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On June 22 2013 03:59 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 17:33 datcirclejerk wrote:On June 20 2013 23:45 HardlyNever wrote:
My general impression is that terran is usually the "most hated" and that zerg is the "whiniest." Most of this is from early WoL release, where terran was overpowered and zerg was underpowered, and it just sort of cemented in the community from there (or at least in my mind).
I don't think there is a lot of truth in it, though. This guy gets it right. Zerg whine used to be justified, and now it's just stuck in the communities' memory. You guys don't see a huge amount of irony in this? Zerg was never as underpowered as they claimed to be. Many buffs and nerfs later, it turns out they weren't by far the worst, but by far the best.
There were MANY buffs and nerfs in favor of Zerg. Patch after patch. They were as underpowered as they claimed, and Blizzard knew it. It wasn't until infestors finally became worth making that Zerg overcame Terran.
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On June 21 2013 02:02 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 23:45 HardlyNever wrote:
My general impression is that terran is usually the "most hated" and that zerg is the "whiniest." Most of this is from early WoL release, where terran was overpowered and zerg was underpowered, and it just sort of cemented in the community from there (or at least in my mind).
I don't think there is a lot of truth in it, though. Wait, when was this?
2010. Queens had like 2 range, rax could be built before supply depot, reapers didn't need factory for nitro packs, roaches had 3 range, snipes did 45 damage with no modifiers.
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On June 22 2013 04:04 datcirclejerk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 03:59 Jerubaal wrote:On June 21 2013 17:33 datcirclejerk wrote:On June 20 2013 23:45 HardlyNever wrote:
My general impression is that terran is usually the "most hated" and that zerg is the "whiniest." Most of this is from early WoL release, where terran was overpowered and zerg was underpowered, and it just sort of cemented in the community from there (or at least in my mind).
I don't think there is a lot of truth in it, though. This guy gets it right. Zerg whine used to be justified, and now it's just stuck in the communities' memory. You guys don't see a huge amount of irony in this? Zerg was never as underpowered as they claimed to be. Many buffs and nerfs later, it turns out they weren't by far the worst, but by far the best. There were MANY buffs and nerfs in favor of Zerg. Patch after patch. They were as underpowered as they claimed, and Blizzard knew it. It wasn't until infestors finally became worth making that Zerg overcame Terran.
Infestors were never buffed though. The buff that changed the way zerg played was queen to range 5. Once they got that, people started abusing how good queens were early game and the lack of early game options for T to punish Z and started getting to the late game with unbelievable leads.
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On June 22 2013 04:06 Ecstatic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 04:04 datcirclejerk wrote:On June 22 2013 03:59 Jerubaal wrote:On June 21 2013 17:33 datcirclejerk wrote:On June 20 2013 23:45 HardlyNever wrote:
My general impression is that terran is usually the "most hated" and that zerg is the "whiniest." Most of this is from early WoL release, where terran was overpowered and zerg was underpowered, and it just sort of cemented in the community from there (or at least in my mind).
I don't think there is a lot of truth in it, though. This guy gets it right. Zerg whine used to be justified, and now it's just stuck in the communities' memory. You guys don't see a huge amount of irony in this? Zerg was never as underpowered as they claimed to be. Many buffs and nerfs later, it turns out they weren't by far the worst, but by far the best. There were MANY buffs and nerfs in favor of Zerg. Patch after patch. They were as underpowered as they claimed, and Blizzard knew it. It wasn't until infestors finally became worth making that Zerg overcame Terran. Infestors were never buffed though. The buff that changed the way zerg played was queen to range 5. Once they got that, people started abusing how good queens were early game and the lack of early game options for T to punish Z and started getting to the late game with unbelievable leads.
Ok, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. That's ok.
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I don't think it's productive to try to argue about every stage of the game, but ask yourself this: Is it more likely that zerg was underpowered and just lucked its way to more GSL wins in the period when it was "underpowered" than Protoss collected during the entirety of WoL, or that people's perception about the strength of zerg was wrong?
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So technically we are all whining about whiners at the moment?
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voted terran. terrans whining about hellbats in tvt always cracks me up
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On June 22 2013 04:21 datcirclejerk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 04:06 Ecstatic wrote:On June 22 2013 04:04 datcirclejerk wrote:On June 22 2013 03:59 Jerubaal wrote:On June 21 2013 17:33 datcirclejerk wrote:On June 20 2013 23:45 HardlyNever wrote:
My general impression is that terran is usually the "most hated" and that zerg is the "whiniest." Most of this is from early WoL release, where terran was overpowered and zerg was underpowered, and it just sort of cemented in the community from there (or at least in my mind).
I don't think there is a lot of truth in it, though. This guy gets it right. Zerg whine used to be justified, and now it's just stuck in the communities' memory. You guys don't see a huge amount of irony in this? Zerg was never as underpowered as they claimed to be. Many buffs and nerfs later, it turns out they weren't by far the worst, but by far the best. There were MANY buffs and nerfs in favor of Zerg. Patch after patch. They were as underpowered as they claimed, and Blizzard knew it. It wasn't until infestors finally became worth making that Zerg overcame Terran. Infestors were never buffed though. The buff that changed the way zerg played was queen to range 5. Once they got that, people started abusing how good queens were early game and the lack of early game options for T to punish Z and started getting to the late game with unbelievable leads. Ok, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. That's ok.
