Cultural goodness Kabuki is a style of Japanese theatre which is a bit off the wall, and very entertaining. Makeup is worn to portray character traits. Movement is usually way over the top. Kabuki was originally performed by women until their participation in theatre was banned.
The pronunciation of each character is written underneath in romaji (Phonetic spelling of characters using the Roman alphabet). The stroke order of each character is denoted by the blue numbered arrows. ゐ and ゑ are no longer used and will be skipped
Today we'll be looking at the rest of the hiragana!
Pronunciation: This group of Kana is difficult for a lot of people. The romaji used is the letter R, but the pronunciation is not a typical R sound. A light articulation should be used at the beginning of an R sound, followed by the standard Japanese vowel sound. It’s often described as something between an R sound and an L sound. To me it sounds like a mix of R, L, and D.
On May 23 2013 00:45 scintilliaSD wrote: Closest analog in English to the Japanese 'r' sound (I've said this in previous threads, but I figure it's worth repeating here) is the 'tt' sound in "butter." A quick flap that's not quite a 'd' or a 't'.
Turns out that Japanesepod101 is not entirely free! So, this will have to do for now. I’ll try to find something a bit better for the Katakana.
Pronunciation I’m going to group the rest of the characters together and explain their pronunciations individually. わ → wa = Exactly what it looks like. WAter, WAlking, W sound followed by the vowel.
を → o = Pronounced just like お - It’s written as “wo” in romaji in order to differentiate between を and お, but they are pronounced exactly the same way. (This character is produced on an English keyboard using an IME by typing “wo” also)
ん → n = Sounds just like the English N. However, there is more than one way to produce this sound. Standard N in English is one way, using an M sound is usually OK, and a useful one to learn is making an N sound with the back of your tongue instead of the front. This is useful for words like べんり where it’s difficult to make the sound for り when using the tip of your tongue for ん.
The original “Lesson 1 - Intro” post has been updated to contain a list of resources that I’ll most likely be mentioning throughout this series. I’ll also add anything I mention that isn’t already there.
Feedback over the course of these entries will be much appreciated, and I will try to tweak future lessons to everyone’s liking.
Closest analog in English to the Japanese 'r' sound (I've said this in previous threads, but I figure it's worth repeating here) is the 'tt' sound in "butter." A quick flap that's not quite a 'd' or a 't'.
On May 23 2013 00:45 scintilliaSD wrote: Closest analog in English to the Japanese 'r' sound (I've said this in previous threads, but I figure it's worth repeating here) is the 'tt' sound in "butter." A quick flap that's not quite a 'd' or a 't'.
This helps a lot! It helps to think of it like this sound instead of somewhere between L and R.
Thanks for the post, wasn't aware about the ra, ri, ru, re, ro pronunciation.
I've started attempting to learn kanji. Is there anything you can tell me that will make my life easier? It seems different from other languages. It is almost like each kanji needs to be learned on its own. With roman letters, at least you can see the parts of the word within to make it easier to memorize.
As far as I am aware you can't just use an 'm' sound instead of an 'n' sound for ん wherever you want to. There are words like 先輩 （せんぱい）, where the ん is pronounced 'm'. This is because the 'mp' combination is easier (as in: less movement needed) to pronounce than 'np' (also 'mb', maybe more I can't think of right now). There also are words, usually with ん at the end of the word, where it is pronounced similar to 'ng' as in "spring" (it's not exactly the same sound, but somewhere between 'n' and 'ng'). For example 円 （えん）. For "normal" words, the pronounciation is 'n'.
As far as I can tell, 'm' before 'p' or 'b' and 'ng' at the end is a good rule of thumb. But to be sure you should check out voice samples for each word (for example on WWWJDIC; I used that site all the time and had Javascript off, so I didn't notice it had samples until recently lol).
Learning Kanji... That's a tough one. I think it's a good idea to check out radicals (the parts Kanji are made of). There are plenty of tables with radicals and names for them on the internet, though most of them are kinda bad. Here's the Japanese Wiki on Radicals. I actually just dug this up right now and haven't gone through it, but it seems to be really good - if you can understand it that is. Don't be scared, it's a long page but the radicals are at the middle/bottom in a long list sorted by stroke count.
