• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:27
CET 11:27
KST 19:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)11Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns6[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3
StarCraft 2
General
Spontaneous hotkey change zerg Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026 OSC Season 13 World Championship
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? I would like to say something about StarCraft BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1460 users

Phalanx's Daily #79: Zealot/Archon/Immo

Blogs > Sir.Phalanx
Post a Reply
Sir.Phalanx
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Japan195 Posts
August 19 2013 12:08 GMT
#1
Hey guys, how's it going. Yet another daily by yours truely Phalanx, since he's got nothing better to do than to try to get better at SC2! Actually I have some other stuff that I probably should be doing instead, but I'm procrastinating! Yay!

Now in today's daily I want to look at PvP... specifically playing with a mid game composition of zealot/archon/immortal. It seems like this is all the rage in PvP, after going for a fast expansion. I wonder if this unit composition is usually stronger than trying to get out colossi... it most definitely gets out onto the field faster than colossi, just because of the time/resources to tech to it, and it might be more powerful early on. I'm starting to wonder if I should ever bother getting colossi in PvP, and instead always go tempests... then again that AoE is pretty good.
In the following game I basically lose to pure zealot-archon... there were a ton of mistakes that lead up to the loss, but it does show how strong archons can be since they come out faster than colossi.

Characters
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
Johnson, the lovable 1-st scouting probe! Dream profession is Aiur Head Chef.

[image loading]
Mike the stalker. Hardest working of them all, and single-handedly preventing scouting and pressure, while receiving the least credit.

[image loading]
Emily, the mothership core. Has a secret love for education, but quickly gets out of hand and fires photons all over the place if pissed off.

[image loading]
Snowden, the sneaky observer, watching out for the protoss race. He checks your computer history too.

[image loading]
Clyde, the zealot. Often times forgotten about due to cutting corners in the early game, and is always brought around in clutch situations.


replay : http://drop.sc/354771

The Game
+ Show Spoiler +

Not really enough interesting stuff in the early game, so I'm just going to go ahead and skip over that stuff for today.

The match up is PvP, the map is Neo Planet S. Both of us basically leave each other alone and mind our own business for a long time.

at about 11:40 I move out with 3 sentries/zealots/immortals/archons, as well as a warp prism on the side for a attack into the mineral line at the same time. I was extremely sloppy in this attack, letting him see me move out, and he got a few zealots up to my constructing 3rd base to deal some damage once I started attacking.

[image loading]
Actually now that I think of it I always have exactly 3/3/3/3 of the units... hehe, I gotta make this a thing.

My enemy actually did pretty well with this multipronged zealot harrass that hit me while i was trying to attack... I lost at leat 10 zealots, not to mention my actual 3rd base. That was a pretty hard hit to my future economy.

[image loading]
Ok maybe this was really the reason why I lost rather than unit comp. I'm going to contemplate the unit composition none the less!

As for my attack, it was .... Ehhhh, at best. it killed a couple of probes, but that was it. The attack hit a bit later than I would have wanted to hit, and to add on to that I didn't actually have the production to support my income (before the lack-there-of income).

[image loading]
...meh.

Well this turns out as yet another daily where I write something before I actually write the battle report, and then it turns out that watching the replay basically answers all of my questions. I guess it's good that I can tell my own mistakes, ya know. If I hadn't lost my 3rd base this early, I'm sure that I would have been able to get out my colossi en-mass in time to defeat his super zealot heavy army.

Anyways, on with what happened... I try to continue harassment with my warp prism, but it's success is extremely limited.

[image loading]
Extremely limited now is a synonym with "not at all".

Aaaand then my enemy builds up an army and wins.

My zealot count during the fight was about 8-10 less than it could have been because I was favoring massing up more archons and colossi, disliking getting excess army supply in zealots. If I had actually kept vision on his army, I should have been able to tell that he was going to attack, in which case i could have made a bit more of a meat shield. I was behind on upgrades (+3 vs +1) but since I had colossi, a good fight with better macro might have been able to win me the game.

