|
Hey guys what's up everyone I haven't made a blog in ages! This place has changed a lot I probably won't know who any of you are.
So anyways, with the fall of online poker I took it easy for a while, joined the air force, and now I am doing that which is ok. But I don't make much money and I want more more more! So I decided to take up online trading.
I started off by educating myself and playing around with demos a little bit. And I settled on doing binary options for now, which I am having a lot of fun with and frankly don't seem that difficult to beat though maybe I am running good to start off. I think having a professional poker background helps a lot in many ways.
Some people will argue that binary options aren't really trading, and I will agree with them.. but for intents and purposes it is easier to lump them in with the other types of tradings.
All of this is probably confusing for a lot of people but I didn't want to write a million pages explaining what online trading is and the different types so if you have questions just ask me.
I am wondering how many of you out there seriously trade online, and what do you do? Do any of you do it for a living? I could see myself doing this for a living one day, I do not want to stay in the air force forever.. It's ok but I don't want to make this too long term, I like independence. So anyways let's get to talking about this.
|
United States24342 Posts
I trade options, but not seriously. Honestly, I've never even heard about binary options before.
|
Don't know dick about trading but I'm about to be in the air force as well. Maybe you could blog about it, would be interesting. Hope things are going well for you.
|
Air force is great, my office is pretty laid back. I do finance. Any idea what job you are going to do?
|
I do what i suppose people think "daytrading" is for a living Though, even though my style of trading is as close as it gets to that, it's *nowhere near* what retail trading is
Trading as a retail investor/trader is 99.9% scam. The vast majority of products you will trade will have huge spreads/costs and be impossible for you (or anyone else) to trade profitably from
As an example, for every £1 in net profit i make, i've spent 50p to make it. This is considering i get the absolute lowest costs in the industry (eg, for an oil contract, i'll be paying somewhere between 125c to 45c a lot) Considering as a retail investor you might have to pay many, many, multiples of this, you can quickly see where the maths adds up.
As for binary options in particular, i do know ONE guy who works in a hedge fund who has some crazy algorithm that has an edge in binary options trading, but in general, the costs of options are *even more* extreme than normal futures trading.
pretty much all the guys i know who make money from options are basically market makers that have fancy ways of taking the bid/offer spread and are generally doing some kind of arbitrage
Hell, where i work,99% of the trading that goes around me is just spread arbitrage (feel free to ask if you're confused), which is impossible for a retail investor.
The only way to get these costs is to invest a large sum of your own money (something like 50k dollars is probably enough, depending on how margin heavy your strategy is) to buy a desk at a prop firm (which will cost you something like 3000 dollars a month) to get the whole setup with the right software and costs.
Feel free to ask questions though. For some reason it's a hidden world and all the perceived entries and ways in are generally fakes/scams, especially if you're trying to do anything on the buyside
|
On April 01 2013 08:44 travis wrote: Air force is great, my office is pretty laid back. I do finance. Any idea what job you are going to do?
whaaat. i thought you went to dli.
|
From what I can see, binary options seems to be really scammy. It's basically simple gambling through small companies situated outside of the US, masquerading as investment. It's apparently common that it's very hard to withdraw money... and if you make a lot, you simply don't get it. There's no regulatory agencies or anything.
|
On April 01 2013 09:18 Nitrogen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 08:44 travis wrote: Air force is great, my office is pretty laid back. I do finance. Any idea what job you are going to do? whaaat. i thought you went to dli.
no I didn't make top secret security clearance lulz
On April 01 2013 09:27 Tobberoth wrote: From what I can see, binary options seems to be really scammy. It's basically simple gambling through small companies situated outside of the US, masquerading as investment. It's apparently common that it's very hard to withdraw money... and if you make a lot, you simply don't get it. There's no regulatory agencies or anything.
sounds like you did some research. but just because the majority of people say something doesn't mean it's true. most people I talked to said the same stuff about poker.
binary options are not investing it's true, but that doesn't mean they are a scam. it is gaming, it is gambling like poker, but if you know what you are doing there are plenty of edges.
as for the sites, I did research before depositing. I trade on nadex at the moment, which is U.S. regulated, so really it's as "safe" as you are going to get.
