of select individuals who weren't all part of the same friend group, but were people that I trusted. It was the first time in my life that I had enough comfort and trust in them that I could share whatever I was thinking. That was nice, but looking back at it it took me the better part of a year before I could open up to them.
I want to become better at wearing my heart on my sleeve and being able to open up to people after knowing them for a shorter period of time ya know?
I take it that you value a more open personality where you can share your feelings more easily. What's stopping you from doing this? Do you feel too intimidated when opening up to someone who you've only known for a short while, or do you just never get the opportunity to, or do you never manage to create the opportunity?
On September 24 2013 12:23 Chairman Ray wrote: I take it that you value a more open personality where you can share your feelings more easily. What's stopping you from doing this? Do you feel too intimidated when opening up to someone who you've only known for a short while, or do you just never get the opportunity to, or do you never manage to create the opportunity?
I don't think intimidated is the right word, it's just that whenever the opportunity comes along I always fall into a recluse mode and always logic myself out of the situation and opening myself up.
It just doesn't feel natural and i always feel like I am defying what my brain tells me is logically correct to do, which would be to not share my feelings.
Opportunities come and go, I just always seem to become passive to them and choose to keep a distance. Logically it makes sense, emotionally it makes me feel shitty and off for like a week before i get over it. But doing stuff logically also makes me feel good too so that it usually trumps my emotional shiftiness and I continue on with my life
One thing you can do is invite a bunch of your friends to get some drinks and nachos after work or after school. This is probably the best source of social interaction. When everyone is a little tipsy and has been talking for an hour, people naturally get a lot more open with each other. Even if you don't open up to others, others will open up to you. What this does is create you a circle of people that you will feel a lot more comfortable with, even if you haven't known them a long time. You've already broke the emotional barrier with them, so there's won't be nearly as big a struggle talking to them again. Hopefully you'll be more comfortable with sharing your feelings with these people. Eventually with experience, you become a little more desensitized to social interaction, and you'll be able to do it without needing to think about it.
On September 24 2013 13:04 Chairman Ray wrote: One thing you can do is invite a bunch of your friends to get some drinks and nachos after work or after school. This is probably the best source of social interaction. When everyone is a little tipsy and has been talking for an hour, people naturally get a lot more open with each other. Even if you don't open up to others, others will open up to you. What this does is create you a circle of people that you will feel a lot more comfortable with, even if you haven't known them a long time. You've already broke the emotional barrier with them, so there's won't be nearly as big a struggle talking to them again. Hopefully you'll be more comfortable with sharing your feelings with these people. Eventually with experience, you become a little more desensitized to social interaction, and you'll be able to do it without needing to think about it.
mmm im below drinking age, so it has to be learned sober ^^
There are probably other ways to forcibly put yourself in social settings, but I think the core issue is that you just haven't been desensitized enough to break the social barrier. There's nothing wrong with talking to people about anything, including your feelings. Nobody will think less of you, and there won't be any repercussions either. I was never really shy, so I don't know what it's like to break from being reserved into being naturally outgoing. However I do have experience with other people.
This is a story that happened just a few weeks ago. True story. Some random guy, really awkward and nervous, comes up to me and asks me for girl advice. He starts telling me about how he's really nervous around people and such. It was hard for me to believe for a second because we're complete strangers and he just starts opening up like that. Plus, I'm probably the last guy in the world to ask for girl advice. I wasn't really able to help him much, so we ended up talking about nerdy things and became sorta friends after that. I personally would not have the balls to go up to some stranger and ask them about girl advice. But what I learned from it was that I had no ill feeling towards him, and I didn't think any less of him. In fact, I think he's a pretty comfortable person to be around. So basically, people won't think less of you for being more open. When your brain is telling you to hold back, that's due to fear that comes from uncertainty of what will happen. I'm pretty sure that you already know this well enough, but knowing it will not make you more socially comfortable - the only thing that will make you more socially comfortable is through experience.
Just from reading what you wrote so far, you already have a good grasp of social convention. You are definitely not one of those sociopaths that sometimes posts really creepy blogs. There is absolutely no inability on your side that prevents you from building relationships with people. Perhaps you already know you have everything you need, and you wrote this blog just looking for a bit of encouragement, and I think that's all we need to give you. So the next time you find an opportunity to talk comfortably with someone, don't think about it and just do it. As you keep doing it, your logical side won't hold you back anymore.
