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Game of Thrones is a series that catched me like few other series before, I really enjoy it and I think it's amazingly well done in all terms. Of course it have its "hmm ok" stuff, like the need to sexual scenes and some gore moments.
But the S03E09 episode went a little bit far in terms of brutality... I know I know, most of you will disagree me. But let me at least explain my point of view.
I like GOT because I like stories with some political/military thrill on them, if you add a touch of fantasy you will probably have my attention. This story in particual is very interesting, because there so much plot twists, so much tension, so much things that can go wrong (and so much things that, actually 'go wrong') that it's hard to guess what's going to happen until it's happening. It's like Metal Gear, until the very end of the game you think you saved the world and defeated the bad guy. Until you realize that the bad guy was actually a good guy all this time. Genius.
Now, back on topic. What I try to say is that GOT, even if it have some, doesn't need the heart-breaking-brutality shown in the last scenes of the S03E09. The series keeps you up because of its plot, because of the twists and the endless posibilities that offers.
When you kill a main character, the obvious favourite character, you don't give them more misery than death itself, because you need them to trascend. Rob's wife should have died by only one thrust in the belly, they shouldn't have shown Lady Stark having her throat in the middle of a cry and well, Rob died the 'OK' way...
Of course, the trick of the heart-breaking-brutality works, I feel bad not because Rob and Catelyn died, I am just pissed by the cheap way they died.
TL;DR : Using the heart-breaking-brutality trick is cheap. The womb stabs were an unnecesary brutal strike that the series don't need to catch the attention. Bascially, I felt 'cheesed' by the episode... a really effective heart-breaking-brutality, but shows a really low value strategy from the writer/director/etc.
 
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That line of justification doesn't make any sense - it sounds more like you're angry the characters died horribly, which is kind of the point. It seems like you're thinking in terms of the just world fallacy.
Your argument is essentially that it wasn't "necessary" for them to brutally die - well, sucks. GRRM is trying to construct a somewhat realistic fantasy world and, more importantly, trying to make absolutely clear the fact that characters don't get a plot shield.
The womb stabs were an unnecesary brutal strike that the series don't need to catch the attention
The series doesn't need to "catch attention", it's hugely popular. What they're doing is showing the cut-throat nature of the GoT universe (as well as giving you another reason to hate Frey/the Lannisters).
When you kill a main character, the obvious favourite character, you don't give them more misery than death itself, because you need them to trascend. Rob's wife should have died by only one thrust in the belly
That's the point! It's kind of frustrating that you can't see something so obvious - the entire point of the Red Wedding is that no character gets to "transcend" (whatever you meant by that) or gets to avoid a horrible death just because they're a main character.
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It was a great scene and the emotional resonance it elicited is pretty impressive.
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On June 05 2013 01:55 uberxD wrote:
Game of Thrones is a series that catched me like few other series before, I really enjoy it and I think it's amazingly well done in all terms. Of course it have its "hmm ok" stuff, like the need to sexual scenes and some gore moments.
But the S03E09 episode went a little bit far in terms of brutality... I know I know, most of you will disagree me. But let me at least explain my point of view.
I like GOT because I like stories with some political/military thrill on them, if you add a touch of fantasy you will probably have my attention. This story in particual is very interesting, because there so much plot twists, so much tension, so much things that can go wrong (and so much things that, actually 'go wrong') that it's hard to guess what's going to happen until it's happening. It's like Metal Gear, until the very end of the game you think you saved the world and defeated the bad guy. Until you realize that the bad guy was actually a good guy all this time. Genius.
Now, back on topic. What I try to say is that GOT, even if it have some, doesn't need the heart-breaking-brutality shown in the last scenes of the S03E09. The series keeps you up because of its plot, because of the twists and the endless posibilities that offers.
When you kill a main character, the obvious favourite character, you don't give them more misery than death itself, because you need them to trascend. Rob's wife should have died by only one thrust in the belly, they shouldn't have shown Lady Stark having her throat in the middle of a cry and well, Rob died the 'OK' way...
Of course, the trick of the heart-breaking-brutality works, I feel bad not because Rob and Catelyn died, I am just pissed by the cheap way they died.
TL;DR : Using the heart-breaking-brutality trick is cheap. The womb stabs were an unnecesary brutal strike that the series don't need to catch the attention. Bascially, I felt 'cheesed' by the episode... a really effective heart-breaking-brutality, but shows a really low value strategy from the writer/director/etc.
You are just too sensitive.
If you are so weak like this you definitely should not read the books. Maybe stick to watching soap operas and Barney & friends.
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Then you definitely shouldn't read the books dude. That scene when you're reading the novel is just about as intense - except then you're forced to imagine yourself, as opposed to having a couple directors do that mind-warping/soul-raping work for you.
And I definitely don't accept your point about "transcendence." Transcending death isn't something that exists in the GoT universe. Everyone dies in a shitty way. Seriously though, when was the last guy who died in a "honorable" fashion? I seriously can't remember. Maybe that one lord from the north that ordered the deaths of those distant Lannister cousins? But even then, that was by the Starks, not someone else.