|
On April 01 2013 09:41 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 09:18 Nitrogen wrote:On April 01 2013 08:44 travis wrote: Air force is great, my office is pretty laid back. I do finance. Any idea what job you are going to do? whaaat. i thought you went to dli. no I didn't make top secret security clearance lulz
oh wow that sucks. too many drugs?
|
On April 01 2013 09:07 BrTarolg wrote: I do what i suppose people think "daytrading" is for a living Though, even though my style of trading is as close as it gets to that, it's *nowhere near* what retail trading is
Trading as a retail investor/trader is 99.9% scam. The vast majority of products you will trade will have huge spreads/costs and be impossible for you (or anyone else) to trade profitably from
As an example, for every £1 in net profit i make, i've spent 50p to make it. This is considering i get the absolute lowest costs in the industry (eg, for an oil contract, i'll be paying somewhere between 125c to 45c a lot) Considering as a retail investor you might have to pay many, many, multiples of this, you can quickly see where the maths adds up.
As for binary options in particular, i do know ONE guy who works in a hedge fund who has some crazy algorithm that has an edge in binary options trading, but in general, the costs of options are *even more* extreme than normal futures trading.
pretty much all the guys i know who make money from options are basically market makers that have fancy ways of taking the bid/offer spread and are generally doing some kind of arbitrage
Hell, where i work,99% of the trading that goes around me is just spread arbitrage (feel free to ask if you're confused), which is impossible for a retail investor.
The only way to get these costs is to invest a large sum of your own money (something like 50k dollars is probably enough, depending on how margin heavy your strategy is) to buy a desk at a prop firm (which will cost you something like 3000 dollars a month) to get the whole setup with the right software and costs.
Feel free to ask questions though. For some reason it's a hidden world and all the perceived entries and ways in are generally fakes/scams, especially if you're trying to do anything on the buyside
I don't see how the costs/fees for binary options are too high. what kind of win rates on bets do you think are attainable? Why are you making it sound like it's so much harder to win than it seems to me.
On April 01 2013 09:47 Nitrogen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 09:41 travis wrote:On April 01 2013 09:18 Nitrogen wrote:On April 01 2013 08:44 travis wrote: Air force is great, my office is pretty laid back. I do finance. Any idea what job you are going to do? whaaat. i thought you went to dli. no I didn't make top secret security clearance lulz oh wow that sucks. too many drugs?
yep. it's probably a blessing in disguise anyways. the school for it is very unpleasant and difficult from what I hear, and I don't even want to stay in for my full 6 year enlistment anyways.
|
On April 01 2013 09:53 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 09:47 Nitrogen wrote:On April 01 2013 09:41 travis wrote:On April 01 2013 09:18 Nitrogen wrote:On April 01 2013 08:44 travis wrote: Air force is great, my office is pretty laid back. I do finance. Any idea what job you are going to do? whaaat. i thought you went to dli. no I didn't make top secret security clearance lulz oh wow that sucks. too many drugs? yep. it's probably a blessing in disguise anyways. the school for it is very unpleasant and difficult from what I hear, and I don't even want to stay in for my full 6 year enlistment anyways.
haha, it's not too bad, but it's definitely shittier for the air force. they have a bunch of rules that make no sense and make their lives shitty. i fortunately never had to deal with that though (army). the school itself isn't bad. how are you gonna get out before your contract is up?
|
I don't know, I am just assuming I probably can with all the current and upcoming budget cuts. I've gotten emails about programs to get out but I was always too busy to actually read them lol. Besides I am not ready to get out just quite yet.
|
Travis, you may be a high probability target for brainwashing. Go read Luckyfool's blog and become aware of your unawareness.
|
On April 01 2013 10:04 travis wrote: I don't know, I am just assuming I probably can with all the current and upcoming budget cuts. I've gotten emails about programs to get out but I was always too busy to actually read them lol. Besides I am not ready to get out just quite yet.
wow i didn't realize there were programs to get out. seems like it makes more sense than kicking people out, just let the people who want to get out get out. dunno if the army has that though, makes too much sense.
|
On April 01 2013 10:48 husniack wrote: Travis, you may be a high probability target for brainwashing. Go read Luckyfool's blog and become aware of your unawareness.
i went to go read it and then got bored like 3 sentences in
also, wtf are you talking about. lol
|
Did some speculation on german bluechip stocks during spring last year, earned around 150 € in the process of 3-4 months after having losses, initially, then I had to pull out all money from stocks cause of family shit, just before stocks started rising to this pretty sick point, sigh. Was more of a testrun to see how it is though.