On September 24 2013 14:33 Chairman Ray wrote: There are probably other ways to forcibly put yourself in social settings, but I think the core issue is that you just haven't been desensitized enough to break the social barrier. There's nothing wrong with talking to people about anything, including your feelings. Nobody will think less of you, and there won't be any repercussions either. I was never really shy, so I don't know what it's like to break from being reserved into being naturally outgoing. However I do have experience with other people.
This is a story that happened just a few weeks ago. True story. Some random guy, really awkward and nervous, comes up to me and asks me for girl advice. He starts telling me about how he's really nervous around people and such. It was hard for me to believe for a second because we're complete strangers and he just starts opening up like that. Plus, I'm probably the last guy in the world to ask for girl advice. I wasn't really able to help him much, so we ended up talking about nerdy things and became sorta friends after that. I personally would not have the balls to go up to some stranger and ask them about girl advice. But what I learned from it was that I had no ill feeling towards him, and I didn't think any less of him. In fact, I think he's a pretty comfortable person to be around. So basically, people won't think less of you for being more open. When your brain is telling you to hold back, that's due to fear that comes from uncertainty of what will happen. I'm pretty sure that you already know this well enough, but knowing it will not make you more socially comfortable - the only thing that will make you more socially comfortable is through experience.
Just from reading what you wrote so far, you already have a good grasp of social convention. You are definitely not one of those sociopaths that sometimes posts really creepy blogs. There is absolutely no inability on your side that prevents you from building relationships with people. Perhaps you already know you have everything you need, and you wrote this blog just looking for a bit of encouragement, and I think that's all we need to give you. So the next time you find an opportunity to talk comfortably with someone, don't think about it and just do it. As you keep doing it, your logical side won't hold you back anymore.
thanks that really meant a lot. It get's kind of hard to recognize which voices to ignore in my head and which ones to listen to so it's really helpful to get a shove in the right direction sometimes
While having lunch a few days ago, I overheard a conversation between two girls talking about horoscopes, and this thread reminds me of that quite a bit.
You cannot rely 100% on a personality test, but it can help give you insight on better understanding what kind of personality you have. ALl the things I mentioned at the beginning of this thread were from different websites about INTP personalities. I didn't take all of them, I just mentioned the ones I thought that contributed most to describing my personality
On September 25 2013 01:42 Daswollvieh wrote: I´m not sure I understand it quite right. Do you want to be able to open up more quickly to people out of an emotional need or a pragmatic reason?
pragmatic reason, it is beneficial towards a more fulfilling lifestyle
On September 25 2013 01:42 Daswollvieh wrote: I´m not sure I understand it quite right. Do you want to be able to open up more quickly to people out of an emotional need or a pragmatic reason?
pragmatic reason, it is beneficial towards a more fulfilling lifestyle
If it´s not an emotional need, how could it be fulfilling. I mean, that´s the whole deal with satisfaction: satisfy a need, if there´s no need, then there´s no satisfaction, but also no problem, to begin with.
On September 25 2013 01:42 Daswollvieh wrote: I´m not sure I understand it quite right. Do you want to be able to open up more quickly to people out of an emotional need or a pragmatic reason?
pragmatic reason, it is beneficial towards a more fulfilling lifestyle
If it´s not an emotional need, how could it be fulfilling. I mean, that´s the whole deal with satisfaction: satisfy a need, if there´s no need, then there´s no satisfaction, but also no problem, to begin with.
I have a need to always reach out and try to achieve a better life for myself. I am intelligent enough to recognize that I have more knowledge than I need to be satisfied with, but not enough emotional interactions to satisfy that need.
edit: Building more trusting relationships so that after 5 years, I don't feel depressed because I have no friends, no social life, and am going nowhere with my life in terms of human connections
On September 25 2013 02:26 ktimekiller wrote: Tip 1 stop trusting bullshit online personality tests because they make you feel special
unfortunately all they do is confirm what I already know about myself to be true so.....it's not really "trusting" but affirming" my beliefs
For everything on the internet that affirms your existing beliefs, there is something that opposes them. But people are extremely likely to only believe whatever affirms their existing beliefs. Even, and I'm not kidding - this was shown in experiments, if they know that the affirming source is invalid.
On September 25 2013 02:52 spinesheath wrote: For everything on the internet that affirms your existing beliefs, there is something that opposes them. But people are extremely likely to only believe whatever affirms their existing beliefs. Even, and I'm not kidding - this was shown in experiments, if they know that the affirming source is invalid.
