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Game of Thrones is a series that catched me like few other series before, I really enjoy it and I think it's amazingly well done in all terms. Of course it have its "hmm ok" stuff, like the need to sexual scenes and some gore moments.
But the S03E09 episode went a little bit far in terms of brutality... I know I know, most of you will disagree me. But let me at least explain my point of view.
I like GOT because I like stories with some political/military thrill on them, if you add a touch of fantasy you will probably have my attention. This story in particual is very interesting, because there so much plot twists, so much tension, so much things that can go wrong (and so much things that, actually 'go wrong') that it's hard to guess what's going to happen until it's happening. It's like Metal Gear, until the very end of the game you think you saved the world and defeated the bad guy. Until you realize that the bad guy was actually a good guy all this time. Genius.
Now, back on topic. What I try to say is that GOT, even if it have some, doesn't need the heart-breaking-brutality shown in the last scenes of the S03E09. The series keeps you up because of its plot, because of the twists and the endless posibilities that offers.
When you kill a main character, the obvious favourite character, you don't give them more misery than death itself, because you need them to trascend. Rob's wife should have died by only one thrust in the belly, they shouldn't have shown Lady Stark having her throat in the middle of a cry and well, Rob died the 'OK' way...
Of course, the trick of the heart-breaking-brutality works, I feel bad not because Rob and Catelyn died, I am just pissed by the cheap way they died.
TL;DR : Using the heart-breaking-brutality trick is cheap. The womb stabs were an unnecesary brutal strike that the series don't need to catch the attention. Bascially, I felt 'cheesed' by the episode... a really effective heart-breaking-brutality, but shows a really low value strategy from the writer/director/etc.
 
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That line of justification doesn't make any sense - it sounds more like you're angry the characters died horribly, which is kind of the point. It seems like you're thinking in terms of the just world fallacy.
Your argument is essentially that it wasn't "necessary" for them to brutally die - well, sucks. GRRM is trying to construct a somewhat realistic fantasy world and, more importantly, trying to make absolutely clear the fact that characters don't get a plot shield.
The womb stabs were an unnecesary brutal strike that the series don't need to catch the attention
The series doesn't need to "catch attention", it's hugely popular. What they're doing is showing the cut-throat nature of the GoT universe (as well as giving you another reason to hate Frey/the Lannisters).
When you kill a main character, the obvious favourite character, you don't give them more misery than death itself, because you need them to trascend. Rob's wife should have died by only one thrust in the belly
That's the point! It's kind of frustrating that you can't see something so obvious - the entire point of the Red Wedding is that no character gets to "transcend" (whatever you meant by that) or gets to avoid a horrible death just because they're a main character.
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It was a great scene and the emotional resonance it elicited is pretty impressive.
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On June 05 2013 01:55 uberxD wrote:
Game of Thrones is a series that catched me like few other series before, I really enjoy it and I think it's amazingly well done in all terms. Of course it have its "hmm ok" stuff, like the need to sexual scenes and some gore moments.
But the S03E09 episode went a little bit far in terms of brutality... I know I know, most of you will disagree me. But let me at least explain my point of view.
I like GOT because I like stories with some political/military thrill on them, if you add a touch of fantasy you will probably have my attention. This story in particual is very interesting, because there so much plot twists, so much tension, so much things that can go wrong (and so much things that, actually 'go wrong') that it's hard to guess what's going to happen until it's happening. It's like Metal Gear, until the very end of the game you think you saved the world and defeated the bad guy. Until you realize that the bad guy was actually a good guy all this time. Genius.
Now, back on topic. What I try to say is that GOT, even if it have some, doesn't need the heart-breaking-brutality shown in the last scenes of the S03E09. The series keeps you up because of its plot, because of the twists and the endless posibilities that offers.
When you kill a main character, the obvious favourite character, you don't give them more misery than death itself, because you need them to trascend. Rob's wife should have died by only one thrust in the belly, they shouldn't have shown Lady Stark having her throat in the middle of a cry and well, Rob died the 'OK' way...
Of course, the trick of the heart-breaking-brutality works, I feel bad not because Rob and Catelyn died, I am just pissed by the cheap way they died.