Never tried out options but I think they're not much different from playing poker (not gonna touch them without reading about them), as for arbitrage, I guess futures could be seen as such, kinda.
Lessons learned so far: Never, ever trust whatever advice a bank gives to you (got some advice that turned out super shitty, didn't follow most of that luckily).
Edit: Trading is mostly automated nowadays and happens super quickly. I have actually no idea which groups use such programs the most.
|
On April 01 2013 09:53 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 09:07 BrTarolg wrote: I do what i suppose people think "daytrading" is for a living Though, even though my style of trading is as close as it gets to that, it's *nowhere near* what retail trading is
Trading as a retail investor/trader is 99.9% scam. The vast majority of products you will trade will have huge spreads/costs and be impossible for you (or anyone else) to trade profitably from
As an example, for every £1 in net profit i make, i've spent 50p to make it. This is considering i get the absolute lowest costs in the industry (eg, for an oil contract, i'll be paying somewhere between 125c to 45c a lot) Considering as a retail investor you might have to pay many, many, multiples of this, you can quickly see where the maths adds up.
As for binary options in particular, i do know ONE guy who works in a hedge fund who has some crazy algorithm that has an edge in binary options trading, but in general, the costs of options are *even more* extreme than normal futures trading.
pretty much all the guys i know who make money from options are basically market makers that have fancy ways of taking the bid/offer spread and are generally doing some kind of arbitrage
Hell, where i work,99% of the trading that goes around me is just spread arbitrage (feel free to ask if you're confused), which is impossible for a retail investor.
The only way to get these costs is to invest a large sum of your own money (something like 50k dollars is probably enough, depending on how margin heavy your strategy is) to buy a desk at a prop firm (which will cost you something like 3000 dollars a month) to get the whole setup with the right software and costs.
Feel free to ask questions though. For some reason it's a hidden world and all the perceived entries and ways in are generally fakes/scams, especially if you're trying to do anything on the buyside I don't see how the costs/fees for binary options are too high. what kind of win rates on bets do you think are attainable? Why are you making it sound like it's so much harder to win than it seems to me.
The best way i can describe it is imagine playing poker with 5x rake or something crazy like that. It may seem like you can win (and certainly, you can definitely be better than the players on the table, whom you can directly observe), but as you know, you will have a very, very tough time beating a rake that high
The main issue with trading is that it is very, very difficult to quantify your edge. You need a long track record that takes account for variance and sharpe ratio. Also you can't say after every trade whether you know you made a +EV decision or not. Unlike an all-in situation where you get to see the cards afterwards and assign probabilities and EV to each player, in trading all you get to see is the market movement, and you have no way of knowing whether there was any probability that it goes in your favour or not
So given this, one has to think "well hot damn, how do you make money from trading?" - that's a very good question. So you have to think outside the box a little bit and try to wonder who makes money
Well for a start in poker, the casino makes money because they take rake out of the pot. And that is exactly what the vast majority of options traders do - they "make the market" or act as the house and offer you options to trade with. They get the "good price" when you trade with them, but of course you get the choice. If you assume that the market is a truly random walk, then this is in effectiveness, betting on red or black with roulette, where the market maker gives you the choice to bet on red or black (and charges an extra bit - the green 0), knowing that the market is random enough you have no way of effectively predicting red or black on the next roll of the market. This is essentially part of what they call "statistical arbitrage strategy" - using pricing models they can make sure that the prices that they set are always outside of the neutral EV price, so that no matter which way you hit them (buy or sell) they will have made a +EV decision.