I am familiar with that concept, I think it's called cognitive bias. Of course this can't be completely avoided, but I use logic in order to prove my beliefs wrong before I use it to affirm them so I can try to most effectively think my way around my bias's
Can't really teach empathy, you just go out and hang out with people. You'll either get it or you won't. Most people aren't interesting, but you're that determined you can hang around them to learn about people.
Perhaps the deeper question is: in your persuit of a perfect existence, what has made you feel you need to change those bits about you and how would they add to your happiness?
On September 24 2013 13:04 Chairman Ray wrote: One thing you can do is invite a bunch of your friends to get some drinks and nachos after work or after school. This is probably the best source of social interaction. When everyone is a little tipsy and has been talking for an hour, people naturally get a lot more open with each other. Even if you don't open up to others, others will open up to you. What this does is create you a circle of people that you will feel a lot more comfortable with, even if you haven't known them a long time. You've already broke the emotional barrier with them, so there's won't be nearly as big a struggle talking to them again. Hopefully you'll be more comfortable with sharing your feelings with these people. Eventually with experience, you become a little more desensitized to social interaction, and you'll be able to do it without needing to think about it.
mmm im below drinking age, so it has to be learned sober ^^
What I've discovered is that if you hang around tipsy people, you kind of feel a bit tipsy yourself even if you're stone-cold sober. A bit odd, but there you go.
I also agree that, if you're unsure about opening up to people, you can definitely form better connections with people if they open up first. That will give you more leeway and comfort in doing the same with them if you so choose.
On September 25 2013 02:26 ktimekiller wrote: Tip 1 stop trusting bullshit online personality tests because they make you feel special
Pretty much this. Personality tests are about as reliable as horoscopes-- at best they will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. And if you think horoscopes are legit, I'll leave you with this:
Personality tests are pretty silly. If you say that you find it hard to express emotions while you're taking the test, like to hug the wall in social situations, say that you're really logical, of course the test thing is going to say that you're bad at showing emotions or can be arrogant. You pretty much already said that, the test is just spitting stuff back out at you. It's good to focus on your flaws to try to make yourself better, but don't focus on them in the context of your personality type. Look at what YOU think your flaws are. I've actually done this, so let me help.
I tested as an INTJ. Those personality type profiles will tell me that I'm arrogant, not very emotional, and pretty introverted. Yes, that's true, because I basically told the test that already. Since your type is similar, maybe you have the same problems. I didn't look at what I was prescribed to be wrong with me to change myself. I said "hm, I'm a bit too shy. I should be more outgoing." and I worked on improving that. It could've just been puberty, but if you make a conscious effort to change you can do it. I think most would agree that the benefits of being extroverted outweigh the benefits of introversion pretty handily. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong about being less emotional tbh. You just have to realize that other people may be more emotional and try to play off their wants and desires, even if you might not feel as strongly. Arrogance/condescension is actually not bad most of the time if you can keep it in check. If you are reasonably social and actually know the shit that you claim to know, it can help you be taken more seriously and be a de facto leader.
@Moonfire There's nothing wrong with wanting to change a part of you. People change all the time. I know people say that to be happy you have to be happy with yourself, but for some of us we need to change ourselves to become a person that we want to be. I didn't want to be this shy, unassertive kid my whole life. I wanted to be able to talk to girls, have more friends, be well-liked.
On September 25 2013 07:02 MoonfireSpam wrote: Can't really teach empathy, you just go out and hang out with people. You'll either get it or you won't. Most people aren't interesting, but you're that determined you can hang around them to learn about people.
Perhaps the deeper question is: in your persuit of a perfect existence, what has made you feel you need to change those bits about you and how would they add to your happiness?
You sound young.
Personality tests are retarded.
Most people are infact, not interesting. But, what's to say that that makes their life inferior to mine that I can't learn something that they might be able to teach me
On September 25 2013 07:37 Chocolate wrote: Personality tests are pretty silly. If you say that you find it hard to express emotions while you're taking the test, like to hug the wall in social situations, say that you're really logical, of course the test thing is going to say that you're bad at showing emotions or can be arrogant. You pretty much already said that, the test is just spitting stuff back out at you. It's good to focus on your flaws to try to make yourself better, but don't focus on them in the context of your personality type. Look at what YOU think your flaws are. I've actually done this, so let me help.