Those final seconds with Lady Stark just standing there, screaming, were gold. You could see in her eyes that she was going through what had happened, and was slowly coming to the realization that she was at least partly responsible for this massacre. That she had played the Game of Thrones, and lost. Oh, and the fact that it was some random guard (and not, say, Lord Frey) who put the knife to her throat was the perfect clincher. Not only was a fan favorite family ravaged, we didn't even get the cathartic release of it being Bad Guy #1. It was Random Henchman #10. It'd be like if James Bond was run over in one of the chase scenes, not disembowled by that crazy hat of Oddjob's. The catharsis isn't there. It's replaced by all that we have left, an utter disdain and hatred for the unfair nature of the world.
TL;DR: If you didn't like the Red Wedding, then you definitely should just stop watching Game of Thrones. The Red Wedding perfectly encompasses what that world does/is. Though it'd be sad if you did, because next episode ought to be awesome.
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Don't watch the rest of the show's seasons or read the books then. It gets worse.
And without the brutality, The Red Wedding wouldn't mean much and the characters' deaths even less so.
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Well the book is worse lol...
Also what is dead is not truly dead, but rise again, stronger.
I don't want to spoil it for everyone, but 2 of the the three stark characters who was cut down in red wedding are not dead in the story line.
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Was gonna write a lengthy reply but won't bother. GoT, or A song of ice and fire does not take a fairy tale stance on humanity, it takes a rather real stance on humanity. Humans are sometimes complete monsters. And _nobody_ is safe in this series, anyone can die at any point in time no matter how important of a character, i would've thought you realized this when Ned stark lost his head. If you cannot handle it then this series is not for you, because more people will die, that is the only thing you can be sure of with this series.
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Hong Kong9154 Posts
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Germany25657 Posts
I rearanged the title so the (SPOILERS) actually shows up in the sidebar 
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On June 05 2013 03:23 haduken wrote:Well the book is worse lol... Also what is dead is not truly dead, but rise again, stronger. I don't want to spoil it for everyone, + Show Spoiler +but 2 of the the three stark characters who was cut down in red wedding are not dead in the story line.
Then maybe you should actually you know... spoiler it since it's a future event not yet revealed in the series. I've read the books, but many others in this blog won't have.
OP, I think you're being a bit too sensitive. I don't remember exactly how it went down in the books but I seem to remember they paraded the dead Robb Stark around with the severed head of his dire wolf on his body... so there's that.
Was also annoyed that they didn't show Robb's approach to the Twins because in the book I remember Summer was freaking out and refused to calm down as they entered.
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I agree this isn't hostel! #antibabystabbingdickcuttingoffcrew (you should mention the theon torture scenes too op)
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Zzz its not as if Robb was a main character anyways.+ Show Spoiler +no main char has died yet I don't think
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lmao i can't believe op is actually serious
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Well I didn't expected to be popular by this post, as I predicted there's too much "don't like it don't see it" attitude with really low capacity to digest what's the series currently showing you.
As an example:
Ed Stark death was really important in this series. We're not discovering anything there... But was Ed Stark death so brutal as Rob and Cat Stark? It wasn't. You knew things we're going to fuck up when he died and the director or writer didn't need to show a brutal scene of his death to make you feel bad (and then excited to know what was going to happen).
But then comes the Rob and Cat death scene, which I don't know why, is stupidly brutual. It would work much better if the deaths were more subtle, so you could have time to digest the important plot twist than the deaths meant. But you couldn't cuz there's blood and cries everywhere.
Yes, I do think the torture scenes are kind of stupid... but not again, because it's gore. More because, at least I, can't figure out who is that fucker and what the hell he wants. Is just insanity? Meh, shitty argument.
PD: for anime wathcers, this felt to me like the finale of death note... A exaggerated psychosis.
Anyway, thank you for reading!!
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It's brutal because the freys and boltons are brutal people. Whats so hard to understand about that?
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i also wish i could change television shows to be more to my taste.
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Why the hell can't you just put a post like this in the GoT thread? Your homogenous and unoriginal opinion is so important that it needs to stand alone as an OP?
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To be fair, the Talisa's womb thing, while horrible to watch, was probably included specifically for book readers.
+ Show Spoiler +Robb's wife was not present at the Red Wedding in the books, and there is was a fan theory going around that she is alive and well, pregnant with his child. GRRM wrote this episode in its entirety, and took the opportunity to both shoot that theory down and also say "dear everyone who knows what's about to happen, here's a nasty surprise for you too".
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On June 05 2013 06:45 Iranon wrote:To be fair, the Talisa's womb thing, while horrible to watch, was probably included specifically for book readers. + Show Spoiler +Robb's wife was not present at the Red Wedding in the books, and there is was a fan theory going around that she is alive and well, pregnant with his child. GRRM wrote this episode in its entirety, and took the opportunity to both shoot that theory down and also say "dear everyone who knows what's about to happen, here's a nasty surprise for you too".
+ Show Spoiler +
jeyne westerling is alive. the theory is that she was swapped with her sister when the blackfish got away from jaime at riverrun because jeyne is described as having wide hips, but the girl turned over to jaime has narrow hips. so jeyne might be in hiding with the young wolf's child, but if in the tv series robb's wife is dead then obviously jeyne will never be an important character from now on.
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EPT