Now of course, markets ARNT 100% random walk - but a market maker can hedge his position very quickly after you take the bet with him, so he "locks in" that edge, and then no longer cares whether he makes or loses on the original bet (the simplest form is known as delta hedging, but options guys do all sorts of crazy shit i dont know about)
So far, you can safely assume that being the house is a fairly profitable way of trading. And this is indeed, how all investment banks make money from trading (they act as the house) - and how your broker/platform makes money from trading
---
Without having seen trading ladders, it is very difficult to describe prop trading to you (and the rest of the buyside industry)
In the world of prop trading (or what you might imagine as intra-day trading) they still face a similar problem, so they actually have to find some kind of market edge. Generally these guys boil it down into the simplest edge possible, so that they can fine tune it and roll it over again and again. Its usually something simple enough they can explain it in one sentence
For example "when market data comes out, the market moves, so i'm fast enough to buy/sell before everyone else" - These guys actually exist, and yes, they make huge amounts of money. There used to be locals who would sit there with huge clips (thousands of lots) on markets that are heavily speculated and liquid (bund, SNP mini etc.) and just wait all day for market moving news, and they would press the button, make a quick 10-100k and then wait another month at their computer for the next opportunity. Unfortunately these opportunities have become thinner and thinner with the rise of algorithms, but you can see what i mean
---
And if you're wondering what i do, i sit on the bid and offer of extremely illiquid products that nobody except a few physical oil traders care about, and i wait and wait and wait until they hit my bid or offer Essentially, i'm "market making", but i'm just doing it on the buyside.
Once i get hit, i hedge it up quickly to "lock in" that profit and then try and get out for a really small profit (usually 2-3 ticks)
That is, 2-3 ticks over the course of 2-3 weeks
|
I do econophysics w/ stocks. I make about a 3% profit most months, but it's not enough for me to live off of.
|
Trading is very interesting stuff, how does one get started
Nymphaceae told me about once upon a time but i kind of forgot
|
United States24342 Posts
You start by losing lots of money.
In all seriousness don't trust what you hear online from people you barely know about trading... stick to people you know and trust in real life... and even then be cautious.
|
I don't think i would ever do trading. But its just interesting to learn about
|
On April 07 2013 14:20 MysteryMeat1 wrote: I don't think i would ever do trading. But its just interesting to learn about
If you ever do try trading, don't tell anyone about it. Be sure to keep it a big secret. Trading is very psychological on your part, as well as the people around you.
|
On April 07 2013 11:02 Nymphaceae wrote: I do econophysics w/ stocks. I make about a 3% profit most months, but it's not enough for me to live off of.
Seriously? 3 percent profit a month? Could you link me to some good econophysics study books?
|
United States24342 Posts
On April 07 2013 23:29 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 11:02 Nymphaceae wrote: I do econophysics w/ stocks. I make about a 3% profit most months, but it's not enough for me to live off of. Seriously? 3 percent profit a month? Could you link me to some good econophysics study books? There is a bit of a flaw in what he's saying. If he's making 3% per month he will rapidly become able to live off of it, but there is no indication of this. I don't trust it.
|
On April 07 2013 23:31 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 23:29 Recognizable wrote:On April 07 2013 11:02 Nymphaceae wrote: I do econophysics w/ stocks. I make about a 3% profit most months, but it's not enough for me to live off of. Seriously? 3 percent profit a month? Could you link me to some good econophysics study books? There is a bit of a flaw in what he's saying. If he's making 3% per month he will rapidly become able to live off of it, but there is no indication of this. I don't trust it.
I have a feeling you're way better than me. I went to morgan keegan to apply for a job 2 years ago, and the president of that branch thought my trading strategy sounded ridiculous. When I still walk in there, he still looks at me and mocks me for my strategy.
I'm not sure if the reason why I'm doing good is because I have a low amount of cash that I'm trading ($3000), because the guy at morgan keegan says that he'd never be able to sell my idea. I told him that he wouldn't have to sell the idea, he'd just have to sell the companies that I like.
He told me, well physics doesn't do much. What are you going to say, when the stars and the moon don't align right, and you took a loss for that month? How are you going to explain that to our clients? I told him, that I wouldn't have to, that would be his job.
He asked me how I would ever be able to apply something like that, and I showed him my trades over 3 months, and he said those don't look like good trades. Then he started to show me his stock picks, but I don't think I'm supposed to say what they're pushing, because the papers said confidential on them. :\
For the most part, I just end up looking at commodities, and currencies, and then guess whether it will be up or down a particular day of the month. Then I look at stocks in strong sectors, and try to play that. The equations I use are probably very similar to chart analytics. I mean they come from from quantum mechanics, which is basically statistics/probability when applied to those charts.
|
On April 07 2013 22:06 Nymphaceae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 14:20 MysteryMeat1 wrote: I don't think i would ever do trading. But its just interesting to learn about If you ever do try trading, don't tell anyone about it. Be sure to keep it a big secret. Trading is very psychological on your part, as well as the people around you.
duly noted. Good luck on your trading, and thank you for keeping me occupied on a 10 hour roadtrip during the summer
As i have no spare cash, where does one look at trading, is their a website or something that you visit?
|
Here is my couple cents on trading. I consider myself to be a stockholder/investor that observes macro-economic climates and makes the best of them for myself.
