Similar to finding out you are gay or knowing something new about yourself, I want to know when you had the “change of heart” from a theist to an atheist. How did you manage to realize that you don't believe in stuff you were programmed, raised to or have been introduced to? When was the time you questioned your "faith" and you analysed the stuff you are to believe into.
It is funny to note that for my experience, it was because of a TV show that told me unconsciously to wake up. However, I did not automatically flipped; I think it was just a confirmation. I for one, is raised Catholic, born under the guidance of Catholic ceremonies and tradition. Conservative in nature, that’s the culture we used to be and is trying to be (before the internet ruled our lives). I studied in a Catholic school until I graduated college. My folks were not the religious types which I as well turned out to be. I always questioned stuff I "need" to do when we are forced in school like praying the rosary, kneeling down, and going to mass. I said to myself, if God is really that good then he would understand that my knee hurts while I kneel, why I can say a simple thank you instead of saying the whole damn rosary, when I can use an hour for more productive stuff than going to church. I for one am always a critique of how stuff needs to be done and will always think of better ways to do it and will wonder why are we doing it? What is the purpose?
Being catholic just made it worst since I got to be a teenager. Raging hormones and liking the opposite sex made me guilty every time I fapped. There was a time I like to fap a lot and I read it was just natural but the priest/ pastors would always preach about impure thoughts and stuff. Is premarital sex really bad? Is it really worst than stealing and killing? I thought God has better things to do than watch me fap and release secretions, my rainbows of joy. I became fond of science, finding facts and absolute truth. I became fascinated about how stuff works and theorize stuff. I enjoyed and I got entertained by science fiction, got to imagine the “what ifs”. It came to the point that the possibility of Aliens is far more viable than an imaginary being who made stuff in 7 days.
The realization that there were once dinosaurs, evolution and possible aliens are just too conflicting to what the "good old book" was saying. And I started to find facts and evidences only to realise the bible could be ridiculous sometimes. Like Santa or the unicorn, it could be weird sometimes. They say the book is perfect, guided by "God" but then they say "we are only human", we commit mistakes. "People" wrote the bible, therefore using logic, bible can be inaccurate or lost in translation.
Further and further I disapprove of what I come to believe until I realised the bullshit it was. I thought some intelligent person made religion to herd ignorant people to do stuff for them. It has been happening as I read through history. Crusades, purging and wars, just to name a few of those atrocities it caused. More people fought and died for this bullshit than I ever recall. As I wake up to reality, I told myself, I'm done with this crap.
As soon as I let go of religion, I felt free. I felt better, lighter inside and no guilt. I really think that there is no need for that, I am not a sheep. I have my own mind and I can think for myself. I am mature enough to know what is right or wrong. I don't need that to be "moral"; I just don't need to be an asshole. And best of all, I can fap without feeling bad about it.
I am curious to see what are your experiences and reactions as this is mostly a gaming website/forum and would probably not think or discuss this topic. More so to what lead you to have this similar realization that I went if you had one too. This is a fairly new change for me and I am glad I had to realize this.
I am curious to see what are your experiences and reactions as this is mostly a gaming website/forum and would probably not think or discuss this topic
actually, TL used to get tons of religion/atheism threads, but every single one devolved into shitfests hahaha...
but to share my experience: my parents are not religious, so i grew up without thinking much about religion. instead, they taught my brother and me values such as responsibility, respect, kindness, etc, without the need for someting like religion to support them. i really identified as an atheist some time during high school when i became more interested in evolutionary biology (and having met some students at my school who were pretty devout creationists). basically did a lot of studying, especially in biology, and a lot of richard dawkins' works.
I always have been an agnostic atheist, since my parents didn't indoctrinate me in to any religion (or against any). There is no evidence for any religion, and therefor no reason to believe in any of them.
However, an interesting question is how long it would take me to reject a religion I was raised in to. When you are a child, you are not intellectually honest, and you easily lie to yourself and skew information to avoid having to face unpleasant truths. Going against my parents wouldn't be easy, and I can only imagine the excuses I would make for my religions immoralities.
I always had a huge interest in science, math, physics and all this neat kind of stuff. When i was 14 or so, i decided that science was incompatible with religion and decided to become an atheist.
I then learned that it is not true at all, that the bible is not supposed to be a science book, but instead to convey a message, and that science and religion complement each other nicely. I learned that religion is not a set of rule, but instead a guide to help you make your own decision. So I went back to being a Christian.
It seems pretty weird when I think about it now, but I remember very well that during my early childhood I've been barely aware that religion even existed. When I finally became aware of it, I naturally assumed that like 99% people in the world would be atheist, but there are some people with weird beliefs and habits and that's fine.
It wasn't until mid-90s (and me being like 12-13) that I realized that I was the one in the minority.