Why radicals? It's easier to memorize radicals (there are fewer of them and they are simpler and quite iconic compared to most Kanji) than Kanji. What you want of these radicals is just a name for each of the important ones. Doesn't have to be the official name, just a name that you can remember. And then you can pick a Kanji apart and make a small story out of its radicals, its meaning and its pronounciation. Doesn't matter how stupid it is. The stupider, the better even. It really helps during the first few times of repetition (repeat them methodically, using Anki helps a bunch).
Radicals also help you get the stroke order for new Kanji right, and there are radical based Kanji lookup databases online. Notice however, that these databases usually use a slightly different (simpler) set of radicals.
You can also make up your own "radicals". Patterns that you see a lot or that look very iconic to you. You name those for yourself and use them just like regular radicals. As long as it helps you make stories, anything goes.
I also recommend you not to learn Kanji by themselves, but rather actual words. A word can be one or more Kanji and Kana in basically any combination. The same Kanji can have different meanings and pronounciations in different words.
On May 23 2013 03:30 spinesheath wrote: As far as I am aware you can't just use an 'm' sound instead of an 'n' sound for ん wherever you want to. There are words like 先輩 （せんぱい）, where the ん is pronounced 'm'. This is because the 'mp' combination is easier (as in: less movement needed) to pronounce than 'np' (also 'mb', maybe more I can't think of right now). There also are words, usually with ん at the end of the word, where it is pronounced similar to 'ng' as in "spring" (it's not exactly the same sound, but somewhere between 'n' and 'ng'). For example 円 （えん）. For "normal" words, the pronounciation is 'n'.
As far as I can tell, 'm' before 'p' or 'b' and 'ng' at the end is a good rule of thumb. But to be sure you should check out voice samples for each word (for example on WWWJDIC; I used that site all the time and had Javascript off, so I didn't notice it had samples until recently lol).
Learning Kanji... That's a tough one. I think it's a good idea to check out radicals (the parts Kanji are made of). There are plenty of tables with radicals and names for them on the internet, though most of them are kinda bad. Here's the Japanese Wiki on Radicals. I actually just dug this up right now and haven't gone through it, but it seems to be really good - if you can understand it that is. Don't be scared, it's a long page but the radicals are at the middle/bottom in a long list sorted by stroke count.
Why radicals? It's easier to memorize radicals (there are fewer of them and they are simpler and quite iconic compared to most Kanji) than Kanji. What you want of these radicals is just a name for each of the important ones. Doesn't have to be the official name, just a name that you can remember. And then you can pick a Kanji apart and make a small story out of its radicals, its meaning and its pronounciation. Doesn't matter how stupid it is. The stupider, the better even. It really helps during the first few times of repetition (repeat them methodically, using Anki helps a bunch).
Radicals also help you get the stroke order for new Kanji right, and there are radical based Kanji lookup databases online. Notice however, that these databases usually use a slightly different (simpler) set of radicals.
You can also make up your own "radicals". Patterns that you see a lot or that look very iconic to you. You name those for yourself and use them just like regular radicals. As long as it helps you make stories, anything goes.
I also recommend you not to learn Kanji by themselves, but rather actual words. A word can be one or more Kanji and Kana in basically any combination. The same Kanji can have different meanings and pronounciations in different words.
Some nice additions, thanks
As far as this series goes, I'm planning on introducing kanji in the same order that native Japanese learn them in school. Anki is good for memorizing anything. I use it for a lot of my classes at school on top of my Japanese studies. I'm not sure how much I'll be talking about their radicals, as I don't know them very well myself. Perhaps it's something I should invest more time in.
I would not use the order in which japanese students learn kanji. It (debately) makes sense for native learners, but it makes absolutely no sense at all for foreign learners. The kanji in context books as well as a few others I don't remember off the top of my head use much more logical systems, I would go with one of those.