I tested as an INTJ. Those personality type profiles will tell me that I'm arrogant, not very emotional, and pretty introverted. Yes, that's true, because I basically told the test that already. Since your type is similar, maybe you have the same problems. I didn't look at what I was prescribed to be wrong with me to change myself. I said "hm, I'm a bit too shy. I should be more outgoing." and I worked on improving that. It could've just been puberty, but if you make a conscious effort to change you can do it. I think most would agree that the benefits of being extroverted outweigh the benefits of introversion pretty handily. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong about being less emotional tbh. You just have to realize that other people may be more emotional and try to play off their wants and desires, even if you might not feel as strongly. Arrogance/condescension is actually not bad most of the time if you can keep it in check. If you are reasonably social and actually know the shit that you claim to know, it can help you be taken more seriously and be a de facto leader.
@Moonfire There's nothing wrong with wanting to change a part of you. People change all the time. I know people say that to be happy you have to be happy with yourself, but for some of us we need to change ourselves to become a person that we want to be. I didn't want to be this shy, unassertive kid my whole life. I wanted to be able to talk to girls, have more friends, be well-liked.
Well I want to work on my emotional intelligence and emotional awareness of other people. It is a known flaw I have come to recognize over the years.
I have gone through a brief phase of depression, and also have started racking up my own personal hardship experiences. I am not going through a particularly rough time right now, but I am aware enough that life will continue to throw adversities my way until the day I die.
As little emotional intelligence I have, during rough periods it also became a burden becuase I had little to no emotional support available to me. And I felt alone and small and insignificant.
I guess what I would consider to be doing now would be just taking precautions and building a safety net for myself for later
On September 25 2013 02:26 ktimekiller wrote: Tip 1 stop trusting bullshit online personality tests because they make you feel special
Pretty much this. Personality tests are about as reliable as horoscopes-- at best they will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. And if you think horoscopes are legit, I'll leave you with this:
I tested as an INTJ. Those personality type profiles will tell me that I'm arrogant, not very emotional, and pretty introverted. Yes, that's true, because I basically told the test that already.
Actually MBTI is an analytical tool which does a little more than spew back your own personal input. Its principle contribution is to arrange people by the dominance of their cognitive functions.
An INTJ is Ni dominant, Te auxiliary, Fi Tertiary and Se Inferior, which can be worked out in combination to help explain things like how you process information, how you look at new information, how you integrate new experiences with preexisting knowledge, etc. Most helpfully it can help you understand other types, and how they do these things differently from yourself.
Most of the feedback you get from "personality profiles" are pretty superficial: they list the tendencies, but they usually don't go into much analysis of how your functions contribute to those tendencies.
Example: OP lists his strengths as objectivity, honesty, and analytical prowess, and his weaknesses as insensitivity, privacy and arrogance. The irony is that these are stereotypically INTJ traits as well as INTP traits, yet an INTP shares no functions in common with an INTJ (INTPs are Ti Ne Si Fe.) INTPs may be fellow truth-seekers and objective analysts of the world, but they do it in a completely different manner.
Example:
INTP personalities are usually proud of their extensive knowledge and reasoning abilities, but they may get easily frustrated trying to describe their thoughts other people.
This is a fundamental trait of INTP's dominant Ti (introverted thinking.) INTPs are dominant subjective logicians and introspective reasoners. They think silently, and their thought processing and verbal expression are far more disjointed than an INTJ, who has extroverted thinking. This is why you will see an INTPs being generally slower with expressing their arguments, while they interject "ums" and "uhhs" far more frequently in their verbal output.
Another example:
INTJs make far faster "truth judgements" with their dominant Introverted Intuition, whereas their auxiliary extroverted thinking is frequently used as a marketing department for their intuition: it has to figure out the best logical explaination to express a preconceived truth. INTPs search for "truth possibilities" with their auxiliary Ne, and sends hundreds of hypotheses upstairs where they will face scrutiny by Ti (checking for internal contradictions, synergy with the archive of facts and experiences stored by the tertiary Si,) and assigning each truth possibility a probability score which will rarely ever attain 0 or 100.
Any help/advice on being more emotionally aware of both my feelings and the feelings of people around me, being more open to people (wearing my heart on my sleeve kind of thing), and being able to communicate all the above better so that I don't come off as condescending is what I am really looking for here
An INTP is never going to be comfortable wearing his heart on his sleeve, unless it's an inauthentic heart conjured up by his Ne. The essence of INTPs is that they may feel frequently ignored, misunderstood, unappreciated and are generally subjected to suffering for who they are, but they would not be willing to give up who they are to fix all that. Once an INTP realises the compromises he would be forced to make to his personal integrity to purchase the appearance of being more "normal", he usually quickly abandons any such ambition.