Of course, words are simply words until I show my e-penis to up the credibility of my post. So my stock portfolio consists of equity from companies traded on major stock exchanges around the world. Currently I have 3 stocks in my portfolio.
Alcatel and Lucent has gone up 36% since I bought it in the summer. My favorite stock right now, Banco Santander, is up about 12.5% since I bought it over the summer as well. Unfortunately because of the cyprus disaster, Banco santander's stock, along with a lot of other european stocks, has been bleeding red lately. My banco stock was pushing 45% a couple weeks ago before deflating heavily lol
I also made 8% off of Daimler AG and 50% off of NRG when I cashed those stocks out
I have learned from my personal experiences that you can be fairly successful with stocks if you can understand the macroeconomic climate of the market that you are gonna invest in. For example, Although my Banco Santander stock is bleeding, I know that it has footholds in developing markets in latin america, and that only about 50% of its company is involved in europe. That means that on a broader scale, after the cyprus crysis starts to settle, banco santander should bounce back up.
It is absolutely important to have a game plan before you invest your money. If you start to see your stock bleed 10% one day, will you have the nerves to stay calm and to rationally figure out what is happening? You can't doubt yourself AT ALL if you decide to get into the stock market, but you can't be clouded with arrogance either, its all about being a smart person.
Also with daytrading, I think it's easier to capitalize on short term disasters, where companies become undervalued temporarily, and then to reap the rewards when they inevitably bounce back. Publicly traded companies are required to post annual financial reports to the public. Looking at that should let you know the strength of the company.
Anyways, I don't really mess around with daytrading. What I use stocks for is to keep my money in equity rather than in a bank account. That way, all I have to do is beat my interest rate of less then 1% and an inflation rate of about 2%, so really I have to make more then 3% on my stocks to benefit more than if I let the money sit in a bank account.
|
On April 08 2013 23:23 WalkinDead wrote: Here is my couple cents on trading. I consider myself to be a stockholder/investor that observes macro-economic climates and makes the best of them for myself.
Of course, words are simply words until I show my e-penis to up the credibility of my post. So my stock portfolio consists of equity from companies traded on major stock exchanges around the world. Currently I have 3 stocks in my portfolio.
Alcatel and Lucent has gone up 36% since I bought it in the summer. My favorite stock right now, Banco Santander, is up about 12.5% since I bought it over the summer as well. Unfortunately because of the cyprus disaster, Banco santander's stock, along with a lot of other european stocks, has been bleeding red lately. My banco stock was pushing 45% a couple weeks ago before deflating heavily lol
I also made 8% off of Daimler AG and 50% off of NRG when I cashed those stocks out
I have learned from my personal experiences that you can be fairly successful with stocks if you can understand the macroeconomic climate of the market that you are gonna invest in. For example, Although my Banco Santander stock is bleeding, I know that it has footholds in developing markets in latin america, and that only about 50% of its company is involved in europe. That means that on a broader scale, after the cyprus crysis starts to settle, banco santander should bounce back up.
It is absolutely important to have a game plan before you invest your money. If you start to see your stock bleed 10% one day, will you have the nerves to stay calm and to rationally figure out what is happening? You can't doubt yourself AT ALL if you decide to get into the stock market, but you can't be clouded with arrogance either, its all about being a smart person.
Also with daytrading, I think it's easier to capitalize on short term disasters, where companies become undervalued temporarily, and then to reap the rewards when they inevitably bounce back. Publicly traded companies are required to post annual financial reports to the public. Looking at that should let you know the strength of the company.
Anyways, I don't really mess around with daytrading. What I use stocks for is to keep my money in equity rather than in a bank account. That way, all I have to do is beat my interest rate of less then 1% and an inflation rate of about 2%, so really I have to make more then 3% on my stocks to benefit more than if I let the money sit in a bank account.
So, you have never had a loss on a stock?
|
On April 09 2013 00:32 Nymphaceae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 23:23 WalkinDead wrote: Here is my couple cents on trading. I consider myself to be a stockholder/investor that observes macro-economic climates and makes the best of them for myself.