But yeah, I was atheist long before I even heard of the term "atheist". I still feel uncomfortable describing myself as such, as I don't want to even categorize myself on some sort of a religious scale.
On April 22 2013 22:58 woreyour wrote: I am mature enough to know what is right or wrong. I don't need that to be "moral"; I just don't need to be an asshole. And best of all, I can fap without feeling bad about it.
100% of the people who say that they are mature enough to "know right from wrong" are just not mature enough to know that the distinction isn't always easy. You have a strange sense of what morality is - it is intended to be the set of rules which prevent a person from being "an asshole".
Consider that sociopaths also view their version of morality (whereby some people are just supposed to die) to be completely legitimate. Now, explain why your views are superior without using statements like "everyone knows..." and "well obviously...". This is where religion/morality comes in. It gives people a context in which to discuss right and wrong. Outside of religion, there is no good and evil, there is only legal and illegal.
On April 22 2013 22:58 woreyour wrote: I am mature enough to know what is right or wrong. I don't need that to be "moral"; I just don't need to be an asshole. And best of all, I can fap without feeling bad about it.
100% of the people who say that they are mature enough to "know right from wrong" are just not mature enough to know that the distinction isn't always easy. You have a strange sense of what morality is - it is intended to be the set of rules which prevent a person from being "an asshole".
Consider that sociopaths also view their version of morality (whereby some people are just supposed to die) to be completely legitimate. Now, explain why your views are superior without using statements like "everyone knows..." and "well obviously...". This is where religion/morality comes in. It gives people a context in which to discuss right and wrong. Outside of religion, there is no good and evil, there is only legal and illegal.
lolwut yes there is. you just said that that is where morality comes in.
On April 22 2013 22:58 woreyour wrote: I am mature enough to know what is right or wrong. I don't need that to be "moral"; I just don't need to be an asshole. And best of all, I can fap without feeling bad about it.
100% of the people who say that they are mature enough to "know right from wrong" are just not mature enough to know that the distinction isn't always easy. You have a strange sense of what morality is - it is intended to be the set of rules which prevent a person from being "an asshole".
Consider that sociopaths also view their version of morality (whereby some people are just supposed to die) to be completely legitimate. Now, explain why your views are superior without using statements like "everyone knows..." and "well obviously...". This is where religion/morality comes in. It gives people a context in which to discuss right and wrong. Outside of religion, there is no good and evil, there is only legal and illegal.
That is a logical fallacy. Just because a being who created us says that something is moral, does not make it moral. If god was real and he really did order and / or condone the genocide and rape and slavery that's in the bible, it does not mean that it would be moral. It would still be evil. Morality can never be defined by an authority, no matter who it is.
I don't know how moral the original poster is, but his morality can't be worse than that of catholicism.
I can't remember a time where I literally believed in god. It's a bit like santa claus, I never REALLY believed he existed, but I had a better suspension of disbelief as a kid so it was still fun to imagine.
I was raised with no particular religion. When I was eight or so, I began attending scripture. While it wasn't compulsory, you had to get a note from a parent in order to get out of it. So I heard these stories about God and such, and I was kinda skeptical. I remember two things I tried:
I asked my scripture teacher how she KNEW there was a god. She told me she'd get back to me, and wrote me a very nice and fairly long reply, all about the beauty of nature and of life, and how she couldn't help but see God's hand everywhere. This was convincing, but not convincing enough. So that day, on my way home from school, I prayed to God to show me a miracle: I asked him to set a bush on fire like he did for Moses in one of the stories we'd looked at in scripture. He did not. I became an atheist at that point.
On April 22 2013 22:58 woreyour wrote: I am mature enough to know what is right or wrong. I don't need that to be "moral"; I just don't need to be an asshole. And best of all, I can fap without feeling bad about it.
100% of the people who say that they are mature enough to "know right from wrong" are just not mature enough to know that the distinction isn't always easy. You have a strange sense of what morality is - it is intended to be the set of rules which prevent a person from being "an asshole".
Consider that sociopaths also view their version of morality (whereby some people are just supposed to die) to be completely legitimate. Now, explain why your views are superior without using statements like "everyone knows..." and "well obviously...". This is where religion/morality comes in. It gives people a context in which to discuss right and wrong. Outside of religion, there is no good and evil, there is only legal and illegal.
lolwut yes there is. you just said that that is where morality comes in.
Pardon me, I meant to say morality. His blog is decrying morality itself, not just religion. I did use religion and morality interchangeably in the sentence prior to that one.
On April 22 2013 22:58 woreyour wrote: I am mature enough to know what is right or wrong. I don't need that to be "moral"; I just don't need to be an asshole. And best of all, I can fap without feeling bad about it.