O.O. What Infestor buff has there been.
EDIT: Ah I forgot about the time change buff. Thanks for being an asshole about it though.
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Zergs have never not whined.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On June 22 2013 10:03 SnipedSoul wrote:
Zergs have never not whined.
love the double negative lol
It feels that Zerg have been whining a lot since SCII release. It decreased with the queen buff but at that point, well, it was quite difficult to win a TvZ if you went with 4 or 6 queen build so I can see why lol. I feel that Terran and Protoss have whined less, possibly protoss whining a bit lesser than Terran but not that big of a gap.
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On June 22 2013 00:16 Ghin wrote:
I think Terrans whine the most because avilo is Terran
If TL allowed blank quotes I would do it here, but instead I'll use this space to complain.
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I think a lot of zergs just never mentally got past how terrible the original maps were for zerg and feel entitled to whine about everything.
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I agree that Zergs need to flank and adapt and all that janx, but we do do that despite our whining. We turned to roach defenses and queens and spores and busts and whatever we could do exploit the hellbat drops. We turned to runbys at literally any point in time + "micro roach/ling better" to at first ridiculous tactics like mass swarmhost/spore to keep up with mass gateways or mass lazers. It's how Zergs have won, time and time again.
But I feel that it (was) at least slightly depressing to ask us to defend consistently against two hellbats with spores/sunks/queens/roaches at EVERY base, as well as "micro roach/ling better" against 10+ sentries and some random number of +2/+1 immortals any time from 10-12 minutes on a two-way map like Neo Planet S. 6 minute evos sound simple enough, but when even making two extractors can add 5-10 seconds to when you can make units against pushes...
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Brotherhood of Nod players are the biggest whiners ever.
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On June 22 2013 14:10 ninazerg wrote:
Brotherhood of Nod players are the biggest whiners ever.
clearly you have never faced mass wolverines
GDI spam units make me sad
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I'm a Protoss player and I have noticed that almost every other Protoss I play bitches about something dumb. Sad to say I think P users whine the most from my experience.
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On June 22 2013 13:57 ymir233 wrote:
I agree that Zergs need to flank and adapt and all that janx, but we do do that despite our whining. We turned to roach defenses and queens and spores and busts and whatever we could do exploit the hellbat drops. We turned to runbys at literally any point in time + "micro roach/ling better" to at first ridiculous tactics like mass swarmhost/spore to keep up with mass gateways or mass lazers. It's how Zergs have won, time and time again.
But I feel that it (was) at least slightly depressing to ask us to defend consistently against two hellbats with spores/sunks/queens/roaches at EVERY base, as well as "micro roach/ling better" against 10+ sentries and some random number of +2/+1 immortals any time from 10-12 minutes on a two-way map like Neo Planet S. 6 minute evos sound simple enough, but when even making two extractors can add 5-10 seconds to when you can make units against pushes...
well this is what I am talking about  this seems like a passive whine. kidding! 
Anyway, the point is, why do zergs complain instead of finding out better ways do deal with stuff? I mean, you played that race, you just need to adapt like what "zergs" need to be doing.
I can agree that if you get aggressive with zerg you would likely fall behind but thats about any race(kidding) not Terran LOL but there have been openings like light ling pressure or 10 pool that are still aggressive and can still be okay. It is just that zerg wants to always play greedy opening 3 hatch before pool stuff and then complain?
If zerg is ahead you can't really kill him if he reacts better and counters you unless you have toss late game lazers or have guso medi drops. All races have their aces of doom, mutas for zerg anyone? infestor broodlord (WOL) Toss ball of death lategame. Fast Medivacs +hellion, hell remember when people complained about widow mine but now who does?
yeah but hellbats are really a problem in all match ups currently but we are talking about whines in general.
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On June 22 2013 03:59 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 17:33 datcirclejerk wrote:On June 20 2013 23:45 HardlyNever wrote:
My general impression is that terran is usually the "most hated" and that zerg is the "whiniest." Most of this is from early WoL release, where terran was overpowered and zerg was underpowered, and it just sort of cemented in the community from there (or at least in my mind).
I don't think there is a lot of truth in it, though. This guy gets it right. Zerg whine used to be justified, and now it's just stuck in the communities' memory. You guys don't see a huge amount of irony in this? Zerg was never as underpowered as they claimed to be. Many buffs and nerfs later, it turns out they weren't by far the worst, but by far the best.
Zerg was ridiculously underpowered for a very long time, borderline impossible to win with before some nerfs (when morrow completely obliterated Idra with Reapers, though that was nerfed almost immediately afterwards). Terran was then nerfed continuously while Zerg was slowly buffed (maps also changed over time to become bigger and more open, giving more of an advantage to zerg) and eventually we got to the point where Zergs were overpowered, especially the queen buff comes to mind.
Like everyone else, I think zergs just got used to whining when zerg was underpowered which has kept it coming even though I find most people who main zerg will agree that zerg has been overpowered at times lately (when Stephanos roach build became popular for example).
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EPT