TL;DR : Using the heart-breaking-brutality trick is cheap. The womb stabs were an unnecesary brutal strike that the series don't need to catch the attention. Bascially, I felt 'cheesed' by the episode... a really effective heart-breaking-brutality, but shows a really low value strategy from the writer/director/etc.
You are just too sensitive.
If you are so weak like this you definitely should not read the books. Maybe stick to watching soap operas and Barney & friends.
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Then you definitely shouldn't read the books dude. That scene when you're reading the novel is just about as intense - except then you're forced to imagine yourself, as opposed to having a couple directors do that mind-warping/soul-raping work for you.
And I definitely don't accept your point about "transcendence." Transcending death isn't something that exists in the GoT universe. Everyone dies in a shitty way. Seriously though, when was the last guy who died in a "honorable" fashion? I seriously can't remember. Maybe that one lord from the north that ordered the deaths of those distant Lannister cousins? But even then, that was by the Starks, not someone else.
Those final seconds with Lady Stark just standing there, screaming, were gold. You could see in her eyes that she was going through what had happened, and was slowly coming to the realization that she was at least partly responsible for this massacre. That she had played the Game of Thrones, and lost. Oh, and the fact that it was some random guard (and not, say, Lord Frey) who put the knife to her throat was the perfect clincher. Not only was a fan favorite family ravaged, we didn't even get the cathartic release of it being Bad Guy #1. It was Random Henchman #10. It'd be like if James Bond was run over in one of the chase scenes, not disembowled by that crazy hat of Oddjob's. The catharsis isn't there. It's replaced by all that we have left, an utter disdain and hatred for the unfair nature of the world.
TL;DR: If you didn't like the Red Wedding, then you definitely should just stop watching Game of Thrones. The Red Wedding perfectly encompasses what that world does/is. Though it'd be sad if you did, because next episode ought to be awesome.
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Don't watch the rest of the show's seasons or read the books then. It gets worse.
And without the brutality, The Red Wedding wouldn't mean much and the characters' deaths even less so.
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Well the book is worse lol...
Also what is dead is not truly dead, but rise again, stronger.
I don't want to spoil it for everyone, but 2 of the the three stark characters who was cut down in red wedding are not dead in the story line.
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Was gonna write a lengthy reply but won't bother. GoT, or A song of ice and fire does not take a fairy tale stance on humanity, it takes a rather real stance on humanity. Humans are sometimes complete monsters. And _nobody_ is safe in this series, anyone can die at any point in time no matter how important of a character, i would've thought you realized this when Ned stark lost his head. If you cannot handle it then this series is not for you, because more people will die, that is the only thing you can be sure of with this series.
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Hong Kong9153 Posts
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Germany25657 Posts
I rearanged the title so the (SPOILERS) actually shows up in the sidebar 
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On June 05 2013 03:23 haduken wrote:Well the book is worse lol... Also what is dead is not truly dead, but rise again, stronger. I don't want to spoil it for everyone, + Show Spoiler +but 2 of the the three stark characters who was cut down in red wedding are not dead in the story line.
Then maybe you should actually you know... spoiler it since it's a future event not yet revealed in the series. I've read the books, but many others in this blog won't have.
OP, I think you're being a bit too sensitive. I don't remember exactly how it went down in the books but I seem to remember they paraded the dead Robb Stark around with the severed head of his dire wolf on his body... so there's that.
Was also annoyed that they didn't show Robb's approach to the Twins because in the book I remember Summer was freaking out and refused to calm down as they entered.
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I agree this isn't hostel! #antibabystabbingdickcuttingoffcrew (you should mention the theon torture scenes too op)
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Zzz its not as if Robb was a main character anyways.+ Show Spoiler +no main char has died yet I don't think
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lmao i can't believe op is actually serious
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Well I didn't expected to be popular by this post, as I predicted there's too much "don't like it don't see it" attitude with really low capacity to digest what's the series currently showing you.
As an example:
Ed Stark death was really important in this series. We're not discovering anything there... But was Ed Stark death so brutal as Rob and Cat Stark? It wasn't. You knew things we're going to fuck up when he died and the director or writer didn't need to show a brutal scene of his death to make you feel bad (and then excited to know what was going to happen).
But then comes the Rob and Cat death scene, which I don't know why, is stupidly brutual. It would work much better if the deaths were more subtle, so you could have time to digest the important plot twist than the deaths meant. But you couldn't cuz there's blood and cries everywhere.