Of course, words are simply words until I show my e-penis to up the credibility of my post. So my stock portfolio consists of equity from companies traded on major stock exchanges around the world. Currently I have 3 stocks in my portfolio.
Alcatel and Lucent has gone up 36% since I bought it in the summer. My favorite stock right now, Banco Santander, is up about 12.5% since I bought it over the summer as well. Unfortunately because of the cyprus disaster, Banco santander's stock, along with a lot of other european stocks, has been bleeding red lately. My banco stock was pushing 45% a couple weeks ago before deflating heavily lol
I also made 8% off of Daimler AG and 50% off of NRG when I cashed those stocks out
I have learned from my personal experiences that you can be fairly successful with stocks if you can understand the macroeconomic climate of the market that you are gonna invest in. For example, Although my Banco Santander stock is bleeding, I know that it has footholds in developing markets in latin america, and that only about 50% of its company is involved in europe. That means that on a broader scale, after the cyprus crysis starts to settle, banco santander should bounce back up.
It is absolutely important to have a game plan before you invest your money. If you start to see your stock bleed 10% one day, will you have the nerves to stay calm and to rationally figure out what is happening? You can't doubt yourself AT ALL if you decide to get into the stock market, but you can't be clouded with arrogance either, its all about being a smart person.
Also with daytrading, I think it's easier to capitalize on short term disasters, where companies become undervalued temporarily, and then to reap the rewards when they inevitably bounce back. Publicly traded companies are required to post annual financial reports to the public. Looking at that should let you know the strength of the company.
Anyways, I don't really mess around with daytrading. What I use stocks for is to keep my money in equity rather than in a bank account. That way, all I have to do is beat my interest rate of less then 1% and an inflation rate of about 2%, so really I have to make more then 3% on my stocks to benefit more than if I let the money sit in a bank account.
So, you have never had a loss on a stock? I never have thought about it that way but...ya I guess
|
United States24342 Posts
I would be cautious taking the advice of investors who have not learned from mistakes yet.
|
On April 09 2013 05:21 micronesia wrote: I would be cautious taking the advice of investors who have not learned from mistakes yet. Most of my learning has come from my mistakes. These are personal experiences only built up through experience and time. There really is no shortcut for learning other than experience and time.
|
On April 09 2013 05:21 micronesia wrote: I would be cautious taking the advice of investors who have not learned from mistakes yet. Sounds like a cyberpimp or some one that's new to me. I wrote a blog about that a while back.
|
On April 09 2013 07:35 Nymphaceae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 05:21 micronesia wrote: I would be cautious taking the advice of investors who have not learned from mistakes yet. Sounds like a cyberpimp or some one that's new to me. I wrote a blog about that a while back.
lol that series... but how does one go about reading up on this kind of stuff? does anyone reccommend a book?
|
United States24342 Posts
I recommend you read Margin of Safety by Klarman. It is very difficult to get a physical copy, though.
|
-A paper trading site just for stocks for newbs http://www.howthemarketworks.com/
If you want to play more volatile stocks, especially the penny stocks w/in the biotech sector. If you do play pennies, never ever ever ever trade one that is .0001 cents thinking that it will go up to .0002. There's not enough volume in these stocks the majority of the time, so it's a great way to throw your money away. http://www.fiercebiotech.com/ http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/search
-Foreign exchange trading (Forex) http://www.forexfactory.com/ This site has a lot of strategies^ They work for high volume stocks as well. http://www.babypips.com/ very newb friendly^ If you do try doing forex, understand that most of the forex practice accounts are highly leveraged, and are there to try to pimp the newbs out. People often go for 1 day-week thinking it's easy, and then get a real account, in which they go 500:1 or something ridiculous like that, and lose everything in a second. On the other hand, the forex practice programs are probably the best ones out there.
