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Breaking 3 way ties

Blogs > KillerDucky
Post a Reply
KillerDucky
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States498 Posts
April 26 2013 21:12 GMT
#1
Here is an alternative to doing a full round robin X times followed by pure drawing of lots. In this method, you draw lots first, and some players will get an advantage in the tiebreak from that. But at least after this element of luck, each player's fate is 100% in their own hands.

Two advance, one eliminated: Draw lots, then:
Game 1: A vs B
Game 2: C vs W1 (Winner advances)
Game 3: L1 vs L2 (Winner advances)
Loser of Game 3 is eliminated. Winner of Games 2 and 3 advance.

Odds of advancing assuming all players equal skill:
A - 62.5% (LW, WW, WLW)
B - 62.5% (LW, WW, WLW)
C - 75% (W, LW)

===================================

One advances, two eliminated: Draw lots, then:
Game 1: A vs B
Game 2: C vs L1
Game 3: W1 vs W2
Winner of Game 3 advances

Odds of advancing assuming all players equal skill:
A - 37.5% (WW, LWW)
B - 37.5% (WW, LWW)
C - 25% (WW)



*
MarineKingPrime Forever!
fabiano
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Brazil4644 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-26 22:12:52
April 26 2013 22:11 GMT
#2
How are you getting 3 way ties?

If you have a group of 4 players then using the ODT style is the fastest and fairest way to avoid such situation:

G1: A vs B
G2: C vs D

G3: Winner G1 vs Winner G2
G4: Loser G1 vs Loser G2

Winner of G3 advances.
Loser of G4 is eliminated.

G5: Loser G3 vs Winner G4

Winner of G5 advances.
Loser of G5 is eliminated.

In this case the only luck factor is the initial A, B, C, D spot sorting. After that, it is 100% on the hand of the players.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong though...
"When the geyser died, a probe came out" - SirJolt
KillerDucky
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States498 Posts
April 26 2013 22:22 GMT
#3
Of course using that style for 4 player groups avoids ties completely. This is just in response to the Dreamhack situation where they have full round robin groups and had an unbreakable tie. Dreamhack drew lots to break the tie, I'm suggesting this method instead.
MarineKingPrime Forever!
fabiano
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Brazil4644 Posts
April 26 2013 22:27 GMT
#4
Oh sorry..

I don't follow SC2, thought it was just some random blog about 3 way ties. Anyway, Dreamhack should use ODT style then, since it also avoids pointless games like that where Naniwa probe rushed vs someone...
"When the geyser died, a probe came out" - SirJolt
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
April 26 2013 22:39 GMT
#5
Yes this! Avoid having 3 way ties in the first place. I really like having groups over a huge bracket but the groups really should be done like this. Avoids pointless games and stupid coin flipping tiebreakers.
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
April 26 2013 22:52 GMT
#6
I think a cointoss is a perfect and fair solution.
TL+ Member
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
April 26 2013 23:26 GMT
#7
The GSL format is just a hidden coinflip, just take these 3 scenarios (based on actual results, but with games played in a GSL order instead of round robin order):

+ Show Spoiler [Scenario 1] +

YuGiOh > Strelok
Lucifron > Timestamp
Lucifron > YuGiOh
Strelok > Timestamp
Strelok > YuGiOh

Lucifron and Strelok advance


+ Show Spoiler [Scenario 2] +

YuGiOh > Timestamp
Strelok > Lucifron
YuGiOh > Strelok
Lucifron > Timestamp
Lucifron > Strelok

YuGiOh and Lucifron advance


+ Show Spoiler [Scenario 3] +

Strelok > Timestamp
Lucifron > YuGiOh
Strelok > Lucifron
YuGiOh > TimeStamp
YuGiOh > Lucifron

Strelok and YuGiOh advance.


All of the results in the scenarios are the actual results (if two players meet for the first time, the result is from the round robin group. if two players meet for the second time, the result is from the tiebreaker) and yet different players advance depending on the seeding. So GSL format hides the coinflip but doesn't get rid of it.
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