Yes, I do think the torture scenes are kind of stupid... but not again, because it's gore. More because, at least I, can't figure out who is that fucker and what the hell he wants. Is just insanity? Meh, shitty argument.
PD: for anime wathcers, this felt to me like the finale of death note... A exaggerated psychosis.
Anyway, thank you for reading!!
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It's brutal because the freys and boltons are brutal people. Whats so hard to understand about that?
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i also wish i could change television shows to be more to my taste.
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Why the hell can't you just put a post like this in the GoT thread? Your homogenous and unoriginal opinion is so important that it needs to stand alone as an OP?
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To be fair, the Talisa's womb thing, while horrible to watch, was probably included specifically for book readers.
+ Show Spoiler +Robb's wife was not present at the Red Wedding in the books, and there is was a fan theory going around that she is alive and well, pregnant with his child. GRRM wrote this episode in its entirety, and took the opportunity to both shoot that theory down and also say "dear everyone who knows what's about to happen, here's a nasty surprise for you too".
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On June 05 2013 06:45 Iranon wrote:To be fair, the Talisa's womb thing, while horrible to watch, was probably included specifically for book readers. + Show Spoiler +Robb's wife was not present at the Red Wedding in the books, and there is was a fan theory going around that she is alive and well, pregnant with his child. GRRM wrote this episode in its entirety, and took the opportunity to both shoot that theory down and also say "dear everyone who knows what's about to happen, here's a nasty surprise for you too".
+ Show Spoiler +
jeyne westerling is alive. the theory is that she was swapped with her sister when the blackfish got away from jaime at riverrun because jeyne is described as having wide hips, but the girl turned over to jaime has narrow hips. so jeyne might be in hiding with the young wolf's child, but if in the tv series robb's wife is dead then obviously jeyne will never be an important character from now on.
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Hong Kong9153 Posts
On June 05 2013 05:50 uberxD wrote:
Well I didn't expected to be popular by this post, as I predicted there's too much "don't like it don't see it" attitude with really low capacity to digest what's the series currently showing you.
You are the one saying that fiction should only show either no deaths or 'clean' deaths in a 'political/military' fictional thriller. Fiction can be anything, and while what went on here is not standard for tame American television standards, it isn't improper. People don't always die fairy tale deaths.
And as far as your Death Note implications go
+ Show Spoiler +he had to die, he was told he was going to in the first episode
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On June 05 2013 01:55 uberxD wrote:
TL;DR : Using the heart-breaking-brutality trick is cheap. The womb stabs were an unnecesary brutal strike that the series don't need to catch the attention. Bascially, I felt 'cheesed' by the episode... a really effective heart-breaking-brutality, but shows a really low value strategy from the writer/director/etc.
A ton of stuff isn't necessary. Most of what gives the show character isn't 'necessary'. It's those unnecessary things that add color to the show and elevate it.
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On June 05 2013 05:50 uberxD wrote:
Well I didn't expected to be popular by this post, as I predicted there's too much "don't like it don't see it" attitude with really low capacity to digest what's the series currently showing you.
You are the one with low capacity to digest the fact that the directors decided that the brutality is necessary to show off how fucked up the Boltons and the Freys are, don't go around telling the writers how to write.
Same thing with Theon's torture. Ramsay is a fucking psycho (actually much much worse than that) in the books, all the torturing in the show just do him very well justice (he's much worse actually, but it's fine).
Again, this series isn't for everyone, if you find it too strong for your taste, don't ever read the books, because compared to them the HBO adaptation is much more discrete.
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This is the most 1/5 blog i've read in a long time.
The entire show is based on cheap shit, pointless characters added for nude scenes and shortcuts to please the masses.
And you choose to critique this? Give me a break.
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On June 05 2013 03:59 Jonoman92 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 03:23 haduken wrote:Well the book is worse lol... Also what is dead is not truly dead, but rise again, stronger. I don't want to spoil it for everyone, + Show Spoiler +but 2 of the the three stark characters who was cut down in red wedding are not dead in the story line. Then maybe you should actually you know... spoiler it since it's a future event not yet revealed in the series. I've read the books, but many others in this blog won't have.
lol glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. I don't care either way because I don't read/watch, but that's just silly. It's like when people say something totally offensive and just preface it with a "no offense".