I wanted to add some "radicals" I made up for myself in the above post, but couldn't think of any at that point, now here I have some: The left part of 掃, a vertical line and two horizontals, I call that one the "broom" because I really wanted a name for it when I was learning 掃除, which is "cleaning, sweeping". It appears quite frequently and isn't a traditional radical. Maybe it counts as a weird version of a traditional one, but who cares. Similarly, the left part of 狭, which is just a "(crooked or bent) broom". I definitely have some more, but I'm not keeping track of them...
On May 23 2013 16:21 spinesheath wrote: I wanted to add some "radicals" I made up for myself in the above post, but couldn't think of any at that point, now here I have some: The left part of 掃, a vertical line and two horizontals, I call that one the "broom" because I really wanted a name for it when I was learning 掃除, which is "cleaning, sweeping". It appears quite frequently and isn't a traditional radical. Maybe it counts as a weird version of a traditional one, but who cares. Similarly, the left part of 狭, which is just a "(crooked or bent) broom". I definitely have some more, but I'm not keeping track of them...
The left one of 掃 is KanXi radical 64 (hand): ⼿. In Japanese, it's called 手偏 (tehen). The second one is KanXi radical 94 (dog): 犬. I would expects it's called inuhen, but I couldn't find that in my dictionaries.
That said, I think spinesheaths approach is the better one, at least for beginners. Knowing the actual radicals and the technicalities are academia and has nothing to do with ones ability to use Japanese, and using your own imagination will be more helpful in memorizing.
Yeah those sure seem weird if you consider how the stroke count, order and direction goes. I mostly knew about the "flesh" 肉 into "moon" 月 transformation and the various versions of "person" 人 for example in 使 (again the left one btw).
But yeah, the technicalities don't matter. You just need way to help remember stuff until it is firmly ingrained in your memory. That being said, researching the background of a Kanji can be very effective for remembering it (for example it helped me remember "pork" 豚肉, which basically is "lazy version of flesh", "pig", "flesh"). It probably takes a lot of time, but if you're interested in such things anyways then I would give it shot.
Further extending on the pronounciation of ん: In 翻訳 （ほんやく） the ん seems to be hardly pronounced at all. Maybe it can be categorized as something similar to the 'ng' case. Just check it out for yourself.
On May 23 2013 16:32 Tobberoth wrote: The second one is KanXi radical 94 (dog): 犬. I would expects it's called inuhen, but I couldn't find that in my dictionaries.
On May 23 2013 15:15 futility wrote: I would not use the order in which japanese students learn kanji. It (debately) makes sense for native learners, but it makes absolutely no sense at all for foreign learners. The kanji in context books as well as a few others I don't remember off the top of my head use much more logical systems, I would go with one of those.
On May 23 2013 16:21 spinesheath wrote: I wanted to add some "radicals" I made up for myself in the above post, but couldn't think of any at that point, now here I have some: The left part of 掃, a vertical line and two horizontals, I call that one the "broom" because I really wanted a name for it when I was learning 掃除, which is "cleaning, sweeping". It appears quite frequently and isn't a traditional radical. Maybe it counts as a weird version of a traditional one, but who cares. Similarly, the left part of 狭, which is just a "(crooked or bent) broom". I definitely have some more, but I'm not keeping track of them...
The left one of 掃 is KanXi radical 64 (hand): ⼿. In Japanese, it's called 手偏 (tehen). The second one is KanXi radical 94 (dog): 犬. I would expects it's called inuhen, but I couldn't find that in my dictionaries.
That said, I think spinesheaths approach is the better one, at least for beginners. Knowing the actual radicals and the technicalities are academia and has nothing to do with ones ability to use Japanese, and using your own imagination will be more helpful in memorizing.
Whatever is easier for an individual to learn them is better for that person. I think it was already stated, but you can look up kanji by the radical. If you come across a kanji you don't know, but recognize the radical you can find it. If you don't know the kanji or the radical, then it becomes difficult
The grade 1 Kanji taught in Japan seem pretty reasonable to me. They are fairly simple and represent a lot of common radicals which will come in handy as you learn the more complex Kanji. There are a couple more complex Kanji here and there, but overall I like the list. I don't see anything terribly wrong with it.