None of these critiques understands the MBTI very well. The most common misconception about the MBTI is that it splits up cognitive preferences by diachotomies (introversion vs extroversion, thinking vs feeling), but what MBTI actually says is that everyone is introverted and extroverted, rational as well as emotional. Being based on Jungian theory, its main precept concerns the admittedly Germanic obsession with the revealed and the hidden, the expressed and the suppressed, the visible and the invisible faces of the human psyche.
I actually don't understand this auxilary dominant stuff MoltkWarding. How do you do it? is it much work to be able to understand all that? I've read an essay by Jung where he talks about how the most exaggerate of each type will be and explains why.
@OP You didn't even say anything you don't like about being INTP. I know two INTP's and I am an INFP. Both these guys seemed quite unable to let any ideas in that conflicted with a previous idea of themselves. I guess that is a common human characteristic though. Might be true for me.
On September 25 2013 19:33 MoltkeWarding wrote: INTJs make far faster "truth judgements" with their dominant Introverted Intuition, whereas their auxiliary extroverted thinking is frequently used as a marketing department for their intuition: it has to figure out the best logical explaination to express a preconceived truth. INTPs search for "truth possibilities" with their auxiliary Ne, and sends hundreds of hypotheses upstairs where they will face scrutiny by Ti (checking for internal contradictions, synergy with the archive of facts and experiences stored by the tertiary Si,) and assigning each truth possibility a probability score which will rarely ever attain 0 or 100.
Any help/advice on being more emotionally aware of both my feelings and the feelings of people around me, being more open to people (wearing my heart on my sleeve kind of thing), and being able to communicate all the above better so that I don't come off as condescending is what I am really looking for here
An INTP is never going to be comfortable wearing his heart on his sleeve, unless it's an inauthentic heart conjured up by his Ne. The essence of INTPs is that they may feel frequently ignored, misunderstood, unappreciated and are generally subjected to suffering for who they are, but they would not be willing to give up who they are to fix all that. Once an INTP realises the compromises he would be forced to make to his personal integrity to purchase the appearance of being more "normal", he usually quickly abandons any such ambition.
I guess what I meant by that was to basically show some more of an extraverted side rather than such a strong introverted side. Granted I still would consider myself an introvert, just not so much dominated by introverted thinking but embracing extroverted thinking as well
On September 25 2013 21:56 Japhybaby wrote: I actually don't understand this auxilary dominant stuff MoltkWarding. How do you do it? is it much work to be able to understand all that? I've read an essay by Jung where he talks about how the most exaggerate of each type will be and explains why.
@OP You didn't even say anything you don't like about being INTP. I know two INTP's and I am an INFP. Both these guys seemed quite unable to let any ideas in that conflicted with a previous idea of themselves. I guess that is a common human characteristic though. Might be true for me.
I am open minded to change just as long as I find it beneficial to me. The key is convincing myself that it is
On September 25 2013 21:56 Japhybaby wrote: I actually don't understand this auxilary dominant stuff MoltkWarding. How do you do it? is it much work to be able to understand all that? I've read an essay by Jung where he talks about how the most exaggerate of each type will be and explains why.
@OP You didn't even say anything you don't like about being INTP. I know two INTP's and I am an INFP. Both these guys seemed quite unable to let any ideas in that conflicted with a previous idea of themselves. I guess that is a common human characteristic though. Might be true for me.
Nope, it's pretty simple. To begin with, MBTI deals with two questions: How do we perceive things? How do we judge things? These are broken down into the perceiving functions (sensing vs intuition) and the judging functions (thinking vs feeling) These are in turn modified by the questions: do we do these things via introversion or extroversion? MBTI assumes that an extroverted preference in one of the functions is compensated by an introverted preference in the opposing. For instance, an introverted thinker will be an extroverted feeler, introverted intuition is paired with extroverted sensing. Then the J vs P diachotomy basically modifies the pairings, hence the J in INTJ means that introversion is paired with the perceiving function, whereas the P in INTP means that introversion is paired with the judging function.