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OP should go watch Spartacus if he thinks that episode was brutal/excessive.
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On June 05 2013 07:44 Thrill wrote:
This is the most 1/5 blog i've read in a long time.
The entire show is based on cheap shit, pointless characters added for nude scenes and shortcuts to please the masses.
And you choose to critique this? Give me a break.
Exactly this.
If you thought everything else from got is classy and a fine example of literature/film making you gotta take a break. xD
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calling the brutality "unnecessary"? If you only want the necessary elements of the plot, go read Wikipedia. The brutality gave the scene its color and made it the most gut-wrenching thing I've ever seen on TV. It was incredible for me to be so taken off-guard.
Who cares if you don't get to process the implications at that moment? You have a whole week to wait for the next episode and speculate on what it will all mean. Just enjoy the ride while you watch the show.
On June 05 2013 03:23 haduken wrote:
Well the book is worse lol...
Also what is dead is not truly dead, but rise again, stronger.
I don't want to spoil it for everyone, but...
what the fuck, spoiler that shit dude! "I don't want to spoil it, but here's a spoiler!"
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On June 05 2013 07:44 Thrill wrote:
This is the most 1/5 blog i've read in a long time.
The entire show is based on cheap shit, pointless characters added for nude scenes and shortcuts to please the masses.
And you choose to critique this? Give me a break.
I'm curious, do you actually watch the show? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't think it was all 'cheap shit' if you did. This scene in question wasn't cheap, either, but a very well-crafted and daring emotional and strategical (anti)climax to the main Stark plotline (with a multiple-season buildup). What aspect of that is cheap?
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On June 05 2013 10:07 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 07:44 Thrill wrote:
This is the most 1/5 blog i've read in a long time.
The entire show is based on cheap shit, pointless characters added for nude scenes and shortcuts to please the masses.
And you choose to critique this? Give me a break. I'm curious, do you actually watch the show? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't think it was all 'cheap shit' if you did. This scene in question wasn't cheap, either, but a very well-crafted and daring emotional and strategical (anti)climax to the main Stark plotline (with a multiple-season buildup). What aspect of that is cheap?
It wasn't the book and we all know only books can truly represent the glorious truth of GRRM's work.
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On June 05 2013 01:55 uberxD wrote:
Game of Thrones is a series that catched me like few other series before, I really enjoy it and I think it's amazingly well done in all terms. Of course it have its "hmm ok" stuff, like the need to sexual scenes and some gore moments.
But the S03E09 episode went a little bit far in terms of brutality... I know I know, most of you will disagree me. But let me at least explain my point of view.
I like GOT because I like stories with some political/military thrill on them, if you add a touch of fantasy you will probably have my attention. This story in particual is very interesting, because there so much plot twists, so much tension, so much things that can go wrong (and so much things that, actually 'go wrong') that it's hard to guess what's going to happen until it's happening. It's like Metal Gear, until the very end of the game you think you saved the world and defeated the bad guy. Until you realize that the bad guy was actually a good guy all this time. Genius.
Now, back on topic. What I try to say is that GOT, even if it have some, doesn't need the heart-breaking-brutality shown in the last scenes of the S03E09. The series keeps you up because of its plot, because of the twists and the endless posibilities that offers.
When you kill a main character, the obvious favourite character, you don't give them more misery than death itself, because you need them to trascend. Rob's wife should have died by only one thrust in the belly, they shouldn't have shown Lady Stark having her throat in the middle of a cry and well, Rob died the 'OK' way...
Of course, the trick of the heart-breaking-brutality works, I feel bad not because Rob and Catelyn died, I am just pissed by the cheap way they died.
TL;DR : Using the heart-breaking-brutality trick is cheap. The womb stabs were an unnecesary brutal strike that the series don't need to catch the attention. Bascially, I felt 'cheesed' by the episode... a really effective heart-breaking-brutality, but shows a really low value strategy from the writer/director/etc.
No, it really doesn't. It shows how brilliant they are. The entire point of the scene was to show the utter brutality, gruesomeness, and level of betrayal that the Frey's just enacted. If you don't like grim, don't watch Game of Thrones.
This is the most 1/5 blog i've read in a long time.
The entire show is based on cheap shit, pointless characters added for nude scenes and shortcuts to please the masses.