On May 23 2013 22:35 Marimokkori wrote: Whatever is easier for an individual to learn them is better for that person. I think it was already stated, but you can look up kanji by the radical. If you come across a kanji you don't know, but recognize the radical you can find it. If you don't know the kanji or the radical, then it becomes difficult
You can always make an educated guess on the stroke order (fairly easy after a while imo) and let http://kanji.sljfaq.org/ do the work for you.
To be honest, I never felt like I put any study into kanji as a standalone subject. I always learned them in conjunction with any vocabulary I learned.
On May 24 2013 02:59 scintilliaSD wrote: To be honest, I never felt like I put any study into kanji as a standalone subject. I always learned them in conjunction with any vocabulary I learned.
Yeah I don't think it's a good idea either. Trying to remember the different readings for each Kanji sounds really hard. And then you have to learn vocabulary anyways. Kanji without readings seems entirely pointless. And Kanji meanings are pretty ambiguous as well.
On May 24 2013 02:59 scintilliaSD wrote: To be honest, I never felt like I put any study into kanji as a standalone subject. I always learned them in conjunction with any vocabulary I learned.
Yeah I don't think it's a good idea either. Trying to remember the different readings for each Kanji sounds really hard. And then you have to learn vocabulary anyways. Kanji without readings seems entirely pointless. And Kanji meanings are pretty ambiguous as well.
Yeah, for example...
When you first learn the vocabulary あたらしい, introduce it with its kanji counterpart 新しい but don't expect the students to memorize the kanji counterpart. Eventually, phase out あたらしい with 新しい (first with 振り仮名 and then without). That way, the student eventually can associate 新しい with あたらしい.
Similarly, when they learn しんぶん, introduce it with its kanji 新聞. Eventually, students will realize that 新 can be read as both あたら when in the context of 新しい as a 訓読み reading and しん in 音読み compounds.
On May 24 2013 02:59 scintilliaSD wrote: To be honest, I never felt like I put any study into kanji as a standalone subject. I always learned them in conjunction with any vocabulary I learned.
Yeah I don't think it's a good idea either. Trying to remember the different readings for each Kanji sounds really hard. And then you have to learn vocabulary anyways. Kanji without readings seems entirely pointless. And Kanji meanings are pretty ambiguous as well.
Yeah, for example...
When you first learn the vocabulary あたらしい, introduce it with its kanji counterpart 新しい but don't expect the students to memorize the kanji counterpart. Eventually, phase out あたらしい with 新しい (first with 振り仮名 and then without). That way, the student eventually can associate 新しい with あたらしい.
Similarly, when they learn しんぶん, introduce it with its kanji "新聞." Eventually, students will realize that 新 can be read as both あたら when in the context of 新しい as a 訓読み reading and しん in 音読み compounds.
While all of the above is true, I've found that most learners of Japanese don't actually learn kanji all that well by seeing them in compounds alone. Most Japanese learners with any decent proficiency knows both 新しい and 新聞 and can read them just fine, but many of them can probably not write the kanji from memory unless they have studied it in particular, and some of them might not even realize it's the same 新.
It's generally true that the more aspects of something you learn, the better, so while I think it's great to learn vocab and take kanji as they come, a great idea can be to not only focus on the words but also on the parts of the kanji. It's quite easy to see that 新 is made up of 立 (stand), 木 (tree) and 斤 (axe), make up some mnemonic like "The new thing is to stand on a tree with an axe" or something dumb like that, while at the same time focusing on learning some other words using it, like 最新. This will ingrain 新 and the meanings much harder in memory, making it far easier to write later.
On May 24 2013 02:59 scintilliaSD wrote: To be honest, I never felt like I put any study into kanji as a standalone subject. I always learned them in conjunction with any vocabulary I learned.
Yeah I don't think it's a good idea either. Trying to remember the different readings for each Kanji sounds really hard. And then you have to learn vocabulary anyways. Kanji without readings seems entirely pointless. And Kanji meanings are pretty ambiguous as well.