100% of the people who say that they are mature enough to "know right from wrong" are just not mature enough to know that the distinction isn't always easy. You have a strange sense of what morality is - it is intended to be the set of rules which prevent a person from being "an asshole".
Consider that sociopaths also view their version of morality (whereby some people are just supposed to die) to be completely legitimate. Now, explain why your views are superior without using statements like "everyone knows..." and "well obviously...". This is where religion/morality comes in. It gives people a context in which to discuss right and wrong. Outside of religion, there is no good and evil, there is only legal and illegal.
I can say for myself I am "mature" because I try to make it simple as for my concept of morality which is if you think it is bad for you, don't do it to other people. I try to ask myself, would I like it? Will I get offended? Most of the if I am unsure I can always just ask, properly that is. I really don't think there is a need for religion to discuss morality, we can utilize healty discussions, probably debates. Religion does not discuss morality, they tend to instill it, indoctrinate it.
Btw your post is insightful, and totally agree we are naturally ignorant.
Education and the internet is the cure to religion. It's getting harder and harder to remain ignorant when information is easily accessible on the internet, and the more educated a person is the easier it is for them to distinguish which piece of information is trustworthy.
On April 22 2013 22:58 woreyour wrote: I am mature enough to know what is right or wrong. I don't need that to be "moral"; I just don't need to be an asshole. And best of all, I can fap without feeling bad about it.
100% of the people who say that they are mature enough to "know right from wrong" are just not mature enough to know that the distinction isn't always easy. You have a strange sense of what morality is - it is intended to be the set of rules which prevent a person from being "an asshole".
Consider that sociopaths also view their version of morality (whereby some people are just supposed to die) to be completely legitimate. Now, explain why your views are superior without using statements like "everyone knows..." and "well obviously...". This is where religion/morality comes in. It gives people a context in which to discuss right and wrong. Outside of religion, there is no good and evil, there is only legal and illegal.
So do you believe slavery is morally acceptable, then?
The banning of slavery in most countries certainly wasn't a religiously motivated event. In fact, many people in the United States in particular used religion to defend slavery. That's not all that surprising, given what is actually contained in the Bible.
Human history shows that your assertion is just straight up wrong. Morality is based a lot on human knowledge and understanding both of the past and the current. I do not believe that people, even religious people, actually look toward religion for moral guidance. I think statements like "if it weren't for religion I'd probably be out there murdering people" are pretty fallacious because it doesn't hold up in reality.
All one needs to do to affirm this is to look at actual human history. Let's take some examples from American and European history, since we can probably relate to or exemplify some of these things.
Think about these things:
The numerous inquisitions throughout the middle ages. Let's focus on the Spanish Inquisition, since it's probably the most famous. The Spanish Inquisition was essentially intended to force Muslims and Jews to convert, or leave/die. The enforcement of Catholicism in Spain consisted of censorship, persecution, oppression, suppression, and torture of offenders: the nature of the punishable offenses could range from the verbal (blasphemy) to sexual (sodomy) to supernatural (witchcraft) among many many others. Thousands of people were affected over many years, many dying in the process. Do you consider this a good example of religious morals?
In the colonial period, did religion stop the American colonists from trampling over the natives, killing them, eradicating their peoples and their lands, and subjugating them? No. In fact, in many cases, religious leaders encouraged many practices we would consider today to be completely immoral. Many many people died in the interests of conversion and absolution/purification. At the time, it was considered absolutely the morally right thing to do: these people were being "saved" from an eternity in hell. And of course, if they didn't listen, the converters were doing a favor for everyone by killing the heathen unbelieving savages. Sounds pretty ridiculous, no?
Again, during the colonial period: do you recall the numerous witch trials and the results of Puritanism in New England? I can guarantee you that today, burning a teenage girl at the stake over mere religious hysteria would be outrageous. No one would stand for that.
There are many more examples from human history that I can find and display for you, some of which are happening right now. The simple fact is that religion is not and never has been a good moral compass. It's honestly actually one of the worst things you can use as a guide, given its track record. No other human societal institution has demonstrated as much propensity to subvert, oppress, control and hurt both the individual and the masses.
As to the subject of this blog, I don't actually remember when I became atheist. I was born in a Muslim family and grew up half-practicing, even reading the Koran till I was around 12 or 13. However I do know for a fact I never really believed in God or any sort of higher power. I started questioning why others believed probably in elementary school and I was pretty taken aback at the beliefs in Santa, God, the tooth fairy, and all sorts of other things at a very young age. By the time I was a freshman in high school I had spent lots of time on the internet reading about almost everything, and a lot of the time it was about logic and religion; two things I found in utter contradiction of each other.
just became old enough to realize that rational thought and religion don't mix at all, and I realized that a lot of the religious people i knew at church were huge shitheads.
EPT