And you choose to critique this? Give me a break.
When people ask me what a "hipster" is, I'll be pointing to examples like you.
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On June 05 2013 03:23 haduken wrote:
-spoilers-
I don't want to spoil it for everyone, but -spoilers-
Thanks for the spoilers.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/P8BKGul.gif)
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Rob and cat were killed because of revenge, ned was different, he was publically executed
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I feel like GoT has slowly started to become more and more corny. Perhaps the mysticism wore off and perhaps it was just budgeting issues or something.
Which is bad. My mom used to watch a lot of soap operas and while people should do what makes them happy I don't want to live my life in a rut.
edit: Thrill is right. This is just a modern day Colliseum.
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what. how were you cheesed? murder is brutal, get over it.
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On June 05 2013 10:07 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 07:44 Thrill wrote:
This is the most 1/5 blog i've read in a long time.
The entire show is based on cheap shit, pointless characters added for nude scenes and shortcuts to please the masses.
And you choose to critique this? Give me a break. I'm curious, do you actually watch the show? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't think it was all 'cheap shit' if you did. This scene in question wasn't cheap, either, but a very well-crafted and daring emotional and strategical (anti)climax to the main Stark plotline (with a multiple-season buildup). What aspect of that is cheap?
he means that the excessive nudity and gore is exploitative and unnecessary and that the story is simplified for the average tv audience
i sorta agree, the only scenes it's really "called for" is when tyrion is whoring but they find a way to have boobs in pretty much every single episode
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haha you guys are so mad! #antibabystabbingcrew
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On June 05 2013 13:25 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 10:07 matjlav wrote:On June 05 2013 07:44 Thrill wrote:
This is the most 1/5 blog i've read in a long time.
The entire show is based on cheap shit, pointless characters added for nude scenes and shortcuts to please the masses.
And you choose to critique this? Give me a break. I'm curious, do you actually watch the show? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't think it was all 'cheap shit' if you did. This scene in question wasn't cheap, either, but a very well-crafted and daring emotional and strategical (anti)climax to the main Stark plotline (with a multiple-season buildup). What aspect of that is cheap? he means that the excessive nudity and gore is exploitative and unnecessary and that the story is simplified for the average tv audience i sorta agree, the only scenes it's really "called for" is when tyrion is whoring but they find a way to have boobs in pretty much every single episode
He said "the entire show is based on cheap shit," not that there are just some scenes that are cheap, low-brow entertainment. I agree the excessive nudity and gore is pretty unnecessary for the most part, but that doesn't discredit the entire rest of the show.
And the story isn't "simplified for the average tv audience"; it's simplified somewhat because of the limitations of squeezing each book into a 10-hour TV series, but they still have enough plotlines that it often takes 2 full episodes to get in one scene for each major plot thread. Do you know of any TV shows on the air right now that are more complex?
Saying the show is entirely based on "cheap shit" is something that someone would only say if they watched the first 20 minutes, couldn't follow the plot, saw boobs, and decided it would be convenient to judge the entire 3 seasons of the show based on that. If you actually watch it and follow it closely, it's just nonsense to say that. Especially when you compare it to a truly "average American" TV show like How I Met Your Mother or something.
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I'm not surprised by GoT fanboys, given the reaction I had when I repproached the exact same thing to the show a month ago.
The sex and violence is cheesy, boring and geered toward a young male audience that defend it by arguments that show the cinematographic and litterary culture of... the average teenage male I guess. You guys have fascinating views of what makes good fiction and good cinema, tell me more please.
Showing doggystyle sex every episode is incredibly childish. The fact that a world is violent and the role of sex in it could be shown in much more subtle ways, maybe even in ways that could make us think about the way sexuality works in our society for instance. Trying to answer the "what would be the unseen consequences of a more promiscuous society be ?" That would be interesting. Instead ? we have boobs. Grand. Same line for on screen decapitation. Showing violence for the sake of violence is bad writing and bad directing. I definitely think you need to have a point of view on the violence you show for it not to be gratuitous.
Anyway, I'm not mad to know people like the show, I recognize the books have some qualities (even if they suffer a bit from the same stuff). Just don't act superior because you like "adult" "gritty" "realistic" things, because that's not the case at all. Typically
If you are so weak like this you definitely should not read the books. Maybe stick to watching soap operas and Barney & friends.
deserves to be answered by "If you're so interested in that kind of dumb stuff, you're not ready for good cinema and litterature. You should stick to teenage boy shows and books."