Yeah, for example...
When you first learn the vocabulary あたらしい, introduce it with its kanji counterpart 新しい but don't expect the students to memorize the kanji counterpart. Eventually, phase out あたらしい with 新しい (first with 振り仮名 and then without). That way, the student eventually can associate 新しい with あたらしい.
Similarly, when they learn しんぶん, introduce it with its kanji "新聞." Eventually, students will realize that 新 can be read as both あたら when in the context of 新しい as a 訓読み reading and しん in 音読み compounds.
While all of the above is true, I've found that most learners of Japanese don't actually learn kanji all that well by seeing them in compounds alone. Most Japanese learners with any decent proficiency knows both 新しい and 新聞 and can read them just fine, but many of them can probably not write the kanji from memory unless they have studied it in particular, and some of them might not even realize it's the same 新.
Kanji in general are becoming more and more passive knowledge (can read, can't write), even among Japanese people. You don't need to write actual Kanji with digital input devices after all.
I would just suggest to specifically learn (meaning + hiragana) -> (Kanji) as part of your vocabulary schedule. Easy to set up in Anki. Force yourself to write the Kanji each time. It won't be too hard if you already learnt it the other way round. When I do that, I definitely sometimes have the realization "oh, that's the same Kanji as in...", and from there on it's just easy usually.
On May 24 2013 02:59 scintilliaSD wrote: To be honest, I never felt like I put any study into kanji as a standalone subject. I always learned them in conjunction with any vocabulary I learned.
Yeah I don't think it's a good idea either. Trying to remember the different readings for each Kanji sounds really hard. And then you have to learn vocabulary anyways. Kanji without readings seems entirely pointless. And Kanji meanings are pretty ambiguous as well.
Yeah, for example...
When you first learn the vocabulary あたらしい, introduce it with its kanji counterpart 新しい but don't expect the students to memorize the kanji counterpart. Eventually, phase out あたらしい with 新しい (first with 振り仮名 and then without). That way, the student eventually can associate 新しい with あたらしい.
Similarly, when they learn しんぶん, introduce it with its kanji "新聞." Eventually, students will realize that 新 can be read as both あたら when in the context of 新しい as a 訓読み reading and しん in 音読み compounds.
While all of the above is true, I've found that most learners of Japanese don't actually learn kanji all that well by seeing them in compounds alone. Most Japanese learners with any decent proficiency knows both 新しい and 新聞 and can read them just fine, but many of them can probably not write the kanji from memory unless they have studied it in particular, and some of them might not even realize it's the same 新.
It's generally true that the more aspects of something you learn, the better, so while I think it's great to learn vocab and take kanji as they come, a great idea can be to not only focus on the words but also on the parts of the kanji. It's quite easy to see that 新 is made up of 立 (stand), 木 (tree) and 斤 (axe), make up some mnemonic like "The new thing is to stand on a tree with an axe" or something dumb like that, while at the same time focusing on learning some other words using it, like 最新. This will ingrain 新 and the meanings much harder in memory, making it far easier to write later.
Being able to write Kanji, while impressive, should be the last priority for any Japanese learner in my opinion. First, there's a high chance of error once you start to learn a decent amount of Kanji (Is it two strokes here, or one? Is it this radical or this similar one?). Second, the ability is not of that much practical use in Japan itself.
I agree that it does reinforce the meanings quite well, and I did practice writing Kanji for the longest time. I have since abandoned the practice, because the time you need to devote to get it right is much better spent on expanding your reading vocabulary alone.
Writing rare kanji is generally very hard even for natives. But, being able to write at least the 500-1000 most common is very important in some situations (especially if you study at a Japanese university or such, where a lot of hand writing is required). I would imagine it being far less important if you are working, however.
In most cases it's certainly not that important. Being able to read all the common kanji should be considered far more important. I am myself not that fond of using mnemonics to remember kanji, because of the amount of kanji. I did it through sheer practice using Anki, using the same method as spinesheath was talking about above.
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