Then the breakdown of the four active functions: dominant, auxiliary, tertiary and inferior basically assigns the other in which we use these functions by preference/habit. This is not a mind-reading test. An introverted thinker like an INTP can behave like an extroverted thinker, if he requires it for school or a job (especially if he learns to imitate an extroverted thinker,) but this will not be the behaviour most natural to him. When left alone, in his basement, he would rather sit on the couch, stare off into space, and work on various mental problems like a zombie. Basically the dominant function asks: what are you doing in your zombie-state? The INTP with Ti will basically say: I think to myself, whereas an INFP with Fi will say: I am sorting through my feelings, or an ESFP with Se will say: I am looking at pretty stuff and flashy lights.
As we grow older and become better-rounded people, we increasingly develop our lesser functions. A more mature INTP will become better at things like empathy and showing how he feels, because of his inferior extroverted feeling, although an INTP will never have the same facility or naturalness with that as compared to a dominant Fe. Similarly, an Fe dominant/Ti inferior person like an ESFJ will learn better how to look at things via introspective logic, but they will only use it on a few occasions and with considerably less dexterity.
More likely is the scenario where the ESFJ will complain to the INTP about how unfair her friends are being, INTP will try to look for reasons as to why that might be, the ESFJ will be angry because they want emotional support and not a critical analysis, and starts complaining about the INTP, the INTP will be taken aback by this and retreat deeper into his Ti to look for the answer there, and what you get is two people talking past each other. Studying MBTI can help you with such problems
About the function order: Every one of the sixteen MBTI types has a list of cognitive functions:
INTJ - Ni Te Fi Se INTP - Ti Ne Si Fe INFJ - Ni Fe Ti Se INFP - Fi Ne Si Te ISTJ - Si Te Fi Ne ISTP - Ti Se Ni Fe ISFJ - Si Fe Ti Ne ISFP - Fi Se Ni Te ENTJ - Te Ni Se Fi ENTP - Ne Ti Fe Si ENFJ - Fe Ni Se Ti ENFP - Ne Fi Te Si ESTJ - Te Si Ne Fi ESTP - Se Ti Fe Ni ESFJ - Fe Si Ne Ti ESFP - Se Fi Te Ni
I guess what I meant by that was to basically show some more of an extraverted side rather than such a strong introverted side. Granted I still would consider myself an introvert, just not so much dominated by introverted thinking but embracing extroverted thinking as well
Like I said, if you want to learn extroverted thinking, learn from those who are best at it: ENTJs and INTJs (I think the latter constitutes nearly half of this forum.) You can also try to look at ESTJs or ISTJs but ordinarily those guys will tend to think INTPs are sloppy, lazy, weird and anarchic, whereas INTPs will tend to think of them as loud, stupid bullies
However, Te is for an INTP what is considered a shadow function, and you try to develop them at your own risk. INTPs have like everyone two extroverted functions: Extroverted intuition, and extroverted feeling. Extroverted intuition is auxiliary, so at a certain point in life this is your main information-gathering function. Through this function, INTPs can become very experimental with life, constantly trying to learn new things, and occasionally even doing new and reckless things. However, the INTP will necessarily be subdued by the dominant Ti (the party pooper function) which basically analyses everything to death and stops you from trying out that new, interesting idea you've been wanting to try. If you want to learn how to put the experimental Ne before the cautious, analytical Ti, learn from ENTPs (Ne Ti Se Ni) who are a lot more outgoing and take a lot more risks.
When you let your Ne out, you may be alternatively seen as weird or witty. It generates plenty of humour potential, and is usually a hit with other intuitive types. The trouble with Ne is that it could get you into trouble, since it's pretty anarchic, and coupled with your low levels of empathy, can confuse and offend other people. This is why INTPs (IMO) have trouble making friends among anyone other than N-types (supposedly only 20-25% of the population.) The INTP's dominant social function is one where they love to break/ignore social conventions and it tempts them to say stuff just to get reactions out of other people. The difference between the INTP and ENTP is that the INTP will map out the consequences of his actions before he commits them, sometimes ad nauseum so that he never gets around to committing the action at all. The ENTP will do something first, and think about it later.
P.S. Ever been in a situation where someone has told you to stop thinking about something and just do it? As hard as that is for an INTP, it seems to be the thing you are striving for.
On September 24 2013 14:33 Chairman Ray wrote: There are probably other ways to forcibly put yourself in social settings, but I think the core issue is that you just haven't been desensitized enough to break the social barrier. There's nothing wrong with talking to people about anything, including your feelings. Nobody will think less of you, and there won't be any repercussions either. I was never really shy, so I don't know what it's like to break from being reserved into being naturally outgoing. However I do have experience with other people.