-This site is great for basic chart analysis, if you learn how to search around in it. I wouldn't recommend paying for it. http://www.finviz.com/futures.ashx
This site is good for dividends imo. Becareful here though. http://www.dividend.com/
|
woah thanks alot. I'll probably just read them over the next few weeks. I find this stuff interesting
|
On April 09 2013 07:42 micronesia wrote: I recommend you read Margin of Safety by Klarman. It is very difficult to get a physical copy, though. The price tag on the physical copy is downright ridiculous given that it's free online.
|
United States24342 Posts
On April 09 2013 08:23 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 07:42 micronesia wrote: I recommend you read Margin of Safety by Klarman. It is very difficult to get a physical copy, though. The price tag on the physical copy is downright ridiculous given that it's free online. Well there are very few copies of it and many people want to collect it, I guess. Yeah I recall it being easy to 'find' but it isn't exactly offered by the copyright holders.
|
On April 09 2013 07:57 MysteryMeat1 wrote: woah thanks alot. I'll probably just read them over the next few weeks. I find this stuff interesting
It's a lot of reading, but I found the things to be really interesting trying to understand it and then apply it to other places. Also I would like to recommend trying to find something about "trading by the stars." It's actually is interesting, as long as you don't get too into the Ms. Cleo kind of stuff.
|
On April 09 2013 08:24 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 08:23 babylon wrote:On April 09 2013 07:42 micronesia wrote: I recommend you read Margin of Safety by Klarman. It is very difficult to get a physical copy, though. The price tag on the physical copy is downright ridiculous given that it's free online. Well there are very few copies of it and many people want to collect it, I guess. Yeah I recall it being easy to 'find' but it isn't exactly offered by the copyright holders. Oh, the underground pdf library, how I love thee.
Or not so underground in the case of this book.
|
On April 09 2013 08:25 Nymphaceae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 07:57 MysteryMeat1 wrote: woah thanks alot. I'll probably just read them over the next few weeks. I find this stuff interesting It's a lot of reading, but I found the things to be really interesting trying to understand it and then apply it to other places. Also I would like to recommend trying to find something about "trading by the stars." It's actually is interesting, as long as you don't get too into the Ms. Cleo kind of stuff.
I'm not finding anything. But I'll shoot you a pm in a few weeks after i get done reading everything else if I still can't find it
|
On April 09 2013 08:42 MysteryMeat1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 08:25 Nymphaceae wrote:On April 09 2013 07:57 MysteryMeat1 wrote: woah thanks alot. I'll probably just read them over the next few weeks. I find this stuff interesting It's a lot of reading, but I found the things to be really interesting trying to understand it and then apply it to other places. Also I would like to recommend trying to find something about "trading by the stars." It's actually is interesting, as long as you don't get too into the Ms. Cleo kind of stuff. I'm not finding anything. But I'll shoot you a pm in a few weeks after i get done reading everything else if I still can't find it
I mean just look up the astrology trading things. Sure they seem really bs, but everyone wants to make their trades a few percentages less risky. I can't remember who it was, but there was a big name trader who said something like, if you want to be a millionair, then trade, but if you want to be a billionair keep an astrologist by your side. I know this is miss quoted, but it's close enough.
I think for the most part, it's done by people with fairly good chart analytical skills, in which they make up BS things about different signs, to try to sell their trading secrets. "If you're a leo, then you're affinity for courage is stronk! You should buy the riskiest stocks you can find, and women will arrive waiting for you at the playground!!! XXX XOXO <3"
|
On April 09 2013 09:43 Nymphaceae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 08:42 MysteryMeat1 wrote:On April 09 2013 08:25 Nymphaceae wrote:On April 09 2013 07:57 MysteryMeat1 wrote: woah thanks alot. I'll probably just read them over the next few weeks. I find this stuff interesting It's a lot of reading, but I found the things to be really interesting trying to understand it and then apply it to other places. Also I would like to recommend trying to find something about "trading by the stars." It's actually is interesting, as long as you don't get too into the Ms. Cleo kind of stuff. I'm not finding anything. But I'll shoot you a pm in a few weeks after i get done reading everything else if I still can't find it I mean just look up the astrology trading things. Sure they seem really bs, but everyone wants to make their trades a few percentages less risky. I can't remember who it was, but there was a big name trader who said something like, if you want to be a millionair, then trade, but if you want to be a billionair keep an astrologist by your side. I know this is miss quoted, but it's close enough. I think for the most part, it's done by people with fairly good chart analytical skills, in which they make up BS things about different signs, to try to sell their trading secrets. "If you're a leo, then you're affinity for courage is stronk! You should buy the riskiest stocks you can find, and women will arrive waiting for you at the playground!!! XXX XOXO <3"
Too bad im not a leo T.T i want women waiting for me at the playground.
but that makes more sense
|
|
I mean just look up the astrology trading things. Sure they seem really bs, but everyone wants to make their trades a few percentages less risky. I can't remember who it was, but there was a big name trader who said something like, if you want to be a millionair, then trade, but if you want to be a billionair keep an astrologist by your side. I know this is miss quoted, but it's close enough.
