• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:37
CEST 16:37
KST 23:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners6Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)8[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th156Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0
StarCraft 2
General
High level ptr replays? where can I find them? StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June The Korean Terminology Thread
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Does Workplace Frustration D…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8637 users

Phalanx's Daily #78: Early Pool

Blogs > Sir.Phalanx
Post a Reply
Sir.Phalanx
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Japan195 Posts
August 18 2013 10:44 GMT
#1
Hey guys! Wazzup. I'm still feeling really good about the ladder right now, been getting WAY more wins than losses, even beat 2 masters in a row (i was really glad to see my PvZ strat work against the masters player). For today's daily I'm going to try to see if I can resolve how to change my build up against an early pool, because I lost to a fairly small amount of lings and felt pretty helpless throughout.

First, the game in question.

replay : http://drop.sc/354656

Long story short, the guy went for a 13 pool and just overran my first gateway at the wall before my sentry could pop out. Looking back on it the positioning of my gateway was terrible (so much surface area) but even if I had gotten out that sentry my gateway probably would have died. It got me thinking on how I need to deviate my opening to make sure that stuff doesn't happen...

[image loading]
It could just come down to bad gateway positioning, but i gotta be sure.

The biggest problem that I could see from the outcome of those early lings is that I just can't get a sentry out in time for a pool that is so early (13) if they make about 6 lings. In my case my enemy was commiting more than a normal zerg by making 3 pairs right off the bat, but it is none the less important for me to see if there's any way of stopping said lings.

By the way I'm sure there are many people already out there who have perfectly figured out how to execute gateway first against zergs, but I want to make sure I get it figured out myself <3. Also mine's a bit different because I gof or a walloff with the gateways.

First off, 13 pool - pool went down around 1:50, lings came out at about 3:20. The lings actually reached my base around 4:00~4:10. I varied my build very slightly by getting 16 nexus/cyber and chronoboosting out the zealot, as opposed to 17 nexus followed by zealot after the 2nd pylon was built.

Now, if I were to have used the normal way I go and have made my 17th probe, my first zealot would have only just started building when the zerglings hit - a fair enough move for me to have made to save supply.

[image loading]
trial and err.

Now if I had gone for cyber-zealot-pylon-nexus-sentry... the sentry would have been done about 15-20 seconds earlier than the game I played. This may be the right response, but if the enemy doesn't commit heavily to zerglings it seems like my nexus and 2nd gas is delayed oh so much. I don't know for sure if anything before 15 pool is always aggressive or not, but since on small maps I don't have the luxury of being risky, I'd suppose delaying my nexus is better than losing the game.

making the gateway first at the wall is pretty hard to hold against any early pressure, even very small pressure. Until my first sentry is out I basically have to watch what ever structure is in front get beat up by lings. It allows for my greedy build, but it's pretty hard...

Don't know if I'm going to even bother going in depth to look in to 6-10 pool responses since I'd just shit my pants and try to defend hard rather than expanding anyways. The mentatily that I have that I NEED TO EXPAND FAST might be what makes the early pools hard to hold with the gateway wall off too.

Well I didn't learn much but I did learn that when the enemy gets a pool I should actually delay my expo more. Also I think that i'll start assuming 13 pools are agressive.

Cheers!

P.S. I'm sad that the last day before ladder lock and I'm going to be busy, probably can't ladder up enough

***
Go to school - Laddder - Sleep - repeat. Who needs a social life anyways.
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-18 15:19:30
August 18 2013 15:17 GMT
#2
--- Nuked ---
Aveng3r
Profile Joined February 2012
United States2411 Posts
August 18 2013 15:33 GMT
#3
Did you micro with your zealot at all? I understand its a bit delicate because you dont want to let a surround happen or let any lings into your base. But in a game where you only needed a few more seconds to get your sentry out, couldnt a little micro (plus a re positioned gateway, like you said) have bought you the time you needed?
I carve marble busts of assassinated world leaders - PM for a quote
Sir.Phalanx
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Japan195 Posts
August 19 2013 01:22 GMT
#4
@Aveng3r yeah I probably should have done that, maybe even let a few lings in and just give up the gateway in order to buy some time...

@Sated I don't do that because I want a faster natural. I play it really greedy.
Go to school - Laddder - Sleep - repeat. Who needs a social life anyways.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-19 02:55:19
August 19 2013 02:54 GMT
#5
To be honest, I'm not quite sure why you're doing this opening on a map like Neo Planet S where an in-base gateway would be safer OR a FFE would be completely viable. It just doesn't make a ton of sense.

That being said, probably the best way you can make this work is proper positioning (place your pylon in the nook, leave a space in between the gateway and cyber core) and good decision making/unit control (micro the zealot around, pull probes if necessary). For early pools, you're in a pretty sweet spot if you can preserve the natural wall and not lose all of your probes. If you lose the wall (and the pylon + gateway), you're pretty much screwed beyond all reason and belief.

Also, 2 zealots + MsC > 1 zealot/1 sentry. Chronoboost out a second zealot, not a sentry. You can then add a stalker and pressure while expanding. 2 zealots/1 stalker/MsC can kill an absurd amount of lings with good micro (I seriously mean like 20).
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 24m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Serral 1723
SHIN 124
Vindicta 36
LamboSC2 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 61598
firebathero 5472
Calm 4796
Sea 1861
Shuttle 878
EffOrt 828
Light 586
Mini 537
actioN 196
ggaemo 192
[ Show more ]
Nal_rA 171
Hyun 122
Last 106
hero 105
Pusan 92
JYJ 59
HiyA 34
910 33
Sharp 32
ToSsGirL 30
Killer 23
sorry 20
zelot 19
Sacsri 19
GoRush 19
Shine 12
IntoTheRainbow 12
Movie 11
Noble 6
Rock 3
Dota 2
qojqva3115
Counter-Strike
fl0m8151
kRYSTAL_41
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King115
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor340
Other Games
gofns32675
tarik_tv7596
singsing2638
B2W.Neo464
crisheroes349
DeMusliM181
Fuzer 117
KnowMe92
ArmadaUGS73
QueenE41
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV778
BasetradeTV155
StarCraft 2
angryscii 38
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 8
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV 0
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH108
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota230
League of Legends
• Nemesis5026
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
24m
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
4h 24m
Jaystar vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs TerrOr
XuanXuan vs Bonyth
Mihu vs Dewalt
Messiah vs Jaystar
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
TerrOr vs Dewalt
Wardi Open
20h 24m
OSC
1d 9h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
OSC
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - GSB
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.