This is a story that happened just a few weeks ago. True story. Some random guy, really awkward and nervous, comes up to me and asks me for girl advice. He starts telling me about how he's really nervous around people and such. It was hard for me to believe for a second because we're complete strangers and he just starts opening up like that. Plus, I'm probably the last guy in the world to ask for girl advice. I wasn't really able to help him much, so we ended up talking about nerdy things and became sorta friends after that. I personally would not have the balls to go up to some stranger and ask them about girl advice. But what I learned from it was that I had no ill feeling towards him, and I didn't think any less of him. In fact, I think he's a pretty comfortable person to be around. So basically, people won't think less of you for being more open. When your brain is telling you to hold back, that's due to fear that comes from uncertainty of what will happen. I'm pretty sure that you already know this well enough, but knowing it will not make you more socially comfortable - the only thing that will make you more socially comfortable is through experience.
Just from reading what you wrote so far, you already have a good grasp of social convention. You are definitely not one of those sociopaths that sometimes posts really creepy blogs. There is absolutely no inability on your side that prevents you from building relationships with people. Perhaps you already know you have everything you need, and you wrote this blog just looking for a bit of encouragement, and I think that's all we need to give you. So the next time you find an opportunity to talk comfortably with someone, don't think about it and just do it. As you keep doing it, your logical side won't hold you back anymore.
On September 25 2013 07:02 MoonfireSpam wrote: Can't really teach empathy, you just go out and hang out with people. You'll either get it or you won't. Most people aren't interesting, but you're that determined you can hang around them to learn about people.
Perhaps the deeper question is: in your persuit of a perfect existence, what has made you feel you need to change those bits about you and how would they add to your happiness?
You sound young.
Personality tests are retarded.
Most people are infact, not interesting. But, what's to say that that makes their life inferior to mine that I can't learn something that they might be able to teach me
Nothing says they are inferior, but you sure as hell won't learn anything from not mixing with em. My point really is, you can find people you find interesting, which makes the process easier, or you can mix with people you don't with makes it harder. Either way, want to see what people could potentially offer you? Then pull your finger out of your arse, stop hiding behind "thinking about it" and just get out and meet people.
I'm guessing you may be in university (college for you US guys and gals?) or college (uh high school for you Muricans?) just based on averages and the gaming demographic. Now I don't know what your system is like, but here in the UK there are a billion different societies and clubs to join and take part in which will force social learning (if you really want to). So next week, pick one and join it.
From my own experience nothing gets you more disinhibited than joining a Dance class.
On September 25 2013 21:56 Japhybaby wrote: I actually don't understand this auxilary dominant stuff MoltkWarding. How do you do it? is it much work to be able to understand all that? I've read an essay by Jung where he talks about how the most exaggerate of each type will be and explains why.
@OP You didn't even say anything you don't like about being INTP. I know two INTP's and I am an INFP. Both these guys seemed quite unable to let any ideas in that conflicted with a previous idea of themselves. I guess that is a common human characteristic though. Might be true for me.
Nope, it's pretty simple. To begin with, MBTI deals with two questions: How do we perceive things? How do we judge things? These are broken down into the perceiving functions (sensing vs intuition) and the judging functions (thinking vs feeling) These are in turn modified by the questions: do we do these things via introversion or extroversion? MBTI assumes that an extroverted preference in one of the functions is compensated by an introverted preference in the opposing. For instance, an introverted thinker will be an extroverted feeler, introverted intuition is paired with extroverted sensing. Then the J vs P diachotomy basically modifies the pairings, hence the J in INTJ means that introversion is paired with the perceiving function, whereas the P in INTP means that introversion is paired with the judging function.
Then the breakdown of the four active functions: dominant, auxiliary, tertiary and inferior basically assigns the other in which we use these functions by preference/habit. This is not a mind-reading test. An introverted thinker like an INTP can behave like an extroverted thinker, if he requires it for school or a job (especially if he learns to imitate an extroverted thinker,) but this will not be the behaviour most natural to him. When left alone, in his basement, he would rather sit on the couch, stare off into space, and work on various mental problems like a zombie. Basically the dominant function asks: what are you doing in your zombie-state? The INTP with Ti will basically say: I think to myself, whereas an INFP with Fi will say: I am sorting through my feelings, or an ESFP with Se will say: I am looking at pretty stuff and flashy lights.