[image loading]
Also looks like I had m-moved my army for a few seconds there, allowing his zealots to engage my archons...

Sigh, now that I look back at this game it has very little to do with unit composition (in fact mine was probably better) but I was simply out macro'ed and made a small micro mistake as well.

HOWEVER, since I had mentioned it, I feel like I want to talk about the zealot/archon/immortal composition, favoring a faster attack and archons over getting out colossi. Of course getting colossi isn't the only way to play PvP, especially now that tempests exist, but it seems that getting colossi has become very popular again in PvP (at least at my level).

I imagine that getting out immortals is stronger than colossi until the colossi actually out in sufficient numbers. You can get a whole lot more immortals out than your enemy if you focus on that instead of colossus production, and I think that since archons can be built a few at a time, more AoE can be created against zealots. I suppose that this could make for more powerful pre-maxed attacks.

I don't have too much more info to go off of than this, anyone who reads these have any input on that composition in PvP? Is it only good up to a certain point/against specific builds? Is it pretty standard even at higher levels of play to favor immortals/archons over colossus?


Yet another daily that went off mark mid-replay . But at least it means I'm learning. I hope you enjoyed if you read through it, although I know it's shorter than usual. GL HF!

P.S.
Phalanx now streams! Subscribe to check it out when I stream, although the times that i do so may be really weird!
http://twitch.tv/sirphalanx

P.P.S.
Check out the website for my current clan as well as my previous clan! Not much to see yet, but with some support more action might get going ;D
http://nacgaming.net http://facebook.com/nacgaming
http://facebook.com/darkonyxftw

P.P.P.S.
Mohr cute Corgi-age.

Go to school - Laddder - Sleep - repeat. Who needs a social life anyways.
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
August 19 2013 14:32 GMT
#2
The reason Zealot/Immortal/Archon is favored over Colossi is this.

Zealot/Immortal/Archon/Colossus beats Zealot/Immortal/Archon. But it loses to Zealot/Immortal/Archon/Tempest. So if I see you going for Colossi, I can counter with Tempests. So either you hit a 2-base Colossus timing before I get to 5 Tempests (I.e, one-shot Colossus level) or I'm going to win with my Zealot/Immortal/Archon/Tempest composition.

And that's why people don't go for Colossi in PvP as much anymore. So if your opponent wants to go for a Colossus-based compositon, tech to Tempests, make 5 of them, and kill all his Colossi before he can really engage, and then you've won.
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
Sir.Phalanx
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Japan195 Posts
August 19 2013 22:36 GMT
#3
Ahh, that makes sense... I always feel scared to tech (or get ready to tech to) tempests in PvP when my enemey starts off with phoenixes, but sometimes they end up going for colossi in the late game too.
Go to school - Laddder - Sleep - repeat. Who needs a social life anyways.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
09:00
WardiTV Mondays #68
CranKy Ducklings152
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2535
Hyuk 1676
Horang2 1179
Larva 499
BeSt 357
actioN 354
EffOrt 144
Zeus 138
Light 123
Barracks 115
[ Show more ]
Mini 107
Leta 106
sorry 94
Killer 79
ggaemo 74
Rush 69
Pusan 65
ZerO 56
Mind 53
Sharp 52
Mong 51
Aegong 46
910 29
Free 25
JulyZerg 21
Sacsri 20
Yoon 18
Movie 17
soO 16
Noble 16
zelot 10
Dota 2
ODPixel462
NeuroSwarm101
canceldota48
League of Legends
JimRising 528
C9.Mang0347
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss762
allub325
Other Games
ceh9491
Pyrionflax236
Livibee72
ZerO(Twitch)6
crisheroes0
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick4549
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH182
• LUISG 27
• StrangeGG 23
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 12
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt793
• HappyZerGling148
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
3h 33m
Monday Night Weeklies
6h 33m
WardiTV Invitational
1d 1h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
3 days
OSC
4 days
All Star Teams
4 days
INnoVation vs soO
sOs vs Scarlett
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
All Star Teams
5 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
OSC
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-11
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.