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On June 06 2013 03:45 corumjhaelen wrote:I'm not surprised by GoT fanboys, given the reaction I had when I repproached the exact same thing to the show a month ago. The sex and violence is cheesy, boring and geered toward a young male audience that defend it by arguments that show the cinematographic and litterary culture of... the average teenage male I guess. You guys have fascinating views of what makes good fiction and good cinema, tell me more please. Showing doggystyle sex every episode is incredibly childish. The fact that a world is violent and the role of sex in it could be shown in much more subtle ways, maybe even in ways that could make us think about the way sexuality works in our society for instance. Trying to answer the "what would be the unseen consequences of a more promiscuous society be ?" That would be interesting. Instead ? we have boobs. Grand. Same line for on screen decapitation. Showing violence for the sake of violence is bad writing and bad directing. I definitely think you need to have a point of view on the violence you show for it not to be gratuitous. Anyway, I'm not mad to know people like the show, I recognize the books have some qualities (even if they suffer a bit from the same stuff). Just don't act superior because you like "adult" "gritty" "realistic" things, because that's not the case at all. Typically Show nested quote +
If you are so weak like this you definitely should not read the books. Maybe stick to watching soap operas and Barney & friends.
deserves to be answered by "If you're so interested in that kind of dumb stuff, you're not ready for good cinema and litterature. You should stick to teenage boy shows and books."
All the sex and violence do happen in the books, so why the fuck can't people just accept that? I sincerely do not understand how can people be so sensitive about it.
GoT is not here to be some philosophical series to make us wonder about the human nature and all of that stuff. They are live acting one of the best fantasy book series ever written. All the sex and all the gore are present in most of the chapters, and they made it happen in the show too.
Get it: nudity and especially brutality are part of the story and set the tone of the song.
I think many people are having trouble understanding it because they haven't read the book, so from an outside view the show do seem to be exagerating on the boobs and violence, but too bad, because that is part of A Song of Ice and Fire and it has to be shown.
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On June 06 2013 05:21 fabiano wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 03:45 corumjhaelen wrote:I'm not surprised by GoT fanboys, given the reaction I had when I repproached the exact same thing to the show a month ago. The sex and violence is cheesy, boring and geered toward a young male audience that defend it by arguments that show the cinematographic and litterary culture of... the average teenage male I guess. You guys have fascinating views of what makes good fiction and good cinema, tell me more please. Showing doggystyle sex every episode is incredibly childish. The fact that a world is violent and the role of sex in it could be shown in much more subtle ways, maybe even in ways that could make us think about the way sexuality works in our society for instance. Trying to answer the "what would be the unseen consequences of a more promiscuous society be ?" That would be interesting. Instead ? we have boobs. Grand. Same line for on screen decapitation. Showing violence for the sake of violence is bad writing and bad directing. I definitely think you need to have a point of view on the violence you show for it not to be gratuitous. Anyway, I'm not mad to know people like the show, I recognize the books have some qualities (even if they suffer a bit from the same stuff). Just don't act superior because you like "adult" "gritty" "realistic" things, because that's not the case at all. Typically
If you are so weak like this you definitely should not read the books. Maybe stick to watching soap operas and Barney & friends.
deserves to be answered by "If you're so interested in that kind of dumb stuff, you're not ready for good cinema and litterature. You should stick to teenage boy shows and books." All the sex and violence do happen in the books, so why the fuck can't people just accept that? I sincerely do not understand how can people be so sensitive about it. GoT is not here to be some philosophical series to make us wonder about the human nature and all of that stuff. They are live acting one of the best fantasy book series ever written. All the sex and all the gore are present in most of the chapters, and they made it happen in the show too. Get it: nudity and especially brutality are part of the story and set the tone of the song. I think many people are having trouble understanding it because they haven't read the book, so from an outside view the show do seem to be exagerating on the boobs and violence, but too bad, because that is part of A Song of Ice and Fire and it has to be shown.
I have read the books, so I could say your point is moot. The violence and sex is as idiotic in the book as it is in the serie, but my opinion is that the serie lacks the good side of the books.