As we grow older and become better-rounded people, we increasingly develop our lesser functions. A more mature INTP will become better at things like empathy and showing how he feels, because of his inferior extroverted feeling, although an INTP will never have the same facility or naturalness with that as compared to a dominant Fe. Similarly, an Fe dominant/Ti inferior person like an ESFJ will learn better how to look at things via introspective logic, but they will only use it on a few occasions and with considerably less dexterity.
More likely is the scenario where the ESFJ will complain to the INTP about how unfair her friends are being, INTP will try to look for reasons as to why that might be, the ESFJ will be angry because they want emotional support and not a critical analysis, and starts complaining about the INTP, the INTP will be taken aback by this and retreat deeper into his Ti to look for the answer there, and what you get is two people talking past each other. Studying MBTI can help you with such problems
About the function order: Every one of the sixteen MBTI types has a list of cognitive functions:
INTJ - Ni Te Fi Se INTP - Ti Ne Si Fe INFJ - Ni Fe Ti Se INFP - Fi Ne Si Te ISTJ - Si Te Fi Ne ISTP - Ti Se Ni Fe ISFJ - Si Fe Ti Ne ISFP - Fi Se Ni Te ENTJ - Te Ni Se Fi ENTP - Ne Ti Fe Si ENFJ - Fe Ni Se Ti ENFP - Ne Fi Te Si ESTJ - Te Si Ne Fi ESTP - Se Ti Fe Ni ESFJ - Fe Si Ne Ti ESFP - Se Fi Te Ni
I guess what I meant by that was to basically show some more of an extraverted side rather than such a strong introverted side. Granted I still would consider myself an introvert, just not so much dominated by introverted thinking but embracing extroverted thinking as well
Like I said, if you want to learn extroverted thinking, learn from those who are best at it: ENTJs and INTJs (I think the latter constitutes nearly half of this forum.) You can also try to look at ESTJs or ISTJs but ordinarily those guys will tend to think INTPs are sloppy, lazy, weird and anarchic, whereas INTPs will tend to think of them as loud, stupid bullies
However, Te is for an INTP what is considered a shadow function, and you try to develop them at your own risk. INTPs have like everyone two extroverted functions: Extroverted intuition, and extroverted feeling. Extroverted intuition is auxiliary, so at a certain point in life this is your main information-gathering function. Through this function, INTPs can become very experimental with life, constantly trying to learn new things, and occasionally even doing new and reckless things. However, the INTP will necessarily be subdued by the dominant Ti (the party pooper function) which basically analyses everything to death and stops you from trying out that new, interesting idea you've been wanting to try. If you want to learn how to put the experimental Ne before the cautious, analytical Ti, learn from ENTPs (Ne Ti Se Ni) who are a lot more outgoing and take a lot more risks.
When you let your Ne out, you may be alternatively seen as weird or witty. It generates plenty of humour potential, and is usually a hit with other intuitive types. The trouble with Ne is that it could get you into trouble, since it's pretty anarchic, and coupled with your low levels of empathy, can confuse and offend other people. This is why INTPs (IMO) have trouble making friends among anyone other than N-types (supposedly only 20-25% of the population.) The INTP's dominant social function is one where they love to break/ignore social conventions and it tempts them to say stuff just to get reactions out of other people. The difference between the INTP and ENTP is that the INTP will map out the consequences of his actions before he commits them, sometimes ad nauseum so that he never gets around to committing the action at all. The ENTP will do something first, and think about it later.
P.S. Ever been in a situation where someone has told you to stop thinking about something and just do it? As hard as that is for an INTP, it seems to be the thing you are striving for.
That makes very little sense to me to be honest. An INFP does thinking extraverted because her dominant function is introverted feeling, so the opposite compensates. good. An INFP does extraverted sensing because her intuition is also introverted? THe last letter makes no sense. That's where i'm confused.
On September 28 2013 01:48 MoltkeWarding wrote: INFPs have extroverted intuition auxiliary/introverted sensing tertiary, not the other way around.
where do you get that? its from the last letter? OHH this makes sense yes so the P shows that the INFP prefers the perceiving function (the Sensing vs intuition category) as opposed to the judging category (thinking vs feeling). That's how it works then ok..
Hm this is not quite true.. it is more complex/complicated. A true grasp would require a fair bit of reading in my opinion. thanks for your help! greatly appreciated <3
EPT