I think for the most part, it's done by people with fairly good chart analytical skills, in which they make up BS things about different signs, to try to sell their trading secrets. "If you're a leo, then you're affinity for courage is stronk! You should buy the riskiest stocks you can find, and women will arrive waiting for you at the playground!!! XXX XOXO <3"
Wait wat. People actually use astrology as a guidance for trading? Well, I guess people using astrology as a guidance for anything is crazy.
|
I've always wondered whether or not technical or chart trading actually works.... used in conjunction with top down fundamentals analysis i mean
|
On May 29 2013 01:15 BlindKill wrote: I've always wondered whether or not technical or chart trading actually works.... used in conjunction with top down fundamentals analysis i mean I use top down fundamental analysts in contrast to the global macroeconomic trends (NA, EU, and ASIA)
|
Imo classical chart analysis like candle stick or trend lines,and using indicators do not work, nor do all the other weird theorys like eliot wave , cycle analysis or even astrology. Though they all can help you to form your own vision if you know how to interpret them. It makes sense also that it does not work, there is real monney to be made here and if there was a system that generates a profit consitently it would be arbitraged away (collapse under its own succes) verry fast. There are thousends of highly educated (and paid) people and algorithms looking for such paterns every day and nothing will escape them.The best way to make monney with a trading system is selling the system to other people. There is a contest atm in the netherlands for trading wich has a few celebrity analist competing, some of them work at a bank and the odd thing is that they all perform pretty badly in this trading contest (though that might be due to bad luck i have to be honest and this is just a small time frame). All of them but one is at a loss and the biggest loss is made by the "turbo expert" from RBS (royal bank of scotland) who has -18% result (after beeing -30% earlier). This should be quiet an eye opener to that it is verry difficult to realiable predict the market. Am not saying there analysis are useless, they definatly are not but they are not to reliable.
In the end fundamentals determine the trend and hedgefunds, banks and pension funds who make the trend use fundamental analysis, i think fundamental analysis for private investors is verry difficult though as imo they can never compete with the hunderds of analists working for thoose institutions and who have acces to way more and also more reliable information , for example direct acces to companys ceo,s to get information wich you can not find in the annual report or on the internet.
For trading its best to be a bit stupid tbh, the smarter you are the more your intelect will hinder you.
|
On May 29 2013 03:18 Rassy wrote: Imo classical chart analysis like candle stick or trend lines,and using indicators do not work, nor do all the other weird theorys like eliot wave , cycle analysis or even astrology. Though they all can help you to form your own vision if you know how to interpret them. It makes sense also that it does not work, there is real monney to be made here and if there was a system that generates a profit consitently it would be arbitraged away (collapse under its own succes) verry fast. There are thousends of highly educated (and paid) people and algorithms looking for such paterns every day and nothing will escape them.The best way to make monney with a trading system is selling the system to other people. There is a contest atm in the netherlands for trading wich has a few celebrity analist competing, some of them work at a bank and the odd thing is that they all perform pretty badly in this trading contest (though that might be due to bad luck i have to be honest and this is just a small time frame). All of them but one is at a loss and the biggest loss is made by the "turbo expert" from RBS (royal bank of scotland) who has -18% result (after beeing -30% earlier). This should be quiet an eye opener to that it is verry difficult to realiable predict the market. Am not saying there analysis are useless, they definatly are not but they are not to reliable.
In the end fundamentals determine the trend and hedgefunds, banks and pension funds who make the trend use fundamental analysis, i think fundamental analysis for private investors is verry difficult though as imo they can never compete with the hunderds of analists working for thoose institutions and who have acces to way more and also more reliable information , for example direct acces to companys ceo,s to get information wich you can not find in the annual report or on the internet.
For trading its best to be a bit stupid tbh, the smarter you are the more your intelect will hinder you.
Great post, completely agree. Unless you have some highly sophisticated algorithm combining all the knowledge we have about the markets with the sickest internet speed, or unless you have just done research into market behaviour and found an inneficiency you could exploit. You won't get far.
|
|
|
|
|