And this is the main why LoTR is a way better book than GoT : there is some valuable questionning of human nature in it. Get over it.
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I don't know.
I really think the series is portraying the books the best they possibly can with limited cast, budget and time. And the sex and violence paint very well the feeling in the books.
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"i dont want to spoil it for everyone but here, *spoiler*"
ROFL
i think stomach stabbing was fine because
1) 1 poke wont kill, maybe they should have sliced her stomach and entrails/fetus coming out? that would be more brutal. entrails display is very common in the book, i dont think we've seen it on show yet.
2) freys were pissed at her and the baby, they probably heard it from somewhere shes pregnant and what better way to kill her?
3) its a fucked up world
4) no characters receive special treatment
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On June 06 2013 05:50 fabiano wrote:
I don't know.
I really think the series is portraying the books the best they possibly can with limited cast, budget and time. And the sex and violence paint very well the feeling in the books.
but that in no way makes the sex/violence good, it just makes it faithful to the source material.
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On June 05 2013 05:50 uberxD wrote:
Yes, I do think the torture scenes are kind of stupid... but not again, because it's gore. More because, at least I, can't figure out who is that fucker and what the hell he wants. Is just insanity? Meh, shitty argument.
Book spoilers if you actually care, im not sure if they will ever touch on this (perhaps the next season) about the torture.
+ Show Spoiler +
Theon is being tortured by Roose Bolton's (bastard?) Son (Roose bolton is the guy who Catlyn checked up his sleve and saw he was wearing chainmail, that guy.)
If the show followed how i interpreted the Bolton Family/House in general, they are really cut-throat.
It was expected to happen they would take the easy route for themselves after robb/catlyn having a bad impressions to the soldiers on how they wanna treat things (Jamie lannister fiasco for instance)
As far as the insane tourtue goes, that scene (in the show) where Theon was given a chance to guess correctly who he is, he was right in his call.
Its just that the Boltons are so fucked up they like to De-moralize and brutally fuck with people.
Try reading the books at a slow pace after each episode, you grow to the story a bit more.
The above statement is from what i gather slowly reading each chapter after each episode that airs. I might be a bit off but when i saw that scene and i knew a bit about the previous two books i understood why.
Try looking at their deaths from the perspectives of the other houses, what value did robb's crusade actually have? Would you rather just bitch out the easy way?
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On June 06 2013 03:45 corumjhaelen wrote:I'm not surprised by GoT fanboys, given the reaction I had when I repproached the exact same thing to the show a month ago. The sex and violence is cheesy, boring and geered toward a young male audience that defend it by arguments that show the cinematographic and litterary culture of... the average teenage male I guess. You guys have fascinating views of what makes good fiction and good cinema, tell me more please. Showing doggystyle sex every episode is incredibly childish. The fact that a world is violent and the role of sex in it could be shown in much more subtle ways, maybe even in ways that could make us think about the way sexuality works in our society for instance. Trying to answer the "what would be the unseen consequences of a more promiscuous society be ?" That would be interesting. Instead ? we have boobs. Grand. Same line for on screen decapitation. Showing violence for the sake of violence is bad writing and bad directing. I definitely think you need to have a point of view on the violence you show for it not to be gratuitous. Anyway, I'm not mad to know people like the show, I recognize the books have some qualities (even if they suffer a bit from the same stuff). Just don't act superior because you like "adult" "gritty" "realistic" things, because that's not the case at all. Typically Show nested quote +
If you are so weak like this you definitely should not read the books. Maybe stick to watching soap operas and Barney & friends.
deserves to be answered by "If you're so interested in that kind of dumb stuff, you're not ready for good cinema and litterature. You should stick to teenage boy shows and books."
The books and the series do not make a big deal out of the sex at all - more often they're just casual backgrounds for exposition to occur over (most obvious one which comes to mind is Littlefinger's backstory scene in the brothel). It isn't meant to be questioning promiscuity in society at all; it just happens to be a part of the setting. Same goes for violence - it is just there, because that's what medieval combat was like back then. All they are doing is just adding bits to the setting, and sometimes for shock value (red wedding did it perfectly - it's loud, brash, not subtle at all, but once again, that was the intent. You're not supposed to glean revelations about the Human Condition from that scene).
Neither show nor books make a big deal out of the sex and violence; so why should you?
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EPT
